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This Game Desperately Needs An Item for Skipping Hearts!!!


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@Israel.7056 said:

@Israel.7056 said:Then there's Group D :
Group D neither produces nor buys gen 1 legendaries and so has no stake in the change either way
.If we take the "self interest" argument to its logical conclusion then
only Group D should have any say in whether Anet sells heart completions or not
but they shouldn't care either way because they neither produce nor consume gen 1 legendaries. But if they don't care either way then they're not going to be posting in this thread or care what Anet does because it doesn't matter to them. So logically speaking anyone posting in this thread has some interest in the outcome either way which means that anyone who posted in this thread would be disqualified for reasons of "self interest."

I neither produce nor buy Legendaries. I have no Legendaries at all, either Gen1 or Gen2, even though I’ve played this game since beta. Therefore by your logic and by your words I have the only say in whether Anet sells heart completions or not, and you do not.

/grin.

No that's your logic. But if what you're saying is true then you have no stake in this either way so you have no reason to care what happens because it doesn't effect you at all. So why waste everyone's time arguing about something that doesn't effect you in the slightest?

A suggestion that adversely affects the game I play does affect me. A suggestion which is solely made to put more gold in someone’s pocket and would cheapen Gen1 Legendaries (which then adversely affects the core game) also does affect me. Therefore, I can give my opinion that this is a poorly thought out, self interested suggestion that does not consider any harmful effects and is not good for the game.

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@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:

@Israel.7056 said:I don't buy them
I sell them
. People who just buy them would most likely benefit from this idea as well as it would likely increase the overall supply of gen 1 legendaries and thus bring their price down over time. The usual going price for a map complete is anywhere from 500-800g last time I checked so as long as the gem exchange cost is less than that then the prices should come down.

@"SkyFallsInThunder.8257" said:So you wanna pay to skip playing the game. Hm...

This particular aspect of it and I would gladly pay to do so.

More importantly I think a lot of other players would too.

What you actually want is a way to pay for skipping the game in order to make more gold faster by crafting and selling more Legendaries.

Sir, your suggestion is completely self interested.

So what? That doesn't mean it's a bad idea. I happen to be on the production side of things rather than the consumption side what difference does it make?

It makes it an idea where you are only considering how to get more gold faster. That makes it a bad reason to suggest as a self interested suggestion like this which is wallet motivated doesn’t care about any harm to the rest of the game as long as the person who suggests it gets richer faster.

That line of thinking is a contingent on values that I simply don't share and that you can't objectively prove.

You may happen to think that people making more legendaries is bad for the game I do not.

EDIT: The point still stands that they're already selling level 80 boosters and waypoint unlock packages so it seems logical to me that they'd be willing to sell heart completion as well. I think a lot of people would be willing to buy them and I think that's ultimately what Arenanet cares about.

The problem where the suggestion is purely to make that person more gold faster is that any harm to the game is irrelevant. Harm to the game doesn’t matter to that person because that isn’t a consideration of the suggestion. Yes, it would harm the game for the game to sell game completion in the gem store, no matter how much gold would go into your pocket. (And I doubt you would ever agree, as agreeing would mean less gold for you).

Your suggestion was only made to put more gold in your pocket faster and doesn’t care about any harm to the game. I give it two thumbs down. ?? ??

You don't know what would happen though you're just speculating and you have no data on which to base your speculations and no clear definition of "good for the game."

Clearly your concern has something to do with what we might call the "integrity of the game." But then gen 1s have always been tradeable items that anyone could buy with a credit card and yet they're still some of the most sought after items in the game 5 years after launch so perhaps your values are not widely shared.

Here’s a sample of a bad suggestion to make on the forum.

Dear ANet. Please change the game by X so I can make gold faster and easier. Kthanxbai.

^ That’s your suggestion in a nutshell.

While Gen1 Legendaries are sellable obviously ANet has reconsidered this as Gen2 Legendaries are not. They saw that it wasn’t a good idea for Legendaries to be available as credit card purchases because this cheapened them. Your suggestion would cheapen them further. It is not a good suggestion for the game.

First of all I don't see why that's a formula for a bad suggestion. It could be a very good suggestion that just happens to make someone gold, who cares?

Secondly, they've already been cheapened. They can't get more cheapened. People have been buying them with credit cards since launch. They've never had any "uniqueness" or "legendariness" or prestige value and yet people continue to this very day to pay thousands of gold for them on the trading post. Clearly they can't be that bad for the game if they're still some of the most valuable items in existence. Perhaps not everyone is a do it yourself purist like yourself.

Here's more food for thought:
If they suddenly made gen 2s tradeable people would probably pay thousands of gold for them without a second thought.

And well they might. That doesn’t mean that people opening up their wallet to buy a Legendary is a good idea. Since ANet has removed the option of buying Gen2 Legendaries obviously they agree that selling Legendaries on the trading post is not good for the game.

Then why allow gen 1 legendaries to be sold at all? Wouldn't it be more consistent with that line of thinking if they took the gen 1s off the trading post by making them completely account bound?

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@Israel.7056 said:

@Israel.7056 said:I don't buy them
I sell them
. People who just buy them would most likely benefit from this idea as well as it would likely increase the overall supply of gen 1 legendaries and thus bring their price down over time. The usual going price for a map complete is anywhere from 500-800g last time I checked so as long as the gem exchange cost is less than that then the prices should come down.

@"SkyFallsInThunder.8257" said:So you wanna pay to skip playing the game. Hm...

This particular aspect of it and I would gladly pay to do so.

More importantly I think a lot of other players would too.

What you actually want is a way to pay for skipping the game in order to make more gold faster by crafting and selling more Legendaries.

Sir, your suggestion is completely self interested.

So what? That doesn't mean it's a bad idea. I happen to be on the production side of things rather than the consumption side what difference does it make?

It makes it an idea where you are only considering how to get more gold faster. That makes it a bad reason to suggest as a self interested suggestion like this which is wallet motivated doesn’t care about any harm to the rest of the game as long as the person who suggests it gets richer faster.

That line of thinking is a contingent on values that I simply don't share and that you can't objectively prove.

You may happen to think that people making more legendaries is bad for the game I do not.

EDIT: The point still stands that they're already selling level 80 boosters and waypoint unlock packages so it seems logical to me that they'd be willing to sell heart completion as well. I think a lot of people would be willing to buy them and I think that's ultimately what Arenanet cares about.

The problem where the suggestion is purely to make that person more gold faster is that any harm to the game is irrelevant. Harm to the game doesn’t matter to that person because that isn’t a consideration of the suggestion. Yes, it would harm the game for the game to sell game completion in the gem store, no matter how much gold would go into your pocket. (And I doubt you would ever agree, as agreeing would mean less gold for you).

Your suggestion was only made to put more gold in your pocket faster and doesn’t care about any harm to the game. I give it two thumbs down. ?? ??

You don't know what would happen though you're just speculating and you have no data on which to base your speculations and no clear definition of "good for the game."

Clearly your concern has something to do with what we might call the "integrity of the game." But then gen 1s have always been tradeable items that anyone could buy with a credit card and yet they're still some of the most sought after items in the game 5 years after launch so perhaps your values are not widely shared.

Here’s a sample of a bad suggestion to make on the forum.

Dear ANet. Please change the game by X so I can make gold faster and easier. Kthanxbai.

^ That’s your suggestion in a nutshell.

While Gen1 Legendaries are sellable obviously ANet has reconsidered this as Gen2 Legendaries are not. They saw that it wasn’t a good idea for Legendaries to be available as credit card purchases because this cheapened them. Your suggestion would cheapen them further. It is not a good suggestion for the game.

First of all I don't see why that's a formula for a bad suggestion. It could be a very good suggestion that just happens to make someone gold, who cares?

Secondly, they've already been cheapened. They can't get more cheapened. People have been buying them with credit cards since launch. They've never had any "uniqueness" or "legendariness" or prestige value and yet people continue to this very day to pay thousands of gold for them on the trading post. Clearly they can't be that bad for the game if they're still some of the most valuable items in existence. Perhaps not everyone is a do it yourself purist like yourself.

Here's more food for thought:
If they suddenly made gen 2s tradeable people would probably pay thousands of gold for them without a second thought.

And well they might. That doesn’t mean that people opening up their wallet to buy a Legendary is a good idea. Since ANet has removed the option of buying Gen2 Legendaries obviously they agree that selling Legendaries on the trading post is not good for the game.

Then why allow gen 1 legendaries to be sold at all? Wouldn't it be more consistent with that line of thinking if they took the gen 1s off the trading post by making them completely account bound?

Yes. However that horse is already out of the barn. It’s too late now as too many people have made and sold Gen1 Legendaries. However that does not mean they should compound their initial error of making Gen1 Legendaries sellable by selling map completion in the gem store to cheapen them even further.

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@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:

@Israel.7056 said:Then there's Group D :
Group D neither produces nor buys gen 1 legendaries and so has no stake in the change either way
.If we take the "self interest" argument to its logical conclusion then
only Group D should have any say in whether Anet sells heart completions or not
but they shouldn't care either way because they neither produce nor consume gen 1 legendaries. But if they don't care either way then they're not going to be posting in this thread or care what Anet does because it doesn't matter to them. So logically speaking anyone posting in this thread has some interest in the outcome either way which means that anyone who posted in this thread would be disqualified for reasons of "self interest."

I neither produce nor buy Legendaries. I have no Legendaries at all, either Gen1 or Gen2, even though I’ve played this game since beta. Therefore by your logic and by your words I have the only say in whether Anet sells heart completions or not, and you do not.

/grin.

No that's your logic. But if what you're saying is true then you have no stake in this either way so you have no reason to care what happens because it doesn't effect you at all. So why waste everyone's time arguing about something that doesn't effect you in the slightest?

A suggestion that adversely affects the game I play does affect me. A suggestion which is solely made to put more gold in someone’s pocket and would cheapen Gen1 Legendaries (which then adversely affects the core game) also does affect me. Therefore, I can give my opinion that this is a poorly thought out, self interested suggestion that does not consider any harmful effects and is not good for the game.

You can give your opinion sure but no one with an actual stake in the issue has any reason to consider it which is only fair because by your logic anyone with a direct stake in the outcome is ignored by you for reasons of "self interest."

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@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:

@Israel.7056 said:I don't buy them
I sell them
. People who just buy them would most likely benefit from this idea as well as it would likely increase the overall supply of gen 1 legendaries and thus bring their price down over time. The usual going price for a map complete is anywhere from 500-800g last time I checked so as long as the gem exchange cost is less than that then the prices should come down.

@"SkyFallsInThunder.8257" said:So you wanna pay to skip playing the game. Hm...

This particular aspect of it and I would gladly pay to do so.

More importantly I think a lot of other players would too.

What you actually want is a way to pay for skipping the game in order to make more gold faster by crafting and selling more Legendaries.

Sir, your suggestion is completely self interested.

So what? That doesn't mean it's a bad idea. I happen to be on the production side of things rather than the consumption side what difference does it make?

It makes it an idea where you are only considering how to get more gold faster. That makes it a bad reason to suggest as a self interested suggestion like this which is wallet motivated doesn’t care about any harm to the rest of the game as long as the person who suggests it gets richer faster.

That line of thinking is a contingent on values that I simply don't share and that you can't objectively prove.

You may happen to think that people making more legendaries is bad for the game I do not.

EDIT: The point still stands that they're already selling level 80 boosters and waypoint unlock packages so it seems logical to me that they'd be willing to sell heart completion as well. I think a lot of people would be willing to buy them and I think that's ultimately what Arenanet cares about.

The problem where the suggestion is purely to make that person more gold faster is that any harm to the game is irrelevant. Harm to the game doesn’t matter to that person because that isn’t a consideration of the suggestion. Yes, it would harm the game for the game to sell game completion in the gem store, no matter how much gold would go into your pocket. (And I doubt you would ever agree, as agreeing would mean less gold for you).

Your suggestion was only made to put more gold in your pocket faster and doesn’t care about any harm to the game. I give it two thumbs down. ?? ??

You don't know what would happen though you're just speculating and you have no data on which to base your speculations and no clear definition of "good for the game."

Clearly your concern has something to do with what we might call the "integrity of the game." But then gen 1s have always been tradeable items that anyone could buy with a credit card and yet they're still some of the most sought after items in the game 5 years after launch so perhaps your values are not widely shared.

Here’s a sample of a bad suggestion to make on the forum.

Dear ANet. Please change the game by X so I can make gold faster and easier. Kthanxbai.

^ That’s your suggestion in a nutshell.

While Gen1 Legendaries are sellable obviously ANet has reconsidered this as Gen2 Legendaries are not. They saw that it wasn’t a good idea for Legendaries to be available as credit card purchases because this cheapened them. Your suggestion would cheapen them further. It is not a good suggestion for the game.

First of all I don't see why that's a formula for a bad suggestion. It could be a very good suggestion that just happens to make someone gold, who cares?

Secondly, they've already been cheapened. They can't get more cheapened. People have been buying them with credit cards since launch. They've never had any "uniqueness" or "legendariness" or prestige value and yet people continue to this very day to pay thousands of gold for them on the trading post. Clearly they can't be that bad for the game if they're still some of the most valuable items in existence. Perhaps not everyone is a do it yourself purist like yourself.

Here's more food for thought:
If they suddenly made gen 2s tradeable people would probably pay thousands of gold for them without a second thought.

And well they might. That doesn’t mean that people opening up their wallet to buy a Legendary is a good idea. Since ANet has removed the option of buying Gen2 Legendaries obviously they agree that selling Legendaries on the trading post is not good for the game.

Then why allow gen 1 legendaries to be sold at all? Wouldn't it be more consistent with that line of thinking if they took the gen 1s off the trading post by making them completely account bound?

Yes. However that horse is already out of the barn. It’s too late now as too many people have made and sold Gen1 Legendaries. However that does not mean they should compound their initial error of making Gen1 Legendaries sellable by selling map completion in the gem store to cheapen them even further.

I honestly don't think anyone will care I think people will keep paying for them like they always have. You might see them as cheapened but who cares? You don't even buy them.

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@Israel.7056 said:

@Israel.7056 said:Then there's Group D :
Group D neither produces nor buys gen 1 legendaries and so has no stake in the change either way
.If we take the "self interest" argument to its logical conclusion then
only Group D should have any say in whether Anet sells heart completions or not
but they shouldn't care either way because they neither produce nor consume gen 1 legendaries. But if they don't care either way then they're not going to be posting in this thread or care what Anet does because it doesn't matter to them. So logically speaking anyone posting in this thread has some interest in the outcome either way which means that anyone who posted in this thread would be disqualified for reasons of "self interest."

I neither produce nor buy Legendaries. I have no Legendaries at all, either Gen1 or Gen2, even though I’ve played this game since beta. Therefore by your logic and by your words I have the only say in whether Anet sells heart completions or not, and you do not.

/grin.

No that's your logic. But if what you're saying is true then you have no stake in this either way so you have no reason to care what happens because it doesn't effect you at all. So why waste everyone's time arguing about something that doesn't effect you in the slightest?

A suggestion that adversely affects the game I play does affect me. A suggestion which is solely made to put more gold in someone’s pocket and would cheapen Gen1 Legendaries (which then adversely affects the core game) also does affect me. Therefore, I can give my opinion that this is a poorly thought out, self interested suggestion that does not consider any harmful effects and is not good for the game.

You can give your opinion sure but no one with an actual stake in the issue has any reason to consider it which is only fair because by your logic anyone with a direct stake in the outcome is ignored by you for reasons of "self interest."

.

Then there's Group D : Group D neither produces nor buys gen 1 legendaries and so has no stake in the change either way.If we take the "self interest" argument to its logical conclusion then only Group D should have any say in whether Anet sells heart completions or not

Ahhhh, but you already said that only group D (people like me) should have any say in this matter, so whether or not you ignore me is irrelevant as you have no say.

/grin

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@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:

@Israel.7056 said:Then there's Group D :
Group D neither produces nor buys gen 1 legendaries and so has no stake in the change either way
.If we take the "self interest" argument to its logical conclusion then
only Group D should have any say in whether Anet sells heart completions or not
but they shouldn't care either way because they neither produce nor consume gen 1 legendaries. But if they don't care either way then they're not going to be posting in this thread or care what Anet does because it doesn't matter to them. So logically speaking anyone posting in this thread has some interest in the outcome either way which means that anyone who posted in this thread would be disqualified for reasons of "self interest."

I neither produce nor buy Legendaries. I have no Legendaries at all, either Gen1 or Gen2, even though I’ve played this game since beta. Therefore by your logic and by your words I have the only say in whether Anet sells heart completions or not, and you do not.

/grin.

No that's your logic. But if what you're saying is true then you have no stake in this either way so you have no reason to care what happens because it doesn't effect you at all. So why waste everyone's time arguing about something that doesn't effect you in the slightest?

A suggestion that adversely affects the game I play does affect me. A suggestion which is solely made to put more gold in someone’s pocket and would cheapen Gen1 Legendaries (which then adversely affects the core game) also does affect me. Therefore, I can give my opinion that this is a poorly thought out, self interested suggestion that does not consider any harmful effects and is not good for the game.

You can give your opinion sure but no one with an actual stake in the issue has any reason to consider it which is only fair because by your logic anyone with a direct stake in the outcome is ignored by you for reasons of "self interest."

.

Then there's Group D :
Group D neither produces nor buys gen 1 legendaries and so has no stake in the change either way
.If we take the "self interest" argument to its logical conclusion then
only Group D should have any say in whether Anet sells heart completions or not

Ahhhh, but you already said that only group D (people like me) should have any say in this matter, so whether or not you ignore me is irrelevant as you have no say.

/grin

No I said that that was the logical implication of the basic premise of your argument. I don't personally agree with your premise.

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@Israel.7056 said:

@Israel.7056 said:Then there's Group D :
Group D neither produces nor buys gen 1 legendaries and so has no stake in the change either way
.If we take the "self interest" argument to its logical conclusion then
only Group D should have any say in whether Anet sells heart completions or not
but they shouldn't care either way because they neither produce nor consume gen 1 legendaries. But if they don't care either way then they're not going to be posting in this thread or care what Anet does because it doesn't matter to them. So logically speaking anyone posting in this thread has some interest in the outcome either way which means that anyone who posted in this thread would be disqualified for reasons of "self interest."

I neither produce nor buy Legendaries. I have no Legendaries at all, either Gen1 or Gen2, even though I’ve played this game since beta. Therefore by your logic and by your words I have the only say in whether Anet sells heart completions or not, and you do not.

/grin.

No that's your logic. But if what you're saying is true then you have no stake in this either way so you have no reason to care what happens because it doesn't effect you at all. So why waste everyone's time arguing about something that doesn't effect you in the slightest?

A suggestion that adversely affects the game I play does affect me. A suggestion which is solely made to put more gold in someone’s pocket and would cheapen Gen1 Legendaries (which then adversely affects the core game) also does affect me. Therefore, I can give my opinion that this is a poorly thought out, self interested suggestion that does not consider any harmful effects and is not good for the game.

You can give your opinion sure but no one with an actual stake in the issue has any reason to consider it which is only fair because by your logic anyone with a direct stake in the outcome is ignored by you for reasons of "self interest."

.

Then there's Group D :
Group D neither produces nor buys gen 1 legendaries and so has no stake in the change either way
.If we take the "self interest" argument to its logical conclusion then
only Group D should have any say in whether Anet sells heart completions or not

Ahhhh, but you already said that only group D (people like me) should have any say in this matter, so whether or not you ignore me is irrelevant as you have no say.

/grin

No I said that that was the logical implication of the basic premise of your argument. I don't personally agree with your premise.

I said that people whose suggestion is to put more gold in their wallet faster have a reason to ignore all damage their suggestion would do to the game, as acknowledging that their suggestion hurts the game would impact their future increased income. There’s a reason why people in real life who would benefit financially from a suggestion to others are limited by laws from doing so. Obviously the game can’t limit suggestions from people who stand to make increased gold from it but that doesn’t mean that your suggestion made to improve your income is a good one.

I don't personally agree with your premise

Not surprising, since agreeing would decrease the income you hope to make.

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@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:

@Israel.7056 said:Then there's Group D :
Group D neither produces nor buys gen 1 legendaries and so has no stake in the change either way
.If we take the "self interest" argument to its logical conclusion then
only Group D should have any say in whether Anet sells heart completions or not
but they shouldn't care either way because they neither produce nor consume gen 1 legendaries. But if they don't care either way then they're not going to be posting in this thread or care what Anet does because it doesn't matter to them. So logically speaking anyone posting in this thread has some interest in the outcome either way which means that anyone who posted in this thread would be disqualified for reasons of "self interest."

I neither produce nor buy Legendaries. I have no Legendaries at all, either Gen1 or Gen2, even though I’ve played this game since beta. Therefore by your logic and by your words I have the only say in whether Anet sells heart completions or not, and you do not.

/grin.

No that's your logic. But if what you're saying is true then you have no stake in this either way so you have no reason to care what happens because it doesn't effect you at all. So why waste everyone's time arguing about something that doesn't effect you in the slightest?

A suggestion that adversely affects the game I play does affect me. A suggestion which is solely made to put more gold in someone’s pocket and would cheapen Gen1 Legendaries (which then adversely affects the core game) also does affect me. Therefore, I can give my opinion that this is a poorly thought out, self interested suggestion that does not consider any harmful effects and is not good for the game.

You can give your opinion sure but no one with an actual stake in the issue has any reason to consider it which is only fair because by your logic anyone with a direct stake in the outcome is ignored by you for reasons of "self interest."

.

Then there's Group D :
Group D neither produces nor buys gen 1 legendaries and so has no stake in the change either way
.If we take the "self interest" argument to its logical conclusion then
only Group D should have any say in whether Anet sells heart completions or not

Ahhhh, but you already said that only group D (people like me) should have any say in this matter, so whether or not you ignore me is irrelevant as you have no say.

/grin

No I said that that was the logical implication of the basic premise of your argument. I don't personally agree with your premise.

I said that people whose suggestion is to put more gold in their wallet faster have a reason to ignore all damage their suggestion would do to the game, as acknowledging that their suggestion hurts the game would impact their future increased income. There’s a reason why people in real life who would benefit financially from a suggestion to others are limited by laws from doing so. Obviously the game can’t limit suggestions from people who stand to make increased gold from it but that doesn’t mean that your suggestion made to improve your income is a good one.

I don't personally agree with your premise

Not surprising, since agreeing would decrease the income you hope to make.

I don't agree with the premise because the logical implications of it are patently absurd.

One could take the argument one step further and argue that you yourself should be disqualified from consideration because you care about the game which means you have an interest in the outcome however tangential.

It makes no sense to disregard anyone's opinion purely on the basis of perceived "self interest" because if one applies that principle consistently then no one who has a personal stake in anything can ever be taken seriously on topics that concern those things and that is insanity.

There are no disinterested parties here. Truly disinterested parties don't play the game or participate on the forums. If you play the game you have a stake in the outcome just as I do, however tangential it may be. You're merely arguing about the intangibles of the game like the aesthetics of cash shop items and "how much stuff means to people" or "what's good for the game" whereas I am more focused on the practical things like the process of doing hearts in the game. But we both have an obvious interest in this or else you wouldn't even be here so let's stop pretending like I'm the only one with an interest in this.

My suggestion is a good suggestion because it will sell and people will appreciate it. Hearts are boring and I know from years of playing this game that I'm very much not alone in this opinion. Clearly ANET doesn't have a problem selling progress in principle so I think this would be a fine addition to waypoint unlocks and level 80 boosters. PEOPLE WILL PAY FOR THIS ANET IF YOURE READING.

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You cannot possibly speak for the majority for only ANet knows the true number of players. Yes, you may share in your opinion with others but to posit that those who don't participate in the forums are disinterested is hyperbole. I know that the majority of my guild doesn't come here and I am confident that they would have an opinion counter to yours.

I wish you luck on your quest (pun intended!). Keep believing that your suggestion is great; I happen to disagree. You are certainly passionate enough about it.

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@kharmin.7683 said:You cannot possibly speak for the majority for only ANet knows the true number of players. Yes, you may share in your opinion with others but to posit that those who don't participate in the forums are disinterested is hyperbole. I know that the majority of my guild doesn't come here and I am confident that they would have an opinion counter to yours.

I wish you luck on your quest (pun intended!). Keep believing that your suggestion is great; I happen to disagree. You are certainly passionate enough about it.

The point was that people who post are most certainly not disinterested parties. It's true I don't have polling data on this but I think it'd be worth trying to see if people buy it. I think they will.

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@Israel.7056 said:

@Israel.7056 said:Then there's Group D :
Group D neither produces nor buys gen 1 legendaries and so has no stake in the change either way
.If we take the "self interest" argument to its logical conclusion then
only Group D should have any say in whether Anet sells heart completions or not
but they shouldn't care either way because they neither produce nor consume gen 1 legendaries. But if they don't care either way then they're not going to be posting in this thread or care what Anet does because it doesn't matter to them. So logically speaking anyone posting in this thread has some interest in the outcome either way which means that anyone who posted in this thread would be disqualified for reasons of "self interest."

I neither produce nor buy Legendaries. I have no Legendaries at all, either Gen1 or Gen2, even though I’ve played this game since beta. Therefore by your logic and by your words I have the only say in whether Anet sells heart completions or not, and you do not.

/grin.

No that's your logic. But if what you're saying is true then you have no stake in this either way so you have no reason to care what happens because it doesn't effect you at all. So why waste everyone's time arguing about something that doesn't effect you in the slightest?

A suggestion that adversely affects the game I play does affect me. A suggestion which is solely made to put more gold in someone’s pocket and would cheapen Gen1 Legendaries (which then adversely affects the core game) also does affect me. Therefore, I can give my opinion that this is a poorly thought out, self interested suggestion that does not consider any harmful effects and is not good for the game.

You can give your opinion sure but no one with an actual stake in the issue has any reason to consider it which is only fair because by your logic anyone with a direct stake in the outcome is ignored by you for reasons of "self interest."

.

Then there's Group D :
Group D neither produces nor buys gen 1 legendaries and so has no stake in the change either way
.If we take the "self interest" argument to its logical conclusion then
only Group D should have any say in whether Anet sells heart completions or not

Ahhhh, but you already said that only group D (people like me) should have any say in this matter, so whether or not you ignore me is irrelevant as you have no say.

/grin

No I said that that was the logical implication of the basic premise of your argument. I don't personally agree with your premise.

I said that people whose suggestion is to put more gold in their wallet faster have a reason to ignore all damage their suggestion would do to the game, as acknowledging that their suggestion hurts the game would impact their future increased income. There’s a reason why people in real life who would benefit financially from a suggestion to others are limited by laws from doing so. Obviously the game can’t limit suggestions from people who stand to make increased gold from it but that doesn’t mean that your suggestion made to improve your income is a good one.

I don't personally agree with your premise

Not surprising, since agreeing would decrease the income you hope to make.

I don't agree with the premise because the logical implications of it are patently absurd.

One could take the argument one step further and argue that you yourself should be disqualified from consideration because you care about the game which means you have an interest in the outcome however tangential.

It makes no sense to disregard anyone's opinion purely on the basis of perceived "self interest" because if one applies that principle consistently then no one who has a personal stake in anything can ever be taken seriously on topics that concern those things and that is insanity.

There are no disinterested parties here. Truly disinterested parties don't play the game or participate on the forums. If you play the game you have a stake in the outcome just as I do, however tangential it may be. You're merely arguing about the intangibles of the game like the aesthetics of cash shop items and "how much stuff means to people" or "what's good for the game" whereas I am more focused on the practical things like the process of doing hearts in the game. But we both have an obvious interest in this or else you wouldn't even be here so let's stop pretending like I'm the only one with an interest in this.

My suggestion is a good suggestion because it will sell and people will appreciate it. Hearts are boring and I know from years of playing this game that I'm very much not alone in this opinion. Clearly ANET doesn't have a problem selling progress in principle so I think this would be a fine addition to waypoint unlocks and level 80 boosters. PEOPLE WILL PAY FOR THIS ANET IF YOURE READING.

The only reason you are doing map completion is to get GoE. You need those to craft Legendaries, not to make Legendaries for your own personal use but to sell and make a profit. After doing several map completions for profit you’re bored with it and you’ve thought of a way to get your gold faster, which is to buy map completion from ANet. Therefore, you are not making this suggestion to help the game but to help your wallet. Since you hope to increase your future income you have no reason to consider arguments against your suggestion which means a real discussion with you about the pros and cons isn’t possible as you’ll not hear the cons. May I suggest you find some other way to make gold rather than asking for ANet to sell game completion in the gem store.

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@Israel.7056 said:

@Israel.7056 said:If you're like me and you've done map completion a few times I'm sure you will agree that the single most annoying thing about it is completing the hearts. I absolutely despise them and I would pay almost any price to be able to skip them entirely.

We can already skip the incredibly annoying Hero Point Challenges. Please Anet, give us another item that lets us skip the god forsaken hearts . Please consider making them purchasable with extra PvP or WvW currencies as well as that would finally give things like badges some use. They could cost any currency you want and I would still buy them regardless, that's how much I detest the hearts.

Unless you are trying to get the map completion chest without doing the work, I genuinely don't understand why you don't just ignore them. The heart vendors wont have anything a veteran player needs (except that extra exp you need to level quickly). If you find them boring maybe a better approach is ask Anet to make more frequent fun events that also count toward heart completion. I can get behind a demand for more frequent events. Here I'll start: ANET I DEMAND MORE EVENTS IN THE CORE GAME! HEART COMPLETION IS BORING WITHOUT THEM. :)

What I'm proposing is that I be allowed to use resources I have gathered from other parts of the game and then spend them on completing this particular part of the game that I find tedious and annoying. More events would be a different sort of request I want to be able to pay either an in game currency or gems to skip these entirely.

That's the part I don't get. Hearts are completely skip-able. Why are they so important to you?

They're a necessary part of map completion.

I'm always enthralled by people that think MMO's are customized so they can do the content THEY choose, for the rewards THEY want.

/me sits back to see the same old bad reasons.

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I think I'll weigh in here. I generally like the game and I'm mostly a PvE'er. I make legendaries a lot. I think I'm up to 17 so far.

The thing is, I mostly agree with the OP as far as how annoying hearts are after many world completes. On the other hand, I disagree that they should be in the cash shop. That's just ridiculous. As others have said it would trivialize making a core legendary, which unlike HoT legendaries, can be sold on the trading post.

The real answer is to not grind the stuff out and get it done, but just do a bit as you're running around the world until stuff is mostly done. What I don't like more is the repeatable hearts in the new area, and how they affect using the content tracker to help with zone completion. If it's always pointing to the closest heart, and more or less prioritizes hearts, it's useless to find what you're missing in a zone once you've already done the hearts once. Now that's annoying.

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The general thrust of this thread, and its not an uncommon request in this is"I want this , and to get this I have to do that, but I dont want to do that."Nothing in a MMO is necessary or mandatory, so acquisition of everything and anything is discressionary.However, the argument is changed to"Anet is forcing me to do this , in order for me to get that."Note the use of the word "forcing."Some items in the game are deliberately extremely hard to get, simply so that everyone doesnt have one, so dumbing down the acquisition process because people dont like it simply devalues what the final outcome of the exercise is.

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@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:

@"Israel.7056" said:Then there's Group D :
Group D neither produces nor buys gen 1 legendaries and so has no stake in the change either way
.If we take the "self interest" argument to its logical conclusion then
only Group D should have any say in whether Anet sells heart completions or not
but they shouldn't care either way because they neither produce nor consume gen 1 legendaries. But if they don't care either way then they're not going to be posting in this thread or care what Anet does because it doesn't matter to them. So logically speaking anyone posting in this thread has some interest in the outcome either way which means that anyone who posted in this thread would be disqualified for reasons of "self interest."

I neither produce nor buy Legendaries. I have no Legendaries at all, either Gen1 or Gen2, even though I’ve played this game since beta. Therefore by your logic and by your words I have the only say in whether Anet sells heart completions or not, and you do not.

/grin.

Same here. I can think of plenty of other things I would like to see them work on though and doing this would be a little more closer to making it more p2w so I would vote no on this change proposal.

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@"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:The only reason you are doing map completion is to get GoE. You need those to craft Legendaries, not to make Legendaries for your own personal use but to sell and make a profit. After doing several map completions for profit you’re bored with it and you’ve thought of a way to get your gold faster, which is to buy map completion from ANet. Therefore, you are not making this suggestion to help the game but to help your wallet. Since you hope to increase your future income you have no reason to consider arguments against your suggestion which means a real discussion with you about the pros and cons isn’t possible as you’ll not hear the cons. May I suggest you find some other way to make gold rather than asking for ANet to sell game completion in the gem store.

I've considered the arguments you've made against my suggestion and I just think they're without grounds. I don't think the gen 1s will lose any more sentimental value than they already have (which is to say none.) They've always been available for purchase with a credit card. They've never offered any prestige value at all and yet they've always been some of the most highly sought after items in the game. I don't think it would negatively affect the game anymore than auto unlocking waypoints and level 80 boosters or auto completing hero challenges or people buying raid clears (which is to say not at all.) I don't think the fact that I stand to make gold from the idea diminishes its value in any way. I don't think it makes sense to dismiss people's ideas for reasons of "self interest."

Nothing you've said has been a legitimate logical objection in my view. You've just drawn an arbitrary line in the sand and said "this far but no further" but there's no logical grounds for doing so since ANET clearly don't mind people paying for progress whether it be through the cash shop or by purchasing raid clears etc and they don't really seem to care about making the Gen 1s consistent with the Gen 2s or else they would've made them account bound but they haven't. This all seems to add up to a clear signal of values on their part.

As a result I will continue to suggest this idea because I think it's a good one and I think Anet may listen because it's totally in line with things already in the game and it will almost surely generate a large number of gem sales from people who, like me, are tired of doing hearts for map completion.

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@"mauried.5608" said:The general thrust of this thread, and its not an uncommon request in this is"I want this , and to get this I have to do that, but I dont want to do that."Nothing in a MMO is necessary or mandatory, so acquisition of everything and anything is discressionary.However, the argument is changed to"Anet is forcing me to do this , in order for me to get that."Note the use of the word "forcing."Some items in the game are deliberately extremely hard to get, simply so that everyone doesnt have one, so dumbing down the acquisition process because people dont like it simply devalues what the final outcome of the exercise is.

It's already possible to buy map completes. It's just done informally through players instead of through the cash shop. Sorry to burst your bubble but the GoEs being used to make the Gen 1s have always been for sale.

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@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:

It makes it an idea where you are only considering how to get more gold faster. That makes it a bad reason to suggest as a self interested suggestion like this which is wallet motivated doesn’t care about any harm to the rest of the game as long as the person who suggests it gets richer faster.

Your suggestion was only made to put more gold in your pocket faster and doesn’t care about any harm to the game. I give it two thumbs down. ?? ??

What harm to the game? The only possible harm would be a possible reduction of legendary prices on the TP. Which he wants to sell. So the only person he might be harming would be .. himself. You think he hasn't considered that?

Personally there's a couple legendaries left that I might consider making if I didn't have to do hearts. Exploring the maps is interesting to me still, despite having done it a ton. Doing the hearts again isnt.

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You can buy map completes from other players, but this means that the other players have to do the hearts, and all this means is that you are paying another player to do the hearts on your behalf.It doesnt mean that the hearts get skipped, and if this method is viable, then no fix is needed.So whats the going rate for another player to do map completion on your behalf?

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@mauried.5608 said:You can buy map completes from other players, but this means that the other players have to do the hearts, and all this means is that you are paying another player to do the hearts on your behalf.It doesnt mean that the hearts get skipped, and if this method is viable, then no fix is needed.So whats the going rate for another player to do map completion on your behalf?

In my experience, it usually hovers between 500g and 800g.

What difference does it make if I pay ANET to let me auto complete the hearts of if I pay another player to do them for me? Is it really that important that someone manually completes them?

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@Celsith.2753 said:

It makes it an idea where you are only considering how to get more gold faster. That makes it a bad reason to suggest as a self interested suggestion like this which is wallet motivated doesn’t care about any harm to the rest of the game as long as the person who suggests it gets richer faster.

Your suggestion was only made to put more gold in your pocket faster and doesn’t care about any harm to the game. I give it two thumbs down. ?? ??

What harm to the game? The only possible harm would be a possible reduction of legendary prices on the TP. Which he wants to sell. So the only person he might be harming would be .. himself. You think he hasn't considered that?

Personally there's a couple legendaries left that I might consider making if I didn't have to do hearts. Exploring the maps is interesting to me still, despite having done it a ton. Doing the hearts again isnt.

It affects the game’s reputation, which in turn affects how many play the game and how long they play.

The consensus among western players is that the game shop should sell fluff and cosmetics. Games that sell power or the ability to get ahead in some way, such as the OP’s suggestion, are frowned upon. Games that do sell things like that start off that way. For a game like gw2 whose gem store was only for fluff and cosmetics to turn around and sell game completion for one of the most important end game items would be a big deal. It would be another break in the promise for the gem store to be cosmetic based and cause many to wonder what the game would sell next. If ANet added game completion like the OP wants, there would be a great deal of unhappiness about this and undoubtedly people would quit the game.

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@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:It affects the game’s reputation, which in turn affects how many play the game and how long they play.

The consensus among western players is that the game shop should sell fluff and cosmetics. Games that sell power or the ability to get ahead in some way, such as the OP’s suggestion, are frowned upon. Games that do sell things like that start off that way. For a game like gw2 whose gem store was only for fluff and cosmetics to turn around and sell game completion for one of the most important end game items would be a big deal. It would be another break in the promise for the gem store to be cosmetic based and cause many to wonder what the game would sell next. If ANet added game completion like the OP wants, there would be a great deal of unhappiness about this and undoubtedly people would quit the game.

So you're campaigning for level up scrolls, level 80 boosts, tomes of knowledge, the waypoint packages and the BL chest map currency items to be removed I assume?No one is asking for 'game completion' I don't want them to sell legendaries in the gem store. I just want exploration to be actual exploration. Clicking an npc to hand him 50 items is not exploration.

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@Celsith.2753 said:

@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:It affects the game’s reputation, which in turn affects how many play the game and how long they play.

The consensus among western players is that the game shop should sell fluff and cosmetics. Games that sell power or the ability to get ahead in some way, such as the OP’s suggestion, are frowned upon. Games that do sell things like that start off that way. For a game like gw2 whose gem store was only for fluff and cosmetics to turn around and sell game completion for one of the most important end game items would be a big deal. It would be another break in the promise for the gem store to be cosmetic based and cause many to wonder what the game would sell next. If ANet added game completion like the OP wants, there would be a great deal of unhappiness about this and undoubtedly people would quit the game.

So you're campaigning for level up scrolls, level 80 boosts, tomes of knowledge, the waypoint packages and the BL chest map currency items to be removed I assume?No one is asking for 'game completion' I don't want them to sell legendaries in the gem store. I just want exploration to be actual exploration. Clicking an npc to hand him 50 items is not exploration.

Those items are now in game. As I said earlier, that horse is out of the barn. But that doesn’t mean that I want them to continue down that path or that it’s a good idea and good for the game.

No one is asking for 'game completion

Asking for the ability to buy hearts in the gemstore is asking for the ability to buy part of map completion. Making Legendary weapons which requires map completion is part of the end game. The two things are entertwined and making any part of the endgame a gemstore purchase is not advisable.

Clicking an npc to hand him 50 items is not exploration.And clicking on the gemstore to buy part of map completion is not same as doing it yourself.

Really, think on it. Do you actually want to play a game where your wallet plays the game for you instead of you doing the work yourself? Wouldn’t you rather play to earn the ingame rewards than buy them? It might be boring to do it repeatedly but buying progression like you and the OP are suggesting is not good for the game.

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@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:

Those items are now in game. As I said earlier, that horse is out of the barn. But that doesn’t mean that I want them to continue down that path or that it’s a good idea and good for the game.

And clicking on the gemstore to buy part of map completion is not same as doing it yourself.

We can already buy all manner of things to help with legendaries, including buying the actual legendary itself with credit card bought gems. Do you think people should have to grind the pvp item? The memories of battle? What about all the t6 mats, why should people be able to buy those from the tp instead of having the grinding experience? How do you decide which things are acceptable to have to farm and which are ok to be traded?

Clicking on the gem store once is a whole lot less annoying than doing 303 hearts.

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