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PvP/WvW Skill Split Release


Gaile Gray.6029

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@"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:We'll probably look at some of them to see if they can go game-wide. Our first focus for this release was on splits only. But as we revise the list, a few old splits and maybe some new ones might get changed to game-wide.

That's always a good thing. Most skill splits are fair, but too many of them can result in the game being too cumbersome for newcomers. This is mainly a concern when certain skills are actually better in PvP than in PvE.

Example: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mending

Most people don't really care about mending, but it is a good poster child for a split skill that doesn't seem to have a realistic reason to be split. There is not a single meta build ( PvE or PvP ) that even uses it, so the split only serves to cause confusion among new players.

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I'm seriously astonished that you involve us for the first time. I really appreciate this <3I think it sounds quite interesting but I am not sure if scourge could use more of a tone down ( you didn't adress the perma weakness upkeep the necro can have when traited rightgranted trough his shrouds), also the druid seems to be still too high. But as we can't test it it's hard to tell just by percentage numbers.

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Can we get some damage buffs to longbow on dh, healing coefficient buffs on tempest auras to help it compete with fb and increase in healing power coefficients for ventari too? we need more viable support specs so we don't have to only rely on fb.

also, might be a good idea to lower shatter damage on mesmer too. and lower damage from some phantasms (gs, downstate, for example).

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I spend most of my time in GW2 in WvW on a holosmith. From that perspective, these proposed changes will destroy a profession that already only has value in roaming and small-scale. Changing Eclipse to require hitting a target with Corona Burst to grant the stability is a flawed design. Holosmith has no other source of stability and will become fodder for anything with ranged crowd control or superior mobility. Changing the might generated by Corona Burst without any adjustment to the heat generated so a holosmith gets half the might for the exact same amount of heat is not a change I understand either. Holosmith by design needs boons to be viable, so I'm not sure why making it more difficult to get those boons in a meta where they're already being stripped or corrupted is the way to go.

Lowering the power coefficients on some of the photon forge skills is a less worrisome change, but judging from the size of the cuts it looks like holosmith is seen as the hardest hitting power profession in WvW. It's not.

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The changes overall seem interesting; some heavy nerfs across the board, but nearly all classes getting hit making it even, so perhaps this may prolong fights (in WvW anyway) instead of being trained over in a matter of seconds.

On a side note (as others have mentioned here), you really should start lightning the load on the scourge nerfs patch after patch. It doesn't look good for say a new player or someone thinking of playing if they see classes repeatedly gutted each patch. People get invested in their classes and it's not very encouraging for someone to start playing this game when you repeatedly (excessively) target classes. At least without giving them something significant in return.

Even with the increase in cool downs on various Scourge skills, it still won't alleviate the vitriol from Scourge haters. This is due to the fights likely still ending while the heavy hitting F skills are still on cool down, rendering the cool down increases useless. So for the Scourge haters, you won't notice a difference because the real problem is the same as always, being hit by multiple Scourges/Shades at once.

A lot of the scourge hate has come from players refusing to play classes/builds, which again doesn't look good on the outside if people see you gutting classes based on players laziness or refusal to engage in counter-play.

So I suggest this; seeing as at one time Scourge was thought to be a support class, and Necro has little to no mobility or defense against range; add a new mechanic with barrier: reflect projectiles while barrier is active. If people think this is OP, just know this, Elementalist can quite easily keep up permanent reflects on their group while still providing effective healing. If people still this this is OP, then add the reflect projectile to necro only while barrier is active because realistically they are the ones that need it most.

It would also help if you did something about the constant "obstructed" messages plaguing the class. I know some of it was intended, but somehow I don't think you realized the far reaching effects it had.

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Just want to sum up some of the things I've seen from here and include some of my own suggestions. Now that the salt has worn off and knowing that things are not as final as they seemed at first sight it gives me hope that we might actually get somewhere.

Let me start off by saying that this was a step in the right direction HOWEVER you have neglected (through design or negligence I don't know) some important aspects and some classes/builds got away scot-free.

High Level Goals

  1. Reduce influence of passive traits. (PvP not WvW); Passive skills make the game less skillful. The prevalence of passives is a common competitive player complaint. (PvP only)

First of all, passives are a problem in both PvP AND WvW, not just PvP. PvP and WvW have the same fundamental mechanic, in that it's a PvP and not PvE gamemode. As such, the fundamental problems that exist in PvP will also exist in WvW; if anything passives have a even larger impact in WvW than they do in PvP because of the failure to remove certain runes (such as durability shortly after HoT release from PvP but not WvW), gear imbalances and the existence of BUFFS (like keep auras, food). Balance needs to be addressed separately in PvP and WvW that is true but leaving every profession with strong passives in WvW is as not fun as it would be if passives were never touched in PvP. An example of this is warrior stances in WvW compared to warrior stances in PvP. A WvW warrior with 2 traited endure pains can have 10s of immunity against power damage every 60s (not even mentioning shield) which is made even more silly by the addition of buff foods (-10% dmg reduction) and certain runes. By carrying on leaving passives in the state that they are in WvW you are creating an environment that is not fun and the powercreep will continue. The disparity between WvW and PvP will increase ever further whereas by all accounts and purposes it should be minimal since they are fundamentally, the same game mode.

Secondly, there exists some offensive passives which are not healthy to the game. The biggest offender that I can think of off the top of my head is Lesser Spinal Shivers, although there are bound to be others, and I hope these will get looked at. Traits like these are a problem because they have the potential to turn the fight in your favour whilst being on relatively low cd with little investment, and all the while the enemy has no idea if it's about to proc or not.

Third and most importantly, it is wrong to look at every single passive in the game and go "oh yes, defensive passives will have 90s blanket cd whilst offensive passives will have blanket 45s cd". Balance needs to be addressed as a WHOLE not IN ISOLATION. The disparity between the effectiveness of passives need to be brought closer together since some classes have very strong passives and others have very weak passives. It would be wrong to treat these skills on the same level by implementing a blanket 90s cd on all of them regardless of their effectiveness. An example of this is Crystal Hibernation (which can be very easily interrupted) in Herald vs the likes of passive Endure Pain (carry on doing whatever you were doing with no fear of damage) and Lesser Elixr S (the ability to stomp/ress whilst being immune to everything is very silly).

In my opinion, the first step is to have the system of amulets and runes that exists in PvP be implemented in WvW and buff foods removed. This can at least address one of the problems of gear imbalances further off-setting everything else class/skill/trait related. Objective buffs should remain to keep WvW unique but perhaps the radius reduced (i.e. if you have Stonemist with keep aura level 6 that should only apply within the walls of SM itself and not as it is currently, well outside the keep walls itself).

Whether or not all skills/traits/passives are treated in the exact same manner in PvP and WvW is up for debate and requires a separate, dedicated WvW balance team since 5v5 Conquest is still very different to let's say, 15v15 GvG but not so dissimilar to roaming.

  1. Increase build diversityBy decreasing the power of some of the more dominant builds, we hope to give increased viability to builds that previously were pushed out by these dominant specs. We're also increasing power levels in some targeted areas that previously were underperforming.

This would be good except that:1). You seemed to have forgotten to nerf the two most broken specs in PvP right now (Power mesmer in any elite spec and S/D thief Larcenous Strike) but I saw a post saying mesmer will be re-looked at so will see how that goes.2). You nerfed some meta PvP builds such as FB so hard they will be deleted after the balance patch comes through. This is not increasing build diversity.3). The buffs to other aspects of certain classes were either so inconsequential or in the complete wrong areas they will have no impact on the game.4). Removal of Magi amulet from PvP is a mistake and will delete support specs from the game altogether, decreasing diversity by default (I saw someone else here talk about Cleric amulet and I remember how surprised I was when I learnt it was deleted from the game and it's sad that you keep removing amulets because now if I want a support spec that does well against power damage there is absolutely nothing, again, reducing build diversity by default).

The above things together will guarantee that build diversity will not increase.

  1. Reduce effectiveness of offensive instant cast skills/traitsInstant cast spells don't give players an opportunity to respond. While we don't want to remove combos utilizing instant cast abilities, we wanted to reduce the impact they have.

This is good again but I'll leave three areas for improvement:1). Thief steal2). Mesmer3). Fresh air Ele

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@Hiraldo.7954 said:At first glance most of these changes look good, however I'm very puzzled as to why Celestial Avatar CD is being increased, heals are being reduced, and GoTL is being nerfed. Druid is barely viable as a healer in WvW right now and this will likely kill it entirely.

We
may
rethink some of the druid nerfs for WvW and do them PvP only. We're planning to have a meeting next week to go over feedback. We'll be revising the list over the next week or so and my plan is to post a first revision by the end of next week.

If you do rethink them then make sure you look at those trolly druid builds in wvw too. These are builds where they have too much sustain and can easily mess with 5-10 people tagging keeps, and when the heat comes in they just drop back to water for their great escape, and then rinse and repeat. It also relies heavily on CA and smokescale. I think these kind of builds need to be brought in line.

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Reduce effectiveness of offensive instant cast skills/traits

Instant cast spells don't give players an opportunity to respond. While we don't want to remove combos utilizing instant cast abilities, we wanted to reduce the impact they have.

Shatter Mirage / Mesmer has not been addressed at all. The shatter build offers 0 tells and stealth 0-100 is possible with no counter play. Even without stealth, the difference between a summoned clone chasing you to attack vs a clone going to shatter on you is too subtle.

The daze from the Mirage Thrust (Sword Ambush) is as annoying as Guardian's Trap Daze trait, except that mirage has a lot of traits that can function with interruptions making it extremely annoying.

I'm glad their evasion has been nerfed by the addition of exhaustion. This was required as the mirages especially in wvw could just disengage by running endurance regeneration food and high uptime of vigour.


Necromancer, this is more or less to address the QoL issues regarding necromancers and the change that was introduced in the previous patch, the addition of a 0.5s delay on Shade Abilities was added to address shade-dhuumfire interactions and Desert Shroud, Manifest Sand Shade and Nefarious Favour when coulpled with the trait Path of Corruption, I feel it helped with dealing with the scourge menace however it added a terrible QoL issue for scourges by the addition of a delay on self cleanse, barrier (from both Sand Cascade and Desert Shroud) is really annoying. As there's no reason why the defensive capabilities of the shroud should have the 0.5s delay.

I suggest reverting the 0.5s delay at least on the defensive capabilities but preserving the delay for corruption / dhuumfire application etc.


Resistance -> Immobilize should have a much lower base duration as it's way too powerful in WvW and due to the nature of many skills removing / corrupting resistance first it goes from an annoyance to frustration. A 1s base duration or 0.75s base duration will still have the intended effect while benefiting high expertise corrupters (mostly scourges)

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@ImperialWL.7138 said:4). Removal of Magi amulet from PvP is a mistake and will delete support specs from the game altogether, decreasing diversity by default

nah, firebrand was the only support that ever used magi. since it doesn't actually do any damage while healing people with the tomes, the fact that magi has 0 damage isn't a big deal. tempest and druid always used menders. and blood scourge, which is gonna be dead now as a support spec with the enormous nerfs, used sage (or menders).maybe rev used magi? not sure

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Some feedback on thief:
First of all, the nerds to the passive traits are fine. I like the overall direction of nerfing passive traits and these are good moves.
However, please reconsider merging sword and dagger auto attacks. Here is why:
Yes, the current state of S/D and D/P builds uses auto attacks for damage, but this is good design because initiative is being used so much for utility (stuns, evades, etc.). Thief actually works best when initiative isn’t used for damage because this leads to spammy builds, such as condi evade and unload builds.
Also, I don’t think that reducing the initiative cost for Cloak and Dagger will help D/D or P/D builds enough to be worthwhile since the weakness of CnD is primarily because of how easily avoided it is (blocks/blinds). A initiative decrease isn’t that bad, but it just helps S/D since it’s not very reliant on CnD anyways.

Finally, some feedback on Guardian:
Consider increasing the damage on the longbow symbol. This doesn’t really need a skill split since longbow is so weak in PvE, but this would help make Dragonhunter more competitive without just allowing it to burst people from range. The symbol damage is easily avoided unless the DH is skillful in using CC or dropping the damage on unaware players.

Thank you for the open communication on balance changes. I hope you will read this post and consider my feedback.

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@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:But, what if, instead, they hit Sand Savant?

My only objection to reworking sand savant is.... with the smaller area you won't be able to tag allies. Whatever support scourge had would be totally gone.though it could always be replaced with something that does boost support ability, as the other two traits are quite useless for supporting.

I do believe that this is outside the scope of this topic, however

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@Razor.6392 said:

@MADPIEMAN.8023 said:Buff sword on weaver (dmg on actually used skills and making some skills easier to land) and buff tempest to compete other support specs like firebrand and chrono

We feel that while the current state of sword weaver and tempest might be under performing a bit, they aren't too far from viability. Considering the changes we're planning for other classes, we feel that they may be in a pretty good spot after the release. We didn't want to buff them with this release just to have to nerf them later. We may be wrong, so we'll be keeping an eye on them after the release to see how they fared.

What's your opinion on holo photon forge autoattacks having 240 range while sword weaver has 130 range?

I was dueling a guildie last night in our guild hall with him on his sword weaver and me on my holosmith, and his number one problem trying to hit me was the difference in range between the photon forge autoattack and weaver sword. Reducing the range of the forge's autoattack would make sense as a balance adjustment to bring it in line with the range of other melee weapons. Most greatsword autoattacks have ranges between 130-150, and the forge's autoattack looks like a large sword of light.

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@reikken.4961 said:

@ImperialWL.7138 said:4). Removal of Magi amulet from PvP is a mistake and will delete support specs from the game altogether, decreasing diversity by default

nah, firebrand was the only support that ever used magi. since it doesn't actually do any damage while healing people with the tomes, the fact that magi has 0 damage isn't a big deal. tempest and druid always used menders. and blood scourge, which is gonna be dead now as a support spec with the enormous nerfs, used sage or menders.maybe rev used magi? not sure

I mean the only support spec was Firebrand after PoF. Whilst druid and scourge retained some support aspects one is a bunker and the other dps. I think that Firebrand nerfs along with magi amulet removal is the final nail in the coffin for support FB. It was already being destroyed by every power build in the game after 6th Feb. Unless tempest comes back as viable support running Menders but I highly doubt that.

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@"DeadlySynz.3471" said:The changes overall seem interesting; some heavy nerfs across the board, but nearly all classes getting hit making it even, so perhaps this may prolong fights (in WvW anyway) instead of being trained over in a matter of seconds.

On a side note (as others have mentioned here), you really should start lightning the load on the scourge nerfs patch after patch. It doesn't look good for say a new player or someone thinking of playing if they see classes repeatedly gutted each patch. People get invested in their classes and it's not very encouraging for someone to start playing this game when you repeatedly (excessively) target classes. At least without giving them something significant in return.

Even with the increase in cool downs on various Scourge skills, it still won't alleviate the vitriol from Scourge haters. This is due to the fights likely still ending while the heavy hitting F skills are still on cool down, rendering the cool down increases useless. So for the Scourge haters, you won't notice a difference because the real problem is the same as always, being hit by multiple Scourges/Shades at once.

A lot of the scourge hate has come from players refusing to play classes/builds, which again doesn't look good on the outside if people see you gutting classes based on players laziness or refusal to engage in counter-play.

So I suggest this; seeing as at one time Scourge was thought to be a support class, and Necro has little to no mobility or defense against range; add a new mechanic with barrier: reflect projectiles while barrier is active. If people think this is OP, just know this, Elementalist can quite easily keep up permanent reflects on their group while still providing effective healing. If people still this this is OP, then add the reflect projectile to necro only while barrier is active because realistically they are the ones that need it most.

It would also help if you did something about the constant "obstructed" messages plaguing the class. I know some of it was intended, but somehow I don't think you realized the far reaching effects it had.

Well said.

The main issue that I see is that to create scourge Anet had to change Speed of Shadows and Vital Persistance which gutted the crap out of reaper for all except pve. That left necro mains with scourge to play in wvw like it or not. Perhaps a whole necro re work was required before scourge was introduced to game so that there could still be viable necro alternatives to playing scourge. Nothing in this balance preview has anything for reaper....reaper was much more fun to play than scourge, please give reaper some love!

Are increased cooldowns the only way to "balance" scourge? Where is the consideration to lack of mobility and speed to make up for nerfs? Even Trail of Anguish one of necros few speed tools is going to have an increased cooldown.

The change to Plague signet seems unnecessary, this has to be used wisely now so why increase the cd?

Kinda seems like the only good necro is a dead one....but warrior bubble remains overdone.

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StopNerfingTempest

You've already kicked it several times, thrown it into the ground face first, stamped on its head so hard it went underground, then burried it with a pile of bricks, and NOW you're building a fortress ontop of it to prevent it ever coming back.You're nerfing CORE ele traits, from water and arcane that give ele the measely survivability it does have, destroying ALL types of build diversity on the class.Not only that, you're trashing the offensive lines even further and rendering them further useless, Cleansing Fires on fire line, what, 3 condi every 40s is too much??? FYI any necro can corrupt 3 boons every 15s with corrupt boon, or a Scourge can do it every 8 seconds with F1 F2.You're also nerfing tempest defense, a key trait for offensive tempest, which I had hopes to one day return but nevermind, making air traitline more useless.

Ele is not in the meta, it's not a "Great" option either, its snorted upon by pugs in platinum and gold on your own team, and you're nerfing it further? Nice.Giving us <100 extra barrier on a trash utility does not justify the nerfs.

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I dont like these nerfs, its sad that you have to kill good builds instead thinking in a way to improve the others, you say "build diversity" but you just killing 1 build to create another 1 build.

In any case, since seems a direct hit to "power creep meta" its not balanced that power thief D/P and S/D are getting huge nerfs while the power shatter mesmers are still intact, dont tell me about the "complex shatter combo" when we all know here how people just use macro and one shot all the time.

I dont like it but if you still going forward with this, you should also nerf the burst capacity in mesmer.

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1– Mesmer/Mirage has way too much sustain, mobility, disengage and damage. I would reduce sword ambush Mirage Thrust to 450 range (same as Holo Leap.) Jaunt and/or Elusive Mind should have its Condi clear removed — there is far too much Condi clear given to this class as a free perk tacked onto already great skills.

2– Scourge CD nerf is just not fun, and the root problem has always been Sand Savant. Remove Sand Savant from all game modes, and change it into reduced shade cool down + additional ammo for shades. I do not think that a 30 second Desert Shroud CD is a good idea, and it completely removes power scourge from any game mode.

3– Holosmith has had significant nerfs to sustain with the changes to Alchemy and other such traits. It is a true glass cannon now, so all of the damage nerfs seem a bit odd. What is this class meant to do? And gutting Aim-Assisted Rocket basically makes this a useless trait. What about the 50% damage reduction proposed along with reduced CD? Less burst but more sustain seems fair and what you are aiming for— 7 seconds recharge would be ideal (syncing with Surprise Shot traited recharge btw, for those rare Static Discharge builds).

4– For Warrior, Full Counter should need to hit a target to proc Adrenal Health and other traits. I don’t think it currently works like this and is granting free perks despite missing targets. Warrior damage/sustain seems a bit too high overall, but not sure how things will shake out.

5– Ranger absolutely needs Stone Form/Lesser Signet of Stone to be 3 instead of 5 seconds as well.

6– How feasibly could one change all of these hard to balance immunity skills into damage reduction skills? I have often wondered if perhaps everything aside from “dodge” should become damage reduction %s rather than full mitigation. Skills like Right of the Great Dwarf and Spectrums Shield get this right, and it would make classes much easier to balance as Anet has consistently undervalued evade/immunity since the game’s inception. Some skills could be higher uptime/lower reduction percent. Other skills could have higher reduction and lower uptime. It would make things far more interesting. You could even place unique caps determined by class and armor weight with regards to maximum stacked value.

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Some quick thoughts on a few of the skill/trait proposed changes:

WarriorSkills• Dagger Autoattack chain: Reduced the power coefficients from 0.55, 0.55, 0.85 to 0.4, 0.4, 0.85 (-15% overall) in PvP and WvW

Dagger already doesn’t hit for all that much. Is this really necessary?

• Featherfoot Grace: Increased the cooldown from 30 seconds to 40 seconds in PvP and WvW

Maybe, although I think it was nice for warrior to have a tool like this more readily on demand. On the other hand, it would put it more in line with other classes.

• "Shake It Off!:" Increased the number of conditions cleansed from 2 to 3 in PvP and WvW

Why not make this change game-wide? I don’t think it would really “break” PvE…

• Last Stand: Increased the cooldown from 40 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP only• Shrug it Off: Increased the cooldown from 25 seconds to 60 seconds in PvP only

These increases seem overly harsh. If you must increase, then might I suggest 60 seconds and 45 seconds respectively? Don’t get me wrong, these traits are a pain to fight against, but they also keep the warrior reasonably in the fight.

GuardianTraits• Virtuous Solace: Increased the cooldown from 75 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP only• Hunter's Determination: Increased the cooldown from 75 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP only

So long as it’s PvP only, this could be fair.

ThiefSkills• Dagger Autoattack chain: Reduced the power coefficients from 0.8, 0.85, 1.1 to 0.6, 0.65, 1.1 (-15% overall) in PvP and WvW• Heartseeker: Increased the power coefficients at all thresholds by 20% in PvP and WvW. The new values are as follows.o Above 50%: 1.0 to 1.2o Below 50%: 1.5 to 1.8o Below 25%: 2.0 to 2.4• Sword Autoattack chain: Reduced the power coefficients from 0.8, 0.8, 1.3 to 0.6, 0.6, 1.3 (-14% overall) in PvP and WvW

...but why?

Traits• Pain response: Increased the cooldown from 16 seconds to 40 seconds in PvP only

Why 40?

RangerTraits• Refined Toxins: Increased the cooldown from 5 seconds to 15 seconds in PvP and WvW

Maybe it’s just me, but it seems like condition-oriented ranger builds already struggle in the competitive environment. If you must increase the cooldown, then maybe only to 10 seconds?

• Rugged Growth: Reduced the healing power coefficient from 0.245 to 0.1225 (-50%) in PvP and WvW

This is what everyone has been complaining about for a while now: you’re nerfing core traits to deal with problematic elite specialization builds. When you do things like this you actually hurt build diversity, rather than help it. Core traits are used by base and elite specializations. If you want to keep everything viable, then perhaps focus on the elite specs that are specifically causing issues so as not to disrupt non-problematic builds. Please keep that in mind when making balance decisions.

Regarding this particular profession: most agree that the druid is over performing in sPvP. Core ranger and Soulbeast, however, don't seem so problematic. Rugged Growth is one of the tools many builds use to stay in the fight, and it is arguably even more important for non-druid rangers who don’t have access to the druid's bevy of healing abilities. Moreover, it depends on maintaining protection (a strippable boon) and isn't a free passive heal like, say, Healing Signet (which is untouched in these notes). I would encourage you to find a more creative solution to the druid problem before going at core traits. If you do push this one through, then I suggest either (a) limiting the reduction to 25% at most, and/or (b) limiting the change to sPvP only, since arguably no ranger builds are over performing in WvW.

EngineerSkills• Crystal Configuration: Eclipse: The stability portion of this trait will now be applied only upon successful hits of Corona Burst

I’m on the fence about this one. On the one hand, I like that holosmiths will be forced to deal with the same risks as warriors when it comes to self-sustain and think the change might not go far enough (i.e., make it apply to barrier, too). On the other hand, holosmith isn't like scrapper in terms of stability access, so this might be overly harsh. I would have thought it balanced to just remove Corona Burst’s second hit and leave it otherwise as is.

MesmerTraits• Elusive Mind: This trait now applies 4 seconds of Exhaustion when breaking a stun

Okay, give it a shot. I still think the trait just needs to be redesigned, but as I don’t have any immediate ideas, I’m open to this approach.

NecromancerSkills• Garish Pillar: Increased the cooldown from 15 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP and WvW• Desert Shroud: Increased the cooldown from 20 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW• Ghastly Breach: Increased the cooldown from 75 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP and WvW• Plague Signet: Increased the cooldown from 30 seconds to 40 seconds in PvP and WvW• Trail of Anguish: Increased the cooldown from 25 seconds to 35 seconds in PvP and WvW

At this point, I’m not sure necromancer (or, more specifically, scourge) needs additional nerfs (outside possibly of barrier spam in WvW, which could just as easily be dealt with by adjusting coefficients instead). Honestly, the red circles alone really helped me (although I know it can be a visual pain). On the other hand, I know they can be an absolute pain to fight in melee/on point. Maybe keep these changes relegated to sPvP?

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@"Gaile Gray.6029" said:

Ranger

Skills

  • Seed of Life: Increased the cooldown from 1 second to 3 seconds in PvP and WvW
  • Rejuvenating Tides: Reduced the base healing per pulse from 650 to 550 (-15%) in PvP and WvW
  • Solar Beam: Reduced the power coefficient per strike from 0.3 to 0.25 (-17%) in PvP and WvW
  • Signet of Stone: Reduced the duration from 6 seconds to 3 seconds in PvP and WvW. Reduced the cooldown from 80 seconds to 40 in PvP and WvW
  • Celestial Avatar: Increased the cooldown from 15 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP and WvW
  • Ricochet: Increased the power coefficient from 0.7 to 0.8 (+14%) in PvP and WvW. Increased Might duration from 5 seconds to 10 seconds in PvP and WvW
  • Winter's Bite: Increased the power coefficient from 1.25 to 1.5 (+20%) in PvP and WvW. Increased the Bleeding duration from 8 seconds to 12 seconds in PvP and WvW
  • Splitblade: Increased the power coefficient per axe from 0.3 to 0.4 (+33%) in PvP and WvW
  • Instinctive Engage: Increased the power coefficient from 0.6 to 1 (+67%) in PvP and WvW
  • Healing Spring: Increased the number of conditions cleansed per pulse from 1 to 2 in PvP and WvW

Traits

  • Stoneform: Increased the cooldown from 70 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP only
  • Shared Anguish: Increased the cooldown from 60 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP only
  • Protective Ward: Increased the cooldown from 18 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP only
  • Refined Toxins: Increased the cooldown from 5 seconds to 15 seconds in PvP and WvW
  • Rugged Growth: Reduced the healing power coefficient from 0.245 to 0.1225 (-50%) in PvP and WvW
  • Grace of the Land: Reduced the number of Might stacks applied from 3 to 2 in PvP and WvW
  • Fortifying Bond: Reduced duration of shared Might stacks from 10 seconds to 5 seconds in PvP and WvW
  • "We Heal as One!:" Reduced duration of copied Might stacks from 10 seconds to 5 seconds in PvP and WvW
  • Fresh Reinforcement: Reduced shared Might duration 10 seconds to 5 seconds in PvP and WvW
  • Ambidexterity: Increased the Condition Damage granted from 150 to 240 in PvP and WvW
  • Two-Handed Training: Increased the bonus damage from 5% to 10% in PvP and WvW

Okay! Thanks to Cal Cohen's help, I'm going to give my suggestions on the proposed changes first, then on skills that weren't listed.

I've been a PvP ranger main since release so the changes I'm suggesting come from years of experience with this class. It's going to be a long read but I sincerely hope you guys take these suggestions into account. All of the changes I am suggesting will give EVERY single traitline and utility type ranger has, a spot in the meta.


Proposed Changes


Ranger

Skills

  • Seed of Life: This skill needs to cleanse 2 conditions again if the cooldown is going to be increased. I'd suggest having the Seed of Life blossom immediately after casting, then leaving a light field behind. This encourages more active play and increases its viability when using it on a moving target(s).
  • Rejuvenating Tides: Don't nerf the healing coefficient. Instead, have the initial pulse lowered, but gradually increase the healing over the course of the skill with 2 conditions cleared on the last one. This would promote remaining in the channel for the entire duration. At the moment, the most effective way to utilize this skill in PvP is to receive the 1st or 2nd tick of healing then leaving CA as there isn't enough incentive to channel it fully.
  • Solar Beam: This skill already has low damage. If the power coefficient is going to be lowered, adding a single stack of burning or might to the 3rd pulse would add more depth to this skill.
  • Signet of Stone: I like this change a lot. I always felt that the 80 second cooldown was too long. I'd be happy with the halved duration/cooldown.
  • Celestial Avatar: Increasing the cooldown to 15 seconds was too much in my opinion. Reducing the cooldown back to 10 seconds, but nerfing Druidic Clarity and Celestial Shadow in response, would be a much better change. This will increase the speed of gameplay, while retaining its effectiveness. I'll touch on these skills in the next section.
  • Instinctive Engage: Add an evade to this skill. The lack of an evade on MH dagger and the slow auto attack speed are the only things holding this weapon back in competitive play.
  • Healing Spring: I agree with the increased condition clears per pulse. However, it will remain unviable in PvP and WvW due to the fact that remaining in the same place for 10 seconds is extremely detrimental. I'd recommend cutting the cooldown to 20 seconds, the duration to 5 seconds, and increasing the initial heal to 6k to keep up with the likes of Troll Unguent and We Heal as One. This will reduce its overall effectiveness, but the reduced cooldown will let this healing skill see a LOT more use across every gamemode.
Axe

I believe axe as a whole needs to be reworked. Adding an evade to Splitblade or Winter's Bite would help this weapon out a lot. At the moment, it doesn't offer enough to be taken in a PvP setting. So, my suggestions will be to change the functionality of the skills, as I don't believe changing the numbers on them will do any good.

  • Ricochet: Remove the bouncing mechanic. Just flat out increase the single target damage and have it continue to grant 1 might per attack.
  • Winter's Bite: Remove the projectile. Change it to a 600 range leap that applies chill and weakness to nearby enemies and 3 seconds of swiftness to the player and pet upon landing.
  • Splitblade: Shotgunning isn't a viable tactic with all of the AoEs and projectile hate in PvP. Making this skill a single 900 range axe that applies 4 stacks of bleeding and 1 stack of poison would be a welcome change.

Traits

  • Stoneform: I don't believe a cooldown increase on this skill was necessary. I would leave the cooldown at 60 seconds, or change its functionality to cleanse a single condition on you and your pet when gaining Remorseless.
  • Shared Anguish: Okay, this change was really bad. Shared Anguish has been extremely lackluster since release, as well as a poor choice when compared to other similar traits that activate upon being hit with a crowd control. Not to mention that the interrupt on our pet is also a drawback for taking it. A cooldown reduction to 30 seconds would increase this traits viability.
  • Protective Ward: 30 seconds cooldown is way too long. This change alone will push Nature Magic out of the meta completely. I'd suggest reducing the cooldown to 15 seconds while removing the weakness application completely. Leaving the protection duration at 4 seconds and possibly adding 4 seconds of regeneration would reduce its effectiveness while allowing it to remain a viable option.
  • Refined Toxins: 15 seconds is too long. This trait only activates if the ranger or his pet is above 75% health. Increasing the cooldown to 10 seconds would reduce its effectiveness but retain its viability.
  • Rugged Growth: I don't believe this trait is a major offender. Reducing the healing coefficient to nerf Druid also hurts Core Ranger and Soulbeast in the process. Leave the healing alone but remove its ability to generate Astral Force. This will still reduce the survivability of Druid but doesn't affect the entire class as a result.
  • Grace of the Land: This change is okay. Another option would be to leave the might stacks at 3 but reduce their durations instead.
  • Fortifying Bond: Don't reduce the might duration. This just hurts the entire class across every gamemode.
  • We Heal as One: Ditto. ^
  • Fresh Reinforcement: Ditto. ^^
  • Ambidexterity: PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE also give it Offhand Training's old functionality of increasing the range of our Offhand Skills by 300. This was such an amazing trait back in the day. Removing this trait single-handedly deleted the old shortbow/axe-dagger ranger from the meta. OH dagger hasn't felt the same since then. I would much rather bring the increased range back than increase the condition damage.
  • Two-Handed Training: This change is okay. If this trait also increased Hilt Bash range by 200, it would be amazing.

Changes That Weren't Listed


Core Ranger

Skills

  • Smoke Trap: Elite Trap. When Smoke Trap is triggered, nearby foes are blinded and dazed. Smoke Field. 60 seconds cooldown. Can be triggered manually by recasting the skill.
Longbow
  • Longbow: Arrows should pierce baseline in WvW. Currently, we're required to take Marksmanship if we want our weapon to function properly in large scale PvP. This change would improve Ranger's viability and effectiveness in WvW while maintaining the same overall power.

Traits

  • Sharpened Edges: The bleed portion of this trait will now be applied only upon successful hits of instead of critical hits. Merged functionality with Hidden Barbs.
  • Trapper's Expertise: Move this to Master Tier in Hidden Barbs place and bring back ground targetted traps.
  • Trapper's Defense (New Trait): When a trap is triggered, nearby foes are blinded.
  • Light on Your Feet: Renamed to Trap Mastery. Throwing a trap applies 2 seconds of resistance on you and your pet. Offensive traps now apply 1 stack of bleeding on each pulse.
  • Strider's Defense: When you evade an attack, gain Quickness. Sword and Shortbow skills recharge faster.
  • Empathic Bond: The previous changes to this trait made it completely useless. In its current state, it offers almost nothing to the player while potentially doubling the amount of conditions our pet receives. Instead, dodging grant 2 seconds of resistance to you and your pet.
  • Nature's Vengeance: Spirits can move and follow you in addition to its current effects.
  • Invigorating Bond: You and your pet heal each other for 120 health when striking a foe.
  • Wilting Strike: You and your pet apply 2 seconds of weakness when striking a foe. 16 second cooldown.

Druid

Skills

  • Cosmic Ray: This skill has been completely useless since HoT was released 3 years ago. Turn it into a bigger, cooler looking Solar Beam attack. Remove the healing, increase the base damage per pulse to 333, and apply slow on its 3rd pulse. Now we have a reason to stay in CA to do damage rather than heal.
  • Seed of Life: Now blossoms immediately and leaves behind a light field.

Traits

  • Druidic Clarity: Becoming a Celestial Avatar removes all movement impairing conditions from you and your pet. Leaving Celestial Avatar removes all damaging conditions from you and your pet. This will reduce the trait's effectiveness in burst condition clearing, while retaining the same overall power.
  • Celestial Shadow: Reduced the stealth and super speed duration from 3 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP and WvW.
  • Verdant Etching: This trait now applies 1.5 seconds of alacrity to the player and pet when casting a Glyph.
  • Ancient Seeds: Reduced the cooldown to 10 seconds. Reduced root duration to 1.5 seconds.

Soulbeast

Skills

  • Double Arc: Reflects missiles in addition to its current effects.
  • Groundwork Gouge: Increase the speed of the auto attack chain by 50%.

Traits

  • Predator's Cunning: You and your pet have a 33% chance to apply 1 stack of poison for 1 second when striking a foe in addition to its current effects.
  • Leader of the Pack: Stance skills have 20% reduced recharge in addition to its current effects.
  • Oppressive Superiority: You and your pet have a 33% chance to gain 2 seconds of fury when striking a foe. 5 second cooldown.

or

  • Oppressive Superiority: You and your pet deal 2% more damage to foes for every 10% of their missing health.
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