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Require PoF for third expansion


OriOri.8724

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Only for mounts really. I think they are one of teh best things to have been implemented in GW2 for PvE, and I will be extremely sad if the third expansion gets here and no more maps are ever designed with mounts in mind, simply because you cannot guarantee that people will have bought PoF. The best way I see to allow you to continue designing maps with mounts in mind is to simply require PoF with the third expansion (and all future ones as well).

Its only $30 to buy PoF, and assuming the next expansion is the same, this is a grand total of $60, but it would bring 2 expansions with it. That's a very fair price for the amount of content that people would be getting (I assume about 5-6 maps in the third expansion as well, so ~10 maps purely from expansion maps, not to mention LW maps), and it means that every future map will be designed around mounts, which would be amazing

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Alternatively if there's anything which absolutely requires mounts they could add the option to rent one, like they do for races. It wouldn't be as good as having your own because you'd have to find the NPC and pay each time, but it would make it possible for people who don't have PoF to access areas which only mounts can get to.

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I’m going to guess that future expansions will have to be designed with mounts in mind as too many will have mounts and designing a map will require designing around their capabilities. They can put a warning on it that says some content will require mounts or gliding and let those who don’t have old expansions decide.

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@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:I’m going to guess that future expansions will have to be designed with mounts in mind as too many will have mounts and designing a map will require designing around their capabilities. They can put a warning on it that says some content will require mounts or gliding and let those who don’t have old expansions decide.

The same was said of gliding and we ended up with flat maps instead. A map might be designed around mounts, but if mounts aren't present in the expansion, it won't be designed with mounts in mind. There will be no leaps that require a raptor, no sand jackal portals, no jumps requiring a springer to reach, because ANet won't be able to guarantee that everyone will have those.

@Sarrs.4831 this is also why simply adding in new mounts won't solve anything. Either the movement abilities would have to be the same, in which case for PoF owners its basically a slap in the face for a new expansion mastery to mimic PoF, or maps will not be designed around utilizing PoF mounts, ever.

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The next expansion will have a new set of Masteries and it’s possible that some will be for a new way of moving around the map. Just like the maps that have Masteries for gliding, the lava tubes or Oakheart’s Reach. If that’s so then the maps will be designed with those new Masteries in mind with HoT gliding and PoF mounts there but not emphasized.

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@OriOri.8724 said:this is also why simply adding in new mounts won't solve anything. Either the movement abilities would have to be the same, in which case for PoF owners its basically a slap in the face for a new expansion mastery to mimic PoF, or maps will not be designed around utilizing PoF mounts, ever.

Well... What's wrong with that?

Mounts are still really, really useful in core Tyria and HoT content. The only mechanic that's not really present is jackal portals. You still benefit from jumping far, from jumping high, from going over water (maybe not so much in HoT), and from griffon flight.

So what's the problem? You can't jackal portal into little hidden areas? You can't mushroom jump or use your Itzel Poison Resistance to get into hidden areas either in PoF. Not sure what the problem is.

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@"Ayakaru.6583" said:I agree with fleshwound, PoF was also designed with gliders in mind. Not that they were necessary to use, but could be used (and not be abused).So its likely that Exp3 will have some form of balancing regarding mounts

Theres a diff between hmdesigning a map with gliding in mind and "oh i cab glide from this cliff i guess.

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@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:I’m going to guess that future expansions will have to be designed with mounts in mind as too many will have mounts and designing a map will require designing around their capabilities. They can put a warning on it that says some content will require mounts or gliding and let those who don’t have old expansions decide.

I suppose they could approach it like they approached gliding in POF. You could do everything without gliding but it made some things much easier.

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@zealex.9410 said:

@"Ayakaru.6583" said:I agree with fleshwound, PoF was also designed with gliders in mind. Not that they were necessary to use, but could be used (and not be abused).So its likely that Exp3 will have some form of balancing regarding mounts

Theres a diff between hmdesigning a map with gliding in mind and "oh i cab glide from this cliff i guess.

Yea. I guess people in this thread either don't care or don't notice the difference. VB was designed with gliding in mind, and its very clearly obvious in the map, with its different levels. PoF maps are, for all their huge size, flat maps. Sure, you can climb up a tower/building and glide off it. No, that does not mean that the map was designed with gliding in mind

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@OriOri.8724 said:

@"Ayakaru.6583" said:I agree with fleshwound, PoF was also designed with gliders in mind. Not that they were necessary to use, but could be used (and not be abused).So its likely that Exp3 will have some form of balancing regarding mounts

Theres a diff between hmdesigning a map with gliding in mind and "oh i cab glide from this cliff i guess.

Yea. I guess people in this thread either don't care or don't notice the difference. VB was designed with gliding in mind, and its very clearly obvious in the map, with its different levels. PoF maps are, for all their huge size, flat maps. Sure, you can climb up a tower/building and glide off it. No, that does not mean that the map was designed with gliding in mind

Besides that tho, i believe its far easier to get value from mounts in new maps even if they arent designed with them in mind. For example hot with mounts is super fun

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@Sarrs.4831 said:Why not add new mounts in the new expansion?

It would be interesting to have the new expansion also have mounts but without the masteries. And maybe no griffon (since they are so lore based)

It would encourage new people who start with the third expansion to go back and buy PoF in order to improve their mounts, as well as giving a reason for the new maps to be designed with at least the basic mount skills in mind.

And then maybe add some unique mounts to it as well, masteries and all.

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Theres a big risk for Anet if new expansions require that the player has already bought the previous ones, as it really means that the cost of the new expansion is the sum of all the previous ones plus the new one, which is a real turn off.The only solution to this is to either make the new expansions stand alone, ie not reliant on the previous ones, or give away for free the previous ones with the new one.As Anet chose not to do that with POF, its unlikley they will change their minds on future ones.

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@zealex.9410 said:

@"Ayakaru.6583" said:I agree with fleshwound, PoF was also designed with gliders in mind. Not that they were necessary to use, but could be used (and not be abused).So its likely that Exp3 will have some form of balancing regarding mounts

Theres a diff between hmdesigning a map with gliding in mind and "oh i cab glide from this cliff i guess.

Yea. I guess people in this thread either don't care or don't notice the difference. VB was designed with gliding in mind, and its very clearly obvious in the map, with its different levels. PoF maps are, for all their huge size, flat maps. Sure, you can climb up a tower/building and glide off it. No, that does not mean that the map was designed with gliding in mind

Besides that tho, i believe its far easier to get value from mounts in new maps even if they arent designed with them in mind. For example hot with mounts is super fun

yes, never mind all the canyons and the mountains in PoF, those don't count. And all the areas with challenges and rewards, which should require mounts to access, those don't count either. Anet didn't design those areas keeping in mind many people have gliders.

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Honestly they should go all-in by designing maps with mounts and gliding in mind, while providing in game tools that can replace mounts and glider for people in the new expansion.

As for the pricing model, it is obviously good to make HoT a free bundled expansion when you purchase PoF and reduce the base price of PoF to 20€. That way, the newest expansion can always be priced at 30€ and the new players can always shell out a fair amount of 50€ to get the base game with all expansions.

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Probably what would make the most sense is for the first mastery in the next few expansions to be a new mount that makes sense for that zone (like an underwater mount) and the rest of the masteries something else. Sort of like the first one in HOT was gliding. If you have gliding or the POF mounts they will come in handy but are not strictly needed.

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@Ardid.7203 said:To this day I think it was a mistake not to include HoT mastery elements in PoF. They don't have to be mandatory, but they should have been an option.

You can still use them. At least one of the hero points allows you to shortcut some stuff with gliding. There are not things like bouncing mushrooms though.

With HOT they were experimenting with stuff. Gliding is the only core mastery worth anything except for ley-line gliding (I doubt we will see ley-lines for gliding on any new maps).

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@Ardid.7203 said:They should have added mushrooms, updrafts, leylines and venom zones, among others. Using them as alternate paths to those used with the mounts add variety and keep value to people who bought HoT.

I disagree on mushrooms and vines, as those were things specific to the jungle area, but I would have liked to have seen some updrafts and ley lines, even if all they did was give shortcuts to areas you didn't even need mounts for.

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