Best Viper Alternative?

[Ouija.1684]

I haven’t started crafting yet (just weaponsmithing) and don’t have access to viper or ascended gear at the moment, so I’m trying to decide what’s the best option to buy off the Trading Post in the meantime:

CarrionRabidRampager

Combo of all three?

Hmmm...

[Shirlias.8104]

Can u make the sinister stats ( they should require the core game only )?https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sinister_Orichalcum_Imbued_Inscription

It's Viper without expertise

[blambidy.3216]

Idk what’s the name but before I did vipers. It was power the highest stat. Precision, condition damage. That’s what I used before I got yassith gear.

If your drafting is high to make ascended. Buy really low expensive insignias and inscriptions. Then use those to make ascended, and after make viper inscription and insignias and convert them.

However to be able to craft them just farm the tarir meta. And sooner or later you will get them.

[Ensign.2189]

Which class? Carrion and Rabid are going to be very close in performance.

[Ouija.1684]

@Ensign.2189 said:Which class? Carrion and Rabid are going to be very close in performance.

ScourgeMirageSoulbeastFirebrandRenegadeDaredevil

[jojorne.2175]

if u have the expansion u dont need to have the ascended version of it.u can craft anything and use the exotic to convert the ascended to vipers.

[Ensign.2189]

Scourge and Mirage benefit more from Rabid; Firebrand and Daredevil from Carrion. Renegade and Soulbeast I do not know in enough detail to judge between the two.

[SkullsandRoses.5803]

Soulbeast is on vipers gear ... theres a really great and in depth vid on youtube and ive converted over ... so far its everything I hoped it would be and more. You can also start farming LWS3 for ascended vipers trinkets. Winterberries in Bitterfrost Frontier is a great place to start. Can eqiup both rings if you have Attunement which isnt hard to get nor expensive to do. they have an aquabreather, earrings, and a backpack ... all maps have stuff to get. You can always start beefing up with trinkets/accessories while waiting for the gear.

[thehipone.6812]

The answer is usually rabid. Numbers here:https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/78zzn1/science_why_you_should_almost_always_use_rabid/

Pieces of exotic, named rabid armor are usually about~~ 50 silver.~~ Edit: holy cow, they're down to the 30 silver range. Toss in undead or krait runes and you have a super-cheap gear option that will serve you well until you get vipers.

[Elva.6372]

@"thehipone.6812" said:The answer is usually rabid. Numbers here:https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/78zzn1/science_why_you_should_almost_always_use_rabid/

Pieces of exotic, named rabid armor are usually about~~ 50 silver.~~ Edit: holy cow, they're down to the 30 silver range. Toss in undead or krait runes and you have a super-cheap gear option that will serve you well until you get vipers.

I recently went full Rabid on my Condi Scourge after struggling a bit to maximize some desired attributes...I am very pleased with the results...having more than 2k Condi Damage, high armor and the incidental 50% crit chance.

It's counter intuitive for me as I never associated "precision" with condition builds, but somehow this armor set maximizes my damage without making me a glass cannon.

[Voltekka.2375]

Sinister also works. In fact, several parts of sinister armor/trinkets used to be part of meta builds

[thehipone.6812]

@Elva.6372 said:

@"thehipone.6812" said:The answer is usually rabid. Numbers here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/78zzn1/science_why_you_should_almost_always_use_rabid/

Pieces of exotic, named rabid armor are usually about~~ 50 silver.~~ Edit: holy cow, they're down to the 30 silver range. Toss in undead or krait runes and you have a super-cheap gear option that will serve you well until you get vipers.

I recently went full Rabid on my Condi Scourge after struggling a bit to maximize some desired attributes...I am very pleased with the results...having more than 2k Condi Damage, high armor and the incidental 50% crit chance.

It's counter intuitive for me as I never associated "precision" with condition builds, but somehow this armor set maximizes my damage without making me a glass cannon.

Necro gets extra bonus from https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Target_the_Weak trait that converts precision into condition dmg.

@"Voltekka.2375" said:Sinister also works. In fact, several parts of sinister armor/trinkets used to be part of meta builds

Sinister does work and can be used for min/maxing with vipers, but sinister does not fill the "ridiculously cheap stand in while I work up to Viper's ascended" role like rabid does. 4.8 gold for heavy sinister chest vs. 31 silver for rabid (galrath).

[PeacefulWarrior.2867]

@Purgatori.3645 said:Soulbeast is on vipers gear ... theres a really great and in depth vid on youtube and ive converted over ... so far its everything I hoped it would be and more. You can also start farming LWS3 for ascended vipers trinkets. Winterberries in Bitterfrost Frontier is a great place to start. Can eqiup both rings if you have Attunement which isnt hard to get nor expensive to do. they have an aquabreather, earrings, and a backpack ... all maps have stuff to get. You can always start beefing up with trinkets/accessories while waiting for the gear.

What video?..

[Grimmtooth.4163]

It doesn't quite fit the buy off the TP part but take a look at Grieving if you have PoF.POW/COND/pre/fer makes it viper's 1st cousin. It is actually BiS for meta Firebrand & any mixed damage build.the mosaics only run 30-40 silver but you have to craft it.

[Pifil.5193]

@Grimmtooth.4163 said:It doesn't quite fit the buy off the TP part but take a look at Grieving if you have PoF.POW/COND/pre/fer makes it viper's 1st cousin. It is actually BiS for meta Firebrand & any mixed damage build.the mosaics only run 30-40 silver but you have to craft it.

I believe you can only craft the ascended version, the exotic one needs to be bought for elegy mosaics, although if love to be told otherwise.

It's pretty much the best open world pve condi set for just about any condi build, IMO, and I mostly do own world pve. Increasing the duration of a condi isn't that useful when the mobs tend to die long before they would wear off. A few crits will help a lot more.

[Wisty.4135]

Cheap and dirty? I use Carrion for most everything condi based until I can get viper's UNLESS I have a build that is buffed by crit. Then it's a blend of Carrion/Rabid, or straight rabid depending on the class... Krait runes, Undead runes, or Elementalist are a workable set.

In a pinch, Dire works for a tankier setup, but I wouldn't recommend it for long. It'll underperform in damage and moat classes don't need the passive defenses as much.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Grimmtooth.4163 said:It doesn't quite fit the buy off the TP part but take a look at Grieving if you have PoF.POW/COND/pre/fer makes it viper's 1st cousin. It is actually BiS for meta Firebrand & any mixed damage build.the mosaics only run 30-40 silver but you have to craft it.

I believe you can only craft the ascended version, the exotic one needs to be bought for elegy mosaics, although if love to be told otherwise.

It's pretty much the best open world pve condi set for just about any condi build, IMO, and I mostly do own world pve. Increasing the duration of a condi isn't that useful when the mobs tend to die long before they would wear off. A few crits will help a lot more.

BiS? That would depend on what you're doing, wouldn't it? There's a significant cost associated with taking from condi damage and giving to power damage in a condi build. You're only going to see a slight improvement in trash clearing speed this way because the power damage contribution on a condi build is so low. On the other hand, when you get into lengthier fights the loss of condi duration will greatly decrease your damage output while that ferocity will count for less and less.

If trash clearing is an issue for you with a condi build, I think going with a power build is a much better option than pretending you're a hybrid when you aren't!

[Pifil.5193]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Grimmtooth.4163 said:It doesn't quite fit the buy off the TP part but take a look at Grieving if you have PoF.POW/COND/pre/fer makes it viper's 1st cousin. It is actually BiS for meta Firebrand & any mixed damage build.the mosaics only run 30-40 silver but you have to craft it.

I believe you can only craft the ascended version, the exotic one needs to be bought for elegy mosaics, although if love to be told otherwise.

It's pretty much the best open world pve condi set for just about any condi build, IMO, and I mostly do own world pve. Increasing the duration of a condi isn't that useful when the mobs tend to die long before they would wear off. A few crits will help a lot more.

BiS? That would depend on what you're doing, wouldn't it? There's a significant cost associated with taking from condi damage and giving to power damage in a condi build. You're only going to see a slight improvement in trash clearing speed this way because the power damage contribution on a condi build is so low. On the other hand, when you get into lengthier fights the loss of condi duration will greatly decrease your damage output while that ferocity will count for less and less.

If trash clearing is an issue for you with a condi build, I think going with a power build is a much better option than pretending you're a hybrid when you aren't!

As I said, best for open world PvE where the biggest problem I encounter tends to be getting in enough damage to get kill credit once player numbers ramp up. The power component gets you there while not taking too much away from your condition damage. Anyway, IMO.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@Pifil.5193 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Grimmtooth.4163 said:It doesn't quite fit the buy off the TP part but take a look at Grieving if you have PoF.POW/COND/pre/fer makes it viper's 1st cousin. It is actually BiS for meta Firebrand & any mixed damage build.the mosaics only run 30-40 silver but you have to craft it.

I believe you can only craft the ascended version, the exotic one needs to be bought for elegy mosaics, although if love to be told otherwise.

It's pretty much the best open world pve condi set for just about any condi build, IMO, and I mostly do own world pve. Increasing the duration of a condi isn't that useful when the mobs tend to die long before they would wear off. A few crits will help a lot more.

BiS? That would depend on what you're doing, wouldn't it? There's a significant cost associated with taking from condi damage and giving to power damage in a condi build. You're only going to see a slight improvement in trash clearing speed this way because the power damage contribution on a condi build is so low. On the other hand, when you get into lengthier fights the loss of condi duration will greatly decrease your damage output while that ferocity will count for less and less.

If trash clearing is an issue for you with a condi build, I think going with a power build is a much better option than pretending you're a hybrid when you aren't!

As I said, best for

open world

PvE where the biggest problem I encounter tends to be getting in enough damage to get kill credit once player numbers ramp up. The power component gets you there while not taking too much away from your condition damage. Anyway, IMO.

Right. I get you. Just saying it depends what you're doing. As I play Condi but typically play solo or command small squads, tagging isn't a concern for me. But if it were, I think I would prefer a power setup. Grieving stats seem like we're trying to make a Condi build into a weak power build. ..I just don't see this paying off outside of the zerg and it's not ideal there either.

[Voltekka.2375]

@thehipone.6812 said:

@Elva.6372 said:

@thehipone.6812 said:The answer is usually rabid. Numbers here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/78zzn1/science_why_you_should_almost_always_use_rabid/

Pieces of exotic, named rabid armor are usually about~~ 50 silver.~~ Edit: holy cow, they're down to the 30 silver range. Toss in undead or krait runes and you have a super-cheap gear option that will serve you well until you get vipers.

I recently went full Rabid on my Condi Scourge after struggling a bit to maximize some desired attributes...I am very pleased with the results...having more than 2k Condi Damage, high armor and the incidental 50% crit chance.

It's counter intuitive for me as I never associated "precision" with condition builds, but somehow this armor set maximizes my damage without making me a glass cannon.

Necro gets extra bonus from

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Target_the_Weak

trait that converts precision into condition dmg.

@"Voltekka.2375" said:Sinister also works. In fact, several parts of sinister armor/trinkets used to be part of meta builds

Sinister does work and can be used for min/maxing with vipers, but sinister does not fill the "ridiculously cheap stand in while I work up to Viper's ascended" role like rabid does. 4.8 gold for heavy sinister chest vs. 31 silver for rabid (galrath).

Well, there is truth in what you say, ofc, but the topic is "Best viper alternative?"

[Pifil.5193]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@"Grimmtooth.4163" said:It doesn't quite fit the buy off the TP part but take a look at Grieving if you have PoF.POW/COND/pre/fer makes it viper's 1st cousin. It is actually BiS for meta Firebrand & any mixed damage build.the mosaics only run 30-40 silver but you have to craft it.

I believe you can only craft the ascended version, the exotic one needs to be bought for elegy mosaics, although if love to be told otherwise.

It's pretty much the best open world pve condi set for just about any condi build, IMO, and I mostly do own world pve. Increasing the duration of a condi isn't that useful when the mobs tend to die long before they would wear off. A few crits will help a lot more.

BiS? That would depend on what you're doing, wouldn't it? There's a significant cost associated with taking from condi damage and giving to power damage in a condi build. You're only going to see a slight improvement in trash clearing speed this way because the power damage contribution on a condi build is so low. On the other hand, when you get into lengthier fights the loss of condi duration will greatly decrease your damage output while that ferocity will count for less and less.

If trash clearing is an issue for you with a condi build, I think going with a power build is a much better option than pretending you're a hybrid when you aren't!

As I said, best for

open world

PvE where the biggest problem I encounter tends to be getting in enough damage to get kill credit once player numbers ramp up. The power component gets you there while not taking too much away from your condition damage. Anyway, IMO.

Right. I get you. Just saying it depends what you're doing. As I play Condi but typically play solo or command small squads, tagging isn't a concern for me. But if it were, I think I would prefer a power setup. Grieving stats seem like we're trying to make a Condi build into a weak power build. ..I just don't see this paying off outside of the zerg and it's not ideal there either.

I think you're right there it definitely depends and power is probably just generally more effective for what I said (and yeah, thinking more about it I realise that Grieving sure won't be "best" a whole lot of the time).

[Opopanax.1803]

@"thehipone.6812" said:The answer is usually rabid. Numbers here:https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/78zzn1/science_why_you_should_almost_always_use_rabid/

Pieces of exotic, named rabid armor are usually about~~ 50 silver.~~ Edit: holy cow, they're down to the 30 silver range. Toss in undead or krait runes and you have a super-cheap gear option that will serve you well until you get vipers.

This is true unless you are going for a power / condi hybrid. In which case I love rampagers, especially if you take ferocity and power talents! Rampagers is far better in open world group play where things die quickly and you want to have power as well.

Rabid assumes Condi only.

[ReaverKane.7598]

@"thehipone.6812" said:The answer is usually rabid. Numbers here:https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/78zzn1/science_why_you_should_almost_always_use_rabid/

Pieces of exotic, named rabid armor are usually about~~ 50 silver.~~ Edit: holy cow, they're down to the 30 silver range. Toss in undead or krait runes and you have a super-cheap gear option that will serve you well until you get vipers.

Well, that test didn't use Sinister (which was the best condi damage set before Viper) or Carrion... Wouldn't call it much of a final answer.

[Opopanax.1803]

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@"thehipone.6812" said:The answer is usually rabid. Numbers here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/78zzn1/science_why_you_should_almost_always_use_rabid/

Pieces of exotic, named rabid armor are usually about~~ 50 silver.~~ Edit: holy cow, they're down to the 30 silver range. Toss in undead or krait runes and you have a super-cheap gear option that will serve you well until you get vipers.

Well, that test didn't use Sinister (which was the best condi damage set before Viper) or Carrion... Wouldn't call it much of a final answer.

It also assumes full condi builds with no power traits. It really doesn't test condi and power hybrid damage types.

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

Sinister are the old condition stats where all the dps goes into conditonThe Viper HoT stat is a trade-off between normal damage and condition(duration)Grieving (I think PoF stats) are between Zoja stats and Sinister it has a bit less normal dps then Viper but the beauty I see with them is when you do only one kind of conditions you can use runes and sigils to increase duration as well. You can also mix all this