PSA: Thick Healthbars for Party will only show for the real Mesmer, not the clones.

[shippage.1983]

Not sure if this is intended or not. If you had trouble spotting the real mesmer, this option makes the matchup much less annoying. The thick healthbar will only show up for the real mesmer, so you'll instantly be able to spot the real one from the clones.

This is a pretty big QoL for PvP imo, a good player should instantly spot Mesmers already so it doesn't really affect the balance of the class. If this was unintended, I hope they keep it because it helps a lot. I say that as Mesmer main as well.

edit: it's not intentional, now it's getting patched. rippp

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

I thought thick healthbars only showed up for allies? This doesn't sound like intended behavior.

[shippage.1983]

@"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:I thought thick healthbars only showed up for allies? This doesn't sound like intended behavior.

It shows up for enemies as well in PvP. It's actually a huge QoL for the gamemode and makes the game far more visible. I reccomend both enabling "Always show Thick Health Bars" as well.

[Urejt.5648]

if u mark real mesmer, mark also always stays on target

[Math.5123]

@Urejt.5648 said:if u mark real mesmer, mark also always stays on target

Unless they stealth

[Jace al Thor.6745]

@Gaile Gray.6029 @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 is this intended behavior or can we expect a hit fix coming for it? It’s potentially game breaking for a class designed around confusing the opponent with clones and illusions if they can pin point the player at will.

[Curunen.8729]

What? That's ridiculous if intended - breaks the whole point of mesmer, similar to how the old world completion star used to be.

Ideally it would also be nice (and this is from wvw too) for everything on the mesmer's buff bar to be duplicated on every clone - so it should be impossible to tell from the health bar and status bar which is real...

Players should have to use skill to distinguish the real mesmer through positioning and movement - and this allows for some form of "pretending to be a clone" gameplay, however ineffective it may be.

[Aza.2105]

@"Curunen.8729" said:Players should have to use skill to distinguish the real mesmer through positioning and movement - and this allows for some form of "pretending to be a clone" gameplay, however ineffective it may be.

Nice try. Mean while the Mesmer has stealth, evade spam, invul and block spam. They have enough defense at this point.

Being able to see the real mesmers health bar is a fantastic change.

[NICENIKESHOE.7128]

@Aza.2105 said:

@"Curunen.8729" said:Players should have to use skill to distinguish the real mesmer through positioning and movement - and this allows for some form of "pretending to be a clone" gameplay, however ineffective it may be.

Nice try. Mean while the Mesmer has stealth, evade spam, invul and block spam. They have enough defense at this point.

Being able to see the real mesmers health bar is a fantastic change.

Regardless of other utilities mesmer has, this clearly contradicts the purpose of clones and I highly doubt it is intended.

Stop trying to make this a "nerf mesmer" thread when it is discussing a new issue raised by the new feature.

[Jace al Thor.6745]

@NICENIKESHOE.7128 said:

@"Curunen.8729" said:Players should have to use skill to distinguish the real mesmer through positioning and movement - and this allows for some form of "pretending to be a clone" gameplay, however ineffective it may be.

Nice try. Mean while the Mesmer has stealth, evade spam, invul and block spam. They have enough defense at this point.

Being able to see the real mesmers health bar is a fantastic change.

Regardless of other utilities mesmer has, this clearly contradicts the purpose of clones and I highly doubt it is intended.

Stop trying to make this a "nerf mesmer" thread when it is discussing a new issue raised by the new feature.

Here I am trying to figure out what build has all that in one build...

But Nike it honestly doesn’t matter. As easy as it is to find the real Mesmer, if someone is unable to do so it is a L2P issues this late in the game. Either they’ve not taken the time to learn the skills and builds to know how to counter them or they’re a new player. Regardless of player skill, this change can in no way be intended and I expect a fix be out by tomorrow at the latest. If not then they should go with Cururen’s suggestion, or give us back prenerf chaos field, chaos armor, retaliation, etc because we’re going to be hit which isn’t the design of the class.

[NICENIKESHOE.7128]

Indeed it doesn't really affect people skill/combat wise unless we're talking about lowest bronze. But thematically it goes without saying that this is a mechanical error. If clones serve no purpose other than being pet resource, then there's no point using up server/client memory to copy player aesthetics to "look exactly like their caster" as the main website indicates. However I don't believe giving clones all mesmer buffs would be the way to go, seems like complicating a simple issue even further.

[Jace al Thor.6745]

@"NICENIKESHOE.7128" said:Indeed it doesn't really affect people skill/combat wise unless we're talking about lowest bronze. But thematically it goes without saying that this is a mechanical error. If clones serve no purpose other than being pet resource, then there's no point using up server/client memory to copy player aesthetics to "look exactly like their caster" as the main website indicates. However I don't believe giving clones all mesmer buffs would be the way to go, seems like complicating a simple issue even further.

Maybe not. It’s an interesting idea though since they’re supposed to be look a likes. But that’s a conversation for a different sub forum

[Aza.2105]

@Jace al Thor.6745 said:As easy as it is to find the real Mesmer, if someone is unable to do so it is a L2P issues this late in the game.

Ok, so its easy to find the real mesmer. So why is the health bar showing on the real mesmer a problem then?

[saerni.2584]

Practically speaking, the annoying thing is more the target break. With a lot of clones standing around in the way it can take a little to retarget the Mesmer. Identifying them is easy because of boons, a Deadeye mark if playing DE and that they move differently from the rest of the clones.

I don’t see how seeing a health bar is that game breaking and I do see how having clone spam with large hp bars could be visually displeasing.

[Jace al Thor.6745]

@Aza.2105 said:

@Jace al Thor.6745 said:As easy as it is to find the real Mesmer, if someone is unable to do so it is a L2P issues this late in the game.

Ok, so its easy to find the real mesmer. So why is the health bar showing on the real mesmer a problem then?

1- it’s thematically game breaking as Nike states above.

2- it takes a couple seconds to spot the real Mesmer not hard to do. But those few seconds is what allows for bursts to be set up. Without them it would be too easy to pressure the Mesmer. The entire methodology behind Mesmer is to confuse the enemy and not be hit which is why we’ve lost things like retaliation.

[Aza.2105]

@Jace al Thor.6745 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@Jace al Thor.6745 said:As easy as it is to find the real Mesmer, if someone is unable to do so it is a L2P issues this late in the game.

Ok, so its easy to find the real mesmer. So why is the health bar showing on the real mesmer a problem then?

1- it’s thematically game breaking as Nike states above.

2- it takes a couple seconds to spot the real Mesmer not hard to do. But those few seconds is what allows for bursts to be set up. Without them it would be too easy to pressure the Mesmer. The entire methodology behind Mesmer is to confuse the enemy and not be hit which is why we’ve lost things like retaliation.

The game has changed since launch. Yea their clones dying was suppose to be a "weakness" as well as lack of consistent condition cleanse. But that isn't the case any longer.

As the game is now, showing the enemy Mesmer health is a good thing. When and if they tone down burst, spam (offensive and defense), I'd agree with you that the health bars should be displayed on all clones. Until then, nope.

[Jace al Thor.6745]

@Aza.2105 said:

@Jace al Thor.6745 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@Jace al Thor.6745 said:As easy as it is to find the real Mesmer, if someone is unable to do so it is a L2P issues this late in the game.

Ok, so its easy to find the real mesmer. So why is the health bar showing on the real mesmer a problem then?

1- it’s thematically game breaking as Nike states above.

2- it takes a couple seconds to spot the real Mesmer not hard to do. But those few seconds is what allows for bursts to be set up. Without them it would be too easy to pressure the Mesmer. The entire methodology behind Mesmer is to confuse the enemy and not be hit which is why we’ve lost things like retaliation.

The game has changed since launch. Yea their clones dying was suppose to be a "weakness" as well as lack of consistent condition cleanse. But that isn't the case any longer.

As the game is now, showing the enemy Mesmer health is a good thing. When and if they tone down burst, spam (offensive and defense), I'd agree with you that the health bars should be displayed on all clones. Until then, nope.

Then we’ll have to agree to disagree on it. Even with a game and profession wide nerf Mesmer will still make it hard for inexperienced players to attack. It would take a much more involved rework to do anything about it.

[Benjamin Arnold.3457]

Enemy clones in PvP should get thick health bars too. This is good ole fashioned oversight by yours truly. Won't make it into a hotfix but I'll get something ASAP. This will only apply to enemy players in PvP.

[Jace al Thor.6745]

@Benjamin Arnold.3457 said:Enemy clones in PvP should get thick health bars too. This is good ole fashioned oversight by yours truly. Won't make it into a hotfix but I'll get something ASAP. This will only apply to enemy players in PvP.

Glad to hear it’s not intentional and thanks for letting us know a fix is being worked on.

[Urejt.5648]

its sad u fix all bugs exept deadeye's: poison stack for traited mark, rifle 4 doesnt work when immobilized by thief.

[DMO.4158]

Oh no!

We can quickly discern who the real mesmer is without having additional decision making forced on us while they 100-0 you out of stealth.

The horror!

I don't think anyone but diehard mesmer mains will see any issue here. Hiding among ai controlled clones and the visual vomit that comes with it is about as lame as it gets in pvp.

At least if I'm fighting a necro I know what I'm targeting and he can't reset the fight 80 times or hide amongst visual noise.

Mesmers are not fun to play against. Period.

[Razor.6392]

Of course this will be immediately fixed. Can't afford to anger the almighty mesmer overlords.

[brannigan.9831]

This needs to stay.

[Dreams.3128]

Because you know, revealing the mesmer during combat is SO bad.

Oh boo fucking hoo, now they won't rely on clone spamming as much and they will actually have to move, instead of afking on greatsword.

Sheesh.

Mesmer can truly do no wrong.

[Benjamin Arnold.3457]

@Lilyanna.9361 said:Because you know, revealing the mesmer during combat is SO bad.

Oh boo kitten hoo, now they won't rely on clone spamming as much and they will actually have to move, instead of afking on greatsword.

Sheesh.

Mesmer can truly do no wrong.

This defeats one of the design purposes of mesmer clones. There's other ways to figure out the real clone, use those.