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Am i missing something here?


silverfox.1056

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So I have this awesome healing build (in my opinion) for my tempest, its worked great in raids, fractals, wvw and pve. So, like anyone, I wanted to try it out in pvp. However, there is no option for minstrel stats or benevolence sigils/transference sigils. Why isn't that an option? All the sigils that are supplied are very lack luster and wouldn't help me out my build at all. So is healing not a thing in PVP or have the dev's just forgot about those certain stat's? I'm just confused. I realize I could run Magi, but I wanted more sustain and toughness from Minstrels. I guess I'm just not going to do PVP ever now if I cant even play the build I want.

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Thank God it is not there.If you'd spend a little time around PvP you'd be thanking the Heavens, Satan or flying Spaghetti monster that those stats and sigils are not in sPvP, because it would allow for absolutely and ultimately broken bunker/heal Meta that would completely delete every single point of PvPing.

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@Alatar.7364 Listen bud, brother. Why would having a healer bunker be a bad thing? I would love to see a healing meta in PVP, maybe I would play it more often. It just seems incredibly unfair that I cant play exactly what I want to play. That's all I'm saying. PVP is suppose to be about making friends, kicking ass and having a good time. I love that everyone has a good time doing that, but I don't. Its not that I'm bad, cause I'm not or anything to do with skill. This is just a facet of the game that I want to enjoy with the build I have grown to love and have taken lots of hours to build. Healing in PVP should be just as important, if not the most important play style in PVP. Wouldn't you want a healer on your team helping to keep you alive in big fights?

@Crab Fear.1624 I have a healing tempest with Minstreal armor, monk runes and Magi accessories. I don't understand why that would be a problem in PVP, its not like I'm invincible or anything. Scourges still give me trouble and CC is pretty much a death sentence.

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@silverfox.1056 said:So I have this awesome healing build (in my opinion) for my tempest, its worked great in raids, fractals, wvw and pve. So, like anyone, I wanted to try it out in pvp. However, there is no option for minstrel stats or benevolence sigils/transference sigils. Why isn't that an option? All the sigils that are supplied are very lack luster and wouldn't help me out my build at all. So is healing not a thing in PVP or have the dev's just forgot about those certain stat's? I'm just confused. I realize I could run Magi, but I wanted more sustain and toughness from Minstrels. I guess I'm just not going to do PVP ever now if I cant even play the build I want.

Because a team of 5 knockback oriented full bunker specs would be fun to play against.

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@shadowpass.4236 Knockback? Unless your talking about one of the Air moves, the healing tempest doesn't really have much CC bro. However, if people want to play bunker builds then it should be there prerogative and they should have the ability to do so. Its not an unstoppable build, I have gotten killed plenty of times. Its not Meta by any means, but its fun. Fun is the core mechanic of the game = shouldn't everyone be facilitated to? Not just DPS or Tanks? I not here to argue, I just cant see why a gaming company would limit there player base like that. Besides, a whole 5 man team like that would still lose just as much as DPS team.

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@silverfox.1056 said:@shadowpass.4236 Knockback? Unless your talking about one of the Air moves, the healing tempest doesn't really have much CC bro. However, if people want to play bunker builds then it should be there prerogative and they should have the ability to do so. Its not an unstoppable build, I have gotten killed plenty of times. Its not Meta by any means, but its fun. Fun is the core mechanic of the game = shouldn't everyone be facilitated to? Not just DPS or Tanks? I not here to argue, I just cant see why a gaming company would limit there player base like that. Besides, a whole 5 man team like that would still lose just as much as DPS team.

You're obviously a new PvPer so I don't want/feel the need to explain to you that a bunker meta is legitimately the most boring meta possible, followed closely by a 1 shot meta (which is what we're in now).

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@silverfox.1056 said:@Alatar.7364 Listen bud, brother. Why would having a healer bunker be a bad thing? I would love to see a healing meta in PVP, maybe I would play it more often. It just seems incredibly unfair that I cant play exactly what I want to play. That's all I'm saying. PVP is suppose to be about making friends, kicking kitten and having a good time. I love that everyone has a good time doing that, but I don't. Its not that I'm bad, cause I'm not or anything to do with skill. This is just a facet of the game that I want to enjoy with the build I have grown to love and have taken lots of hours to build. Healing in PVP should be just as important, if not the most important play style in PVP. Wouldn't you want a healer on your team helping to keep you alive in big fights?

I have a feeling you didn't play any PvP at all in the first place. Because there already IS bunker healer meta and it is broken (ish) even without the usage of the stats you mentioned. It is unhealthy. The addition of the Stats you are talking about would literally erase PvP as a game mode.Please, try to play few Matches first and you will see what is everyone talking about. There is no argument against that.

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@silverfox.1056 said:@Alatar.7364 Listen bud, brother. Why would having a healer bunker be a bad thing? I would love to see a healing meta in PVP, maybe I would play it more often. It just seems incredibly unfair that I cant play exactly what I want to play. That's all I'm saying. PVP is suppose to be about making friends, kicking kitten and having a good time. I love that everyone has a good time doing that, but I don't. Its not that I'm bad, cause I'm not or anything to do with skill. This is just a facet of the game that I want to enjoy with the build I have grown to love and have taken lots of hours to build. Healing in PVP should be just as important, if not the most important play style in PVP. Wouldn't you want a healer on your team helping to keep you alive in big fights?

Healing- and supportbuilds are very, very strong in pvp and everybody appreciates having a healer on their team. In fact, healers are so dominant (especially in higher tiers), that not having one (if going up against a team that does) puts you at an immediate disadvantage already.Mixing high healing power with high toughness however, is very unbalanced in pvp tho. You dont even need any vitality....in fact, if you have enough access to condi cleanses, lower vitality is even prefered, since you get more value from your heals. Some people have already mentioned the nuisance that was season 1 bunker mesmer, but cleric tempest was an abomination as well. With 2k toughness, 1.2k healing power, diamond skin and despite only having a measly 11k HP, it was an unkillable support god. It literally took 3 people (more than half a pvp team) to put any significant pressure on them. It was an absolute snooze-fest.

While it may be true that minstrel ele in WvW can die pretty quickly, you also have to considered that pvp fights are fought on a fraction of that scale. A 3v3 in pvp is already considered a teamfight after all. Further more, having more than 1 necro on a team in pvp really screws you over more than it is beneficial.

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@BikeIsGone.8675 said:

@silverfox.1056 said:@Alatar.7364 Listen bud, brother. Why would having a healer bunker be a bad thing? I would love to see a healing meta in PVP, maybe I would play it more often. It just seems incredibly unfair that I cant play exactly what I want to play. That's all I'm saying. PVP is suppose to be about making friends, kicking kitten and having a good time. I love that everyone has a good time doing that, but I don't. Its not that I'm bad, cause I'm not or anything to do with skill. This is just a facet of the game that I want to enjoy with the build I have grown to love and have taken lots of hours to build. Healing in PVP should be just as important, if not the most important play style in PVP. Wouldn't you want a healer on your team helping to keep you alive in big fights?

Healing- and supportbuilds are very, very strong in pvp and everybody appreciates having a healer on their team. In fact, healers are so dominant (especially in higher tiers), that not having one (if going up against a team that dose) puts you at an immediate disadvantage already.Mixing high healing power with high toughness however, is very unbalanced in pvp tho. You dont even need any vitality....in fact, if you have enough access to condi cleanses, lower vitality is even prefered, since you got value from your heals. Some people have already mentioned the nuisance that was season 1 bunker mesmer, but cleric tempest was an abomination as well. With 2k toughness, 1.2k healing power, diamond skin and despite only having a measly 11k HP, it was an unkillable support god. It literally took 3 people (more than half a pvp team) to put any significant pressure on them. It was an absolute snooze-fest.

While it may be true that minstrel ele in WvW can die pretty quickly, you also have to considered that pvp fights are fought on a fraction of that scale. A 3v3 in pvp is already considered a teamfight after all. Further more, having more than 1 necro on a team in pvp really screws you over more than it is beneficial.

Unfortunately PvP was already on the decline when bunker mes was around. Between d/d cele ele having been so prevalent and the game mode itself not lending itself to be viewer friendly ratings were tanking even then.

The next problem is Anet has yet to address having multiple classes on team in ranked. No one wants to go against a team consisting of three scourges and two firebrands. Pre or post nerf. Yet it happens. The problem currently is the population isn’t big enough to support a one class per team set up. That again lies with Anet not pushing out new maps and game modes for PvP. Strong hold was an absolute flop in my opinion. No one really asked for it, we’ve all wanted a tdm, 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, cap the flag, etc and still haven’t gotten it. Ben has said they’ve made 2v2 maps but they want be a supported game mode. Conquest is the biggest issue right now. The game needs bunker/bruiser, high spike damage, and condi to be successful but it’s been a failure to balance it all.

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The PROBLEM is that the game was originally designed with VERY LITTLE support in the first place. Before elite specs came around, you could do some support on staff ele and maybe with a guardian (but not in a healing sense). And all support was non-targeted.

With HoT and then PoF, we've seen the addition of raids and straight healing/support builds like the game never truly intended to have (they were pushing the non-holy trinity thing pretty hard leading up to launch).

So why does this matter?

Well most classes have been designed to be able to sustain themselves (via dodge and heals and blocks, etc) without a healer. Without major overhaul, adding strong healing to the mix causes for some very un-fun pvp encounters. You have all your self-sustain PLUS a pocket healer throwing heals (or you have self sustain AND can heal yourself really well).

Now add in the conquest-only (3-node 5v5 matches) pvp game modes and you have terrible, terrible matches that aren't fun for either the bunker or the dps. It'd be like watching a game of chess where every piece is a pawn or if every piece is a queen. The balance is wonky and it's just not a good experience for anyone.

Now if you want to talk about "being able to play what I want to play in pvp" ... I main Reaper, so I hear you there ;)

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