Power Scourge

[Lotus Bane.9387]

I was messing around on my necro after being gone a while, and I noticed there's a delay now after casting a shade skill. It kind of messes up trying to do burst damage and reacting to burst damage.

Is power Scourge still a thing? Or has the shade skill delay messed that up?

[Krycha.5947]

I use power scourge and it feels better than condi

[Galmac.4680]

As necro you aren't supposed to do burst damage. Thank ANet.

[Crossaber.8934]

Many classes burst combo lead skill are not instant cast, i will give you a few example below:

Mesmer mirror blade got a 3/4 sec cast time, it is the lead skill of their power burst combo.

Warrior:Arcing slice 1/2sArc divider 3/4sFinal thrust 3/4sEarthsharker 3/4sKillshot 1 3/4s

Ranger:Maul 3/4sWorldly impact 1s

I can give a lot more examples, it is only fair to have 1/2s cast time to all scourge F skill, especially the player can be used as a shade for the skill. Even there is a 1/2s cast time for every shade skill, you can still chain them all up faster than a warrior to finish a 100b channel.

[Nimon.7840]

@Crossaber.8934 said:Many classes burst combo lead skill are not instant cast, i will give you a few example below:

Mesmer mirror blade got a 3/4 sec cast time, it is the lead skill of their power burst combo.

Warrior:Arcing slice 1/2sArc divider 3/4sFinal thrust 3/4sEarthsharker 3/4sKillshot 1 3/4s

Ranger:Maul 3/4sWorldly impact 1s

I can give a lot more examples, it is only fair to have 1/2s cast time to all scourge F skill, especially the player can be used as a shade for the skill. Even there is a 1/2s cast time for every shade skill, you can still chain them all up faster than a warrior to finish a 100b channel.

But necro shades cant move, ehile warrior can. And tbh. Its only one f-skill that does good power dmg: f5Which has a pretty high cd and will be even higher with the upcoming split-patch.

But i still like nuking players with axe 2.

And bombing a bit against idiotic enemy commanders, that lead their group in my double well+f5 spike area

[Crossaber.8934]

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Crossaber.8934 said:Many classes burst combo lead skill are not instant cast, i will give you a few example below:

Mesmer mirror blade got a 3/4 sec cast time, it is the lead skill of their power burst combo.

Warrior:Arcing slice 1/2sArc divider 3/4sFinal thrust 3/4sEarthsharker 3/4sKillshot 1 3/4s

Ranger:Maul 3/4sWorldly impact 1s

I can give a lot more examples, it is only fair to have 1/2s cast time to all scourge F skill, especially the player can be used as a shade for the skill. Even there is a 1/2s cast time for every shade skill, you can still chain them all up faster than a warrior to finish a 100b channel.

But necro shades cant move, ehile warrior can. And tbh. Its only one f-skill that does good power dmg: f5Which has a pretty high cd and will be even higher with the upcoming split-patch.

But i still like nuking players with axe 2.

And bombing a bit against idiotic enemy commanders, that lead their group in my double well+f5 spike area

Necro player cannot move? Scourge F Skill don’t only activate on shade, it also activate on the necro as well.

And i am not talking about CD, i am referring your necro cannot have burst damage comment. Pre cast is one thing, CD is another thing.

1/2 sec pre cast doesn’t mean not allow to deal burst damage, since most classes out there has 1/2 or even 3/4 sec pre cast on their burst combo. It is just a easier tell for your victims to promote fair fight.

For CD wise, many power class only do their high burst combo once every 20-30 sec;desert shroud with 6sec duration, bring offense and defense utilty in a single skill, 20s CD is a little bit too good to begin with.

Executioner’s scythe has a 30s CD as well, let along you need to enter knight shroud in order to use it.

[Zero.3871]

@Crossaber.8934 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Crossaber.8934 said:Many classes burst combo lead skill are not instant cast, i will give you a few example below:

Mesmer mirror blade got a 3/4 sec cast time, it is the lead skill of their power burst combo.

Warrior:Arcing slice 1/2sArc divider 3/4sFinal thrust 3/4sEarthsharker 3/4sKillshot 1 3/4s

Ranger:Maul 3/4sWorldly impact 1s

I can give a lot more examples, it is only fair to have 1/2s cast time to all scourge F skill, especially the player can be used as a shade for the skill. Even there is a 1/2s cast time for every shade skill, you can still chain them all up faster than a warrior to finish a 100b channel.

But necro shades cant move, ehile warrior can. And tbh. Its only one f-skill that does good power dmg: f5Which has a pretty high cd and will be even higher with the upcoming split-patch.

But i still like nuking players with axe 2.

And bombing a bit against idiotic enemy commanders, that lead their group in my double well+f5 spike area

Necro player cannot move? Scourge F Skill don’t only activate on shade, it also activate on the necro as well.

And i am not talking about CD, i am referring your necro cannot have burst damage comment. Pre cast is one thing, CD is another thing.

1/2 sec pre cast doesn’t mean not allow to deal burst damage, since most classes out there has 1/2 or even 3/4 sec pre cast on their burst combo. It is just a easier tell for your victims to promote fair fight.

For CD wise, many power class only do their high burst combo once every 20-30 sec;desert shroud with 6sec duration, bring offense and defense utilty in a single skill, 20s CD is a little bit too good to begin with.

Executioner’s scythe has a 30s CD as well, let along you need to enter knight shroud in order to use it.

other classes like mesm and thief? their precast come while invis, you dont see it, it came instant out of invis and kills you completely. never saw a shade skill that hit with 20k+ dmg out of invis....

[Lotus Bane.9387]

@Krycha.5947 said:I use power scourge and it feels better than condi

What game modes do you use it in?

[Crossaber.8934]

@Zero.3871 said:

@Crossaber.8934 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Crossaber.8934 said:Many classes burst combo lead skill are not instant cast, i will give you a few example below:

Mesmer mirror blade got a 3/4 sec cast time, it is the lead skill of their power burst combo.

Warrior:Arcing slice 1/2sArc divider 3/4sFinal thrust 3/4sEarthsharker 3/4sKillshot 1 3/4s

Ranger:Maul 3/4sWorldly impact 1s

I can give a lot more examples, it is only fair to have 1/2s cast time to all scourge F skill, especially the player can be used as a shade for the skill. Even there is a 1/2s cast time for every shade skill, you can still chain them all up faster than a warrior to finish a 100b channel.

But necro shades cant move, ehile warrior can. And tbh. Its only one f-skill that does good power dmg: f5Which has a pretty high cd and will be even higher with the upcoming split-patch.

But i still like nuking players with axe 2.

And bombing a bit against idiotic enemy commanders, that lead their group in my double well+f5 spike area

Necro player cannot move? Scourge F Skill don’t only activate on shade, it also activate on the necro as well.

And i am not talking about CD, i am referring your necro cannot have burst damage comment. Pre cast is one thing, CD is another thing.

1/2 sec pre cast doesn’t mean not allow to deal burst damage, since most classes out there has 1/2 or even 3/4 sec pre cast on their burst combo. It is just a easier tell for your victims to promote fair fight.

For CD wise, many power class only do their high burst combo once every 20-30 sec;desert shroud with 6sec duration, bring offense and defense utilty in a single skill, 20s CD is a little bit too good to begin with.

Executioner’s scythe has a 30s CD as well, let along you need to enter knight shroud in order to use it.

other classes like mesm and thief? their precast come while invis, you dont see it, it came instant out of invis and kills you completely. never saw a shade skill that hit with 20k+ dmg out of invis....

Good point, that means stealth is the problem we need to voice out, it doesn’t make sense to create OP spec to beat OP spec, right?

I am all for reducing damage output while in stealth, namely thief and mesmer.

[Dadnir.5038]

@"Crossaber.8934" said:Good point, that means stealth is the problem we need to voice out, it doesn’t make sense to create OP spec to beat OP spec, right?

I am all for reducing damage output while in stealth, namely thief and mesmer.

Oh and elementalist's burst which consist of a few instant skills casted in a very short time span?

Desert shroud technically isn't even a burst skill. What profession out there can't deal with 3K crits every seconds? Don't misunderstand me, I think that the whole shade system need a huge rework asap, but honestly, that's ridiculous to see desert shroud as a "burst" skill. The maximum power dps potential of the scourge isn't even close to being in the top 5 dps professions of the game and here we see someone suggesting that there is a need to nerf it because it's to much damage. That's just ridiculous.

Let's just remove all aoe and cleave from the game, otherwise the PvP/WvW community will never be satisfyed.

[Crossaber.8934]

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@"Crossaber.8934" said:Good point, that means stealth is the problem we need to voice out, it doesn’t make sense to create OP spec to beat OP spec, right?

I am all for reducing damage output while in stealth, namely thief and mesmer.

Oh and elementalist's burst which consist of a few instant skills casted in a very short time span?

Desert shroud

technically isn't even a burst skill. What profession out there can't deal with 3K crits every seconds? Don't misunderstand me, I think that the whole shade system need a huge rework asap, but honestly, that's ridiculous to see

desert shroud

as a "burst" skill. The maximum power dps potential of the scourge isn't even close to being in the top 5 dps professions of the game and here we see someone suggesting that there is a need to nerf it because it's to much damage. That's just ridiculous.

Let's just remove all aoe and cleave from the game, otherwise the PvP/WvW community will never be satisfyed.

Desert shroud is not a burst damage skill, but it is an AoE offense and defense all in one loaded skill. I don’t think CD is the fix but it is not doom to scourge since every class is getting sustain nerf anyway.

[Dadnir.5038]

@Crossaber.8934 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Crossaber.8934 said:Good point, that means stealth is the problem we need to voice out, it doesn’t make sense to create OP spec to beat OP spec, right?

I am all for reducing damage output while in stealth, namely thief and mesmer.

Oh and elementalist's burst which consist of a few instant skills casted in a very short time span?

Desert shroud

technically isn't even a burst skill. What profession out there can't deal with 3K crits every seconds? Don't misunderstand me, I think that the whole shade system need a huge rework asap, but honestly, that's ridiculous to see

desert shroud

as a "burst" skill. The maximum power dps potential of the scourge isn't even close to being in the top 5 dps professions of the game and here we see someone suggesting that there is a need to nerf it because it's to much damage. That's just ridiculous.

Let's just remove all aoe and cleave from the game, otherwise the PvP/WvW community will never be satisfyed.

Desert shroud is not a burst damage skill, but it is an AoE offense and defense all in one loaded skill. I don’t think CD is the fix but it is not doom to scourge since every class is getting sustain nerf anyway.

Originaly, the short cool down was here to balance the fact that there is a LF cost to use it. It might be irrelevant in zerg fight but in any other situation the LF cost is pretty much a good way to prevent you from spamming the skill. The short cool down exist for the very same reason why thiefs skills with intiative cost don't have a cool down and revenant skill usually have a shorter CD due to their energy cost. After all, desert shroud cost 40-50% of the base LF pool.

Now I know that I'm playing the devil advocate but these are still fact. Imagine, for example, berserker mode having a 30 second cool down because it can be traited to prevent you from dying (defense) yet still allow you to CC foes around you, deal more damage faster, break stun, remove conditions, gain boons while on top of that you can use your utility skills. Honnestly, the 2 are very close except the berserkers have active defense to protect them while the scourge try to keep it's foes far from him and it's way easier to build rage than to build LF (outside of WvW).

Now my opinion is that shade's design need to be reworked from the ground, that desert shroud need to be very different than what it is now. Scourge should have been a proper support spec, not this awfull hybrid that focus mainly on damage to prevent other from closing in on them.

Desert shroud could have been something that apply torment on your foe whenever you are hit for example, something closer to retal and confusion, effectively punishing players that hurt you (with no ICD). And we could have had a trait that increase our damage while in desert shroud and compete with sand savant. The real issue is the shades mechanism, it's just a bad (or an extremly good) match to core necromancer's traits. We could even imagine shroud#1 trait proc'ing on AA when you're in desert shroud...

Desert shroud is just an aoe skill whose cost make it barely better than berserker's torch#5.

[Lahmia.2193]

@Lotus Bane.9387 said:

@Krycha.5947 said:I use power scourge and it feels better than condi

What game modes do you use it in?

I can't speak for him, but I've played a power well backline scourge in wvw. Staff, axe/focus, full zerker. I've moved back to condi now but it is still a lot better than reaper.

[Subli.8217]

@Dadnir.5038 said:Let's just remove all aoe and cleave from the game, otherwise the PvP/WvW community will never be satisfyed.

i would've preferred if wvw/pvp received dungeon treatment.

[dceptaconroy.7928]

Nimon have you got a build link for what youre running. Interested as im diggin axe. Thanks man

[Crossaber.8934]

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Crossaber.8934 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Crossaber.8934 said:Good point, that means stealth is the problem we need to voice out, it doesn’t make sense to create OP spec to beat OP spec, right?

I am all for reducing damage output while in stealth, namely thief and mesmer.

Oh and elementalist's burst which consist of a few instant skills casted in a very short time span?

Desert shroud

technically isn't even a burst skill. What profession out there can't deal with 3K crits every seconds? Don't misunderstand me, I think that the whole shade system need a huge rework asap, but honestly, that's ridiculous to see

desert shroud

as a "burst" skill. The maximum power dps potential of the scourge isn't even close to being in the top 5 dps professions of the game and here we see someone suggesting that there is a need to nerf it because it's to much damage. That's just ridiculous.

Let's just remove all aoe and cleave from the game, otherwise the PvP/WvW community will never be satisfyed.

Desert shroud is not a burst damage skill, but it is an AoE offense and defense all in one loaded skill. I don’t think CD is the fix but it is not doom to scourge since every class is getting sustain nerf anyway.

Originaly, the short cool down was here to balance the fact that there is a LF cost to use it. It might be irrelevant in zerg fight but in any other situation the LF cost is pretty much a good way to prevent you from spamming the skill. The short cool down exist for the very same reason why thiefs skills with intiative cost don't have a cool down and revenant skill usually have a shorter CD due to their energy cost. After all, desert shroud cost 40-50% of the base LF pool.

Now I know that I'm playing the devil advocate but these are still fact. Imagine, for example, berserker mode having a 30 second cool down because it can be traited to prevent you from dying (defense) yet still allow you to CC foes around you, deal more damage faster, break stun, remove conditions, gain boons while on top of that you can use your utility skills. Honnestly, the 2 are very close except the berserkers have active defense to protect them while the scourge try to keep it's foes far from him and it's way easier to build rage than to build LF (outside of WvW).

Now my opinion is that shade's design need to be reworked from the ground, that

desert shroud

need to be very different than what it is now. Scourge should have been a proper support spec, not this awfull hybrid that focus mainly on damage to prevent other from closing in on them.

Desert shroud

could have been something that apply torment on your foe whenever you are hit for example, something closer to retal and confusion, effectively punishing players that hurt you (with no ICD). And we could have had a trait that increase our damage while in

desert shroud

and compete with

sand savant

. The real issue is the shades mechanism, it's just a bad (or an extremly good) match to core necromancer's traits. We could even imagine shroud#1 trait proc'ing on AA when you're in

desert shroud

...

Desert shroud

is just an aoe skill whose cost make it barely better than berserker's torch#5.

I will take your berserker version with a 30 sec CD definitely, it is too good to be true, most stun break are already at 30sec CD, if it can also trait to deal damage faster, aoe CC, and even more defense, it is too good to be true.... don't you see how berserker was nerfed hard by reducing the primal burst skill to count as tier 1? Let alone the fact that Berserker got only F1 (burst skill) and F2 (berserker mode) and require adrenaline to begin with, scourge has shades (1 or 3), F2, F3, F4 besides Desert shroud...

But put aside the berserker stuff...

I am agree that shade and desert shroud should be reworked, it is not a easy task and will be time consuming, but will go a long way for the health of the game.

[Nimon.7840]

@Crossaber.8934 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Crossaber.8934 said:Good point, that means stealth is the problem we need to voice out, it doesn’t make sense to create OP spec to beat OP spec, right?

I am all for reducing damage output while in stealth, namely thief and mesmer.

Oh and elementalist's burst which consist of a few instant skills casted in a very short time span?

Desert shroud

technically isn't even a burst skill. What profession out there can't deal with 3K crits every seconds? Don't misunderstand me, I think that the whole shade system need a huge rework asap, but honestly, that's ridiculous to see

desert shroud

as a "burst" skill. The maximum power dps potential of the scourge isn't even close to being in the top 5 dps professions of the game and here we see someone suggesting that there is a need to nerf it because it's to much damage. That's just ridiculous.

Let's just remove all aoe and cleave from the game, otherwise the PvP/WvW community will never be satisfyed.

Desert shroud is not a burst damage skill, but it is an AoE offense and defense all in one loaded skill. I don’t think CD is the fix but it is not doom to scourge since every class is getting sustain nerf anyway.

But the problem is. Most of the times you dont need both.So this is more of a problem, than of help.You want to do dmg. Press f5, oh you dont have the barrier value for the next incoming attack.

[Lotus Bane.9387]

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Crossaber.8934 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Crossaber.8934 said:Good point, that means stealth is the problem we need to voice out, it doesn’t make sense to create OP spec to beat OP spec, right?

I am all for reducing damage output while in stealth, namely thief and mesmer.

Oh and elementalist's burst which consist of a few instant skills casted in a very short time span?

Desert shroud

technically isn't even a burst skill. What profession out there can't deal with 3K crits every seconds? Don't misunderstand me, I think that the whole shade system need a huge rework asap, but honestly, that's ridiculous to see

desert shroud

as a "burst" skill. The maximum power dps potential of the scourge isn't even close to being in the top 5 dps professions of the game and here we see someone suggesting that there is a need to nerf it because it's to much damage. That's just ridiculous.

Let's just remove all aoe and cleave from the game, otherwise the PvP/WvW community will never be satisfyed.

Desert shroud is not a burst damage skill, but it is an AoE offense and defense all in one loaded skill. I don’t think CD is the fix but it is not doom to scourge since every class is getting sustain nerf anyway.

But the problem is. Most of the times you dont need both.So this is more of a problem, than of help.You want to do dmg. Press f5, oh you dont have the barrier value for the next incoming attack.

The small issue I'm having is timing the barrier skill so that it isn't a bit of a waste. It's difficult to react to a burst you see coming. Like if you notice a Deadeye's laser a half a second too late.

[Crossaber.8934]

@Lotus Bane.9387 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Crossaber.8934 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Crossaber.8934 said:Good point, that means stealth is the problem we need to voice out, it doesn’t make sense to create OP spec to beat OP spec, right?

I am all for reducing damage output while in stealth, namely thief and mesmer.

Oh and elementalist's burst which consist of a few instant skills casted in a very short time span?

Desert shroud

technically isn't even a burst skill. What profession out there can't deal with 3K crits every seconds? Don't misunderstand me, I think that the whole shade system need a huge rework asap, but honestly, that's ridiculous to see

desert shroud

as a "burst" skill. The maximum power dps potential of the scourge isn't even close to being in the top 5 dps professions of the game and here we see someone suggesting that there is a need to nerf it because it's to much damage. That's just ridiculous.

Let's just remove all aoe and cleave from the game, otherwise the PvP/WvW community will never be satisfyed.

Desert shroud is not a burst damage skill, but it is an AoE offense and defense all in one loaded skill. I don’t think CD is the fix but it is not doom to scourge since every class is getting sustain nerf anyway.

But the problem is. Most of the times you dont need both.So this is more of a problem, than of help.You want to do dmg. Press f5, oh you dont have the barrier value for the next incoming attack.

The small issue I'm having is timing the barrier skill so that it isn't a bit of a waste. It's difficult to react to a burst you see coming. Like if you notice a Deadeye's laser a half a second too late.

It is more of a deadeye issue than a scourge issue, every class got harassed by skillful deadeye are facing the same issue, THE pre cast of DJ is not long enough for most human being to react.

The other problem is, deadeye is trash in meh hands but extremely deadly in skillful hands. One single tool, huge differences. We need pyschic power to fight invisible one shot foe...

[Lotus Bane.9387]

@Crossaber.8934 said:

@Lotus Bane.9387 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Crossaber.8934 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Crossaber.8934 said:Good point, that means stealth is the problem we need to voice out, it doesn’t make sense to create OP spec to beat OP spec, right?

I am all for reducing damage output while in stealth, namely thief and mesmer.

Oh and elementalist's burst which consist of a few instant skills casted in a very short time span?

Desert shroud

technically isn't even a burst skill. What profession out there can't deal with 3K crits every seconds? Don't misunderstand me, I think that the whole shade system need a huge rework asap, but honestly, that's ridiculous to see

desert shroud

as a "burst" skill. The maximum power dps potential of the scourge isn't even close to being in the top 5 dps professions of the game and here we see someone suggesting that there is a need to nerf it because it's to much damage. That's just ridiculous.

Let's just remove all aoe and cleave from the game, otherwise the PvP/WvW community will never be satisfyed.

Desert shroud is not a burst damage skill, but it is an AoE offense and defense all in one loaded skill. I don’t think CD is the fix but it is not doom to scourge since every class is getting sustain nerf anyway.

But the problem is. Most of the times you dont need both.So this is more of a problem, than of help.You want to do dmg. Press f5, oh you dont have the barrier value for the next incoming attack.

The small issue I'm having is timing the barrier skill so that it isn't a bit of a waste. It's difficult to react to a burst you see coming. Like if you notice a Deadeye's laser a half a second too late.

It is more of a deadeye issue than a scourge issue, every class got harassed by skillful deadeye are facing the same issue, THE pre cast of DJ is not long enough for most human being to react.

The other problem is, deadeye is trash in meh hands but extremely deadly in skillful hands. One single tool, huge differences. We need pyschic power to fight invisible one shot foe...

Yeah I can relate. I tried Deadeye for a bit, but it feels like I can only use it with dual pistols or rifles. But I've seen some skillful kills using s/d, (I think) s/p, and d/p