50% scourge nerf doesn't bring build diversity

[Egorum.9506]

It just guts the class. 50% nerfs to desert shroud and trail of anguish, 30% to plague signet? Lol

Shroud is the signature of the entire class, all of the traits work off of it. It is all of the defense built into the class. Thats why we have no invulns, blocks, mobility, or stability. When we do finally get a stability utility, it only grants one stack and that's still too strong?

Every necro spec is weak to the same things: range and CC. We still have no defense against either of these things. How is build diversity promoted when we lose access to stability even further? We still can do nothing to classes that can kite. Our best option is flesh worm, and that only as a disengage (providing it doesn't get killed first!). Sure, use the easily interrupted sand swell. I'm sure that 900 range is going to change things when you have no swiftness or mobility on your weapons. Especially against every other classes 1200 range teleports.

Do you know why every necro runs staff, consume conditions, and plague signet? Because those are your only options for condition removal. If they're down, you just slowly die. If they're blocked, you die (this means soul marks is a mandatory trait =D, which are awesome for diversity). If you do not run these skills, you won't make it out of gold because anyone who runs conditions or even just immobilize can freely kill you.

Want to run power? Good luck, the skill power coefficients are all trash. Well of suffering is the best at 1.0 per tick, which is irrelevant because who stands in a well lol. You want to run dagger? Sure hope they don't have access to slow, cripple, or chill because you'll never be able to stay on someone.

Want to run support? Your healing is sub par, none of it is burst. You exist to res people. All of which is tied to shroud 4, which has a ~20s CD regardless of which elite you use. But that's overperforming, better nerf it too.

Condi? Here's the real issue, dhummfire. Bring it to 2s instead of 3 and you don't need to nerf anything else because that trait is the only reasons scourge does damage. The weapon skills are all a joke. The Condi output is what a stack of bleeding? 1 2s torment? Scary! Or they can blow all of their CDs to apply 5 stacks of each!

You want to increase build diversity, take a look at all of the skills, traits, and utilities that are severely underperforming and make them attractive to use. See which traits the smallest amount of the player base uses and go from there. Getting rid of each thing that makes an entire class viable doesn't mean people can craft something useful from what's left, it means they'll just reroll. Can't make a 5 star dinner out of pig shit.

How many necro are in the top 100? Not many? Then the difficulty players have in fighting them are due to a lack of skill.

What game mode will necros be playable in after these changes? In wvw, why wouldn't they just play weaver? In pvp, mesmer? In pve (lol) literally anything else? People do not play your game so they can lose.

Make sand savant 240 radius or dhummfire 2s burn and that's all you need to do. Buffing dagger is retarded because necros lack any of the tools that would make them viable in melee range. Can't have a class with long cast times, low damage, and no stability be successful. Give them a mage bane tether to keep people in range and maybe you have a chance.

[Kasdwer.3721]

nah i didnt mean that, its just some really delusional things you wrote down, just like "not many scourge in top 100" while in reality theres already 2 scourge mains in the top 5 of EU (not trying to flaming them,because they are probably better player than me and 90% of the rest of the playerbase, but i dont think they would have been there if they wouldnt main scourge)

[Vieux P.1238]

Dingdong the scourge is dead the scourge is dead.https://tenor.com/view/dead-witch-muerto-adams-family-gif-9460756

[Egorum.9506]

Check out the lists man, necros are underrepresented in the top 100 because they don't carry due to low mobility and easy counters. CC them, or range them. A single competent DE or power druid nullifies every scourge on the enemy team.

[hurrado.2346]

Sadly I think every necromancer build will be nerfed into utter uselessness, look at what happened to reaper....

[Egorum.9506]

That's exactly what they're doing to scourge. Really though, 50%? On everything defensive based, because scourge had such an easy time sustaining to start with lmao

[Egorum.9506]

There's a reason they lose 1v1s, they lack any of the tools to do so

[psyt.9415]

I don’t play scourage but I think all they need to do is just make thier aoe radius smaller so they can’t overlap a point in pvp and then your golden.

[Egorum.9506]

Straight nerfs, two patches in a row after 2 years of the last elite spec getting nothing but nerfs? What could be wrong with that

[Dreddo.9865]

There is no diversity at all, atm only one build is viable and that is 'what Anet planned initially with the scourge design'. Core necro isn't a thing, neither it's reaper. I mean ok even if you get bored with all those scourge nerfs and decide to go another path, currently there isn't. For me it is more disappointing that developers follow changes based on 'forum shouts' rather than actual examination of a situation. I mean let's look what happened to the 'OP revenant' who now is a redundant class (in all aspects).

[Vague Memory.2817]

Scourge, Mirage, and Holo are so OP at the moment I doubt anyone apart from people who main these elites will shed any tears. These elite specs are easy mode, why complain when you now you'll have to work for your supper like everyone else.

[hurrado.2346]

@Vague Memory.2817 said:Scourge, Mirage, and Holo are so OP at the moment I doubt anyone apart from people who main these elites will shed any tears. These elite specs are easy mode, why complain when you now you'll have to work for your supper like everyone else.

Everyone else? Guards that have many viable and strong builds even with their core spec? Thieves that have been extremely useful in pvp due to their super high mobility, good damage and +1 ability, while also having multiple viable builds? Warriors which have always been strong, and now with spell breaker are excellent in pvp? Like rangers that have good mobility, range and can have some sweet dueling builds? Eles which throughout time have had some of the most powerful builds in the game... Albeit they may not be the best right now? You must mean revenants which are severely underperforming and have to work super hard to do well and have barely viable builds.

Your bias is showing, no class should be nerfed into oblivion.

[Egorum.9506]

At least other classes see use in pve. None of the necro specs are viable outside of pvp, why even have the class if it's just going to be gutted again and again? Fingers crossed for more 5% axe or dagger buffs!

[Kahyos.1437]

As a lot of people already mentioned, its just the design of the class is really bad from a balancing perspective. Its either OP since you can AOE down everything or its useless cause it gets nerfed to the ground. The scourge gameplay really needs a rework.

[Sammej.6452]

I hate playing scourge.. and I win each time I do. all I need to do is fucking faceroll. it's so broken. Necro's a failed class from the start.

[Mr Godlike.6098]

I think you missed the point with ,,bring more build diversity" line - it about classes and elite spec that are under-performing now like: generally rev, ele, large number of HoT elite spec's, few PoF elite spec's. Necro has already viable spec that is must in any 5 man pre-made...but for what exactly is needed weaver? Or soulbeast in pvp...and you could ask the same question about A LOT builds.

But I doubt that anything will change that much...and general passive traits nerf will generate new imbalances.

[Abazigal.3679]

The problem with scourge is generally the design. Itself, the build wasn't so OP pre nerf, the latter is :

• it is annoying because you usually have to fight off points ( and alternatively, it is fairly easy to lose when one players keeps suiciding to scourge)
• dealing with 2 of them is hard, requires you to have a good setup
• they are good when there's a firebrand aside

The 3 points combined happen quite a lot in solo queue, and make the class a real pain. But the build itself isn't a pain. I don't know how to fix this..

[Arkantos.7460]

nerfing , off course, build diversity for OTHER CLASSES ;) increase

[Egorum.9506]

Decrease the size of sand savant OR bring dhummfure to 2s, that's all it'd take. Not gutting every single defense mechanic and giving nothing to work with. You don't increase build diversity by removing everything viable about a class, you also need to improve underperforming traits and skills to make them a viable option

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

@Egorum.9506 said:Decrease the size of sand savant OR bring dhummfure to 2s, that's all it'd take. Not gutting every single defense mechanic and giving nothing to work with. You don't increase build diversity by removing everything viable about a class, you also need to improve underperforming traits and skills to make them a viable option

Nerfing Dhuumfire would have little effect. Sand Savant is what needs to be nerfed.

[timetopat.7921]

To the ground baby

[Egorum.9506]

Necros all run 2-3 stun breaks as is because they have no defensive cds otherwise, you can't even compete in high level play without them because you get locked down too easily. So sure, nerf their defensive options. That makes sense.

[Diesel Stelar.3709]

@Egorum.9506 said:......

Buddy, from my experience it looks like we play 2 different games. From overall game perspective-> necros are wanted in t4 fracs for epidemic and my most smooth runs with pugs were with 4 necros. For the same reason they are viable in 50% of the raid bosses, they are still ok option for the rest.About PvP:This season I have about 550 games, playing multiclass including scourge. In higher pvp mmr necros are at least 2, often 4 in the game. By elite split I would say about 70% scourge and 30% reaper. Now about the scourge (which I also play this season) they have plenty of defensive options -> Spectral armor keeps me alive more than it should in big fights on point. You have also access to fears, cc, about 4 condi cleanses and the sand shield. If Anet is nerfing scourge's defensive options they clearly recognize that the combo of FB+Scourge is too much of an advantage in ranked solo. When you play tournaments and have team on voice chat, you can coordinate and burst and there's nothing they can do, but it is true this combo dominates solo ranked.

Second, I don't think scourge is balanced at all, when you look at this point of view. From all classes in light and medium armor they are simultaneously the tankiest AND they also provide the best aoe dmg. When you add to the mixture a FB or a druid to support them, it takes way too much commitment from the opposing team to deal with this, so best they just avoid it. I personally have had most success vs these combos, when I just go contest and capture, where they aren't.About the power builds, why are you talking about wells? Power reaper wants to just build on life energy and go into shroud so, obviously your utilities are spectral + condi cleanse or you want every single skill and trait line of necro to be viable in pvp? No class has that.Overall I don't think a class should have such access to cc, survivability and dmg/condi simultaneously as the necros currently have. They should have a weak spot and this is the ranged fight and when you face a scourge to go in/out of the fight, baiting skills and cds out. Right now scourges were able to just sit on a point and pretty much take it, without using the environment as every other class (sb not as much) does. Now they will be forced to be more mindful of the matchups they take and their positioning, so what's actually bad about it?

[Nefras.7314]

@hurrado.2346 said:Sadly I think every necromancer build will be nerfed into utter uselessness, look at what happened to reaper....

You do realize once the patch hits, reaper will take over scourges role ... and everyone will start crying about it 100%

[Crinn.7864]

@ZombieSlayeR.8702 said:

@hurrado.2346 said:Sadly I think every necromancer build will be nerfed into utter uselessness, look at what happened to reaper....

You do realize once the patch hits, reaper will take over scourges role ... and everyone will start crying about it 100%

No it won't.