Should we have a ingame Crowd Control tutorial.

[MattDu.7123]

post removed

[Dewsitine.3645]

With some slight tweaks to your suggestion, I think it is possible to do it with the backdrop of x race army's armory wanting to teach civilians and adventures how to protect ourselves against the unholy bunny when there is no holy hand grenade of antioch to use. They can have two dummies with two barrels next to each other. These barrels contain one type of weapon, pistol or rifle for one and sword or great sword for the other, that will have all type of cc only skills to show the different type of cc that are in the current skill set. I don't know the reward would be. Maybe have it the same as the chest in the dodge and can only open after the x race army representative gives the all clear sign.

As a side note, maybe there can be a book next to the cc commander that tells how to break cc skills as a "field manual" or setup a similar thing where all of the players skill get temp replaced by all general break cc skills and have some npc attack (prob in a ring like in lake doric) them with non damaging cc skills where they must survive with x amount of attacks (not consecutively to allow for mess ups not affect the person's progress) with same type of reward chest. There could also be two types of modes, that player can choose, for this by calling it slow and reg or fast to allow players to time the break cc while hopefully they not get frustrated if they are having trouble countering cc.

[zealex.9410]

To the title. Yes.

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

It is a bit like the situation with finding job after school. You need work-experience to get a job. The companies do not care how you obtain it, but do not try to apply for anything without it. And the ones who consider taking people without experience, willing to give the new ones a chance are seen as the idiots.

You simply have to be born with an elementary knowledge about CC skills, how they work and when to use which. Tutorials are boring, I suggested this a few times on these boards with little to 0 interest at all. People who are willing to teach others how CCs work are seen as smartypants. If you are brave enough to try that in-game, you basically insult the intellect of every player around = he does not know how his class works. A few guys will listen to you, the rest may block or ignore you. The best results I received with either anonymizing by listing various cc-skills from different classes without actually mentioning a certain class in particular OR giving advisable compliments like "Wow. That knockback skill looks pretty impressive. But now we have to run after that enemy. Could you safe these attacks for more dangerous siutations?" or "Do you see that blue bar over his head? It seems to react on stuns and knockbacks, let's try to get it down." - this works imho better than talking straight against people or insulting them.

I repeat my request again. Please give us some sort of npc for basic game mechanics, accessible in the home instance so even shy people can do it. A few explanations and maybe a small tutorial level (instanced) with a test golem. Following topics selectable: CC, aggro, heal, jumping(puzzles), mounts & gliders & LS-masteries with tutorial sections for each mastery level.

Thanks for bringing up this topic again @MattDu.7123

[Neural.1824]

@"MattDu.7123" said:

All starter maps have a dodge challange so things are not always obvious. So could there also be on a starter map a Dummy that you have to practice dropping the blue bar on to get a map completed HitPoint.

Or it could be incorporated into the level 1 instance. I'm not quite sure how it would work for Norn, Charr, Syvari, and Asura, but with the Human race they have a perfect set up. You fight the elemental "hands", and there are two of them. Currently each has a different knockback attack, so it's clear their mechanics are split. Anet could change one to have very low health, but require the break bar to be broken via use of implements found on the ground (Ettin clubs would work, since there are Ettins not too far from there). Then they could us the orange framed popup to say "pick up a club and break it's defenses!" or something like that.

It would be nice to have it incorporated into the big fight, since that tends to be when it matters most in the future. Not sure what the status is with the VA for logan, but getting an NPC to shout something like "Find something to knock out it's defenses!" would perhaps be helpful.

[Little Leota.5849]

In addition to having an in-game npc to help teach new members about cc (which is a great idea!), I think guilds should offer to help their members who aren't familiar with it. Not in an insulting manner, but in the way HnRk... wrote above. I also think guilds should encourage members to ask questions, and let them know they won't be ridiculed for asking those questions.Another way players are helped to learn about cc is when they are in a squad, or present at an event, with a good commander. That's how I learned what cc is. There was an awesome commander at Shatterer (after the fight had been updated), and he or she gave instructions in local and map chat before the fight began. He or she gave examples of skills that provide cc. It was great! This is a good option for anyone, but players who aren't in a guild would have this way of learning as well.

[DarcShriek.5829]

We absolutely need something for break bar training.

[infrequentia.3465]

yeeeees.and then also add a tutorial how to attack a target.

oh and a tutorial how to read mails. maybe then people will know where dungeons are.

oh and a tutorial how to swim.

[Rococo.8347]

Yeah, I agree. Despite playing on and off since launch and having every class rolled, I only really play 2 classes properly and regularly and one class ( engineer) I played before break bars were a thing. I still have no idea what im doing on those others if I end up in some living story grand map event where break bars are likely.

That said why hasn't one of the better known youtubers done a vid that covers all of the different class cc and how it related to break bars? ( or maybe they have) there's hard cc and soft cc to contend with as well and some classes have more soft than hard and some classes just arnt that good a break bars and cc in general I suspect.

maybe the best way at this point would be to hit up one of those you tubers and ask for a quick series, that can be stickied here...

[Game of Bones.8975]

When fighting within a mob I never know if my CC is working.Does all CC work equally: does size matter in terms of knock-back on a giant or stationary wurm vs a smaller monster?

[Chickenooble.5014]

@"Game of Bones.8975" said:When fighting within a mob I never know if my CC is working.Does all CC work equally: does size matter in terms of knock-back on a giant or stationary wurm vs a smaller monster?

All CC does not work equally. The CC bar is like an extra health bar and some skills will do different levels of damage against the bar.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Defiance_Bar#Skill_details

[Chickenooble.5014]

And to the title -- yes. We have a tutorial for dodging in game so why not add something ... I think there should be an Asuran golemancer that teaches near all starting zones about breakbars. They should give the player an item that has some defiance-bar breaking skills, and let the player experiment with using the different skills to drop the bar. Maybe have 1 as Attack, and 2, 3, 4, and 5 as Stun, Daze, Knockdown and Knockback, respectively. Each of those skills would drop the breakbar, and the enemy should have a breakbar that requires at least three of the skills to be used.

The dialog of the NPC would talk about what CC is, which skill effects count as CC, and that some skills are more effective CC than others. Once you get through the dialog, you should be given two options, "Let me beat up your golem so I can try it!" or "Thanks for the info. I'll try and remember that."

[Cragga the Eighty Third.60]

Frankly, I think we could stand to have a short player's handbook of basics that people could download or access in-game. I don't mean a comprehensive manual or something covering the self-evident beginner stuff, but a brief collection of non-obvious information that will be useful or necessary as you play.Like how to access the wiki from in-game.How to join a squad.How to use the LFGAn overview of the hero panel's tabs and functions for beginners.What the various boons and effects actually do. (Fury, condition damage, alacrity, swiftness, daze, etc.)A cheat sheet of chat commands.What a bunch of those gaming acronyms and terms mean, for the benefit of people who are not hardcore gamers. Because a lot of experienced gamers will stand around during a big fight screaming stuff like "Stack on me and use AoE on the mobs till the boss spawns and then CC, and reflects and bursts when the bar is broken!" and rage afterward that people "didn't listen."Etc.

Maybe most people wouldn't bother to look at it, but I'm pretty sure a lot of people would find it useful.

[FOX.3582]

Yes we should! And if you fail to cc in the tutorial after let’s say; 20 attempts, Guild Wars 2 should be automatically removed from your computer.

[rrusse.7058]

Yes! Just for the simple fact that it is so integral to the game and dealing with bosses. Though there probably needs to be some minor adjustments to CC bars in general as there are a few instance where we do not want to CC the boss so much.

Take the Chak Gerent and Mouth of Mordremoth for example. These two have CC bars, yet breaking it as we are previously taught means we shrink the windows in which we can damage them. This just feels like we are misinforming new players then when we learn in the beginning that breaking it is a good then, only to be told in Dragon's Stand or Tangled Depths that we aren't suppose to do that.

[Dashingsteel.3410]

Perhaps they could add "hard cc" or "soft cc" right on the skill description. For example, when you look at the description of the warrior skill stomp it could have "hard cc" added to the description etc. or "control effect" "non disabling control effect" whichever is more appropriate

I do think a tutorial is needed though.

[PseudoNewb.5468]

@Game of Bones.8975 said:When fighting within a mob I never know if my CC is working.Does all CC work equally: does size matter in terms of knock-back on a giant or stationary wurm vs a smaller monster?

While they are adding a tutorial, they should also add break bar damage descriptors to all of the cc effects to indicate the numerical instant and over time effects.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

An adequate CC tutorial is one of the few changes that Anet hasn't implemented from my "Do what now?" thread. I'd still like to see such a tutorial, since the less information that players have to fight for the better it is on the community as a whole.

[Henry.5713]

I'd say we need one for sure. Doesn't matter that anyone should be able to figure out how breakbars work in due time. The fact remains that many do not know and most likely do not care to look it up or even ask others about it. It should come as a part of your training in the Living Story. Make players go through a story instance, a boot camp or whatever after they join their orders.

[Healix.5819]

It should have been a part of one the early stories. The NPCs should be shouting what to do, and for those lacking CC, alternate pickups like bars and planks should be available. The boss itself should have break bar stages where it goes immune to damage and you're fully expected to break it, so you're given plenty of time, otherwise you simply die. They also need to make the break bar damage visible, both as combat text and on the tooltips to make it obvious that something is happening.

The Queen's Gauntlet could have been a way to offer various combat tutorials. They'd need a new permanent combat arena with instanced fights (or phased areas), and with good reason to do them, like a new mastery line with points only from it. Hero (or mastery) challenges could also act as tests rather than being simple fights, but they'd need to put them into the adventure format to make them personal and easily retried.

[Gemnaid.4219]

It’s not needed. Dodging, CC, LoS, don’t stand in the fire. These are all pretty basic video game concepts. Combo fields are harder to learn than CCing when you see a blue bar.

[Plautze.6290]

To the title: Yes. Being the only one trying to break that bar while the other 29 dummie's contribution to the break bar is increasing it via upscale leads to the assumption that most OW PvE players don't know how to properly CC. Especially those Rangers using LB#4 off cooldown while I'm trying to land my 100B. CC tutorial is severely needed.

[Faaris.8013]

@Plautze.6290 said:To the title: Yes. Being the only one trying to break that bar while the other 29 dummie's contribution to the break bar is increasing it via upscale leads to the assumption that most OW PvE players don't know how to properly CC. Especially those Rangers using LB#4 off cooldown while I'm trying to land my 100B. CC tutorial is severely needed.

I once left a random boss event because there were too many low dps and no cc people around upscaling it. Not gonna spend 10 minutes on a boss that takes only 2 if you have cc and dps.

[Tambaloneus.6290]

I think if someone had simply told me the basics in the starting maps I'd have been happy. I was confused asked repeatedly like the OP about what everyone is yelling about CC while I'm throwing everything at the thing we're trying to kill and got told "go wiki" but I was like "well i'm halfway through this fight hon, cant' exactly alt-tab outta this now".

I learned, eventually, to save the very best CC's for when the bar appears so it's certainly off cooldown and has more effect but nobody told me that and who knows if that's what they mean, I just guessed really.

If I'm right and that is what they mean then a simple "Save your best stun/movement/knockback/slow skill for when the blue bar appears and if it goes down enough the mob you're killing enters a kind of weaker stunned state for a while OR it fails to do a really devastating attack and life will be great" line from someone in a big fight on the early maps would have helped immensely so when HOT was first released we didn't die so often killing matriarch when everyone screams CC! and then it takes off because half the groups typing "you want corn chips now?!" and the other half are just lobbing whatever whenever and don't have any cc's off cooldown. If I'm wrong feel free to explain because so far I have guesswork and a lot of ppl yelling "WIKI! OMG! NOOB" at me. I am not a n00b. I just suck.

So yeah, a small explanation of what it is, what skills to use and how/when would be handy because it's amazing how much of this game is assumed knowledge. I doubt new players see the breakbar before it's a huge boss that stomps them do they? Do any smaller mobs have them in a situation where the player is asked to use a stun on the thing? Be a handy thing to add to a boss on the starter maps - with an npc handily calling out some hints. At least then you can say, "if you've played the level 1-15 map you're gold for game mechanics" since those are really the point of the lower level maps. That's my 0.9c. I could be wrong it's been a while since I started a new character.

[Tambaloneus.6290]

@"Healix.5819" said:It should have been a part of one the early stories. The NPCs should be shouting what to do, and for those lacking CC, alternate pickups like bars and planks should be available. The boss itself should have break bar stages where it goes immune to damage and you're fully expected to break it, so you're given plenty of time, otherwise you simply die. They also need to make the break bar damage visible, both as combat text and on the tooltips to make it obvious that something is happening.

I should have just quoted this and said "Yes!" because you put it better than me :D