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Open World Domination: Mirage


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http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAnfWnsnBNohFMDWoBMMjlVDrMCccCA+DwG4D0MGsDeBA-jxxHQBzT9HAcKAo1TAIjKB3x+DjTfwAV+RGgq1A-e

I've also uploaded videos to my channel of the Shoot of the Stormbringer, Sulfurscale, Awakened Stray, Wayfarer, Sandsnare, Dhael Skyspeaker, Avel Stonejaw, Forged Ambusher, Snag Seizeclaw, Balthazar's Lost, and Perturbed Choya bounties as well as the Sandlion Pridelord over the past couple of days.

Got a favorite open world build that works really well? Feel free to share!

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@AliamRationem.5172 - why no master of manipulation?

@Arlette.9684 said:Think Imma try to tweak this to my specs and give it a spin in WvW tonight. I'll update with my findings.

I've been running similar (well quite a number of different traits because I take renewing oasis, DE, Elusive Mind, Bountiful Disillusionment and Master of Manipulation) pretty much ever since taking mirage into wvw several months ago. It is insanely strong in terms of survivability, very strong in 1v1s with many you'll come across (especially vs opponent mesmers - remember to cover cast your heal with dodge - most cannot threaten you, I'd go as far as saying it's almost a mirror match hard counter unless the opponent also builds with as much dodge access.), and solid in smallscale or picking off outliers in a zerg. If you're running anything similar to this in wvw definitely take signet of inspiration instead of domination and take blink instead of signet of midnight (illusionary ambush is too good).

You'll find the swiftness from it sufficient for roaming - at least it has allowed me to engage/disengage from pretty much any situation I can recall aside from a handful, including some that should be impossible. That's not hyperbole, it's true - I truly regret and wish I could have recorded some of them, but doing that causes issues with my laptop. The ability to survive/escape and even kill chasers while escaping from a mob is unreal - but you need Illusionary Ambush with Blink, Jaunt and Phase Retreat, plus having things like Evasive Mirror and Axe 3 and of course Elusive Mind - very difficult to be caught or pinned down. You don't need sword ambush.

Would recommend more grieving over viper though as you want to land that big axe 3 burst and F1 when possible - the expertise from viper is pretty useless given how easily our limited condis in duelling/chaos/mirage are cleansed - you barely have any confusion application for cover.

Edit - I will add to this by saying there will be things that take more effort to kill if playing duelling/chaos/mirage. It's an inherantly defensive spec even if you go fairly glassy, especially using staff and axe/torch where your only significant burst is axe 3 synchronised with ambush hits and shatter, and while you may enjoy regular no-death wvw sessions (while being useful of course, taking camps, killing enemies etc), there will be one or two encounters that will end in stalemates. Off the top of my head one I can recall was a troll evade ranger. And even when it comes to taking down things like super tanky core warriors it is a challenge to concentrate damage when the builds naturally sacrifices damage output for survivability.On the flipside those rare builds that are pretty much unkillable can't do sod all to you either, so it doesn't bother me (well the warriors can, and funnily enough my least preferred encounter - but there's more than enough kiting potential to deal with it). I personally value/rate the ability to survive while doing useful things more than the ability to kill everything including the on/two impermeable bunkers you might encounter once in a while. You can still kill majority with this and tbh that's worth the tradeoff to be able to survive impossible odds.

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On Master of Manipulation, it's a tough call. Since the only manipulation I use in this build is the Mirror heal, I only gain -3s to one cooldown and +2s reflect. The reflect is nice, but ultimately not needed much in practice because the heal already provides 2s base reflect and I gain 2s reflect on evade through the dueling traitline. On the other hand, an extra chaos storm provides me with extra CC, extra blocks, and I have access to multiple combo leaps to proc chaos armor, which grants 4s protection via Chaotic Dampening.

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@mindcircus.1506 said:Super impressive videos, I watched a few and I have to say that is really great stuff. I expected to find some heavily cherry-picked footage, but it's clear this is a good build and skill.Mostly skill.I am inspired. Thanks.

Wow. Thanks! Glad you enjoyed!

I don't know anything about video editing, so I just hit record and then upload. What you see on my channel is exactly what happened in the game. No special effects or anything cut out.

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@AliamRationem.5172 said:On Master of Manipulation, it's a tough call. Since the only manipulation I use in this build is the Mirror heal, I only gain -3s to one cooldown and +2s reflect. The reflect is nice, but ultimately not needed much in practice because the heal already provides 2s base reflect and I gain 2s reflect on evade through the dueling traitline. On the other hand, an extra chaos storm provides me with extra CC, extra blocks, and I have access to multiple combo leaps to proc chaos armor, which grants 4s protection via Chaotic Dampening.

That makes sense based on the rest of your build and also being more suitable for the context/game mode.

I kind of like to synchronise my open world pve build with my wvw build to maintain fluidity, and in wvw the extra 3s off heal plus adventurer rune endurance refill as well as the 4s reflect is too valuable to pass up.

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@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@mindcircus.1506 said:Super impressive videos, I watched a few and I have to say that is really great stuff. I expected to find some heavily cherry-picked footage, but it's clear this is a good build and skill.Mostly skill.I am inspired. Thanks.

Wow. Thanks! Glad you enjoyed!

I don't know anything about video editing, so I just hit record and then upload. What you see on my channel is exactly what happened in the game. No special effects or anything cut out.

Yeah that's what was impressive. You could have focused on a bounty that was a little more isolated to make it easier, but seeing you handle all the other mobs like the hydras in the first video at the same time was what made that great to me.Good stuff. I'm going to try it today at some point on one of my toons.

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@mindcircus.1506 said:

@mindcircus.1506 said:Super impressive videos, I watched a few and I have to say that is really great stuff. I expected to find some heavily cherry-picked footage, but it's clear this is a good build and skill.Mostly skill.I am inspired. Thanks.

Wow. Thanks! Glad you enjoyed!

I don't know anything about video editing, so I just hit record and then upload. What you see on my channel is exactly what happened in the game. No special effects or anything cut out.

Yeah that's what was impressive. You could have focused on a bounty that was a little more isolated to make it easier, but seeing you handle all the other mobs like the hydras in the first video at the same time was what made that great to me.Good stuff. I'm going to try it today at some point on one of my toons.

That's half the fun of open world! You often have to fend off quite a few adds, respawns, and patrols in the process. In fact, if you check out my Forged Punisher and Forged Lieutenant videos I believe both of those get interrupted by a forged raiding party. That always makes life interesting!

As I recall, this was my very first bounty solo video and I wasn't yet familiar with unstable magic buffs (or the mirage class, if I'm being honest!), but it came out pretty nice anyway!

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@Curunen.8729 said:

Edit - I will add to this by saying there will be things that take more effort to kill if playing duelling/chaos/mirage. It's an inherantly defensive spec even if you go fairly glassy, especially using staff and axe/torch where your only significant burst is axe 3 synchronised with ambush hits and shatter, and while you may enjoy regular no-death wvw sessions (while being useful of course, taking camps, killing enemies etc), there will be one or two encounters that will end in stalemates. Off the top of my head one I can recall was a troll evade ranger. And even when it comes to taking down things like super tanky core warriors it is a challenge to concentrate damage when the builds naturally sacrifices damage output for survivability.On the flipside those rare builds that are pretty much unkillable can't do sod all to you either, so it doesn't bother me (well the warriors can, and funnily enough my least preferred encounter - but there's more than enough kiting potential to deal with it). I personally value/rate the ability to survive while doing useful things more than the ability to kill everything including the on/two impermeable bunkers you might encounter once in a while. You can still kill majority with this and tbh that's worth the tradeoff to be able to survive impossible odds.

Can this be said for pvp too? Because I have been going around in a circle over and over, between chaos and illusions and although I like what chaos tree brings to the table, I always end up choosing illusions because torment on shatter is something that cannot be overlooked. So far, I have not found any mesmer running chaos which can stand the pressure I can put.

What is your experience?

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@trooper.2650 said:

Edit - I will add to this by saying there will be things that take more effort to kill if playing duelling/chaos/mirage. It's an inherantly defensive spec even if you go fairly glassy, especially using staff and axe/torch where your only significant burst is axe 3 synchronised with ambush hits and shatter, and while you may enjoy regular no-death wvw sessions (while being useful of course, taking camps, killing enemies etc), there will be one or two encounters that will end in stalemates. Off the top of my head one I can recall was a troll evade ranger. And even when it comes to taking down things like super tanky core warriors it is a challenge to concentrate damage when the builds naturally sacrifices damage output for survivability.On the flipside those rare builds that are pretty much unkillable can't do sod all to you either, so it doesn't bother me (well the warriors can, and funnily enough my least preferred encounter - but there's more than enough kiting potential to deal with it). I personally value/rate the ability to survive while doing useful things more than the ability to kill everything including the on/two impermeable bunkers you might encounter once in a while. You can still kill majority with this and tbh that's worth the tradeoff to be able to survive impossible odds.

Can this be said for pvp too? Because I have been going around in a circle over and over, between chaos and illusions and although I like what chaos tree brings to the table, I always end up choosing illusions because torment on shatter is something that cannot be overlooked. So far, I have not found any mesmer running chaos which can stand the pressure I can put.

What is your experience?

Just saying I'll get back to you regarding this tomorrow as I'm busy with work today.

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@AliamRationem.5172 , @all ,

is the axe/staff condi build "better" dps/damage/survivability wise if you compare it with axe/torch axe/pistol?Im currently running an a/t a/p build and I like it for now, but I have never tried the staff because I thought it was never "good enough".Thanks.

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@grabowac.7915 said:@AliamRationem.5172 , @all ,

is the axe/staff condi build "better" dps/damage/survivability wise if you compare it with axe/torch axe/pistol?Im currently running an a/t a/p build and I like it for now, but I have never tried the staff because I thought it was never "good enough".Thanks.

I'm no Mesmer expert, but it seems to me using Staff instead of Pistol will make you better at surviving. Phase Retreat, Chaos Armor (giving prot from trait), Chaos Storm, extra condis/boons from auto should help reduce incoming pressure a lot. Damage-wise I would expect it to be worse than A+T/P but probably still good enough.

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@grabowac.7915 said:@AliamRationem.5172 , @all ,

is the axe/staff condi build "better" dps/damage/survivability wise if you compare it with axe/torch axe/pistol?Im currently running an a/t a/p build and I like it for now, but I have never tried the staff because I thought it was never "good enough".Thanks.

Axe is better damage than staff, but having a ranged option is useful for open world play.

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The illusions vs Chaos debacle is purely subjective. And it’s not because of torment on shatter. You already have access to tons of torment, getting 4 extra stacks per perfectly landed shatter is more of an icing on the cake, not something to build around, unless you’re a chrono. But if you are, why would you build condi to begin with?

It all boils down to Xtra Offense or Defense?

@Curunen.8729 I like the way you think.In a pvp environment I wouldn’t underestimate Illisuionary Defense, esp if you’re rolling Deceptive Evasion.I ran a version of the build with illusions last few days. I love the offensive component to it, but the defense suffers greatly in outnumbered fights with lots of cleaves and AoE.

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@Rysdude.3824 said:Would there be huge difference if one went from all Viper’s to all Trailblazer?

Looking at mirage benchmarks, about 15% of the damage is power-based. Of course, this is a different build, but it gives a rough idea of power's contribution to dps. So, that part of your damage will be hurt, while the condi output is unaffected. In return, you get tons of survivability.

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@Arlette.9684 said:. And it’s not because of torment on shatter.

You could be right. But when I shatter, aside from the direct damage I deal, I expect something bad to happen. Letting the enemy walk away with a small dent in his /her hp bar and gaining few boons from Bountiful Disillusioned, regardless of how good the trait is, it does not appeal to me. But you are right in saying this is purely subjective. The fact that cannot be denied is one provides a defensive play style while the other an offensive one. Illusions tree defenitely boosts your damage not only because of MtD, though.

So far my experience showed me that in pvp offensive builds pay off more than defensive ones, but I could be wrong. In the end it is always down to personal taste so we can go over and over about what is best but it is always you and the way you play that should draw you to the tree which suits you the most. No right or wrong unless one keeps losing badly in several duels but even then you need to factor the skill level

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@trooper.2650 said:

@Arlette.9684 said:. And it’s not because of torment on shatter.

You could be right. But when I shatter, aside from the direct damage I deal, I expect something
bad
to happen. Letting the enemy walk away with a small dent in his /her hp bar and gaining few boons from Bountiful Disillusioned, regardless of how good the trait is, it does not appeal to me. But you are right in saying this is purely subjective. The fact that cannot be denied is one provides a defensive play style while the other an offensive one. Illusions tree defenitely boosts your damage not only because of MtD, though.

So far my experience showed me that in pvp offensive builds pay off more than defensive ones, but I could be wrong. In the end it is always down to personal taste so we can go over and over about what is best but it is always you and the way you play that should draw you to the tree which suits you the most. No right or wrong unless one keeps losing badly in several duels but even then you need to factor the skill level

Amen!

@grabowac.7915 said:@Feanor.2358 , @AliamRationem.5172 ,

and if you compare staff with greatsword? which would be better for open world?

Staff.

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@RabbitUp.8294 said:

@"Rysdude.3824" said:Would there be huge difference if one went from all Viper’s to all Trailblazer?

Looking at mirage benchmarks, about 15% of the damage is power-based. Of course, this is a different build, but it gives a rough idea of power's contribution to dps. So, that part of your damage will be hurt, while the condi output is unaffected. In return, you get tons of survivability.

In my experience in open world play, power-based damage accounts for closer to 20-30% damage. Also, if I understand how clone crit % is determined, precision has a significant impact on bleed stacking via Sharper Images. I can't be certain as I don't have a trailblazer set to test with and I haven't looked closely into the impact of Sharper Images on Mirage DPS, but if I had to guess I'd expect to see somewhere in the range of a 25-33% damage loss.

On the other hand, I can't even imagine what it would take to bring me down in open world if I had all that toughness and vitality! And when I know I'm invincible, I can play more aggressively! This video of my Celestial Tempest auramancer taking down the Mushroom Queen is a perfect example. You can see that she isn't able to pressure me much, to the point where I repeatedly stand in her area effects to finish overloads because I can afford to take the hit!

It's likely that this would mitigate at least some of the damage loss in open world play (not so likely in raids, but who raids in Trailblazer anyway?). Besides, who needs to solo bounty champs (don't answer that!)? Even at a 33% damage loss you would still deal perfectly adequate damage as long as you aren't trying to beat a boss with 2 million health and tons of healing in under 10 minutes by yourself!

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@grabowac.7915 said:@Feanor.2358 , @AliamRationem.5172 ,

and if you compare staff with greatsword? which would be better for open world?

For condi builds, greatsword is not ideal because the only condi it applies are bleeds from clone criticals from Sharper Images. It's also nowhere near as strong defensively as staff. You will want to use axe as much as possible. The ranged option is only there because you will inevitably need it in open world play. So you want a weapon that is both strong defensively and applies solid condi damage. Staff does both and its damage is actually quite good for how amazing it is as a defensive tool.

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