Fractal Random Mistlock Instabilities

[Feanor.2358]

@squallaus.8321 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@squallaus.8321 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@squallaus.8321 said:

shrugs

I like being forced to play outside of how I usually play. The only difference between certain mistlock combinations is the way you need to kite and slight drop in dps as a result. You simply don't like it because your party wipe more often on these combinations.

Yeah, no. Consider the effects of Last Laugh or Toxic Trails in the button room in Underground (I've seen both). The game requires you to stay in one place (on the button) to execute the mechanic, then gives you randomly another mechanic which forces you to move away. It's annoying and it actually promotes cheesing your way, like using the aegis trick on the person who opens. Same goes for Last Laugh on Ensolyss. OK, so I need to dodge now? Where, exactly? The place is already crammed as it is, and already forces you to move because of the chargers. It doesn't wipe the party, it just prolongs the encounter without really adding anything to it.

While the effects of LL can be annoying at the section of Underground because most classes cannot dodge without moving off the buttons. But it isn't something that can't be handled without a bit of improvisation. For example you push or pull them away from the buttons before you kill them. As for aegis i'd argue that better skill play because you actually need to time the aegis to block attacks so u don't have your channeling cancelled.

It's not. You don't block the attacks, you block the interrupt from the closing door. You simply aegis on while channeling, then the other players step off the buttons and clear the trash. The aegis eats the interrupt, and you keep channeling through the closed door.

Tell anet to fix it then. You don't need to do that to stay alive on the bottons with LL and toxic trail enabled. You're just too lazy to change build or whatever even though changing some traits and utils don't take that long. I've never needed to do that trick with aegis.

I definitely don't want to change my build mid-fractal. Yes, it doesn't take long. But it's a hassle, and it's playing the UI, not the game. Doing it occasionally isn't so bad, but again, we're talking about content designed to be played daily.

[squallaus.8321]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@squallaus.8321 said:

Tell anet to fix it then. You don't need to do that to stay alive on the bottons with LL and toxic trail enabled. You're just too lazy to change build or whatever even though changing some traits and utils don't take that long. I've never needed to do that trick with aegis.

I definitely don't want to change my build mid-fractal. Yes, it doesn't take long. But it's a hassle, and it's playing the UI, not the game. Doing it occasionally isn't so bad, but again, we're talking about content designed to be played daily.

As I said all along people are unwilling to improvise and adapt Gw2 classes are capable of wide range of things, just not all at the same time. You feel lazy to adapt so you are more likely to die. Same goes for stacking on top of the bosses whole fight without need to move. Anet need to throw spanners into the works occasionally to shake things up.

[Feanor.2358]

@squallaus.8321 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@squallaus.8321 said:

Tell anet to fix it then. You don't need to do that to stay alive on the bottons with LL and toxic trail enabled. You're just too lazy to change build or whatever even though changing some traits and utils don't take that long. I've never needed to do that trick with aegis.

I definitely don't want to change my build mid-fractal. Yes, it doesn't take long. But it's a hassle, and it's playing the UI, not the game. Doing it occasionally isn't so bad, but again, we're talking about content designed to be played daily.

As I said all along people are unwilling to improvise and adapt Gw2 classes are capable of wide range of things, just not all at the same time. You feel lazy to adapt so you are more likely to die. Same goes for stacking on top of the bosses whole fight without need to move. Anet need to throw spanners into the works occasionally to shake things up.

Shaking things up for the sole purpose of shaking things up isn't a good idea. I would agree if it made the experience more fun. But it doesn't. It makes it annoying, and that's a problem. ANet acknowledged that - Ben said LL is getting nerfed.

[squallaus.8321]

@Feanor.2358 said:

Shaking things up for the sole purpose of shaking things up isn't a good idea. I would agree if it made the experience more fun. But it doesn't. It makes it annoying, and that's a problem. ANet acknowledged that - Ben said LL is getting nerfed.

I think you will find that mechanics that pushes players but as long as they get it they will find it fun. A lot of players simply don't get how to handle LL yet. Ben's changes to LL are purely aimed at average players. I personally found LL annoying initially, but once I get the timing I actually find the kiting fun. LL is arguably less of a problem than social awkwardness but because people want to stand still and stack on bosses, people complain about LL. Again, players simply go for meta builds and then when their builds can't handle it they complain instead of improvising. Very lame.

[Feanor.2358]

@squallaus.8321 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

Shaking things up for the sole purpose of shaking things up isn't a good idea. I would agree if it made the experience more fun. But it doesn't. It makes it annoying, and that's a problem. ANet acknowledged that - Ben said LL is getting nerfed.

I think you will find that mechanics that pushes players but as long as they get it they will find it fun. A lot of players simply don't get how to handle LL yet. Ben's changes to LL are purely aimed at average players. I personally found LL annoying initially, but once I get the timing I actually find the kiting fun. LL is arguably less of a problem than social awkwardness but because people want to stand still and stack on bosses, people complain about LL. Again, players simply go for meta builds and then when their builds can't handle it they complain instead of improvising. Very lame.

It's not lame, it's normal. Meta exists for a reason. And no, the builds are perfectly capable of handling LL. It's just not fun.

[squallaus.8321]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@squallaus.8321 said:

I think you will find that mechanics that pushes players but as long as they get it they will find it fun. A lot of players simply don't get how to handle LL yet. Ben's changes to LL are purely aimed at average players. I personally found LL annoying initially, but once I get the timing I actually find the kiting fun. LL is arguably less of a problem than social awkwardness but because people want to stand still and stack on bosses, people complain about LL. Again, players simply go for meta builds and then when their builds can't handle it they complain instead of improvising. Very lame.

It's not lame, it's normal. Meta exists for a reason. And no, the builds are perfectly capable of handling LL. It's just not fun.

BS., if you didn't go meta and brough say a firebrand support instead LL would be a walk in the park. But even without a firebrand there are plenty of options for each class to handle it. GW2 has one of the most diverse build system out of any game out there and here we find a bunch of players still playing it like some lame old trinity mmo. And when their meta builds can't handle a situation they complain instead of improvising. Again, lame, lame lame.

[TexZero.7910]

@squallaus.8321 said:Quite obviously you are someone who don't do raids and fractals.

Mai Trin and Cliffside last boss in particular seeks players that are furthest away comes to mind. There are numerous bosses that has more deadly aoes at range compared to melee.

Yeah my legendary armor and ad infinitum beg to disagree with your first assertion . But it's okay keep thinking you know me.

You've named two bosses with telegraphs so slow that you can quite literally walk away from them. Congrats on only further proving what i was saying about melee to ranged disparity in combat.

[squallaus.8321]

@"TexZero.7910" said:

Yeah my legendary armor and ad infinitum beg to disagree with your first assertion . But it's okay keep thinking you know me.

You've named two bosses with telegraphs so slow that you can quite literally walk away from them. Congrats on only further proving what i was saying about melee to ranged disparity in combat.

shrugs if you're gonna talk like a newbie don't be surprised when you get treated like one. Many mechanics in the game are anti range. But go ahead, keep talking like they don't exist and then wave your "legendary armor" and "ad infinitum" around as if they are like highlight of your gaming life.

[Feanor.2358]

@squallaus.8321 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@squallaus.8321 said:

I think you will find that mechanics that pushes players but as long as they get it they will find it fun. A lot of players simply don't get how to handle LL yet. Ben's changes to LL are purely aimed at average players. I personally found LL annoying initially, but once I get the timing I actually find the kiting fun. LL is arguably less of a problem than social awkwardness but because people want to stand still and stack on bosses, people complain about LL. Again, players simply go for meta builds and then when their builds can't handle it they complain instead of improvising. Very lame.

It's not lame, it's normal. Meta exists for a reason. And no, the builds are perfectly capable of handling LL. It's just not fun.

BS., if you didn't go meta and brough say a firebrand support instead LL would be a walk in the park. But even without a firebrand there are plenty of options for each class to handle it.

The problem is you'd lose so much by going off-meta that it's simply not worth doing it.

[TexZero.7910]

@squallaus.8321 said:

@"TexZero.7910" said:

Yeah my legendary armor and ad infinitum beg to disagree with your first assertion . But it's okay keep thinking you know me.

You've named two bosses with telegraphs so slow that you can quite literally walk away from them. Congrats on only further proving what i was saying about melee to ranged disparity in combat.

shrugs

if you're gonna talk like a newbie don't be surprised when you get treated like one. Many mechanics in the game are anti range. But go ahead, keep talking like they don't exist and then wave your "legendary armor" and "ad infinitum" around as if they are like highlight of your gaming life.

How do you even get from Melee to Ranged disparity is high, to me being a noob ? Are you projecting a fair bit cause it certainly looks like you are....There's very few "anti-range" mechanics in this. So much so that you could only name 2 that exist in fractals and those two are easily the two slowest and most telegraphed to such an extent that you can quite literally side step them or even force them to target swap by having the projectile hit someone else.

But i can see im talking to the pro-est of pro's here.

[Malediktus.9250]

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@squallaus.8321 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@squallaus.8321 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:Well, players already do this and did this in the past, already during dungeon peak times.Your posts sounded more like you would force Anet and players to play different classes in fractals.

i don't think people are though. Anything that falls outside of their high dps setup they come on here and ask for certain instability combinations be black listed.

Not quite, people are asking for the really inane and annoying combinations that prohibit melee from being a thing. Not every class has decent ranged options ya know.

Yeah thats the thing. You won't even need to do 50% of the dps that meta builds can dish out to clear T4 fractals. So why not use ranged weapons occationally?

Not everyone wants to play fractals for 2 hours. Some of us like to be fast & efficient. Hitting bosses with a wet noodle or going into fights that punish teamplay isn't everyone's favour.

You are not forced to do all cms and 3 t4s every day if you dont want to spend time. Luckily for you fractals were redesigned with HoT that you can just do a single fractal per day.People are so impatient today lol. Heaven forbid you need to spend 10min extra on something

[Vinceman.4572]

@Malediktus.9250 said:You are not forced to do all cms and 3 t4s every day if you dont want to spend time. Luckily for you fractals were redesigned with HoT that you can just do a single fractal per day.People are so impatient today lol. Heaven forbid you need to spend 10min extra on something

I don't feel forced to do fractal stuff on a daily basis - it's fun for me. But ranged fights were interesting when I got deeper into the game and started to explore dungeons back in 2013 as a total beginner. Ranging Lupi on my terrible geared Necro was quite challenging - at that time.My concern is not to spend 10 minutes longer on a fractal run some day here some day there. I'm just not interested in ranged fights on the actual bosses because we already got past that. If you introduce new bosses with interesting ranged mechanics that can be challenging as well I'll be fine with it. But I've yet to see those and no, PoF/LS4 bounties aren't a good example of outstanding ranged fights. They are boring as hell - running around pew-pewing stuff is the opposite of challenge.

[Malediktus.9250]

Well technically you dont need to go ranged if you heave a healer (harrier druid or tempest), then you can outheal last laugh, toxic trails and similar instabilities. Only SA is a problem since agony nerfs healing by a lot

[Vinceman.4572]

@squallaus.8321 said:Except the chrono and druid don't have control of 3 out of 5 hallucinations that tracks each of the players in the party. Chronos also can no longer give invulns to party members. Which ultimately is what forces the dpsers at the enter to improvise and move out of center for brief periods of time.

Chrono + druid provide stability while druid is healing against the damage. Dps players don't have to move at all. It was and is the same like before the change - with and without LL. There is no improvisation needed, it is standard for competent CM groups. Your assumption must no be from terribad groups or beginners, you have to look at the regular running cm crowd. It seems that you are not really familiar with the fights & classes and their tasks at certain bosses!

The point is...

No, it's not the point because those are two out of all other encounters.

It is easier if they are at melee as it is easier to rez them.

Again, that logic. And once more, we must not talk around first-time users!

It may not still force small group of players to kite, but it certainly forced 99% of the population to improvise or they wipe. This is not about bosses per say but for encounters in general. Toxic trail and last laugh at the last boss in twilight and swamp certainly made things more interesting.

Wrong. 99% of the population in cms knows how to play them by heart. They don't need to improvise because there are those changes. I repeat myself: We didn't have to adjust anything.Plus I disagree, TT and LL haven't made TO and Swamp more interesting. Maybe for the general casual but not for the experienced runner.

[squallaus.8321]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@squallaus.8321 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@squallaus.8321 said:

I think you will find that mechanics that pushes players but as long as they get it they will find it fun. A lot of players simply don't get how to handle LL yet. Ben's changes to LL are purely aimed at average players. I personally found LL annoying initially, but once I get the timing I actually find the kiting fun. LL is arguably less of a problem than social awkwardness but because people want to stand still and stack on bosses, people complain about LL. Again, players simply go for meta builds and then when their builds can't handle it they complain instead of improvising. Very lame.

It's not lame, it's normal. Meta exists for a reason. And no, the builds are perfectly capable of handling LL. It's just not fun.

BS., if you didn't go meta and brough say a firebrand support instead LL would be a walk in the park. But even without a firebrand there are plenty of options for each class to handle it.

The problem is you'd lose so much by going off-meta that it's simply not worth doing it.

That depends. Are you dying? If you are dying then its worth changing because your DPS is 0 or you are unable to complete mechanics when you are on the floor. You said it yourself, its "impossible to survive" some times given certain instability combinations. So change your build to improvise. That's the best part of gw2 cos they make it so easy to change builds. Make use of it.

[squallaus.8321]

@TexZero.7910 said:

@"squallaus.8321" said:

shrugs

if you're gonna talk like a newbie don't be surprised when you get treated like one. Many mechanics in the game are anti range. But go ahead, keep talking like they don't exist and then wave your "legendary armor" and "ad infinitum" around as if they are like highlight of your gaming life.

How do you even get from Melee to Ranged disparity is high, to me being a noob ? Are you projecting a fair bit cause it certainly looks like you are....There's very few "anti-range" mechanics in this. So much so that you could only name 2 that exist in fractals and those two are easily the two slowest and most telegraphed to such an extent that you can quite literally side step them or even force them to target swap by having the projectile hit someone else.

Oh its very simple. You're either maliciously pretending the myriad of anti range mechanics don't exist because "I only mentioned two of them" or you're very ignorant. Of course I would give you the benefit of the doubt and choose the lesser evil of the 2, that you are just very ignorant.

@TexZero.7910 said:But i can see im talking to the pro-est of pro's here.

Oh I don't know about that. I've seen plenty of good players in the game. But I just get the feeling that i'm much more pro than you though.

[squallaus.8321]

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:You are not forced to do all cms and 3 t4s every day if you dont want to spend time. Luckily for you fractals were redesigned with HoT that you can just do a single fractal per day.People are so impatient today lol. Heaven forbid you need to spend 10min extra on something

I don't feel forced to do fractal stuff on a daily basis - it's fun for me. But ranged fights were interesting when I got deeper into the game and started to explore dungeons back in 2013 as a total beginner. Ranging Lupi on my terrible geared Necro was quite challenging - at that time.My concern is not to spend 10 minutes longer on a fractal run some day here some day there. I'm just not interested in ranged fights on the actual bosses because we already got past that. If you introduce new bosses with interesting ranged mechanics that can be challenging as well I'll be fine with it. But I've yet to see those and no, PoF/LS4 bounties aren't a good example of outstanding ranged fights. They are boring as hell - running around pew-pewing stuff is the opposite of challenge.

Anet should definitely design interesting ranged fights as a portion of certainly encounters because right now standing in front of the bosses is pretty much 99% of the fights.

[squallaus.8321]

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@squallaus.8321 said:Except the chrono and druid don't have control of 3 out of 5 hallucinations that tracks each of the players in the party. Chronos also can no longer give invulns to party members. Which ultimately is what forces the dpsers at the enter to improvise and move out of center for brief periods of time.

Chrono + druid provide stability while druid is healing against the damage. Dps players don't have to move at all. It was and is the same like before the change - with and without LL. There is no improvisation needed, it is standard for competent CM groups. Your assumption must no be from terribad groups or beginners, you have to look at the regular running cm crowd. It seems that you are not really familiar with the fights & classes and their tasks at certain bosses!

No Chrono + druid definitely can't maintain stab and there will be a lot of down times Its those down times that get people with LL.. Out of the entire week of running 99cm when LL was active, for most of the runs people were forced to get out of the center during siax when the hallucinations spawned. Firebrand on the other hand has high stab + aegis. But no one plays support firebrand in pve just about.

@Vinceman.4572 said:

The point is...

No, it's not the point because those are two out of all other encounters.

It is easier if they are at melee as it is easier to rez them.

Again, that logic. And once more, we must not talk around first-time users!

No it is easier for them to evade attacks at melee and if they get hit it is easier to rez them. You certainly don't want new players fighting at range. That is very bad training.

@Vinceman.4572 said:

It may not still force small group of players to kite, but it certainly forced 99% of the population to improvise or they wipe. This is not about bosses per say but for encounters in general. Toxic trail and last laugh at the last boss in twilight and swamp certainly made things more interesting.

Wrong. 99% of the population in cms knows how to play them by heart. They don't need to improvise because there are those changes. I repeat myself: We didn't have to adjust anything.Plus I disagree, TT and LL haven't made TO and Swamp more interesting. Maybe for the general casual but not for the experienced runner.

No, but I bet CM regulars is < 1% of the gw2 population. You say that you're that 1% but you some how feel compelled to discuss mechanics has no relevance to you because its still too easy. What they do though is teach the other 99% of the population to be more consistent and improvise.

[TexZero.7910]

@squallaus.8321 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@squallaus.8321 said:

shrugs

if you're gonna talk like a newbie don't be surprised when you get treated like one. Many mechanics in the game are anti range. But go ahead, keep talking like they don't exist and then wave your "legendary armor" and "ad infinitum" around as if they are like highlight of your gaming life.

How do you even get from Melee to Ranged disparity is high, to me being a noob ? Are you projecting a fair bit cause it certainly looks like you are....There's very few "anti-range" mechanics in this. So much so that you could only name 2 that exist in fractals and those two are easily the two slowest and most telegraphed to such an extent that you can quite literally side step them or even force them to target swap by having the projectile hit someone else.

Oh its very simple. You're either maliciously pretending the myriad of anti range mechanics don't exist because "I only mentioned two of them" or you're very ignorant. Of course I would give you the benefit of the doubt and choose the lesser evil of the 2, that you are just very ignorant.

@TexZero.7910 said:But i can see im talking to the pro-est of pro's here.

Oh I don't know about that. I've seen plenty of good players in the game. But I just get the feeling that i'm much more pro than you though.

Again you mentioned two attacks that target people at range. Not only did you mention them but you failed to acknowledge that they can both be walked out of.At this point it's painfully clear that you're just here to feel bigger than you are. Have a nice day.

[Feanor.2358]

@squallaus.8321 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@squallaus.8321 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@squallaus.8321 said:

I think you will find that mechanics that pushes players but as long as they get it they will find it fun. A lot of players simply don't get how to handle LL yet. Ben's changes to LL are purely aimed at average players. I personally found LL annoying initially, but once I get the timing I actually find the kiting fun. LL is arguably less of a problem than social awkwardness but because people want to stand still and stack on bosses, people complain about LL. Again, players simply go for meta builds and then when their builds can't handle it they complain instead of improvising. Very lame.

It's not lame, it's normal. Meta exists for a reason. And no, the builds are perfectly capable of handling LL. It's just not fun.

BS., if you didn't go meta and brough say a firebrand support instead LL would be a walk in the park. But even without a firebrand there are plenty of options for each class to handle it.

The problem is you'd lose so much by going off-meta that it's simply not worth doing it.

That depends. Are you dying? If you are dying then its worth changing because your DPS is 0 or you are unable to complete mechanics when you are on the floor. You said it yourself, its "impossible to survive" some times given certain instability combinations. So change your build to improvise. That's the best part of gw2 cos they make it so easy to change builds. Make use of it.

There is some truth to this, but it does feel bad. Probably because it is too forced. Also changes beside swapping utility skills can't really be comfortably made during the play-through and start to require a lot of clicking on the UI.

[Hydroclasm.8572]

Were the tornadoes in Twilight Oasis intended to leave toxic trails?

[Yasi.9065]

@evoker.7968 said:Can we get an API-Endpoint for the instabilities to see which fractal has which instability for the current week?

Theres no api endpoint (yet)? Or word on how likely it is that there will be?

[Krugash.4920]

I feel randomizing instabilities didn't add much (if not anything at all) to my fractal experience. Who farms Fractal on a daily basis doesn't care much about this system already: it doesn't feel fresh or different each day, it doesn't create the need of more build diversity, nor it does force the necessity to find new strategies to clear it. It's just this little overall annoyance that can peak on frustration on some mechanics.To me it just feels misplaced. It's like when you need to over flavour a recipe that is already good as it is. The fact you can randomize 20 types of toppings on it doesn't necessarily means it'll make it any better. Most the times they feel redundand or just poorly designed, and while doing some mechanics I can't help but laugh and think "wtf is this shat".I would really love to see the instability system removed, and these mechanics used for the CMs version of every other map. Would be cool to Have real CMs of every single fractal map, with some of these concepts used where they could matter and not just thrown at the fractal like they are now. But I'm no pro, so you guys prolly know better.

[SoraSugi.4079]

They fail again. What exactly test are they running to give back this? I start feeling they never tested anything.

[omgdracula.6345]

Just tried doing T3 Volcanic and holy hell the boss fight is cancer. Will all the AOEs the boss puts out on top of afflicted, toxic trail just makes it impossible to get the shield down without going through a mess of fields and getting immobilized.

I don't think either of them are bad by themselves, but they should definitely not stack, or certain mobs should not get toxic trail applied to them.