Israel.7056 Posted February 26, 2018 Author Share Posted February 26, 2018 @kharmin.7683 said:@Israel.7056 said:I don't buy them I sell them. People who just buy them would most likely benefit from this idea as well as it would likely increase the overall supply of gen 1 legendaries and thus bring their price down over time. The usual going price for a map complete is anywhere from 500-800g last time I checked so as long as the gem exchange cost is less than that then the prices should come down.@Israel.7056 said:My personal motivation is ultimately irrelevant. Some people buy them and some people sell them. Some people do map completes just to sell them to people like me. It's all voluntary interaction and it's all allowed by ANET so what difference does it make?More legendaries in circulation means more legendaries for everyone. That benefits people who want to use them and people who want to sell them.I'd still be able to make money if the price dropped 50 percent sure because I'd make up in volume whatever I lost on each individual sale.The only people who would be hurt in gold terms by more legendaries entering the market are the people who bought a lot of legendaries at their current prices or higher prices in order to try to sell them for more later.Your personal motivations are very much relevant. Besides, I believe that you are mis-reading the market. You wouldn't be able to make up the difference in the price drop by selling in quantity because there would be other players who would be following the same path. By all means, flood the market with legendaries and see how well that works out for everyone.In my opinion, this would also detract from the very definition of a legendary. I would find it hard to see something as unique if everyone had one.Why are my motivations relevant? Would I stand to potentially benefit from this? Yes. So what? So would a lot of other people.Legendaries are already ubiquitous, not just the gen 1s but the gen 2s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Israel.7056 Posted February 26, 2018 Author Share Posted February 26, 2018 @Just a flesh wound.3589 said:@Israel.7056 said:@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:@Israel.7056 said:I don't buy them I sell them. People who just buy them would most likely benefit from this idea as well as it would likely increase the overall supply of gen 1 legendaries and thus bring their price down over time. The usual going price for a map complete is anywhere from 500-800g last time I checked so as long as the gem exchange cost is less than that then the prices should come down.@Israel.7056 said:@SkyFallsInThunder.8257 said:So you wanna pay to skip playing the game. Hm...This particular aspect of it and I would gladly pay to do so.More importantly I think a lot of other players would too.What you actually want is a way to pay for skipping the game in order to make more gold faster by crafting and selling more Legendaries. Sir, your suggestion is completely self interested.So what? That doesn't mean it's a bad idea. I happen to be on the production side of things rather than the consumption side what difference does it make?It makes it an idea where you are only considering how to get more gold faster. That makes it a bad reason to suggest as a self interested suggestion like this which is wallet motivated doesn’t care about any harm to the rest of the game as long as the person who suggests it gets richer faster. That line of thinking is a contingent on values that I simply don't share and that you can't objectively prove.You may happen to think that people making more legendaries is bad for the game I do not.EDIT: The point still stands that they're already selling level 80 boosters and waypoint unlock packages so it seems logical to me that they'd be willing to sell heart completion as well. I think a lot of people would be willing to buy them and I think that's ultimately what Arenanet cares about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zohane.7208 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 @Israel.7056 said:@Zohane.7208 said:@Israel.7056 said:@"SkyFallsInThunder.8257" said:So you wanna pay to skip playing the game. Hm...This particular aspect of it and I would gladly pay to do so.More importantly I think a lot of other players would too.Ok, let's play the game then...Hearts are, by far, the biggest part of world completion; not having to do them makes world completion a very fast affair, I'll say they could be valued about the same as the 2 gifts of exploration (all the zone completions would cover the value of the other parts).Going rate for one GoE seems to be 400g (taken from another recent forum thread) - 2 GoE would be 800g.Gold->gem conversion is roughly 100g/400 gems.So by that calculation 2 GoE should cost about 3200 gems. Let's round that up and call it 3500 or 4000 gems. I guess that would be a "fair" price for skipping hearts - for ONE character.That would work for me. Although I don't think it would make sense to value them at exactly the same price as a GoE perhaps half the price. So maybe 2k gems.2500 to be generous.The price would obviously have to be higher than you could earn from them, otherwise it would be too easy to make money from them. You would then actually pay for the convenience, which is what you're after, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kharmin.7683 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 Your motivations are relevant because you are asking for a change to the current status quo that doesn't seem to resonate with the majority of the people in this thread. Granted, the forums are a small sampling of the entire user base but if ANet were to seriously consider your proposal, they would need to see it benefit a much larger audience. I honestly don't think they would make this change to satisfy your desire to make more coin -- that's not the overarching purpose for GW2./me shrugs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Israel.7056 Posted February 26, 2018 Author Share Posted February 26, 2018 @Zohane.7208 said:@Israel.7056 said:@Zohane.7208 said:@Israel.7056 said:@"SkyFallsInThunder.8257" said:So you wanna pay to skip playing the game. Hm...This particular aspect of it and I would gladly pay to do so.More importantly I think a lot of other players would too.Ok, let's play the game then...Hearts are, by far, the biggest part of world completion; not having to do them makes world completion a very fast affair, I'll say they could be valued about the same as the 2 gifts of exploration (all the zone completions would cover the value of the other parts).Going rate for one GoE seems to be 400g (taken from another recent forum thread) - 2 GoE would be 800g.Gold->gem conversion is roughly 100g/400 gems.So by that calculation 2 GoE should cost about 3200 gems. Let's round that up and call it 3500 or 4000 gems. I guess that would be a "fair" price for skipping hearts - for ONE character.That would work for me. Although I don't think it would make sense to value them at exactly the same price as a GoE perhaps half the price. So maybe 2k gems.2500 to be generous.The price would obviously have to be higher than you could earn from them, otherwise it would be too easy to make money from them. You would then actually pay for the convenience, which is what you're after, isn't it?The cash shop item would have to compete within the market of map completion selling. What I can earn from them is directly related to their price. As is already the case, the price of the map complete simply gets passed onto the customer. The cost of "convenience" in this case is as of yet uncertain. It's possible that players would pay significantly more for the cash shop item just because it cuts out the middle man of having to buy the map complete from a player. I don't know exactly what the best price would be I imagine that's something Arenanet would have to figure out through a bit of trial and error as they already do with pre existing cash shop offers. They could start with whatever price they want and see what the sales numbers are like and then adjust their prices through "sales" as they already do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just a flesh wound.3589 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 @Israel.7056 said:@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:@Israel.7056 said:@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:@Israel.7056 said:I don't buy them I sell them. People who just buy them would most likely benefit from this idea as well as it would likely increase the overall supply of gen 1 legendaries and thus bring their price down over time. The usual going price for a map complete is anywhere from 500-800g last time I checked so as long as the gem exchange cost is less than that then the prices should come down.@Israel.7056 said:@SkyFallsInThunder.8257 said:So you wanna pay to skip playing the game. Hm...This particular aspect of it and I would gladly pay to do so.More importantly I think a lot of other players would too.What you actually want is a way to pay for skipping the game in order to make more gold faster by crafting and selling more Legendaries. Sir, your suggestion is completely self interested.So what? That doesn't mean it's a bad idea. I happen to be on the production side of things rather than the consumption side what difference does it make?It makes it an idea where you are only considering how to get more gold faster. That makes it a bad reason to suggest as a self interested suggestion like this which is wallet motivated doesn’t care about any harm to the rest of the game as long as the person who suggests it gets richer faster. That line of thinking is a contingent on values that I simply don't share and that you can't objectively prove.You may happen to think that people making more legendaries is bad for the game I do not.EDIT: The point still stands that they're already selling level 80 boosters and waypoint unlock packages so it seems logical to me that they'd be willing to sell heart completion as well. I think a lot of people would be willing to buy them and I think that's ultimately what Arenanet cares about.The problem where the suggestion is purely to make that person more gold faster is that any harm to the game is irrelevant. Harm to the game doesn’t matter to that person because that isn’t a consideration of the suggestion. Yes, it would harm the game for the game to sell map completion in the gem store, no matter how much gold would go into your pocket. (And I doubt you would ever agree, as agreeing would mean less gold for you). Your suggestion was only made to put more gold in your pocket faster and doesn’t care about any harm to the game. I give it two thumbs down. ?? ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menadena.7482 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 @kharmin.7683 said:@Israel.7056 said:I don't buy them I sell them. People who just buy them would most likely benefit from this idea as well as it would likely increase the overall supply of gen 1 legendaries and thus bring their price down over time. The usual going price for a map complete is anywhere from 500-800g last time I checked so as long as the gem exchange cost is less than that then the prices should come down.@Israel.7056 said:My personal motivation is ultimately irrelevant. Some people buy them and some people sell them. Some people do map completes just to sell them to people like me. It's all voluntary interaction and it's all allowed by ANET so what difference does it make?More legendaries in circulation means more legendaries for everyone. That benefits people who want to use them and people who want to sell them.I'd still be able to make money if the price dropped 50 percent sure because I'd make up in volume whatever I lost on each individual sale.The only people who would be hurt in gold terms by more legendaries entering the market are the people who bought a lot of legendaries at their current prices or higher prices in order to try to sell them for more later.Your personal motivations are very much relevant. Besides, I believe that you are mis-reading the market. You wouldn't be able to make up the difference in the price drop by selling in quantity because there would be other players who would be following the same path. By all means, flood the market with legendaries and see how well that works out for everyone.In my opinion, this would also detract from the very definition of a legendary. I would find it hard to see something as unique if everyone had one.You think FPS drops in a boss fight now ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Israel.7056 Posted February 26, 2018 Author Share Posted February 26, 2018 @Just a flesh wound.3589 said:@Israel.7056 said:@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:@Israel.7056 said:@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:@Israel.7056 said:I don't buy them I sell them. People who just buy them would most likely benefit from this idea as well as it would likely increase the overall supply of gen 1 legendaries and thus bring their price down over time. The usual going price for a map complete is anywhere from 500-800g last time I checked so as long as the gem exchange cost is less than that then the prices should come down.@Israel.7056 said:@"SkyFallsInThunder.8257" said:So you wanna pay to skip playing the game. Hm...This particular aspect of it and I would gladly pay to do so.More importantly I think a lot of other players would too.What you actually want is a way to pay for skipping the game in order to make more gold faster by crafting and selling more Legendaries. Sir, your suggestion is completely self interested.So what? That doesn't mean it's a bad idea. I happen to be on the production side of things rather than the consumption side what difference does it make?It makes it an idea where you are only considering how to get more gold faster. That makes it a bad reason to suggest as a self interested suggestion like this which is wallet motivated doesn’t care about any harm to the rest of the game as long as the person who suggests it gets richer faster. That line of thinking is a contingent on values that I simply don't share and that you can't objectively prove.You may happen to think that people making more legendaries is bad for the game I do not.EDIT: The point still stands that they're already selling level 80 boosters and waypoint unlock packages so it seems logical to me that they'd be willing to sell heart completion as well. I think a lot of people would be willing to buy them and I think that's ultimately what Arenanet cares about.The problem where the suggestion is purely to make that person more gold faster is that any harm to the game is irrelevant. Harm to the game doesn’t matter to that person because that isn’t a consideration of the suggestion. Yes, it would harm the game for the game to sell game completion in the gem store, no matter how much gold would go into your pocket. (And I doubt you would ever agree, as agreeing would mean less gold for you). Your suggestion was only made to put more gold in your pocket faster and doesn’t care about any harm to the game. I give it two thumbs down. ?? ?? You don't know what would happen though you're just speculating and you have no data on which to base your speculations and no clear definition of "good for the game."Clearly your concern has something to do with what we might call the "integrity of the game." But then gen 1s have always been tradeable items that anyone could buy with a credit card and yet they're still some of the most sought after items in the game 5 years after launch so perhaps your values are not widely shared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zohane.7208 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 @Israel.7056 said:@Zohane.7208 said:@Israel.7056 said:@Zohane.7208 said:@Israel.7056 said:@"SkyFallsInThunder.8257" said:So you wanna pay to skip playing the game. Hm...This particular aspect of it and I would gladly pay to do so.More importantly I think a lot of other players would too.Ok, let's play the game then...Hearts are, by far, the biggest part of world completion; not having to do them makes world completion a very fast affair, I'll say they could be valued about the same as the 2 gifts of exploration (all the zone completions would cover the value of the other parts).Going rate for one GoE seems to be 400g (taken from another recent forum thread) - 2 GoE would be 800g.Gold->gem conversion is roughly 100g/400 gems.So by that calculation 2 GoE should cost about 3200 gems. Let's round that up and call it 3500 or 4000 gems. I guess that would be a "fair" price for skipping hearts - for ONE character.That would work for me. Although I don't think it would make sense to value them at exactly the same price as a GoE perhaps half the price. So maybe 2k gems.2500 to be generous.The price would obviously have to be higher than you could earn from them, otherwise it would be too easy to make money from them. You would then actually pay for the convenience, which is what you're after, isn't it?The cash shop item would have to compete within the market of map completion selling. What I can earn from them is directly related to their price. As is already the case, the price of the map complete simply gets passed onto the customer. The cost of "convenience" in this case is as of yet uncertain. It's possible that players would pay significantly more for the cash shop item just because it cuts out the middle man of having to buy the map complete from a player. I don't know exactly what the best price would be I imagine that's something Arenanet would have to figure out through a bit of trial and error as they already do with pre existing cash shop offers. They could start with whatever price they want and see what the sales numbers are like and then adjust their prices through "sales" as they already do.Your initial premise was that this was needed in order to not have to go through the hearts for world completion. That would be a convenience you should be willing to pay for. By your latest statement it's actually about making money so that changes your entire proposition. What on earth would make it right to sell an item in the gem store that would allow you to make more money than it cost you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardenwolfe.8590 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 @Zohane.7208 said:Your initial premise was that this was needed in order to not have to go through the hearts for world completion. That would be a convenience you should be willing to pay for. By your latest statement it's actually about making money so that changes your entire proposition. What on earth would make it right to sell an item in the gem store that would allow you to make more money than it cost you?And there it is. /end thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 This was one of the reasons why I was against Anet adding the option to pay to unlock all waypoints. I knew someone would come along as use it as an argument why the rest should be unlocked. If people are actually going to argue for an option to buy an item’s to complete are hearts then I’m going to create a thread for an option to purchase achievement/collection completion. Actually, why stop there. Let’s just make everything in the game purchasable in the store. Why should players have to play the game for things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyT.7192 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 This idea would actually make transmutation charge farming somewhat bearable, +2 thumbs up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Israel.7056 Posted February 26, 2018 Author Share Posted February 26, 2018 @Zohane.7208 said:@Israel.7056 said:@Zohane.7208 said:@Israel.7056 said:@Zohane.7208 said:@Israel.7056 said:@"SkyFallsInThunder.8257" said:So you wanna pay to skip playing the game. Hm...This particular aspect of it and I would gladly pay to do so.More importantly I think a lot of other players would too.Ok, let's play the game then...Hearts are, by far, the biggest part of world completion; not having to do them makes world completion a very fast affair, I'll say they could be valued about the same as the 2 gifts of exploration (all the zone completions would cover the value of the other parts).Going rate for one GoE seems to be 400g (taken from another recent forum thread) - 2 GoE would be 800g.Gold->gem conversion is roughly 100g/400 gems.So by that calculation 2 GoE should cost about 3200 gems. Let's round that up and call it 3500 or 4000 gems. I guess that would be a "fair" price for skipping hearts - for ONE character.That would work for me. Although I don't think it would make sense to value them at exactly the same price as a GoE perhaps half the price. So maybe 2k gems.2500 to be generous.The price would obviously have to be higher than you could earn from them, otherwise it would be too easy to make money from them. You would then actually pay for the convenience, which is what you're after, isn't it?The cash shop item would have to compete within the market of map completion selling. What I can earn from them is directly related to their price. As is already the case, the price of the map complete simply gets passed onto the customer. The cost of "convenience" in this case is as of yet uncertain. It's possible that players would pay significantly more for the cash shop item just because it cuts out the middle man of having to buy the map complete from a player. I don't know exactly what the best price would be I imagine that's something Arenanet would have to figure out through a bit of trial and error as they already do with pre existing cash shop offers. They could start with whatever price they want and see what the sales numbers are like and then adjust their prices through "sales" as they already do.Your initial premise was that this was needed in order to not have to go through the hearts for world completion. That would be a convenience you should be willing to pay for. By your latest statement it's actually about making money so that changes your entire proposition. What on earth would make it right to sell an item in the gem store that would allow you to make more money than it cost you?The initial proposition still stands. I hate doing hearts and I would be willing to pay to skip them. The fact that I would personally make more money in game is ultimately irrelevant to the value of the suggestion. I'm not the only one who hates hearts and would be willing to pay to skip them. What price Arenanet wants to attach to that particular convenience is up to them. I'm going to make money whether it's sold at 2k or 4k just because it removes a massive bottleneck in production. They could start it at 4k and see how many bites they get and then adjust the price as they see fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just a flesh wound.3589 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 @Just a flesh wound.3589 said:@Israel.7056 said:@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:@Israel.7056 said:@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:@Israel.7056 said:I don't buy them I sell them. People who just buy them would most likely benefit from this idea as well as it would likely increase the overall supply of gen 1 legendaries and thus bring their price down over time. The usual going price for a map complete is anywhere from 500-800g last time I checked so as long as the gem exchange cost is less than that then the prices should come down.@Israel.7056 said:@"SkyFallsInThunder.8257" said:So you wanna pay to skip playing the game. Hm...This particular aspect of it and I would gladly pay to do so.More importantly I think a lot of other players would too.What you actually want is a way to pay for skipping the game in order to make more gold faster by crafting and selling more Legendaries. Sir, your suggestion is completely self interested.So what? That doesn't mean it's a bad idea. I happen to be on the production side of things rather than the consumption side what difference does it make?It makes it an idea where you are only considering how to get more gold faster. That makes it a bad reason to suggest as a self interested suggestion like this which is wallet motivated doesn’t care about any harm to the rest of the game as long as the person who suggests it gets richer faster. That line of thinking is a contingent on values that I simply don't share and that you can't objectively prove.You may happen to think that people making more legendaries is bad for the game I do not.EDIT: The point still stands that they're already selling level 80 boosters and waypoint unlock packages so it seems logical to me that they'd be willing to sell heart completion as well. I think a lot of people would be willing to buy them and I think that's ultimately what Arenanet cares about.The problem where the suggestion is purely to make that person more gold faster is that any harm to the game is irrelevant. Harm to the game doesn’t matter to that person because that isn’t a consideration of the suggestion. Yes, it would harm the game for the game to sell game completion in the gem store, no matter how much gold would go into your pocket. (And I doubt you would ever agree, as agreeing would mean less gold for you). Your suggestion was only made to put more gold in your pocket faster and doesn’t care about any harm to the game. I give it two thumbs down. ?? ?? You don't know what would happen though you're just speculating and you have no data on which to base your speculations and no clear definition of "good for the game."Clearly your concern has something to do with what we might call the "integrity of the game." But then gen 1s have always been tradeable items that anyone could buy with a credit card and yet they're still some of the most sought after items in the game 5 years after launch so perhaps your values are not widely shared.Here’s a sample of a bad suggestion to make on the forum. Dear ANet. Please change the game by X so I can make gold faster and easier. Kthanxbai.^ That’s your suggestion in a nutshell. While Gen1 Legendaries are sellable obviously ANet has reconsidered this as Gen2 Legendaries are not. They saw that it wasn’t a good idea for Legendaries to be available as credit card purchases because this cheapened them. Your suggestion would cheapen them further. It is not a good suggestion for the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menadena.7482 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 @Israel.7056 said:@Zohane.7208 said:@Israel.7056 said:@Zohane.7208 said:@Israel.7056 said:@Zohane.7208 said:@Israel.7056 said:@"SkyFallsInThunder.8257" said:So you wanna pay to skip playing the game. Hm...This particular aspect of it and I would gladly pay to do so.More importantly I think a lot of other players would too.Ok, let's play the game then...Hearts are, by far, the biggest part of world completion; not having to do them makes world completion a very fast affair, I'll say they could be valued about the same as the 2 gifts of exploration (all the zone completions would cover the value of the other parts).Going rate for one GoE seems to be 400g (taken from another recent forum thread) - 2 GoE would be 800g.Gold->gem conversion is roughly 100g/400 gems.So by that calculation 2 GoE should cost about 3200 gems. Let's round that up and call it 3500 or 4000 gems. I guess that would be a "fair" price for skipping hearts - for ONE character.That would work for me. Although I don't think it would make sense to value them at exactly the same price as a GoE perhaps half the price. So maybe 2k gems.2500 to be generous.The price would obviously have to be higher than you could earn from them, otherwise it would be too easy to make money from them. You would then actually pay for the convenience, which is what you're after, isn't it?The cash shop item would have to compete within the market of map completion selling. What I can earn from them is directly related to their price. As is already the case, the price of the map complete simply gets passed onto the customer. The cost of "convenience" in this case is as of yet uncertain. It's possible that players would pay significantly more for the cash shop item just because it cuts out the middle man of having to buy the map complete from a player. I don't know exactly what the best price would be I imagine that's something Arenanet would have to figure out through a bit of trial and error as they already do with pre existing cash shop offers. They could start with whatever price they want and see what the sales numbers are like and then adjust their prices through "sales" as they already do.Your initial premise was that this was needed in order to not have to go through the hearts for world completion. That would be a convenience you should be willing to pay for. By your latest statement it's actually about making money so that changes your entire proposition. What on earth would make it right to sell an item in the gem store that would allow you to make more money than it cost you?The initial proposition still stands. I hate doing hearts and I would be willing to pay to skip them. The fact that I would personally make more money in game is ultimately irrelevant to the value of the suggestion. I'm not the only one who hates hearts and would be willing to pay to skip them. What price Arenanet wants to attach to that particular convenience is up to them. I'm going to make money whether it's sold at 2k or 4k just because it removes a massive bottleneck in production. They could start it at 4k and see how many bites they get and then adjust the price as they see fit.No, it is VERY relevant.Say you make 100 gold (that is a random #) per L1 as things stand now after deducting the cost of mats and your time. If they do this and your margin shrinks then you scream that they ruined your business. If they do something on the store to increase your profit OTOH do you really think your competitors will not see the same thing and jump on it?Someone doing this just because they wanted map complete and hated the hearts would not care about profit v loss so yes, that you are doing this in a misguided attempt to maximize returns is VERY relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 @SkyFallsInThunder.8257 said:So you wanna pay to skip playing the game. Hm...People do this every day in raids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kharmin.7683 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 @"Israel.7056" said:I'm going to make money whether it's sold at 2k or 4k just because it removes a massive bottleneck in production. They could start it at 4k and see how many bites they get and then adjust the price as they see fit.Which is why I don't see them doing this. Can one "make money" in game? Sure. Is that the developers' intention when the game is produced? Probably not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 @Zohane.7208 said:@Israel.7056 said:@Zohane.7208 said:@Israel.7056 said:@Zohane.7208 said:@Israel.7056 said:@"SkyFallsInThunder.8257" said:So you wanna pay to skip playing the game. Hm...This particular aspect of it and I would gladly pay to do so.More importantly I think a lot of other players would too.Ok, let's play the game then...Hearts are, by far, the biggest part of world completion; not having to do them makes world completion a very fast affair, I'll say they could be valued about the same as the 2 gifts of exploration (all the zone completions would cover the value of the other parts).Going rate for one GoE seems to be 400g (taken from another recent forum thread) - 2 GoE would be 800g.Gold->gem conversion is roughly 100g/400 gems.So by that calculation 2 GoE should cost about 3200 gems. Let's round that up and call it 3500 or 4000 gems. I guess that would be a "fair" price for skipping hearts - for ONE character.That would work for me. Although I don't think it would make sense to value them at exactly the same price as a GoE perhaps half the price. So maybe 2k gems.2500 to be generous.The price would obviously have to be higher than you could earn from them, otherwise it would be too easy to make money from them. You would then actually pay for the convenience, which is what you're after, isn't it?The cash shop item would have to compete within the market of map completion selling. What I can earn from them is directly related to their price. As is already the case, the price of the map complete simply gets passed onto the customer. The cost of "convenience" in this case is as of yet uncertain. It's possible that players would pay significantly more for the cash shop item just because it cuts out the middle man of having to buy the map complete from a player. I don't know exactly what the best price would be I imagine that's something Arenanet would have to figure out through a bit of trial and error as they already do with pre existing cash shop offers. They could start with whatever price they want and see what the sales numbers are like and then adjust their prices through "sales" as they already do.Your initial premise was that this was needed in order to not have to go through the hearts for world completion. That would be a convenience you should be willing to pay for. By your latest statement it's actually about making money so that changes your entire proposition. What on earth would make it right to sell an item in the gem store that would allow you to make more money than it cost you?This is actually a win/win for anet.They sell him heart unlock.They burn some gold from players through TP taxes.Anet loses nothing, can gain easy revenue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Israel.7056 Posted February 26, 2018 Author Share Posted February 26, 2018 This whole "self interest" thing is a red herring.There are three basic groups here: Group A: produces gen 1 legendaries for sale Group B: buys gen 1 legendaries off the TPAlso there's Group C: Group C are the people who do all the work for their own legendary including their own map completions and never buys anything off the TP or from any other player in order to finish their Gen 1 weapons. Presumably they're a rare breed but I didn't want to leave anyone out.There is overlap between groups A and B but both groups have an interest in this proposed change because both producers and consumers of gen 1 legendaries would presumably benefit. Producers would benefit through the elimination of the heart bottleneck and consumers would benefit from the increased supply of gen 1 legendaries which would almost certainly lower the purchase price of these items over time due to the laws of supply and demand. Group C gets disqualified if they want to retain the "uniqueness" or "legendary" quality of their gen 1 legendaries because that's self interest. They want their items to have prestige value.Then there's Group D : Group D neither produces nor buys gen 1 legendaries and so has no stake in the change either way.If we take the "self interest" argument to its logical conclusion then only Group D should have any say in whether Anet sells heart completions or not but they shouldn't care either way because they neither produce nor consume gen 1 legendaries. But if they don't care either way then they're not going to be posting in this thread or care what Anet does because it doesn't matter to them. So logically speaking anyone posting in this thread has some interest in the outcome either way which means that anyone who posted in this thread would be disqualified for reasons of "self interest."No doubt someone will say "but what's good for the game" is XYZ. Well I think it would be good for the game if players could pay to skip the stuff they find annoying or boring which they already do in many ways whether that's buying raid runs or paying someone else for a gen 1 legendary weapon or buying a level 80 booster or now waypoint unlocks it's all the same thing in my mind and I don't have a problem with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDchiaScrub.3241 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 Idc. Gimmie legendaries for the one game mode that makes use of the stat switching the most. /selfish. D: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just a flesh wound.3589 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 @"Israel.7056" said:Then there's Group D : Group D neither produces nor buys gen 1 legendaries and so has no stake in the change either way.If we take the "self interest" argument to its logical conclusion then only Group D should have any say in whether Anet sells heart completions or not but they shouldn't care either way because they neither produce nor consume gen 1 legendaries. But if they don't care either way then they're not going to be posting in this thread or care what Anet does because it doesn't matter to them. So logically speaking anyone posting in this thread has some interest in the outcome either way which means that anyone who posted in this thread would be disqualified for reasons of "self interest."I neither produce nor buy Legendaries. I have no Legendaries at all, either Gen1 or Gen2, even though I’ve played this game since beta. Therefore by your logic and by your words I have the only say in whether Anet sells heart completions or not, and you do not. /grin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Israel.7056 Posted February 26, 2018 Author Share Posted February 26, 2018 @Just a flesh wound.3589 said:@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:@Israel.7056 said:@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:@Israel.7056 said:@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:@Israel.7056 said:I don't buy them I sell them. People who just buy them would most likely benefit from this idea as well as it would likely increase the overall supply of gen 1 legendaries and thus bring their price down over time. The usual going price for a map complete is anywhere from 500-800g last time I checked so as long as the gem exchange cost is less than that then the prices should come down.@Israel.7056 said:@"SkyFallsInThunder.8257" said:So you wanna pay to skip playing the game. Hm...This particular aspect of it and I would gladly pay to do so.More importantly I think a lot of other players would too.What you actually want is a way to pay for skipping the game in order to make more gold faster by crafting and selling more Legendaries. Sir, your suggestion is completely self interested.So what? That doesn't mean it's a bad idea. I happen to be on the production side of things rather than the consumption side what difference does it make?It makes it an idea where you are only considering how to get more gold faster. That makes it a bad reason to suggest as a self interested suggestion like this which is wallet motivated doesn’t care about any harm to the rest of the game as long as the person who suggests it gets richer faster. That line of thinking is a contingent on values that I simply don't share and that you can't objectively prove.You may happen to think that people making more legendaries is bad for the game I do not.EDIT: The point still stands that they're already selling level 80 boosters and waypoint unlock packages so it seems logical to me that they'd be willing to sell heart completion as well. I think a lot of people would be willing to buy them and I think that's ultimately what Arenanet cares about.The problem where the suggestion is purely to make that person more gold faster is that any harm to the game is irrelevant. Harm to the game doesn’t matter to that person because that isn’t a consideration of the suggestion. Yes, it would harm the game for the game to sell game completion in the gem store, no matter how much gold would go into your pocket. (And I doubt you would ever agree, as agreeing would mean less gold for you). Your suggestion was only made to put more gold in your pocket faster and doesn’t care about any harm to the game. I give it two thumbs down. ?? ?? You don't know what would happen though you're just speculating and you have no data on which to base your speculations and no clear definition of "good for the game."Clearly your concern has something to do with what we might call the "integrity of the game." But then gen 1s have always been tradeable items that anyone could buy with a credit card and yet they're still some of the most sought after items in the game 5 years after launch so perhaps your values are not widely shared.Here’s a sample of a bad suggestion to make on the forum. Dear ANet. Please change the game by X so I can make gold faster and easier. Kthanxbai.^ That’s your suggestion in a nutshell. While Gen1 Legendaries are sellable obviously ANet has reconsidered this as Gen2 Legendaries are not. They saw that it wasn’t a good idea for Legendaries to be available as credit card purchases because this cheapened them. Your suggestion would cheapen them further. It is not a good suggestion for the game. First of all I don't see why that's a formula for a bad suggestion. It could be a very good suggestion that just happens to make someone gold, who cares?Secondly, they've already been cheapened. They can't get more cheapened. People have been buying them with credit cards since launch. They've never had any "uniqueness" or "legendariness" or prestige value and yet people continue to this very day to pay thousands of gold for them on the trading post. Clearly they can't be that bad for the game if they're still some of the most valuable items in existence. Perhaps not everyone is a do it yourself purist like yourself.Here's more food for thought: If they suddenly made gen 2s tradeable people would probably pay thousands of gold for them without a second thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Israel.7056 Posted February 26, 2018 Author Share Posted February 26, 2018 @Just a flesh wound.3589 said:@"Israel.7056" said:Then there's Group D : Group D neither produces nor buys gen 1 legendaries and so has no stake in the change either way.If we take the "self interest" argument to its logical conclusion then only Group D should have any say in whether Anet sells heart completions or not but they shouldn't care either way because they neither produce nor consume gen 1 legendaries. But if they don't care either way then they're not going to be posting in this thread or care what Anet does because it doesn't matter to them. So logically speaking anyone posting in this thread has some interest in the outcome either way which means that anyone who posted in this thread would be disqualified for reasons of "self interest."I neither produce nor buy Legendaries. I have no Legendaries at all, either Gen1 or Gen2, even though I’ve played this game since beta. Therefore by your logic and by your words I have the only say in whether Anet sells heart completions or not, and you do not. /grin. No that's your logic. But if what you're saying is true then you have no stake in this either way so you have no reason to care what happens because it doesn't effect you at all. So why waste everyone's time arguing about something that doesn't effect you in the slightest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just a flesh wound.3589 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 @Israel.7056 said:@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:@Israel.7056 said:@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:@Israel.7056 said:@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:@Israel.7056 said:I don't buy them I sell them. People who just buy them would most likely benefit from this idea as well as it would likely increase the overall supply of gen 1 legendaries and thus bring their price down over time. The usual going price for a map complete is anywhere from 500-800g last time I checked so as long as the gem exchange cost is less than that then the prices should come down.@Israel.7056 said:@"SkyFallsInThunder.8257" said:So you wanna pay to skip playing the game. Hm...This particular aspect of it and I would gladly pay to do so.More importantly I think a lot of other players would too.What you actually want is a way to pay for skipping the game in order to make more gold faster by crafting and selling more Legendaries. Sir, your suggestion is completely self interested.So what? That doesn't mean it's a bad idea. I happen to be on the production side of things rather than the consumption side what difference does it make?It makes it an idea where you are only considering how to get more gold faster. That makes it a bad reason to suggest as a self interested suggestion like this which is wallet motivated doesn’t care about any harm to the rest of the game as long as the person who suggests it gets richer faster. That line of thinking is a contingent on values that I simply don't share and that you can't objectively prove.You may happen to think that people making more legendaries is bad for the game I do not.EDIT: The point still stands that they're already selling level 80 boosters and waypoint unlock packages so it seems logical to me that they'd be willing to sell heart completion as well. I think a lot of people would be willing to buy them and I think that's ultimately what Arenanet cares about.The problem where the suggestion is purely to make that person more gold faster is that any harm to the game is irrelevant. Harm to the game doesn’t matter to that person because that isn’t a consideration of the suggestion. Yes, it would harm the game for the game to sell game completion in the gem store, no matter how much gold would go into your pocket. (And I doubt you would ever agree, as agreeing would mean less gold for you). Your suggestion was only made to put more gold in your pocket faster and doesn’t care about any harm to the game. I give it two thumbs down. ?? ?? You don't know what would happen though you're just speculating and you have no data on which to base your speculations and no clear definition of "good for the game."Clearly your concern has something to do with what we might call the "integrity of the game." But then gen 1s have always been tradeable items that anyone could buy with a credit card and yet they're still some of the most sought after items in the game 5 years after launch so perhaps your values are not widely shared.Here’s a sample of a bad suggestion to make on the forum. Dear ANet. Please change the game by X so I can make gold faster and easier. Kthanxbai.^ That’s your suggestion in a nutshell. While Gen1 Legendaries are sellable obviously ANet has reconsidered this as Gen2 Legendaries are not. They saw that it wasn’t a good idea for Legendaries to be available as credit card purchases because this cheapened them. Your suggestion would cheapen them further. It is not a good suggestion for the game. First of all I don't see why that's a formula for a bad suggestion. It could be a very good suggestion that just happens to make someone gold, who cares?Secondly, they've already been cheapened. They can't get more cheapened. People have been buying them with credit cards since launch. They've never had any "uniqueness" or "legendariness" or prestige value and yet people continue to this very day to pay thousands of gold for them on the trading post. Clearly they can't be that bad for the game if they're still some of the most valuable items in existence. Perhaps not everyone is a do it yourself purist like yourself.Here's more food for thought: If they suddenly made gen 2s tradeable people would probably pay thousands of gold for them without a second thought.And well they might. That doesn’t mean that people opening up their wallet to buy a Legendary is a good idea. Since ANet has removed the option of buying Gen2 Legendaries obviously they agree that selling Legendaries on the trading post is not good for the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman.4280 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 Eh no. Hearts are like quests in other games. So essentially you want the benefits of doing the quests without doing the quests.That's not how RPG's work. Maybe find a different style of game that suits your needs.MMORPG's are already dumbed down and easy enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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