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Can the Dragonbrand be reversed?


Juli Jules.8490
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Hey guys! I really hated to see Vaabi (My favourite region from the original Guild Wars) mostly covered with ugly Dragonbrand :(

So I did ask myself: Do you guys think that the Dragonbrand can be reversed and the land returned to normal? Maybe by slaying Kralkatorik (I know, not a good idea) or putting him to rest again? Or do you think the taint to the land will last forever? I hold the hope that maybe after defeating him in some way the Dragonbrand can be removed again.

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I don't think it'll change on its own (or within GW2's timeframe), but there's some hope for future Vabbi. Siren's Landing gives us a look at an Orr that, if not reversing Zhaitan's corruption, is at least beginning to struggle free of it. The djinn in Vabbi have the motive, and maybe even the means, to try the same with the Dragonbrand. There's no telling what the result would look like, or how long the process would take (Siren's Landing has been at it for five years and is only in the beginning phases), or if it'll happen at all, but there's at least some hope.

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@Randulf.7614 said:I think I remember a theory or suggestion on these forums that put forward the idea that the Crystal Desert could be the remains of an ancient Branded area from an early Dragonrise

crystal desert used to be a sea but abbadon's shenanigans caused it to turn into a desert so i highly doubt it

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@derd.6413 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:I think I remember a theory or suggestion on these forums that put forward the idea that the Crystal Desert could be the remains of an ancient Branded area from an early Dragonrise

crystal desert used to be a sea but abbadon's shenanigans caused it to turn into a desert so i highly doubt it

It has nothing to do with whether the land is flooded or not. The thinking goes as follows:

1.) We're told that every grain of sand within the desert is in actuality a minuscule fragment of crystal, which is how the sea got its name.2.) We know that Kralkatorrik's corruption takes the form of crystallizing vast swathes of land.3.) We know that Glint, a purified remnant of Kralkatorrik's corruption, made her home in the Crystal Desert.4.) We know that the occasional larger bits of crystal we could find in the desert in GW1 resemble plants, which is also typical of Kralkatorrik's corruption.5.) The crystal plants in GW1 are also found within Glint's Lair and closely resemble the larger crystals that make up the structure of the place, which we now have reason to believe is a purified version of a dragon champion's ability to spread its masters corruption.

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@Aaron Ansari.1604 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:I think I remember a theory or suggestion on these forums that put forward the idea that the Crystal Desert could be the remains of an ancient Branded area from an early Dragonrise

crystal desert used to be a sea but abbadon's shenanigans caused it to turn into a desert so i highly doubt it

It has nothing to do with whether the land is flooded or not. The thinking goes as follows:

1.) We're told that every grain of sand within the desert is in actuality a minuscule fragment of crystal, which is how the sea got its name.2.) We know that Kralkatorrik's corruption takes the form of crystallizing vast swathes of land.3.) We know that Glint, a purified remnant of Kralkatorrik's corruption, made her home in the Crystal Desert.4.) We know that the occasional larger bits of crystal we could find in the desert in GW1 resemble plants, which is also typical of Kralkatorrik's corruption.5.) The crystal plants in GW1 are also found within Glint's Lair and closely resemble the larger crystals that make up the structure of the place, which we now have reason to believe is a purified version of a dragon champion's ability to spread its masters corruption.

you're wrong because i'm perfect.

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@"Juli Jules.8490" said:Hey guys! I really hated to see Vaabi (My favourite region from the original Guild Wars) mostly covered with ugly Dragonbrand :(

So I did ask myself: Do you guys think that the Dragonbrand can be reversed and the land returned to normal? Maybe by slaying Kralkatorik (I know, not a good idea) or putting him to rest again? Or do you think the taint to the land will last forever? I hold the hope that maybe after defeating him in some way the Dragonbrand can be removed again.

Hard to say. Definitely not while Kralkatorrik is alive and feeding the Dragonbrand. The only example we have of cleansing the physical side of dragon corruption has been Orr, but that's more of "exchanging one dragon corruption for another" in all honesty - replacing Zhaitan's corruption with a purified form of Mordremoth's. And Zhaitan's corruption is much more different than Kralkatorrik's (which in of itself is even different from Jormag's and Primordus').

@Aaron Ansari.1604 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:I think I remember a theory or suggestion on these forums that put forward the idea that the Crystal Desert could be the remains of an ancient Branded area from an early Dragonrise

crystal desert used to be a sea but abbadon's shenanigans caused it to turn into a desert so i highly doubt it

It has nothing to do with whether the land is flooded or not. The thinking goes as follows:

1.) We're told that every grain of sand within the desert is in actuality a minuscule fragment of crystal, which is how the sea got its name.2.) We know that Kralkatorrik's corruption takes the form of crystallizing vast swathes of land.3.) We know that Glint, a purified remnant of Kralkatorrik's corruption, made her home in the Crystal Desert.4.) We know that the occasional larger bits of crystal we could find in the desert in GW1 resemble plants, which is also typical of Kralkatorrik's corruption.5.) The crystal plants in GW1 are also found within Glint's Lair and closely resemble the larger crystals that make up the structure of the place, which we now have reason to believe is a purified version of a dragon champion's ability to spread its masters corruption.

In addition, in Edge of Destiny, Glint said she was collecting Kralkatorrik's blood from the Crystal Desert, indicating that Kralkatorrik had been in the region in the past.

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We definitely won't be able to reverse the Branding, much like how the dragon corruption has scarred all the lands they've claimed, but it will probably fade in time. I'm tempted to compare it to Ascalon's and the Searing. It took around 200 years for the land to go back to its verdant beauty pre-Searing, and it might take that long for the dragons' influences to fade. I think it's safe to assume that on Kralkatorrik's last rise, he left another Brand, but that probably healed as he slept. But for now, half of Vabbi will now be purple and uninhabitable so long as the Brandstorm rages on.

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  • 9 months later...

@"Rognik.2579" said:But for now, half of Vabbi will now be purple and uninhabitable so long as the Brandstorm rages on."Uninhabitable" meaning the tourist resort for millions of heros looking to hunt branded creatures for sport, participating in guided events and generally having a fun time.

Just clarifying.

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@"Juli Jules.8490" said:Maybe if indeed Aurene would replace Kralk, then there would be a way she could reverse the Dragonbrand?

I would imagine this is plausible, but most likely the writing team won't go there because that might affect the branded zones on the existing map. Though I suppose if all the maps are timelocked, they could just make some new maps where the brand has been purified or "re-branded" as something positive/life-giving befitting Aurene.

Most likely I imagine there will be a "slow fade" of the brand after Kralk dies. So it'll be established that his influence will disperse over time, though it won't be something we see in full during GW2.

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Lore wise, unless somebody comes up with some kind of amazing breakthrough, we most likely won't see any de-Branding within the timescale of GW2. Centuries down the road after Kralk is dealt with and nature takes its course, maybe.

Reality wise, Anet is notorious for writing content, patching it into a somewhat usable state, and then immediately abandoning it. Hence every map in the game being "frozen in time" at the story point when it was made -- unfixed bugs and all. I'm actually surprised Anet made the changes they did to Central Tyria with HoT. Which those changes haven't been touched since, even though Fort Salma should have been rebuilt by now, the Iron Marches cleared of Mordrem, and so forth. So no, we definitely won't be seeing any de-Branding on existing maps.

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@"Jimbru.6014" said:

Reality wise, Anet is notorious for writing content, patching it into a somewhat usable state, and then immediately abandoning it. Hence every map in the game being "frozen in time" at the story point when it was made -- unfixed bugs and all. I'm actually surprised Anet made the changes they did to Central Tyria with HoT. Which those changes haven't been touched since, even though Fort Salma should have been rebuilt by now, the Iron Marches cleared of Mordrem, and so forth. So no, we definitely won't be seeing any de-Branding on existing maps.

To be fair to them, they did try it the other way for a good couple years first- which is where the messes in Kessex, the Iron Marches, and Lion's Arch came from in the first place, of course. Having seen both approaches, as much as I'd like to see some clean-up, I don't think one approach is definitively better than the other.

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Extending my thought, I feel that the lack of an active "present" in GW2 is one of its bigger drawbacks. Instead, it's like every map is its own fractal, a particular moment or set of moments frozen in time. There's no continuity, no feel of passing time, no feel like what your character has done has accomplished anything. I'd like to see the general state of the world updated along with its expansions, much like WoW does from time to time, reflecting the changes and progress over the years.

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For myself, I broadly prefer things as they are. It means that new players aren't hopelessly out of the loop, and it also means that if you miss something, you can go back and stumble on it later. I think continuity and consequence can still be accommodated, of course, but using new maps seem to me to be the better way to go- for example, Siren's Landing did a solid job of conveying what's changed for Orr without overwriting any existing content, and Jahai Bluffs are full of the consequences of Joko's death.

(From a designer's perspective, there's also the trouble that replacing content doesn't grow the game. If you overwrite the old, it's new things to do, but it's not more to do, and it removes things that could still be done. If I had a gold for every time I've heard someone with the Molten Facility, Aetherblade Retreat, or Tower of Nightmares were still accessible, I wouldn't need to craft Sunrise.)

All that said, though? I think there's a case to be made that ANet hasn't been using new zones in that way, and also that replacing content with something better may be preferable to hanging on to things that've sunk beneath the quality bar. Core Tyria zones aren't really reflective of what the game is about and where it's trying to head anymore. Doesn't mean I want it to change, but I can't fault anyone who does.

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@"Jimbru.6014" said:Extending my thought, I feel that the lack of an active "present" in GW2 is one of its bigger drawbacks. Instead, it's like every map is its own fractal, a particular moment or set of moments frozen in time. There's no continuity, no feel of passing time, no feel like what your character has done has accomplished anything. I'd like to see the general state of the world updated along with its expansions, much like WoW does from time to time, reflecting the changes and progress over the years.

Well every MMO I played had this problem. It would be too much work to rework it every time a major event happened. Also, in WoW the maps were frozen in time for years before Cataclysm and now they are again frozen in time.

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@derd.6413 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:I think I remember a theory or suggestion on these forums that put forward the idea that the Crystal Desert could be the remains of an ancient Branded area from an early Dragonrise

crystal desert used to be a sea but abbadon's shenanigans caused it to turn into a desert so i highly doubt it

Abaddon's Rebellion was around 1500 years ago but the last Dragonrise was about 10,000 years ago. Who knows what was there before that.

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@Yannir.4132 said:

@"Randulf.7614" said:I think I remember a theory or suggestion on these forums that put forward the idea that the Crystal Desert could be the remains of an ancient Branded area from an early Dragonrise

crystal desert used to be a sea but abbadon's shenanigans caused it to turn into a desert so i highly doubt it

Abaddon's Rebellion was around 1500 years ago but the last Dragonrise was about 10,000 years ago. Who knows what was there before that.

There's actually a handful of references of there being a crystal desert before Abaddon's fall. Particularly The Ecology of the Charr and Mursaat Lore Tablets. It's possible that there was both a sea and a northern desert with a verdant southern coastline.

That said, in Edge of Destiny, Glint states she was collecting Kralkatorrik's blood from the Crystal Desert, indicating that Kralkatorrik was in that region when last awake and was injured before heading north where it hibernated.

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@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@"crepuscular.9047" said:most likely not, just like the Jade Sea

According to rumors, the Jade Sea began "defrosting" after Factions (or arguably before, we did see some watery mines in Factions after all).

This is just a side note, but back when it was mentioned that the jade was supposedly turning back to water, I couldn't help but think "How do you know its not just rain water? Its gotta go some where."

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