Fractal Random Mistlock Instabilities

[Feanor.2358]

@Bugabuga.9721 said:

@squallaus.8321 said:

@"Talindra.4958" said:Ben will hv more headache cos now he has instabilities variables and reward variables to deal with ??? - squallaus.8321

While that may be true but I also think he should start to play to gw2's systems strengths in terms of build variety and customizability.In early gw2 with core tyria content, the difficulty had been kept fairly low and we ended up with pretty much DPS only party meta.With the introduction of HoT, we had the introduction of RAIDS and CMs that in some ways mimicked party compositions and roles of traditional trinity systems and forced players to go with DPS, tank, healer if they wanted a reasonably smooth runs.With the introduction of randomised mistlocks, we saw first time in a while that average players with the usual DPS, BS, Druid, Chrono struggle a bit with certain mistlock combinations due to the increase in difficulty. I think Ben/Anet should try encouraging players to explore outside of the current meta comp so that smoother runs with average players can be achieved. This may come at the expense of some dps loss compared to the current meta make up. In the long run this will promote build diversity and help players better understand the dynamics of various different party compositions. Hence my suggestion of better rewards for certain mistlock combinations and allow mistlocks to completely randomise instead of simple blacklisting certain combinations.

For example, for the mistlock combination of afflicted, last laugh, toxic trail, for 99cm people might opt for maybe something like 2 Mirage DPS, BS, Firebrand healer/support, chrono sup instead of the usual combination. Mirage naturally has alot more dodges and last laugh wont effect them as much. Firebrand has alot of stab and aegis, will also help alot if countering the effects of last laugh alot for the whole party. All of this at the expensive of dropping spirit support.

Extra reward doesn't have to be much and will be different depending on the difference in increase in difficulty, but maybe something like 2 guaranteed mystic coin at the end of the fractal in the 99cm case above.

Speaking of pugs

Just remember, it's not trivial to fully gear a character

just

because of instability. Or swap runes. Or change your gear.

So in these cases you get "instead of playing you will sit in LFG for 10 minutes waiting for needed class" which is not fun.

Mitigating some of instabilities on some classes is waaay more difficult and having better party comp means "wait to play ".

And we're back to "fractals demand more and more premade group" (which is automatically an easy mode for those who run them often enough to have premade group)Aside from selectable challenge mode I don't know if this can be easily fixed for pug groups.

But given recent changes as whole to make things "more challenging" I guess it's the new philosophy, to have randoms stay away from higher tier fractals and new/re- done fractals.

Either stay away, or consider "converting" to the mindset of playing with a non-random team composition. Frankly I think that's good for t4 and the players who play it. It teaches them the importance of the comp and how teamplay works in this game, which makes it a better stepping stone toward cms and raids.

[Bugabuga.9721]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Bugabuga.9721 said:

@squallaus.8321 said:

@"Talindra.4958" said:Ben will hv more headache cos now he has instabilities variables and reward variables to deal with ??? - squallaus.8321

While that may be true but I also think he should start to play to gw2's systems strengths in terms of build variety and customizability.In early gw2 with core tyria content, the difficulty had been kept fairly low and we ended up with pretty much DPS only party meta.With the introduction of HoT, we had the introduction of RAIDS and CMs that in some ways mimicked party compositions and roles of traditional trinity systems and forced players to go with DPS, tank, healer if they wanted a reasonably smooth runs.With the introduction of randomised mistlocks, we saw first time in a while that average players with the usual DPS, BS, Druid, Chrono struggle a bit with certain mistlock combinations due to the increase in difficulty. I think Ben/Anet should try encouraging players to explore outside of the current meta comp so that smoother runs with average players can be achieved. This may come at the expense of some dps loss compared to the current meta make up. In the long run this will promote build diversity and help players better understand the dynamics of various different party compositions. Hence my suggestion of better rewards for certain mistlock combinations and allow mistlocks to completely randomise instead of simple blacklisting certain combinations.

For example, for the mistlock combination of afflicted, last laugh, toxic trail, for 99cm people might opt for maybe something like 2 Mirage DPS, BS, Firebrand healer/support, chrono sup instead of the usual combination. Mirage naturally has alot more dodges and last laugh wont effect them as much. Firebrand has alot of stab and aegis, will also help alot if countering the effects of last laugh alot for the whole party. All of this at the expensive of dropping spirit support.

Extra reward doesn't have to be much and will be different depending on the difference in increase in difficulty, but maybe something like 2 guaranteed mystic coin at the end of the fractal in the 99cm case above.

Speaking of pugs

Just remember, it's not trivial to fully gear a character

just

because of instability. Or swap runes. Or change your gear.

So in these cases you get "instead of playing you will sit in LFG for 10 minutes waiting for needed class" which is not fun.

Mitigating some of instabilities on some classes is waaay more difficult and having better party comp means "wait to play ".

And we're back to "fractals demand more and more premade group" (which is automatically an easy mode for those who run them often enough to have premade group)Aside from selectable challenge mode I don't know if this can be easily fixed for pug groups.

But given recent changes as whole to make things "more challenging" I guess it's the new philosophy, to have randoms stay away from higher tier fractals and new/re- done fractals.

Either stay away, or consider "converting" to the mindset of playing with a non-random team composition. Frankly I think that's good for t4 and the players who play it. It teaches them the importance of the comp and how teamplay works in this game, which makes it a better stepping stone toward cms and raids.

Which is what I've been saying -- non-premade groups are being punished more and more by latest sets of "improvements" that end up making things harder on random groups.

As long as that is the clear goal (lower number of casual players playing t4 fractals, premade or go home, lfg for chrono and druid and wait for 20 minutes in non primetime) it's fine.Maybe I'll be able to eventually find a static group that is running very late NA. If I'm lucky. If.Going from previous seemingly bustling population to "not this week/ not today" is disheartening. Pros will want more challenges anyway, so they're not going tobe happy with everything being too easy.

Keep pro players in raids, leave fractals to casual players :) with CMs being the in-between for "not quite raid but getting there".

Or maybe add drops of free stat changers if "for this instability you have to swap your ascended with AR and expensive rune to something else" .

[Vinceman.4572]

@"squallaus.8321" said:

Everyone in the end will get BIS if they want the best performance.

Well, this "end" is different for each player in this game. While speed run guild members eventually have multiple twinks with multiple equipment there's a lot of players that only have this one char for fracs and aren't easily able to give a 2nd or a 3rd armor + weapons + trinkets to their mains AND also equip different classes in the same way as well.

AR is completely separate for fractals alone. Ascended is used for all end game content. Getting multiple ascended sets is not difficult.

For a longterm player, indeed. For beginners and also T4 beginners it definitely is! I'm able to equip 5-6 classes with asc gear instantly but it's highly debatable that the majority of the T4 crowd (especially non-raiders) can do as well!

In the end I doubt it would be a good idea if Anet develops fractals around classes or special abilities from certain classes. Fractals need to be accessible and you decrease this accessibility by pushing the content to niches. For example I don't want to sit in the LFG and wait for a firebrand because a chrono (or whateverest class) can't handle a fractal and its instabilities or making plans about fractals beforehand because Thaumanova needs condi classes, Molten Boss a power comp and 2 healers on Twilight Oasis. The primary goal should be to let people hop into and play the game otherwise it's unfunny and more annoying for the majority of the player base.

[squallaus.8321]

@Vinceman.4572 said:

Well, this "end" is different for each player in this game. While speed run guild members eventually have multiple twinks with multiple equipment there's a lot of players that only have this one char for fracs and aren't easily able to give a 2nd or a 3rd armor + weapons + trinkets to their mains AND also equip different classes in the same way as well.

For a longterm player, indeed. For beginners and also T4 beginners it definitely is! I'm able to equip 5-6 classes with asc gear instantly but it's highly debatable that the majority of the T4 crowd (especially non-raiders) can do as well!

Stat changes are usually for major play style changes like going from DPS chrono to support chrono to DPS mirage. Other than that you still have alot of variations with util and traits. Even if a fair portion of the player base only got 1 set of gear they can still spec for more offensive or defensive based on the encounter. So I don't think it'll be that bad. And put it another way, those who like to run fractals will have several sets of gear fairly easily. If a player only only got 1 set of gear, chances are they dont like to runT4 fractals much anyway. Thats from what I've seen from various players in the game.

@Vinceman.4572 said:In the end I doubt it would be a good idea if Anet develops fractals around classes or special abilities from certain classes. Fractals need to be accessible and you decrease this accessibility by pushing the content to niches. For example I don't want to sit in the LFG and wait for a firebrand because a chrono (or whateverest class) can't handle a fractal and its instabilities or making plans about fractals beforehand because Thaumanova needs condi classes, Molten Boss a power comp and 2 healers on Twilight Oasis. The primary goal should be to let people hop into and play the game otherwise it's unfunny and more annoying for the majority of the player base.

I think this goes more to prove players don't understand what their classes are capable of instead of just DPS in PVE. Most classes can in fact do most things if you spec for it. If you dont have a firebrand, how about taking some stab of your own. There is no such thing as a class can't handle a fractal, just that some classes will find it easier than others for some encounters. You dont take the meta comp because other comps can't handle it, you take meta comp for smoother runs... to the point where you just constantly stand on top of bosses and dont really need to kite. Hop in and just play T4? T1 maybe, but T4s should be a reasonable challenge with CMs being difficulty challenge.

With last laught in 99cm a couple of weeks ago, for the first time in over a year now, I saw players were forced to move away from the center during the 2nd boss and not just blindly stack there. So I'd say let all instability vary freely but give extra rewards for certain instability combinations that are deemed difficult as incentive to still do them. Let players explore other aspects of their classes and get them to think, choose traits and utils other than just for DPS.

[Vinceman.4572]

Well, players already do this and did this in the past, already during dungeon peak times.Your posts sounded more like you would force Anet and players to play different classes in fractals.

[squallaus.8321]

@Vinceman.4572 said:Well, players already do this and did this in the past, already during dungeon peak times.Your posts sounded more like you would force Anet and players to play different classes in fractals.

i don't think people are though. Anything that falls outside of their high dps setup they come on here and ask for certain instability combinations be black listed.

[TexZero.7910]

@squallaus.8321 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:Well, players already do this and did this in the past, already during dungeon peak times.Your posts sounded more like you would force Anet and players to play different classes in fractals.

i don't think people are though. Anything that falls outside of their high dps setup they come on here and ask for certain instability combinations be black listed.

Not quite, people are asking for the really inane and annoying combinations that prohibit melee from being a thing. Not every class has decent ranged options ya know.

[squallaus.8321]

@TexZero.7910 said:

@squallaus.8321 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:Well, players already do this and did this in the past, already during dungeon peak times.Your posts sounded more like you would force Anet and players to play different classes in fractals.

i don't think people are though. Anything that falls outside of their high dps setup they come on here and ask for certain instability combinations be black listed.

Not quite, people are asking for the really inane and annoying combinations that prohibit melee from being a thing. Not every class has decent ranged options ya know.

Yeah thats the thing. You won't even need to do 50% of the dps that meta builds can dish out to clear T4 fractals in reasonable amount of time. So why not use ranged weapons occationally?Point has always been players should need to take traits, utilities and even different gear at the expense of DPS some times in order to progress. If everyone can just stand in melee and DPS i'd argue the content is too easy. And i don't think that is good for the game, its players and potential players in the long run. GW2 is a game that has classes that are highly customisation and each class has fairly large coverage of what they are capable of doing, just not all at the same time. This stands in stark contrast to other traditional trinity games.

[Vinceman.4572]

@squallaus.8321 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@squallaus.8321 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:Well, players already do this and did this in the past, already during dungeon peak times.Your posts sounded more like you would force Anet and players to play different classes in fractals.

i don't think people are though. Anything that falls outside of their high dps setup they come on here and ask for certain instability combinations be black listed.

Not quite, people are asking for the really inane and annoying combinations that prohibit melee from being a thing. Not every class has decent ranged options ya know.

Yeah thats the thing. You won't even need to do 50% of the dps that meta builds can dish out to clear T4 fractals. So why not use ranged weapons occationally?

Not everyone wants to play fractals for 2 hours. Some of us like to be fast & efficient. Hitting bosses with a wet noodle or going into fights that punish teamplay isn't everyone's favour.

[squallaus.8321]

@Vinceman.4572 said:

Not everyone wants to play fractals for 2 hours. Some of us like to be fast & efficient. Hitting bosses with a wet noodle or going into fights that punish teamplay isn't everyone's favour.

It wont be for 2 hour. 2 hours is more like the time you take to solo 3 T4s without a healer beside you. Run time of average player groups that know what they are doing is about 40 min for 3 T4s atm. Given the total number of possible instabilities combinations, the chances of more difficult combinations remains very low. So they will only occur once in a full moon anyways for atleast 1 of the 3 daily T4s. But when they do occur, players should be given extra rewards for completing them.

Furthermore, your desire for completing content quickly should not be the driving factor for mechanics design for each encounter. Otherwise you might as well ask anet for a single I Win button.

[Vinceman.4572]

@squallaus.8321 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:

Not everyone wants to play fractals for 2 hours. Some of us like to be fast & efficient. Hitting bosses with a wet noodle or going into fights that punish teamplay isn't everyone's favour.

It wont be for 2 hour. 2 hours is more like the time you take to solo 3 T4s without a healer beside you. Run time of average player groups that know what they are doing is about 40 min for 3 T4s atm. Given the total number of possible instabilities combinations, the chances of more difficult combinations remains very low. So they will only occur once in a full moon anyways for atleast 1 of the 3 daily T4s. But when they do occur, players should be given extra rewards for completing them.

Furthermore, your desire for completing content quickly should not be the driving factor for mechanics design for each encounter. Otherwise you might as well ask anet for a single I Win button.

You speak to the wrong person here.I'm the one asking for challenging content but the change to random instabilities isn't such an implementation. We still breeze through CMs + T4 in our daily routine regardless of which instability is present.Your suggestion of obligatory ranged fights to all actual fractal encounters only results into longer combat situations without adding a challenge or any interesting new stuff. As I said it's hitting with a wet noodle for hours and that's what's disgusting.

Let's face it. The change to random instabilities is just a qol feature for internal stuff at Anet to have better handling when adding new instabilities or deleting some - simply a program facilitation. It's nowhere near an addition of challenge for the experienced fractal runners while a good portion of the T4 only player base will struggle and leave fractals aside as many already have stated in several forum & reddit threads. I doubt that this was the favoured intention to players.

[Feanor.2358]

@squallaus.8321 said:With last laught in 99cm a couple of weeks ago, for the first time in over a year now, I saw players were forced to move away from the center during the 2nd boss and not just blindly stack there. So I'd say let all instability vary freely but give extra rewards for certain instability combinations that are deemed difficult as incentive to still do them. Let players explore other aspects of their classes and get them to think, choose traits and utils other than just for DPS.

That's still just a matter of dps though. You're only pushing the bar higher. And there's something else - instabilities should offer extra (and varying) challenge, but first and foremost they should be fun. Personally, I'm already fed up with Last Laugh in particular. Not because it's that difficult, or that it actually forces me to change my playstyle (it doesn't), simply because it dominates almost all fractals since the change. On top of that, stacking circles on top of other circles (or in the case of Molten Boss - stacking orange circles on an orange arena) is just stupid. That's not challenging your skill, that's making sure you get hit. It doesn't matter if I get personal stab or not. It will get overwhelmed because of the sheer amount of mobs, so it doesn't really make any difference. That's not fun at all. In fact all it does is force me to squeeze out all the dps I can so we can phase/kill the boss before we become pinballs.

[Faaris.8013]

@"Bugabuga.9721" said:Which is what I've been saying -- non-premade groups are being punished more and more by latest sets of "improvements" that end up making things harder on random groups.

As long as that is the clear goal (lower number of casual players playing t4 fractals, premade or go home, lfg for chrono and druid and wait for 20 minutes in non primetime) it's fine.Maybe I'll be able to eventually find a static group that is running very late NA. If I'm lucky. If.Going from previous seemingly bustling population to "not this week/ not today" is disheartening. Pros will want more challenges anyway, so they're not going tobe happy with everything being too easy.

Keep pro players in raids, leave fractals to casual players :) with CMs being the in-between for "not quite raid but getting there".

Or maybe add drops of free stat changers if "for this instability you have to swap your ascended with AR and expensive rune to something else" .

I wouldn't only focus on pick up groups of strangers doing fractals. I used to run fractals daily with my guild mates. Not sure I would call us "pro" but we are very experienced players. We do T4 fractals for years, bascially everybody has Deroir titles and we are on a level where we experiment with class combinations to see if we can make them work. We don't need the meta composition to beat fractals easily. I only pugged when my buddies already ran when I log in (we are more than 5 fractal players).

We all like challenges, we challenge ourselves if the content doesn't provide enough. Nobody likes the instabilities or considers them more challenging or fun. And I talked with a lot of random fractal runners I pugged with, and about 90% of them expressed their annoyance with the instabilities. A few people didn't say anything, and nobody ever said something positive about them.

I think it's safe to say that at least 80% of the players in my realm are annoyed by how instabilities work, or even about their mere existance. And that is what I care about, the player base that plays when I play.

The system is bad, and I think it's pretty clear to a lot of people, probably even to involved developers. I have an idea how the team (or better, its representative on the forums) can keep acting like it's good for the game. I've seen this stuff before in business and IT. This whole thing is someone's "baby", and naturally, you get really pissed and defensive when someone criticizes your baby, your creation. Especially when you put a lot of effort and time into it, and you need to prove that it's still feasible. Sometimes the people around you play along because they don't want to hurt you, especially when you have a team of highly agreeable personalities. Well, I am not a highly agreeable person and I am an outsider, so I find it easy to criticize something in this game. I have explained in several posts here why I think it's bad and others have done the same.

But maybe we are all just negative people who do nothing but complain, and cannot be made happy in any way. It's certainly a possibility, but an unlikely one. I stopped playing fractals about a week ago. Maybe someone in the KPI team will notice a drop in fractals played, make a connection with the changes and start asking questions.

[Linken.6345]

@Faaris.8013 said:

@"Bugabuga.9721" said:Which is what I've been saying -- non-premade groups are being punished more and more by latest sets of "improvements" that end up making things harder on random groups.

As long as that is the clear goal (lower number of casual players playing t4 fractals, premade or go home, lfg for chrono and druid and wait for 20 minutes in non primetime) it's fine.Maybe I'll be able to eventually find a static group that is running very late NA. If I'm lucky. If.Going from previous seemingly bustling population to "not this week/ not today" is disheartening. Pros will want more challenges anyway, so they're not going tobe happy with everything being too easy.

Keep pro players in raids, leave fractals to casual players :) with CMs being the in-between for "not quite raid but getting there".

Or maybe add drops of free stat changers if "for this instability you have to swap your ascended with AR and expensive rune to something else" .

I wouldn't only focus on pick up groups of strangers doing fractals. I used to run fractals daily with my guild mates. Not sure I would call us "pro" but we are very experienced players. We do T4 fractals for years, bascially everybody has Deroir titles and we are on a level where we experiment with class combinations to see if we can make them work. We don't need the meta composition to beat fractals easily. I only pugged when my buddies already ran when I log in (we are more than 5 fractal players).

We all like challenges, we challenge ourselves if the content doesn't provide enough. Nobody likes the instabilities or considers them more challenging or fun. And I talked with a lot of random fractal runners I pugged with, and about 90% of them expressed their annoyance with the instabilities. A few people didn't say anything, and nobody ever said something positive about them.

I think it's safe to say that at least 80% of the players

in my realm

are annoyed by how instabilities work, or even about their mere existance. And that is what I care about, the player base that plays when I play.

The system is bad, and I think it's pretty clear to a lot of people, probably even to involved developers. I have an idea how the team (or better, its representative on the forums) can keep acting like it's good for the game. I've seen this stuff before in business and IT. This whole thing is someone's "baby", and naturally, you get really pissed and defensive when someone criticizes your baby, your creation. Especially when you put a lot of effort and time into it, and you need to prove that it's still feasible. Sometimes the people around you play along because they don't want to hurt you, especially when you have a team of highly agreeable personalities. Well, I am not a highly agreeable person and I am an outsider, so I find it easy to criticize something in this game. I have explained in several posts here why I think it's bad and others have done the same.

But maybe we are all just negative people who do nothing but complain, and cannot be made happy in any way. It's certainly a possibility, but an unlikely one. I stopped playing fractals about a week ago. Maybe someone in the KPI team will notice a drop in fractals played, make a connection with the changes and start asking questions.

Says you like challenge then whine about the thing that give t4s challenge yea seems legit mate.EditAnd deroir title is that the fractal god one?yea all the says is that you have played fractals for a long time (while they were arguably easier mate.)Edit2Sure last laugh is a hard instability for some but for me as a druid the one I seem to have problem with in pugs is people being suiciadal with social awkwardness and keep stacking.

[Feanor.2358]

@"Faaris.8013" said:The system is bad, and I think it's pretty clear to a lot of people, probably even to involved developers.

Citation needed. Or rather, arguments. "Players complain about it" isn't a valid argument. You'll find players complaining about everything throwing a wrench in the efficiency of their farm. The instabilities system is intended to bring some variance in an otherwise routine experience. Yes, it will inevitably annoy some people, but it will also generally make the content feel a little less repetitive and ultimately may cause players to retain interest in this content for a longer time. Personally, I agree with it. Changing the rules of the instances on a regular basis fits the premise of the fractals and varies the experience. Sure, I also get aggravated by the non-stop Last Laugh, but that's not to say the system (or even the particular instability) is bad, it's just a balancing issue.

[Faaris.8013]

@"Linken.6345" said:Says you like challenge then whine about the thing that give t4s challenge yea seems legit mate.

You and your side of the argument keep trying to shut people up by basically saying "get gud and stop whining". Even Feanor, who's basically on your side, feels the need to tell us that he's a good player in every second post because of that. What do you need as proof that my criticism is not simply whining because I'm a bad player? Tell me how your statement could possibly be falsified.

I sure hope that's not the way you argue in real life with your spouse, family or at your workplace whenever someone points out that something is bad or could be done in a better way.

If you had tried to understand what I wrote, you would have figured that I do not consider the instabilities challenges but annoyances. I want to be challenged, no annoyed. If you run an obstacle parcour and it has difficult obstacles, you get challenged, if people trip you randomly, you get annoyed. It's not an easy to make differentiation, I get that.

[Vinceman.4572]

@Linken.6345 said:Says you like challenge then whine about the thing that give t4s challenge yea seems legit mate.

Where is the extra challenge with those random instabilities? I'm asking because I can't see it while running CMs + T4s + Recs every single day. We still rush through the content but players are annoyed because they don't add fun to the fights. It could be problematic to delete a big portion of fun from the content players like.

yea all the says is that you have played fractals for a long time (while they were arguably easier mate.)

Seriously, stop the nonsense and be realistic: Fractals are not arguably harder!On the contrary, last weeks CMs were undoubtedly easier than ever before because they had flux bomb in 100 which never appeared and the other two (one was harmstrung) were irrelevant as well.

[TexZero.7910]

@squallaus.8321 said:Yeah thats the thing. You won't even need to do 50% of the dps that meta builds can dish out to clear T4 fractals in reasonable amount of time. So why not use ranged weapons occationally?

Why should an encounter become so cumbersome as to entirely deny melee to begin with ?

Melee is already punished more than ranged is in this game and as already stated not every class has good ranged weapons and trait synergies. So if you'd like to have classes excluded from fractals because of this then more power to you. Otherwise its best not to design this way because not everyone has 9 alts geared and ready to play fractals just incase there's 1-2 really bad combinations of instabilities.

[Linken.6345]

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@Linken.6345 said:Says you like challenge then whine about the thing that give t4s challenge yea seems legit mate.

Where is the extra challenge with those random instabilities? I'm asking because I can't see it while running CMs + T4s + Recs every single day. We still rush through the content but players are annoyed because they don't add fun to the fights. It could be problematic to delete a big portion of fun from the content players like.

yea all the says is that you have played fractals for a long time (while they were arguably easier mate.)

Seriously, stop the nonsense and be realistic: Fractals are not arguably harder!On the contrary, last weeks CMs were undoubtedly easier than ever before because they had flux bomb in 100 which never appeared and the other two (one was harmstrung) were irrelevant as well.

Well clearly we disagree they add fun to me, if you want no instabilites may I suggest fractal 1-25 you can run them all day and dont have any fun deducted.there is also dungeons you can run if you like it and if they are to easy solo or duo them.

[Linken.6345]

@Faaris.8013 said:

@"Linken.6345" said:Says you like challenge then whine about the thing that give t4s challenge yea seems legit mate.

You and your side of the argument keep trying to shut people up by basically saying "get gud and stop whining". Even Feanor, who's basically on your side, feels the need to tell us that he's a good player in every second post because of that. What do you need as proof that my criticism is not simply whining because I'm a bad player? Tell me how your statement could possibly be falsified.

I sure hope that's not the way you argue in real life with your spouse, family or at your workplace whenever someone points out that something is bad or could be done in a better way.

If you had tried to understand what I wrote, you would have figured that I do not consider the instabilities challenges but annoyances. I want to be challenged, no annoyed. If you run an obstacle parcour and it has difficult obstacles, you get challenged, if people trip you randomly, you get annoyed. It's not an easy to make differentiation, I get that.

You said its bad alot of people I talk to and my guild think so and we can do it but dont want to bother.How did you tell them how to make it better, all you said was remove it becouse I and the click I talk to wish for it.

Before random instabilites, you just took the most compatible ones for your group ( that will change when we got more new fractals to not have 2 of the same in a tier) but without change it would become the same boring rutine if the instabilites was rigid.

twiligt oasis with last laugh and flux bomb and was it mist convergance. The group i was with had to go range more then usualy since greneth minions made a carpet bomb in melee, + everyone dont know that you can avoid flux bomb with special action and out of no were behind you a tentacle just spawned.Add to that the boss own aoe fiesta and it was quite diffrent than for example social awakwardness, hamstrung and no pain no gain.EditWhat I would like them to do is borrow more from raids tho so people can get to know mechanics and train on them in 5 man content.Sloth shakey shake, vg greens, spirits at gorse, bomb at sab etc and later when the new wing been out even the soul shackle from dhuum or even green orb and soul horrors walls.

[Linken.6345]

@TexZero.7910 said:

@squallaus.8321 said:Yeah thats the thing. You won't even need to do 50% of the dps that meta builds can dish out to clear T4 fractals in reasonable amount of time. So why not use ranged weapons occationally?

Why should an encounter become so cumbersome as to entirely deny melee to begin with ?

Melee is already punished more than ranged is in this game and as already stated not every class has good ranged weapons and trait synergies. So if you'd like to have classes excluded from fractals because of this then more power to you. Otherwise its best not to design this way because not everyone has 9 alts geared and ready to play fractals just incase there's 1-2 really bad combinations of instabilities.

Well not every class have a range as meta sure, but nothing is stoping a mesmer from equiping a scepter/staff or a warrior a rifle/longbow to keep up the pressure even if range is demanded.What other classes are we talking about, and I can give you some tips on what range weapon they can equip mate.

[Vinceman.4572]

@Linken.6345 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@Linken.6345 said:Says you like challenge then whine about the thing that give t4s challenge yea seems legit mate.

Where is the extra challenge with those random instabilities? I'm asking because I can't see it while running CMs + T4s + Recs every single day. We still rush through the content but players are annoyed because they don't add fun to the fights. It could be problematic to delete a big portion of fun from the content players like.

yea all the says is that you have played fractals for a long time (while they were arguably easier mate.)

Seriously, stop the nonsense and be realistic: Fractals are not arguably harder!On the contrary, last weeks CMs were undoubtedly easier than ever before because they had flux bomb in 100 which never appeared and the other two (one was harmstrung) were irrelevant as well.

Well clearly we disagree they add fun to me, if you want no instabilites may I suggest fractal 1-25 you can run them all day and dont have any fun deducted.there is also dungeons you can run if you like it and if they are to easy solo or duo them.

Since you're still not able to understand I'll stop arguing with you here. Read again: I run CMs on a daily basis since their release so clearly fracs are not hard for me. And most of people on the top level or let's say regular CMs runners have the same opinion. Haven't met anyone disagreeing here.

[Linken.6345]

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@Linken.6345 said:Says you like challenge then whine about the thing that give t4s challenge yea seems legit mate.

Where is the extra challenge with those random instabilities? I'm asking because I can't see it while running CMs + T4s + Recs every single day. We still rush through the content but players are annoyed because they don't add fun to the fights. It could be problematic to delete a big portion of fun from the content players like.

yea all the says is that you have played fractals for a long time (while they were arguably easier mate.)

Seriously, stop the nonsense and be realistic: Fractals are not arguably harder!On the contrary, last weeks CMs were undoubtedly easier than ever before because they had flux bomb in 100 which never appeared and the other two (one was harmstrung) were irrelevant as well.

Well clearly we disagree they add fun to me, if you want no instabilites may I suggest fractal 1-25 you can run them all day and dont have any fun deducted.there is also dungeons you can run if you like it and if they are to easy solo or duo them.

Since you're still not able to understand I'll stop arguing with you here. Read again: I run CMs on a daily basis since their release so clearly fracs are not hard for me. And most of people on the top level or let's say regular CMs runners have the same opinion. Haven't met anyone disagreeing here.

Yea but if the instabilites are such an annyoing feature, what have you proposed they replace them with?I mean without them its not much a challenge and with em according to you there is no challenge to your group.How would they keep you intrested since the fractals have always had instabilites from the start of cms.EditTo be clear your not puging these I guess? That add challenge to me since i never know how good or bad my team mates will be.Not saying Im the best druid I kept touching Sublimato with my druid and social awakwardness since i was running around healing everyone else. s/he needed the added challenge Id say =)

[GrubySzymek.1362]

New approach to instabilities give me nothing more but frustration. It isn't good when a game I paid for makes me frustrated. Or does Ben want me to stop playing?

[cloudsareyum.8120]

This sounds fun! And I'm with the whole, randomize it daily! But I think that "Vindicators" and "Last Laugh" should not be together. That would probably be a bit too much, imo, but someone else may have a different opinion that wouldn't make it so bad and I'm interested.

On the other hand I have to point out that my experiences are colored by was it-- the pof patch? the first patch in which vindicators were introduced and there was extremely high monster oneshots and every fractal with vindicators was just a mess until it got balanced again. Vindicators still scary though, but I think the combination of the exploding enemies and the vindicators would be a bit too hellish for a daily. Maybe on a CM, though? Where people are specifically looking for hell or a challenge.

I mean, I would be interested in (NOT CM, since that's already established level of difficulty), but a kind of (to allude to good old, lovely SAB that's coming up, squee!) "Tribulation" hell mode where it's just for fun but it is made ridiculously unfair to the point of hilarity. Well, solo, though, people can be nasty when things get difficult. Then for that feel free to make it as unfair as possible in the spirit of tribulation as long it is possible to beat via puzzle/technique/reflexes as tribulation is possible to beat (but not via say, you require X amount of constant healing, unless that is a valid mechanic Idek.), walls killing you all of a sudden, fractal vindicators + last laugh + all enemies one shot you. (But please make sure the fps isn't bad).

I personally feel that fractal dailies should be a good level of difficulty based on some of the previous experiences with post patch fractals turning into super hard hell, because even if I stayed, a lot of people would just give up and leave, and it is frustrating when you just want to get the dailies done.