Fractal Random Mistlock Instabilities

[zealex.9410]

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:Imagine if Ben didn't play with random instabilities at all and how much of recent problems would have been avoided.

Imagine if most players knew half of the mechanics of this game and how much of recent pleblems would have been avoided.

[zealex.9410]

@AllNightPlayer.1286 said:

@"Eramonster.2718" said:At this rate, we might end up with everything nerfed and fractals will be linear/stale than ever before (when its a breeze no matter what instability is randomized) :sweat:. Starting to feel the previous system is more enjoyable "balanced".And why is this bad? Factals weren’t meant to be raids for five people. Especially since dungeons aren’t supported anymore, factals are the new dungeons with complex but also easy mechanics.

t4 fractals also were ment to be afk farm.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@zealex.9410 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:Imagine if Ben didn't play with random instabilities at all and how much of recent problems would have been avoided.

Imagine if most players knew half of the mechanics of this game and how much of recent pleblems would have been avoided.

What problems? Anyone complained about previous mistlock instabilities? If so, how current system improved anything?

[zealex.9410]

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:Imagine if Ben didn't play with random instabilities at all and how much of recent problems would have been avoided.

Imagine if most players knew half of the mechanics of this game and how much of recent pleblems would have been avoided.

What problems? Anyone complained about previous mistlock instabilities? If so, how current system improved anything?

If ppl knew how to use stability, how to stack the adds etc this change would have been just flavour.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@zealex.9410 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:Imagine if Ben didn't play with random instabilities at all and how much of recent problems would have been avoided.

Imagine if most players knew half of the mechanics of this game and how much of recent pleblems would have been avoided.

What problems? Anyone complained about previous mistlock instabilities? If so, how current system improved anything?

If ppl knew how to use stability, how to stack the adds etc this change would have been just flavour.

You didn't answet my quetion.

[TexZero.7910]

@zealex.9410 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:A deadly and challenging encounter should be harder in the end not easier. Good groups are still making it without wiping once!

Eh i have a problem with this archaic line of thinking.

If the boss is truly deadly and hard it should be deadly and hard for the entire fight, not just some arbitrary number of health or some attempt to artificially create fight/flight on a boss.

Now im not saying you can't have phase shifts/different attack patterns. What im saying is it shouldn't be limited to oh look im almost dying, best get serious because that cliche gets old.

Nah its good to have both. I really disliked how enso at the end just stands there lookimg lile hes casting something but instead of having a dps check we instead get a semi afk phase.

And i really dislike how 85% of the fight is totally meaningless because there's no pressure until the boss decides he needs his big boy pants.

Again, if the boss is supposed to be hard and deadly it needs to be throughout the fight. Playing to archaic enrage mechanics is really boring and old. Spice it up make the bosses actually play like bosses.

[Lusteregris.2697]

Eh, yeah i personally dont like those randomized mistlock instabilities. Reasons..1)On t4, there are 3 different instabilities chosen from 10. There are just too few instabilities for it to work and make it exciting. I would really prefer if there were more instabilities in the pool before putting random shuffling on em.

2)Different fractals have different difficulty, and different instabilities are not equally dangerous either. Generally speaking, stuff like uncategorised/aquatic is easier than twilight oasis, which is easier than both cm's. And stuff like adrenaline rush or flux bomb doesnt really compare to Last laugh, Social Awkwardness or Toxic Trail. So if we start randomly assigning them on weekly basis we may end up with easy fractals with easy instabilities..or hard fractals with hard instabilities(like Nightmare + Last Laugh) which will just be frustrating and not fun. And people wont even have enough time to get used to them cuz they will be replaced by the end of the week.

3)I dont like half of the instabilities QQ. Mostly those that just add a bunch of hard-to-avoid damage..stuff like Flux Bomb is OK imo cuz its on players where aoe spawns. Stuff like Toxic Trail aint OK cuz some fractals have 15+ mobs that immediately run into melee with player throwing that aoe trail everywhere.

[zealex.9410]

@TexZero.7910 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@"Vinceman.4572" said:A deadly and challenging encounter should be harder in the end not easier. Good groups are still making it without wiping once!

Eh i have a problem with this archaic line of thinking.

If the boss is truly deadly and hard it should be deadly and hard for the entire fight, not just some arbitrary number of health or some attempt to artificially create fight/flight on a boss.

Now im not saying you can't have phase shifts/different attack patterns. What im saying is it shouldn't be limited to oh look im almost dying, best get serious because that cliche gets old.

Nah its good to have both. I really disliked how enso at the end just stands there lookimg lile hes casting something but instead of having a dps check we instead get a semi afk phase.

And i really dislike how 85% of the fight is totally meaningless because there's no pressure until the boss decides he needs his big boy pants.

Again, if the boss is supposed to be hard and deadly it needs to be throughout the fight. Playing to archaic enrage mechanics is really boring and old. Spice it up make the bosses actually play like bosses.

I dont think anyone said the entire fight needs to be easy and the last 15% needs to be the only challenging part. The fight can very much be as hard as ark or any other "hard" boss for its entirety and in the last 15-10% it jus gets even harder.

The boss could very much still be tough but when its close too death it just goes insane as the neednto survive kicks in.

What we got now is the bosses being hard at the first 80% or so of the fight and then sudenly it decides to afk and let us kill it.

[zealex.9410]

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:Imagine if Ben didn't play with random instabilities at all and how much of recent problems would have been avoided.

Imagine if most players knew half of the mechanics of this game and how much of recent pleblems would have been avoided.

What problems? Anyone complained about previous mistlock instabilities? If so, how current system improved anything?

If ppl knew how to use stability, how to stack the adds etc this change would have been just flavour.

You didn't answet my quetion.

Oh the fact that ppl dont know how to deal with stabilities.

Nobody complained the devs just believed that the old system wasnt what they want for fractals. And i agree the old system was uninteresting.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@zealex.9410 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:Imagine if Ben didn't play with random instabilities at all and how much of recent problems would have been avoided.

Imagine if most players knew half of the mechanics of this game and how much of recent pleblems would have been avoided.

What problems? Anyone complained about previous mistlock instabilities? If so, how current system improved anything?

If ppl knew how to use stability, how to stack the adds etc this change would have been just flavour.

You didn't answet my quetion.

Oh the fact that ppl dont know how to deal with stabilities.

Nobody complained the devs just believed that the old system wasnt what they want for fractals. And i agree the old system was uninteresting.

This system is equally uninteresting. But in addition, it got annoying. If they want to make fractals interesting, they should rework bosses and make them use more mechanics with every tier. Current randomized gimmicks are equal to Joko's ambushes in open world - they offer nothing interesting, just make people angry.

Instabilities are lazy as a concept. Instead of providing good fight experience with bosses, they are slamming random stuff on top on badly designed fights. As a result we arer spammed with multiple mechanics which are boring if you played them seperately. Instabilities are there to hide extremely lazy and boring fractal boss mechanics and I am under the impression current change is made only to make people think they are playing something new.

If Anet wants people to feel engaged in their daily fractal farm, make more fractal revamps and new maps. Instabilities are not content.

[Talindra.4958]

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Talindra.4958 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:Imagine if Ben didn't play with random instabilities at all and how much of recent problems would have been avoided.

i guess something has to be done to make the current fractal more interesting, something that will make old maps more alive. players (like myself) is starting to feel weary and impatient esp with the daily run..... -.- so I guess a little change can be refreshing . lets just see how this changes turn out once it is properly readjusted.. :D :cookie:

How about reworking bosses instead of introducing random gimmicks?

Can't rework a map every 3 months. If there's a rotation mechanic that works for players and can continue to keep the game moving.. it's actually good .. players just need to adjust to counter each combination mistlocks. I don't think it's that bad .. only in cm :p. And we can check what mistlocks it is before decided if I'm up for the challenge in that day lol

[zealex.9410]

@Talindra.4958 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Talindra.4958 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:Imagine if Ben didn't play with random instabilities at all and how much of recent problems would have been avoided.

i guess something has to be done to make the current fractal more interesting, something that will make old maps more alive. players (like myself) is starting to feel weary and impatient esp with the daily run..... -.- so I guess a little change can be refreshing . lets just see how this changes turn out once it is properly readjusted.. :D :cookie:

How about reworking bosses instead of introducing random gimmicks?

Can't rework a map every 3 months. If there's a rotation mechanic that works for players and can continue to keep the game moving.. it's actually good .. players just need to adjust to counter each combination mistlocks. I don't think it's that bad .. only in cm :p. And we can check what mistlocks it is before decided if I'm up for the challenge

Iirc ben said a new fractal would take 2 episodes usually so 4 to 6 months. Id assume a rework would take 3 to 4 and thats including the map changing in some way. It was just to rework a boss id assume it would take less.

But anyways Ben is a smart man im positive he follows the right priorities when it comes to fractals.

[TexZero.7910]

@"zealex.9410" said:What we got now is the bosses being hard at the first 80% or so of the fight and then sudenly it decides to afk and let us kill it.

If you think so. I think it's entirely the opposite. Most bosses we have in fractals are just there for show for the first 75-85% then they "Get Serious". It's an old gaming cliche and it needs to die.

Truly challenging fights are challenging throughout, not just for an arbitrary % of health.

[zealex.9410]

@TexZero.7910 said:

@"zealex.9410" said:What we got now is the bosses being hard at the first 80% or so of the fight and then sudenly it decides to afk and let us kill it.

If you think so. I think it's entirely the opposite. Most bosses we have in fractals are just there for show for the first 75-85% then they "Get Serious". It's an old gaming cliche and it needs to die.

Truly challenging fights are challenging throughout, not just for an arbitrary % of health.

Read again what i wrote.

[TexZero.7910]

@zealex.9410 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@zealex.9410 said:What we got now is the bosses being hard at the first 80% or so of the fight and then sudenly it decides to afk and let us kill it.

If you think so. I think it's entirely the opposite. Most bosses we have in fractals are just there for show for the first 75-85% then they "Get Serious". It's an old gaming cliche and it needs to die.

Truly challenging fights are challenging throughout, not just for an arbitrary % of health.

Read again what i wrote.

I know what you wrote, you're saying ark is now challenging throughout. I disagree.He now has 1 dps check at the tail end of the fight. Doesn't make him challenging through the course of the fight. It also still plays into the let me save my biggest threat for last trope which is stupid. He's not the only boss we have that does this, Sabetha, Molten etc... You name it we have plenty of "Boss" fights that really are not challenging until their last phases and even then its entirely debatable that the last phase is a "challenge".

[zealex.9410]

@TexZero.7910 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@zealex.9410 said:What we got now is the bosses being hard at the first 80% or so of the fight and then sudenly it decides to afk and let us kill it.

If you think so. I think it's entirely the opposite. Most bosses we have in fractals are just there for show for the first 75-85% then they "Get Serious". It's an old gaming cliche and it needs to die.

Truly challenging fights are challenging throughout, not just for an arbitrary % of health.

Read again what i wrote.

I know what you wrote, you're saying ark is now challenging throughout. I disagree.He now has 1 dps check at the tail end of the fight. Doesn't make him challenging through the course of the fight. It also still plays into the let me save my biggest threat for last trope which is stupid. He's not the only boss we have that does this, Sabetha, Molten etc... You name it we have plenty of "Boss" fights that really are not challenging until their last phases and even then its entirely debatable that the last phase is a "challenge".

Hows molten challenging at all in any part if the fight?

[Vinceman.4572]

@"TexZero.7910" said:I know what you wrote, you're saying ark is now challenging throughout. I disagree.He now has 1 dps check at the tail end of the fight. Doesn't make him challenging through the course of the fight. It also still plays into the let me save my biggest threat for last trope which is stupid. He's not the only boss we have that does this, Sabetha, Molten etc... You name it we have plenty of "Boss" fights that really are not challenging until their last phases and even then its entirely debatable that the last phase is a "challenge".

The thing is all you wrote doesn't matter for the equation. Fact is, Ensolyss is a boss where you fight 85% of the encounter, sometimes at the limit (not so good pugs), most of the time ok'ish because for me these 85% bring more pressure on the table than 85% of Skorvald, Artsariiv, Arrk, MAMA or Siax. You need way more timed dodges, a single druid spirit can make the fight so much easier and bullet phases are the ones where you have the most single player wipes out of both CM runs.So, 85% of the time it's paying attention and then it's over, gg, ez pz. Where is the dps check at the end of the fight? There is none! You just dps him to death without fearing anything. Only really bad players do not see the arrows on the floor + react to them. Even if they don't the chrono and druid usually care about that so you don't have to move at all.

Is he challenging this week due to Last Laugh? No, because chrono and druid still handle this in common groups like they always do. Anyways it wouldn't matter because if Last Laugh is out of instability rng next reset the fight is like it was before.

In the end this is a 85% boss and every group is happy when they reach this value knowing that they did it. It's not a discussion about the boss getting more difficult with less hp. It's just bad that the fight literally is over after 85%.

Btw. Molten becomes easier after killing the Berserker.

[TexZero.7910]

@zealex.9410 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@zealex.9410 said:What we got now is the bosses being hard at the first 80% or so of the fight and then sudenly it decides to afk and let us kill it.

If you think so. I think it's entirely the opposite. Most bosses we have in fractals are just there for show for the first 75-85% then they "Get Serious". It's an old gaming cliche and it needs to die.

Truly challenging fights are challenging throughout, not just for an arbitrary % of health.

Read again what i wrote.

I know what you wrote, you're saying ark is now challenging throughout. I disagree.He now has 1 dps check at the tail end of the fight. Doesn't make him challenging through the course of the fight. It also still plays into the let me save my biggest threat for last trope which is stupid. He's not the only boss we have that does this, Sabetha, Molten etc... You name it we have plenty of "Boss" fights that really are not challenging until their last phases and even then its entirely debatable that the last phase is a "challenge".

Hows molten challenging at all in any part if the fight?

That's my point. None of our "BOSS" fights are anywhere near "BOSSES".They are little more than scripted HP pools with a Panic button.

It's an old trope and it needs to die off. All the fights with bosses need to be challenging throughout the fight, not just at some arbitrary % of health.

[zealex.9410]

@TexZero.7910 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@zealex.9410 said:What we got now is the bosses being hard at the first 80% or so of the fight and then sudenly it decides to afk and let us kill it.

If you think so. I think it's entirely the opposite. Most bosses we have in fractals are just there for show for the first 75-85% then they "Get Serious". It's an old gaming cliche and it needs to die.

Truly challenging fights are challenging throughout, not just for an arbitrary % of health.

Read again what i wrote.

I know what you wrote, you're saying ark is now challenging throughout. I disagree.He now has 1 dps check at the tail end of the fight. Doesn't make him challenging through the course of the fight. It also still plays into the let me save my biggest threat for last trope which is stupid. He's not the only boss we have that does this, Sabetha, Molten etc... You name it we have plenty of "Boss" fights that really are not challenging until their last phases and even then its entirely debatable that the last phase is a "challenge".

Hows molten challenging at all in any part if the fight?

That's my point. None of our "BOSS" fights are anywhere near "BOSSES".They are little more than scripted HP pools with a Panic button.

It's an old trope and it needs to die off. All the fights with bosses need to be challenging throughout the fight, not just at some arbitrary % of health.

No we got actuall bosses. There are alot of bosses that remain kinda the same dificulty through out the fight, bosses that get easier in the last phase and some bosses that get progressively harder as the fight continues.

We dont have a boss that stays at the same didifulty for the entire fight only to become a beast at 10%(well the reworked arcdeviner is a boss like that (kinda) and the final boss of snowblind) And the we ave event like bosses.

Both arkk and sabetha get progressivelly harder as the fight progresses.

[Ultimatepwr.9562]

@TexZero.7910 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@zealex.9410 said:What we got now is the bosses being hard at the first 80% or so of the fight and then sudenly it decides to afk and let us kill it.

If you think so. I think it's entirely the opposite. Most bosses we have in fractals are just there for show for the first 75-85% then they "Get Serious". It's an old gaming cliche and it needs to die.

Truly challenging fights are challenging throughout, not just for an arbitrary % of health.

Read again what i wrote.

I know what you wrote, you're saying ark is now challenging throughout. I disagree.He now has 1 dps check at the tail end of the fight. Doesn't make him challenging through the course of the fight. It also still plays into the let me save my biggest threat for last trope which is stupid. He's not the only boss we have that does this, Sabetha, Molten etc... You name it we have plenty of "Boss" fights that really are not challenging until their last phases and even then its entirely debatable that the last phase is a "challenge".

Hows molten challenging at all in any part if the fight?

That's my point. None of our "BOSS" fights are anywhere near "BOSSES".They are little more than scripted HP pools with a Panic button.

It's an old trope and it needs to die off. All the fights with bosses need to be challenging throughout the fight, not just at some arbitrary % of health.

ah, hello. Its fractals. They are equivalent to dungeons in other mmos, and they are comparable in terms of boss complexity.

Also, having phases is accepted game design because it is good. It makes sense to change up the fight throughout it. If some phases are different, some phases will be harder. That is not a problem.

Having a high energy phase at the end, and having a low energy, flashy phase at the end makes absolute sense, both from a game design perspective and a flavor perspective. Hard phases at the end will elicit the "THIS ISN'T EVEN MY FINAL FORM" trope. Its a fun idea, this is the dice roll, its all or nothing, "I MAY BE GOING DOWN, BUT YOU'RE COMING WITH ME". It also allows the moment after beating it to be a moment of elation, sit back in your chair a little more tired then before, and be super happy about it. Final phases like Ensolyss's, on the other hand, can allow for really flashy graphics at the end of the fight, and add in some flavor or rp, without forcing people to concentrate hard on fighting the boss itself. It also allows the player to wind down from a harder fight, and just generally gives the feeling of pounding an enemy into the dust.

Calling it "A trope that needs to die" kinda betrays not thinking about it very much. I guarantee that if all bosses were designed to be the same difficulty throughout, you would not enjoy them as much. An am 100% certain of this, because that is how the human brain works. Admittedly, you might not be human, but I sorta doubt it, and I feel confidant enough assuming that you are.

[squallaus.8321]

@Benjamin Arnold.3457can you please consider making random instabilities random on a daily basis and not just reset once a week? once a week is too long i think

[Talindra.4958]

There will be more variables to deal with if it is reset daily. we are getting diff t4 map daily anyway. Or do you mean daily reset particularly for CM only?

[Eramonster.2718]

@squallaus.8321 said:@Benjamin Arnold.3457can you please consider making random instabilities random on a daily basis and not just reset once a week? once a week is too long i think

I suggest for the moment, let's stick with weekly. Constant changing seems to be a bad idea especially for random pug groups. Changes, no matter big or small (e.g. balancing/changes in meta or shifting) and in this case instabilities require some time to settle down and get adjusted to them. I can't imagine how it will be if the randomization happens daily. Had been experiencing some erratic pugs groups this week.

As for the bosses difficulties, the new fractals T.O and S.O bosses are adequate and good. As for the rest, it's very much straight forward and can be dumbed down to HP punchbags by having support classes. As for CM nightmare, i find the first two bosses exciting while Ensolyss is just a giant punchbag with obvious dodge signs. Last laugh just made the final phase more annoying (difficult to see last laugh aoe circles in that enviroment, making dodges felt like RnG while evading the charging minnions).

[squallaus.8321]

@Talindra.4958 said:There will be more variables to deal with if it is reset daily. we are getting diff t4 map daily anyway. Or do you mean daily reset particularly for CM only?

Well there's been some repeats through out the week. Will feel more exciting to me if they changed a bit more regularly. CMs having the same instab is the other thing.

[Faaris.8013]

@zealex.9410 said:

@Talindra.4958 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Talindra.4958 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:Imagine if Ben didn't play with random instabilities at all and how much of recent problems would have been avoided.

i guess something has to be done to make the current fractal more interesting, something that will make old maps more alive. players (like myself) is starting to feel weary and impatient esp with the daily run..... -.- so I guess a little change can be refreshing . lets just see how this changes turn out once it is properly readjusted.. :D :cookie:

How about reworking bosses instead of introducing random gimmicks?

Can't rework a map every 3 months. If there's a rotation mechanic that works for players and can continue to keep the game moving.. it's actually good .. players just need to adjust to counter each combination mistlocks. I don't think it's that bad .. only in cm :p. And we can check what mistlocks it is before decided if I'm up for the challenge

Iirc ben said a new fractal would take 2 episodes usually so 4 to 6 months. Id assume a rework would take 3 to 4 and thats including the map changing in some way. It was just to rework a boss id assume it would take less.

Glad to see we agree on something for once, as Kheldorn said:

Instabilities are lazy as a concept. Instead of providing good fight experience with bosses, they are slamming random stuff on top on badly designed fights. As a result we arer spammed with multiple mechanics which are boring if you played them seperately. Instabilities are there to hide extremely lazy and boring fractal boss mechanics and I am under the impression current change is made only to make people think they are playing something new.

As you say, doing the necessary rework takes much time and effort, so they went for a quick and dirty quick fix instead. Let's see how players will react.