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Still no cast times for shade skills?


Crab Fear.1624

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How about a 1/4 or 1/2 s cast time on these bad boys? Kinda nasty when stunned locked they can still wipe out movement impaired players. Perhaps consider this in the skill split too

btw: shadowshot and shadow strike have no "cast time" but I can not use them while cc'd...why? (other than dev design lol)

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@"Crab Fear.1624" said:How about a 1/4 or 1/2 s cast time on these bad boys? Kinda nasty when stunned locked they can still wipe out movement impaired players. Perhaps consider this in the skill split too

btw: shadowshot and shadow strike have no "cast time" but I can not use them while cc'd...why? (other than dev design lol)

You already have a delay on them with the biggest telegraphs in the game.

Shadowshot and shadowstrike do have cast times. Not sure why they're not listed, though.

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@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:How about a 1/4 or 1/2 s cast time on these bad boys? Kinda nasty when stunned locked they can still wipe out movement impaired players. Perhaps consider this in the skill split too

btw: shadowshot and shadow strike have no "cast time" but I can not use them while cc'd...why? (other than dev design lol)

You already have a delay on them with the biggest telegraphs in the game.

Shadowshot and shadowstrike do have cast times. Not sure why they're not listed, though.

Yeah but the delay is not a cast time. It is a 1/2 second chance, but if you faceroll all the keys the delay for 1/2 is for all 3 right?

Cast time can be interupted and therefor stopped altogether. Who needs a delay if it never happens?

These are very very potent skills that can cover 2x a very large are while the char is disabled.

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@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:How about a 1/4 or 1/2 s cast time on these bad boys? Kinda nasty when stunned locked they can still wipe out movement impaired players. Perhaps consider this in the skill split too

btw: shadowshot and shadow strike have no "cast time" but I can not use them while cc'd...why? (other than dev design lol)

You already have a delay on them with the biggest telegraphs in the game.

Shadowshot and shadowstrike do have cast times. Not sure why they're not listed, though.

Yeah but the delay is not a cast time. It is a 1/2 second chance, but if you faceroll all the keys the delay for 1/2 is for all 3 right?

Cast time can be interupted and therefor stopped altogether. Who needs a delay if it never happens?

These are very very potent skills that can cover 2x a very large are while the char is disabled.

So lets put cast times on Endure Pain and Distortion as well. Sound good?

Of course not. This is because those same F skills are the Scourge's defensive tools. The delay already makes them difficult to use as such.

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@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:How about a 1/4 or 1/2 s cast time on these bad boys? Kinda nasty when stunned locked they can still wipe out movement impaired players. Perhaps consider this in the skill split too

btw: shadowshot and shadow strike have no "cast time" but I can not use them while cc'd...why? (other than dev design lol)

You already have a delay on them with the biggest telegraphs in the game.

Shadowshot and shadowstrike do have cast times. Not sure why they're not listed, though.

Yeah but the delay is not a cast time. It is a 1/2 second chance, but if you faceroll all the keys the delay for 1/2 is for all 3 right?

Cast time can be interupted and therefor stopped altogether. Who needs a delay if it never happens?

These are very very potent skills that can cover 2x a very large are while the char is disabled.

So lets put cast times on Endure Pain and Distortion as well. Sound good?

Of course not. This is because those same F skills are the Scourge's defensive tools. The delay already makes them difficult to use as such.

Oh they are defensive? Ok leave the cast time alone. I say take away the boon conversion and torment and burning, and whatever else that is offensive about them.

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@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:How about a 1/4 or 1/2 s cast time on these bad boys? Kinda nasty when stunned locked they can still wipe out movement impaired players. Perhaps consider this in the skill split too

btw: shadowshot and shadow strike have no "cast time" but I can not use them while cc'd...why? (other than dev design lol)

You already have a delay on them with the biggest telegraphs in the game.

Shadowshot and shadowstrike do have cast times. Not sure why they're not listed, though.

Yeah but the delay is not a cast time. It is a 1/2 second chance, but if you faceroll all the keys the delay for 1/2 is for all 3 right?

Cast time can be interupted and therefor stopped altogether. Who needs a delay if it never happens?

These are very very potent skills that can cover 2x a very large are while the char is disabled.

So lets put cast times on Endure Pain and Distortion as well. Sound good?

Of course not. This is because those same F skills are the Scourge's defensive tools. The delay already makes them difficult to use as such.

Shade f skills are also it's offense skills. This is another reason why scourge is just terribly designed. It's offense, defense, and boon corrupt are all the same skills. You never have to decide which thing to do, your skills just do everything at once. This is why scourge is so brain dead to play.

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@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:How about a 1/4 or 1/2 s cast time on these bad boys? Kinda nasty when stunned locked they can still wipe out movement impaired players. Perhaps consider this in the skill split too

btw: shadowshot and shadow strike have no "cast time" but I can not use them while cc'd...why? (other than dev design lol)

You already have a delay on them with the biggest telegraphs in the game.

Shadowshot and shadowstrike do have cast times. Not sure why they're not listed, though.

Yeah but the delay is not a cast time. It is a 1/2 second chance, but if you faceroll all the keys the delay for 1/2 is for all 3 right?

Cast time can be interupted and therefor stopped altogether. Who needs a delay if it never happens?

These are very very potent skills that can cover 2x a very large are while the char is disabled.

So lets put cast times on Endure Pain and Distortion as well. Sound good?

Of course not. This is because those same F skills are the Scourge's defensive tools. The delay already makes them difficult to use as such.

Oh they are defensive? Ok leave the cast time alone. I say take away the boon conversion and torment and burning, and whatever else that is offensive about them.

Or, you can react to the absurd telegraph that they have? It's not like Scourge is the only instant-cast damage in the game. Mesmers, eles, and thieves have a fair amount of it (though thieves are all loaded onto Steal). Heck, Engineers have some impressive instant-cast burst if they are set up for it.

Because these skills are the Scourge's defense, they need to remain instant-cast. I'm sorry you can't blindly use them as a punching bag like you can other varieties of Necro.

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@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:How about a 1/4 or 1/2 s cast time on these bad boys? Kinda nasty when stunned locked they can still wipe out movement impaired players. Perhaps consider this in the skill split too

btw: shadowshot and shadow strike have no "cast time" but I can not use them while cc'd...why? (other than dev design lol)

You already have a delay on them with the biggest telegraphs in the game.

Shadowshot and shadowstrike do have cast times. Not sure why they're not listed, though.

Yeah but the delay is not a cast time. It is a 1/2 second chance, but if you faceroll all the keys the delay for 1/2 is for all 3 right?

Cast time can be interupted and therefor stopped altogether. Who needs a delay if it never happens?

These are very very potent skills that can cover 2x a very large are while the char is disabled.

So lets put cast times on Endure Pain and Distortion as well. Sound good?

Of course not. This is because those same F skills are the Scourge's defensive tools. The delay already makes them difficult to use as such.

Oh they are defensive? Ok leave the cast time alone. I say take away the boon conversion and torment and burning, and whatever else that is offensive about them.

Or, you can react to the absurd telegraph that they have? It's not like Scourge is the only instant-cast damage in the game. Mesmers, eles, and thieves have a fair amount of it (though thieves are all loaded onto Steal). Heck, Engineers have some impressive instant-cast burst if they are set up for it.

Because these skills are the Scoure's defense, they need to remain instant-cast. I'm sorry you can't blindly use them as a punching bag like you can other varieties of Necro.

It's not healthy for the game. The shades cover the whole point and the offensive stuff occurs at necro as well.

I can dodge out of the area of the scourge and into his/her well placed shade. I can't dodge roll out of both of them.

The can chase you with trail of anguish, pulse their body shade while doing whatever and lead you with the placed shade.

With barrier, and weakness they can ward off attacks. The can LoS ranged, they have a staff for even more point control, and as a counter to ranged.

If they have support, forget about it.

Its mostly a bunch of insta cast, player melting, and melee denial OP mess.

Forget about killing them with condi.

In a match, the scourge player is the boss character.

fix it Cast times, or effects only occurs at the shade, or much longer cd, or a decreased radius.

This is playstyle is not fun to compete with. Add scourge on top of all the lag issues, quitters, throwers, cheaters/hackers. Thats what they bring to the competitve scene.

A modicum of skill/competence while using a scourge even by an unseasoned noobie can best a skilled veteran on another class.

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@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:How about a 1/4 or 1/2 s cast time on these bad boys? Kinda nasty when stunned locked they can still wipe out movement impaired players. Perhaps consider this in the skill split too

btw: shadowshot and shadow strike have no "cast time" but I can not use them while cc'd...why? (other than dev design lol)

You already have a delay on them with the biggest telegraphs in the game.

Shadowshot and shadowstrike do have cast times. Not sure why they're not listed, though.

Yeah but the delay is not a cast time. It is a 1/2 second chance, but if you faceroll all the keys the delay for 1/2 is for all 3 right?

Cast time can be interupted and therefor stopped altogether. Who needs a delay if it never happens?

These are very very potent skills that can cover 2x a very large are while the char is disabled.

So lets put cast times on Endure Pain and Distortion as well. Sound good?

Of course not. This is because those same F skills are the Scourge's defensive tools. The delay already makes them difficult to use as such.

Oh they are defensive? Ok leave the cast time alone. I say take away the boon conversion and torment and burning, and whatever else that is offensive about them.

Or, you can react to the absurd telegraph that they have? It's not like Scourge is the only instant-cast damage in the game. Mesmers, eles, and thieves have a fair amount of it (though thieves are all loaded onto Steal). Heck, Engineers have some impressive instant-cast burst if they are set up for it.

Because these skills are the Scoure's defense, they need to remain instant-cast. I'm sorry you can't blindly use them as a punching bag like you can other varieties of Necro.

It's not healthy for the game. The shades cover the whole point and the offensive stuff occurs at necro as well.

So perhaps if coverage is the problem, talk about hitting coverage?

I can dodge out of the area of the scourge and into his/her well placed shade. I can't dodge roll out of both of them.

You do realize both the shade and Scourge hit at the exact same time, no? If you avoid one, you automatically avoid the other.

The can chase you with trail of anguish, pulse their body shade while doing whatever and lead you with the placed shade.

Oh yes, the dreaded Swiftness chase. Oh wait, that means they blew their best stunbreak.

With barrier, and weakness they can ward off attacks. The can LoS ranged, they have a staff for even more point control, and as a counter to ranged.

The Barrier which is on the very skills you're calling to hit with a cast time? FYI, Staff hits like a pool noodle. It gets used to generate life force and the unblockable Fear+condition transfer. Nobody uses it for actual pressure.

If they have support, forget about it.

So, when another class is covering for their weaknesses, they're tough to fight? umm, duh? You're talking a 2v1. That should be difficult.

Its mostly a bunch of insta cast, player melting, and melee denial OP mess.Well, sure, if you're incapable of looking for openings.

Forget about killing them with condi.

Always been the case for Necro. I don't see why Scourge is any worse on this aspect.

In a match, the scourge player is the boss character.

Have you played recently?

fix it Cast times, or effects only occurs at the shade, or much longer cd, or a decreased radius.

Decreased radius would be healthier for the game. Ask longtime Mesmer players how mandatory Illusionary persona was before they baselined it and you'll know why "only occurs at the shade" is a bad idea. Longer cooldowns won't do anything to help people that can't handle telegraphs. Cast times just ensure the Scourge can't defend themselves at all.

This is playstyle is not fun to compete with. Add scourge on top of all the lag issues, quitters, throwers, cheaters/hackers. Thats what they bring to the competitve scene.I won't deny it's not fun to fight against in its current state, but everything else you list is completely irrelevant to class balance.

A modicum of skill/competence while using a scourge even by an unseasoned noobie can best a skilled veteran on another class.

That used to be the case. If you think it still is, I think you're overestimating your own level of skill.

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@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 I do not agree with you on a single point. Besides you are a scourge apologist, arguing with you is futile. But being interrupted by fear at a critical time is pressure.

Scourge is a hot pick, and still god-s tier easy.

Its OP. Maybe the defensive shade skills need to be seperated from the offensive skills and cast times to offensive while leaving defensive alone.

The area a shade needs to shrink.

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@Crab Fear.1624 said:@"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" I do not agree with you on a single point. Besides you are a scourge apologist, arguing with you is futile. But being interrupted by fear at a critical time is pressure.

Scourge is a hot pick, and still god-s tier easy.

Its OP. Maybe the defensive shade skills need to be seperated from the offensive skills and cast times to offensive while leaving defensive alone.

The beautiful thing about facts: they don't care if you agree with them, they're still true.

An interrupt is not pressure. "Being interrupted by fear at a critical time" isn't pressure, that should be a fight-winning play.

Scourge is significantly less popular after the last round of nerfs. Sure, it will still net you free wins at lower tiers of play, but notice how the top 100 is rather sparse on Scourges? If it were God-S tier, they would be all over that level of play, yet they're largely absent.

Is it OP? Not really. The actual numbers Scourge puts out are well within the realm of "average." Does it have problems with play? Yes, and to your credit, you did hit one of them:

The area a shade needs to shrink.This is correct. Sand Savant needs to be nerfed.

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Yet another pointless thread by a person that wants to call a build OP and won't learn how it works. Here's an actual serious tip. Like, no trolling, I honestly think that everyone needs to do this. When you think a class/build is OP, go learn how to play it. Play in in dueling arenas, play in in ranked matches, play it against people that you know are actually good. When you die with that build, you will start to learn where it shines, and where it doesn't. Don't just try it once and just say "Oh, well I'm not good, but it's still OP" Actually learn it if you want to learn to counter it. I still struggle a bit with firebrand and warrior as I don't play them ever. I legit though holosmitch was unbeatable, loaded up a meta build, and learned that I was very wrong. It's ok to be wrong, but learn WHY you are wrong instead of just calling something OP. If you can pick it up in under an hour, in actually high levels of play, not crap opponents, and still win, then maybe it's OP, because that's how it used to be, and no longer is.

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@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 I do not agree with you on a single point. Besides you are a scourge apologist, arguing with you is futile. But being interrupted by fear at a critical time is pressure.

Scourge is a hot pick, and still god-s tier easy.

Its OP. Maybe the defensive shade skills need to be seperated from the offensive skills and cast times to offensive while leaving defensive alone.

The beautiful thing about facts: they don't care if you agree with them, they're still true.

An interrupt is not pressure. "Being interrupted by fear at a critical time" isn't pressure, that should be a fight-winning play.

Scourge is significantly less popular after the last round of nerfs. Sure, it will still net you free wins at lower tiers of play, but notice how the top 100 is rather sparse on Scourges? If it were God-S tier, they would be all over that level of play, yet they're largely absent.

Is it OP? Not really. The actual numbers Scourge puts out are well within the realm of "average." Does it have problems with play? Yes, and to your credit, you did hit one of them:

The area a shade needs to shrink.This is correct. Sand Savant needs to be nerfed.

You did not state facts.

Fact:

  • 3-4 Scourges between the teams even up to platinum ranks to this day. Does significantly less popular mean we don't see two teams of five?

Fact:

  • yeas being interrupted at a critical time is pressure. you stop a burst, you have change and forced action. look up the definition in google if you don't believe me

I don't notice them to be largely absent when I watch the top streamers play, I still see them, in the same numbers as other divisions. As a matter of fact

@Egorum.9506 who commented on this post, had a discussion with video showing top 100 scourge play.

But if its truly absent at the highest of levels (its not), but then the other couple thousand or so pvpers that still use it, many of which still come to the forums and show what kinda of games they get (4 scourge and seven years ago), some of which claim to be normally top 250, top 100, top 50, how is not present?

@Kuya.6495 said:I am embarrassed for anyone still having a hard time with scourges.

Thank you I am glad you have emotional concern for me, but relax. Don't be so empathetic.

They should rework scourge all together and make sand shroud like the other shrouds. Add in a 5 skill and divide into 2-3 defensive - offensive. The skills should be able to be placed and pulse the same way like current shades and consume life force like the other shroud. Make the scourge the big yellow faced guys, maybe even larger.

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@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 I do not agree with you on a single point. Besides you are a scourge apologist, arguing with you is futile. But being interrupted by fear at a critical time is pressure.

Scourge is a hot pick, and still god-s tier easy.

Its OP. Maybe the defensive shade skills need to be seperated from the offensive skills and cast times to offensive while leaving defensive alone.

The beautiful thing about facts: they don't care if you agree with them, they're still true.

An interrupt is not pressure. "Being interrupted by fear at a critical time" isn't pressure, that should be a fight-winning play.

Scourge is significantly less popular after the last round of nerfs. Sure, it will still net you free wins at lower tiers of play, but notice how the top 100 is rather sparse on Scourges? If it were God-S tier, they would be all over that level of play, yet they're largely absent.

Is it OP? Not really. The actual numbers Scourge puts out are well within the realm of "average." Does it have problems with play? Yes, and to your credit, you did hit one of them:

The area a shade needs to shrink.This is correct. Sand Savant needs to be nerfed.

You did not state facts.

Fact:
  • 3-4 Scourges between the teams even up to platinum ranks to this day. Does significantly less popular mean we don't see two teams of five?

Fact:
  • yeas being interrupted at a critical time is pressure. you stop a burst, you have change and forced action. look up the definition in google if you don't believe me

I don't notice them to be largely absent when I watch the top streamers play, I still see them, in the same numbers as other divisions. As a matter of fact

@Egorum.9506 who commented on this post, had a discussion with video showing top 100 scourge play.

But if its truly absent at the highest of levels (its not), but then the other couple thousand or so pvpers that still use it, many of which still come to the forums and show what kinda of games they get (4 scourge and seven years ago), some of which claim to be normally top 250, top 100, top 50, how is not present?

@Kuya.6495 said:I am embarrassed for anyone still having a hard time with scourges.

Thank you I am glad you have emotional concern for me, but relax. Don't be so empathetic.

They should rework scourge all together and make sand shroud like the other shrouds. Add in a 5 skill and divide into 2-3 defensive - offensive. The skills should be able to be placed and pulse the same way like current shades and consume life force like the other shroud. Make the scourge the big yellow faced guys, maybe even larger.

I think a nerf to sand savant would be healthy, I've said so repeatedly man.

Top 100 rarely gets to fight against other top 100, most of those matches you see 1-2 plat with 2-3 gold/silver. While scourge is effective in a group fight it's hard to make the game deciding plays on one you need in order to carry. Poor mobility, poor +1. What you can do to carry on one is run offensive blood and stay on top of ressing, which can be a game changing play. But most people don't do it well enough to stay top 100. Scourge legit stops being a threat when you range and chain cc them

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@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:How about a 1/4 or 1/2 s cast time on these bad boys? Kinda nasty when stunned locked they can still wipe out movement impaired players. Perhaps consider this in the skill split too

btw: shadowshot and shadow strike have no "cast time" but I can not use them while cc'd...why? (other than dev design lol)

You already have a delay on them with the biggest telegraphs in the game.

Shadowshot and shadowstrike do have cast times. Not sure why they're not listed, though.

Yeah but the delay is not a cast time. It is a 1/2 second chance, but if you faceroll all the keys the delay for 1/2 is for all 3 right?

Cast time can be interupted and therefor stopped altogether. Who needs a delay if it never happens?

These are very very potent skills that can cover 2x a very large are while the char is disabled.

So lets put cast times on Endure Pain and Distortion as well. Sound good?

Of course not. This is because those same F skills are the Scourge's defensive tools. The delay already makes them difficult to use as such.

Oh they are defensive? Ok leave the cast time alone. I say take away the boon conversion and torment and burning, and whatever else that is offensive about them.

Or, you can react to the absurd telegraph that they have? It's not like Scourge is the only instant-cast damage in the game. Mesmers, eles, and thieves have a fair amount of it (though thieves are all loaded onto Steal). Heck, Engineers have some impressive instant-cast burst if they are set up for it.

Because these skills are the Scoure's defense, they need to remain instant-cast. I'm sorry you can't blindly use them as a punching bag like you can other varieties of Necro.

It's not healthy for the game. The shades cover the whole point and the offensive stuff occurs at necro as well.

I can dodge out of the area of the scourge and into his/her well placed shade. I can't dodge roll out of both of them.

The can chase you with trail of anguish, pulse their body shade while doing whatever and lead you with the placed shade.

With barrier, and weakness they can ward off attacks. The can LoS ranged, they have a staff for even more point control, and as a counter to ranged.

If they have support, forget about it.

Its mostly a bunch of insta cast, player melting, and melee denial OP mess.

Forget about killing them with condi.

In a match, the scourge player is the boss character.

fix it Cast times, or effects only occurs at the shade, or much longer cd, or a decreased radius.

This is playstyle is not fun to compete with. Add scourge on top of all the lag issues, quitters, throwers, cheaters/hackers. Thats what they bring to the competitve scene.

A modicum of skill/competence while using a scourge even by an unseasoned noobie can best a skilled veteran on another class.

Or you could just range them down and all your problems vanish in a blink of an eye. They can't out-heal through it, they can't out-barrier it, and they can't survive even if 2-3 FB's are throwing healing at them; so there really is no issue. I'm guessing you main a thief, so here is a better idea; every time a thief breaks stealth to attack, add a 1-2s delay locking them into place allowing the player to react and dodge/interrupt it. Then stop players from stealthing while they are in combat. Those are far far better changes than what you're proposing.

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@DeadlySynz.3471 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:How about a 1/4 or 1/2 s cast time on these bad boys? Kinda nasty when stunned locked they can still wipe out movement impaired players. Perhaps consider this in the skill split too

btw: shadowshot and shadow strike have no "cast time" but I can not use them while cc'd...why? (other than dev design lol)

You already have a delay on them with the biggest telegraphs in the game.

Shadowshot and shadowstrike do have cast times. Not sure why they're not listed, though.

Yeah but the delay is not a cast time. It is a 1/2 second chance, but if you faceroll all the keys the delay for 1/2 is for all 3 right?

Cast time can be interupted and therefor stopped altogether. Who needs a delay if it never happens?

These are very very potent skills that can cover 2x a very large are while the char is disabled.

So lets put cast times on Endure Pain and Distortion as well. Sound good?

Of course not. This is because those same F skills are the Scourge's defensive tools. The delay already makes them difficult to use as such.

Oh they are defensive? Ok leave the cast time alone. I say take away the boon conversion and torment and burning, and whatever else that is offensive about them.

Or, you can react to the absurd telegraph that they have? It's not like Scourge is the only instant-cast damage in the game. Mesmers, eles, and thieves have a fair amount of it (though thieves are all loaded onto Steal). Heck, Engineers have some impressive instant-cast burst if they are set up for it.

Because these skills are the Scoure's defense, they need to remain instant-cast. I'm sorry you can't blindly use them as a punching bag like you can other varieties of Necro.

It's not healthy for the game. The shades cover the whole point and the offensive stuff occurs at necro as well.

I can dodge out of the area of the scourge and into his/her well placed shade. I can't dodge roll out of both of them.

The can chase you with trail of anguish, pulse their body shade while doing whatever and lead you with the placed shade.

With barrier, and weakness they can ward off attacks. The can LoS ranged, they have a staff for even more point control, and as a counter to ranged.

If they have support, forget about it.

Its mostly a bunch of insta cast, player melting, and melee denial OP mess.

Forget about killing them with condi.

In a match, the scourge player is the boss character.

fix it Cast times, or effects only occurs at the shade, or much longer cd, or a decreased radius.

This is playstyle is not fun to compete with. Add scourge on top of all the lag issues, quitters, throwers, cheaters/hackers. Thats what they bring to the competitve scene.

A modicum of skill/competence while using a scourge even by an unseasoned noobie can best a skilled veteran on another class.

Or you could just range them down and all your problems vanish in a blink of an eye. They can't out-heal through it, they can't out-barrier it, and they can't survive even if 2-3 FB's are throwing healing at them; so there really is no issue. I'm guessing you main a thief, so here is a better idea; every time a thief breaks stealth to attack, add a 1-2s delay locking them into place allowing the player to react and dodge/interrupt it. Then stop players from stealthing while they are in combat. Those are far far better changes than what you're proposing.

I think this is a great idea! I hate fighting thieves and refuse to play one so I dont understand how they work. And why should I have to, I don't want to play that class, just remove them anet!

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@DeadlySynz.3471 said:Or you could just range them down and all your problems vanish in a blink of an eye. They can't out-heal through it, they can't out-barrier it, and they can't survive even if 2-3 FB's are throwing healing at them; so there really is no issue. I'm guessing you main a thief, so here is a better idea; every time a thief breaks stealth to attack, add a 1-2s delay locking them into place allowing the player to react and dodge/interrupt it. Then stop players from stealthing while they are in combat. Those are far far better changes than what you're proposing.

This made me chuckle. My signature says I main thief. What happened to one voice?

@Egorum.9506 said:

I think this is a great idea! I hate fighting thieves and refuse to play one so I dont understand how they work. And why should I have to, I don't want to play that class, just remove them anet!

You refuse to play thief? Why? I dabble in necro (for knowledge purposes), it can be fun if I am not using scourge.

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@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:Or you could just range them down and all your problems vanish in a blink of an eye. They can't out-heal through it, they can't out-barrier it, and they can't survive even if 2-3 FB's are throwing healing at them; so there really is no issue. I'm guessing you main a thief, so here is a better idea; every time a thief breaks stealth to attack, add a 1-2s delay locking them into place allowing the player to react and dodge/interrupt it. Then stop players from stealthing while they are in combat. Those are far far better changes than what you're proposing.

This made me chuckle. My signature says I main thief. What happened to one voice?

I think this is a great idea! I hate fighting thieves and refuse to play one so I dont understand how they work. And why should I have to, I don't want to play that class, just remove them anet!

You refuse to play thief? Why? I dabble in necro (for knowledge purposes), it can be fun if I am not using scourge.

My sarcasm game is strong man. I have over 1k matches on thief =D

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@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:Sure, it will still net you free wins at lower tiers of play, but notice how the top 100 is rather sparse on Scourges? If it were God-S tier, they would be all over that level of play, yet they're largely absent.

Is this a joke? The entirety of platinum is drowning in Scourges, and the class does has a leaderboard representation that is higher than the majority of elites in the game.

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@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:How about a 1/4 or 1/2 s cast time on these bad boys? Kinda nasty when stunned locked they can still wipe out movement impaired players. Perhaps consider this in the skill split too

btw: shadowshot and shadow strike have no "cast time" but I can not use them while cc'd...why? (other than dev design lol)

You already have a delay on them with the biggest telegraphs in the game.

Shadowshot and shadowstrike do have cast times. Not sure why they're not listed, though.

Yeah but the delay is not a cast time. It is a 1/2 second chance, but if you faceroll all the keys the delay for 1/2 is for all 3 right?

Cast time can be interupted and therefor stopped altogether. Who needs a delay if it never happens?

These are very very potent skills that can cover 2x a very large are while the char is disabled.

So lets put cast times on Endure Pain and Distortion as well. Sound good?

Of course not. This is because those same F skills are the Scourge's defensive tools. The delay already makes them difficult to use as such.

Endure pain is a self sustain skill not a damage skill or a controll skill...its a self sustain that is needed to prevent the hurt. And it doeant even work against condis. ur idea is stupids. And to prevent condi hirt resistance skills do have a cast time sooo

Choose another skill to have acast time.

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@Eddbopkins.2630 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:How about a 1/4 or 1/2 s cast time on these bad boys? Kinda nasty when stunned locked they can still wipe out movement impaired players. Perhaps consider this in the skill split too

btw: shadowshot and shadow strike have no "cast time" but I can not use them while cc'd...why? (other than dev design lol)

You already have a delay on them with the biggest telegraphs in the game.

Shadowshot and shadowstrike do have cast times. Not sure why they're not listed, though.

Yeah but the delay is not a cast time. It is a 1/2 second chance, but if you faceroll all the keys the delay for 1/2 is for all 3 right?

Cast time can be interupted and therefor stopped altogether. Who needs a delay if it never happens?

These are very very potent skills that can cover 2x a very large are while the char is disabled.

So lets put cast times on Endure Pain and Distortion as well. Sound good?

Of course not. This is because those same F skills are the Scourge's defensive tools. The delay already makes them difficult to use as such.

Endure pain is a self sustain skill not a damage skill or a controll skill...its a self sustain that is needed to prevent the hurt. And it doeant even work against condis. ur idea is stupids. And to prevent condi hirt resistance skills do have a cast time sooo

Choose another skill to have acast time.

That's the point: it's a stupid idea. There are plenty of other instant-cast skills that do hard CC, damage, both, or even some combination of those plus sustain. Any and all mantras, for example. Quite a few signet actives do one or more of these. There's a few weapon skills as well that fit this description. No Scourge skill does more than two, which is well in-line with comparable skills.

@Crinn.7864 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:Sure, it will still net you free wins at lower tiers of play, but notice how the top 100 is rather sparse on Scourges? If it were God-S tier, they would be all over that level of play, yet they're largely absent.

Is this a joke? The entirety of platinum is drowning in Scourges, and the class does has a leaderboard representation that is higher than the majority of elites in the game.

Last I checked, it was 3 Scourges on the top 100. It's not even possible for that to have a higher representation than the majority of elites.

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@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:How about a 1/4 or 1/2 s cast time on these bad boys? Kinda nasty when stunned locked they can still wipe out movement impaired players. Perhaps consider this in the skill split too

btw: shadowshot and shadow strike have no "cast time" but I can not use them while cc'd...why? (other than dev design lol)

You already have a delay on them with the biggest telegraphs in the game.

Shadowshot and shadowstrike do have cast times. Not sure why they're not listed, though.

Yeah but the delay is not a cast time. It is a 1/2 second chance, but if you faceroll all the keys the delay for 1/2 is for all 3 right?

Cast time can be interupted and therefor stopped altogether. Who needs a delay if it never happens?

These are very very potent skills that can cover 2x a very large are while the char is disabled.

So lets put cast times on Endure Pain and Distortion as well. Sound good?

Of course not. This is because those same F skills are the Scourge's defensive tools. The delay already makes them difficult to use as such.

Endure pain is a self sustain skill not a damage skill or a controll skill...its a self sustain that is needed to prevent the hurt. And it doeant even work against condis. ur idea is stupids. And to prevent condi hirt resistance skills do have a cast time sooo

Choose another skill to have acast time.

That's the point: it's a stupid idea. There are plenty of other instant-cast skills that do hard CC, damage, both, or even some combination of those plus sustain. Any and all mantras, for example. Quite a few signet actives do one or more of these. There's a few weapon skills as well that fit this description. No Scourge skill does more than two, which is well in-line with comparable skills.

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:Sure, it will still net you free wins at lower tiers of play, but notice how the top 100 is rather sparse on Scourges? If it were God-S tier, they would be all over that level of play, yet they're largely absent.

Is this a joke? The entirety of platinum is drowning in Scourges, and the class does has a leaderboard representation that is higher than the majority of elites in the game.

Last I checked, it was 3 Scourges on the top 100. It's not even possible for that to have a higher representation than the majority of elites.

Buut to have a fear a cc skill every 15 seconds that cant be interupted is a bad design choice and needs to be changed. Plus iys animation is the same as all the others so picking it out amoungst the spam cuz come on call it as it is spamming is impossible

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