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any scrapper wvw frontline builds?


Burned.9520
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@"Burned.9520" said:pretty much title , i wanna run sometimes as a frontliner and since guardian/warrior seem kinda boring i wanna do it with my engi but i can't find any descent builds

They do exist but one of the core issues right now is that the devs decided to go on a Corruption conversion route with the Scrapper. The problem? That's a freaking Necromancers DREAM! So a Necromancer gives you a whole lot of debuffs which you convert. Boom the Necromancer now corrupts all your boons. It's like a back and forth vicious cycle. Hello Well of Corruption. Now if you don't do this in PVP that's fine and dandy. But in PVP or WvW... watch out lol.

Now if you DO go this route. I've seen a few builds out that do really well actually. Support build and such. I ran one with my Scrapper as a backline (yes I know you specifically said frontline) support and had tons of fun.

Now I can't remember exactly what the traits where for that frontline support I saw awhile back. But it was SOMETHING (not exactly so don't hold me to it) like this. It revolved around flamethrower. Hopefully someone else here can share something a tad better than what I provided. That has actually done frontline Scrapper stuff.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFASnUUBdpi1aB2XBEqil7iie1j9cPcCDoNDsBfwAA

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@Xruptor.3965 said:

@"Burned.9520" said:pretty much title , i wanna run sometimes as a frontliner and since guardian/warrior seem kinda boring i wanna do it with my engi but i can't find any descent builds

They do exist

Agreed, they do exist. and they do very well.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFASnUUBtbhFpCepCEqilKjScZCgwjevj78O86KmuC-jxBBQBlUJ4DV/JAXAAMq8jf7PAgHAA+0BEAAB4m3MAM0hO0hO0h21F6QH6QH6QH6QH6QLFgXDjA-e

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFASnUUBtbhFpCepCEqilKjK86Kmuievj78WcZCgwD-jxBBQBKU9H+t/QkUCGgLAg+0BAgHAQXU+tO4AYsxCAv92bv92bNgbv92bv92bv92blCgilRA-e

Both have served me very well for a long time. the first is more boon duration, the second lean more towards damage. Both are very survivable, and I often swap out healing gyro for the reconstruction field and really do A LOT of condition to boon conversion, as well it is one more stability.

A mediocre player can even be of value converting conditions to boons, which the rest of any reasonably build group will do. There is no need to fear the necro conversions, they are no worse on the engineer than any other profession and equally as easy to deal with as every other profession.

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@coglin.1496 said:

@Burned.9520 said:pretty much title , i wanna run sometimes as a frontliner and since guardian/warrior seem kinda boring i wanna do it with my engi but i can't find any descent builds

They do exist

This is what happens when the ill-informed reply to post. Nothing is worse than when posters claim something doesn't exist that I literally see dozens of players thrive with on a daily basis.

I'm so confused. I posted that they do exist. Unless you meant the original poster.

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I've been playing Scrapper in wvw for about a year. I'm running almost exactly the first build @coglin.1496 is using. The build is the same but for one different trait and instead of Wanderers/Commanders, I am running a mix of Knight's/ Marauder's. I also often replace the heal with healing turret for the big condi cleanse.I absolutely love it, and played wisely it can hold sustained focus by multiple enemies. It's good in big zergs and will let you front line easily while bringing a lot to the team.Where it shines is in smaller(5-10 man) groups. It brings a lot of fun, powerful utility.

In theory @Xruptor.3965 is right about the boon corruption. In reality it's seldom a concern. Most Necros don't play that smart, and if you are in a decent group, your primary push is into the backline anyways. Meaning the few scourges smart enough to counterplay boons that way are usually moving away.

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@Xruptor.3965 said:

@"Burned.9520" said:pretty much title , i wanna run sometimes as a frontliner and since guardian/warrior seem kinda boring i wanna do it with my engi but i can't find any descent builds

They do exist

This is what happens when the ill-informed reply to post. Nothing is worse than when posters claim something doesn't exist that I literally see dozens of players thrive with on a daily basis.

I'm so confused. I posted that they do exist. Unless you meant the original poster.

Yeah, you are confused because I swear I read "the do not exist" and thus took the rest of what you said in a different context. Totally my fault, I apologize.

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@"coglin.1496" said:Yeah, you are confused because I swear I read "the do not exist" and thus took the rest of what you said in a different context. Totally my fault, I apologize.

Its alright. When I was reading your post I was like, "Huh? I posted they do exist. I don't get it." I had even gave a sample build, but knew there were better ones out there. No worries though.

@"Burned.9520" said:thanks for the builds coglin will give them a go!

If you want to go with additional cleansing and condition support. You can try this as well. It cleanses conditions when you grant protection. That cleanse then triggers the trait that converts the condition to a boon. Not to mention you also grant regeneration when you remove the condition. Therefore you grant three buffs.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFASnUUBtbhFpCepCEqil7ji+Wb1aV8A2oOKciCgNB-jxBBQBPU9HA8AA43+DlUJYAuAA4THAGV+tO4AYsxCAv92bv92bNgbv92bv92bv92blCwrhRA-e

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Just play holosmith.

heres the build http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQJAsOnUUh1IDmIDcJjFDDLMAMO6LipD/n+b4PMIC-jFCEQBtRPxDOBA+T9HHq8AAHIgNqEMKKxg3+DBAQAuZbGADdoDdoDdo1m38m38m38m38m3sUAquMC-wPut elixir gun, slick shoes or photon wall (this one requires good melee) as optional utilityHeres a video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrakF3_bo2gBut not on our server, we kinda have policy to kick still-learning players that try to play high-skill classes ;)

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@"coglin.1496" said:http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFASnUUBtbhFpCepCEqilKjScZCgwjevj78O86KmuC-jxBBQBlUJ4DV/JAXAAMq8jf7PAgHAA+0BEAAB4m3MAM0hO0hO0h21F6QH6QH6QH6QH6QLFgXDjA-e

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFASnUUBtbhFpCepCEqilKjK86Kmuievj78WcZCgwD-jxBBQBKU9H+t/QkUCGgLAg+0BAgHAQXU+tO4AYsxCAv92bv92bNgbv92bv92bv92blCgilRA-e

Ah and regarding those coglins builds. Accuracy sigil is terrible compared to bloodlust, energy or concentration (there's not even crit damage to make it decent). Also at best Force sigil would amount to 150 effective power (5% damage increase) at max might. Which is obviously less stats than bloodlust or concentration.

Also the fact that you would take bunker down instead of anticorrosion plating in inventions.... Just no.... Anticorrosion plating makes your dura runes cleanse conditions, your medic gyro toolbelt, your heal skill 1 extra condition, converting vuln into protection, projection injection..... You just lose too much cleanse + boons...

Also running wanderers+commanders for 88% boon duration instead of taking concec sigil and maxing stats by taking something else.... (7% crit chance= 147 precision, 33% boon duration = 495 concentration). Taking too much boon duration is not good either because everytime a boon gets overcapped or corrupted in party, the stat is just wasted. Also you can go above 100% if you happen to have Herald in party/near with facte that gives you 33% extra boon duration, meaning 67% is the max amount you would want to go for (So I do not recommend gearing towards concentration: dura runes, alchemy traits and concec sigil are already 69% which is plenty).

Also the food is no good... 10% damage reduction is already 11% more armor meaning 331 armor in his build + 70 other stats. youre just wasting stats by taking 170 stats instead of 400. The oils are not good either, healing power scaling.

Saving grace is the final salvo in his build, so he has some clue about the most powerful trait in scrapper. Unfortunately Scrapper isnt worth it anymore, too many nerfs and other classes got better with the expansion.

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@"Threather.9354" said:Just play holosmith.

Put elixir gun, slick shoes or photon wall (this one requires good melee) as optional utility

But not on our server, we kinda have policy to kick still-learning players that try to play high-skill classes ;)

How do you even know they are still learning players lol?Basically there , all i see is an holosmith getting carried , cause you are not providing anything beneficial (not even that boon conversion on 40 sec cd is enough to justify an holosmith in the party).

You have dps meter , try also run the boon/support window , you will never get close to the top 10 in any of them , nor damge,nor support ones. (Threather i'm not attacking you mate , just saying what i see in the video).

No offense to anyone , engineer in zerg fights , be it holosmith , be it scrapper , does not provide anything in term of damage nor in terms of support .Even with full mender scrapper you are sub-par , and by a lot , compared to a guardian/elementalist support(the second can deal damage too).

If you wanna have fun it's ok , try roaming with it . Also in small guild raids of 15 max 20 peoples engineer can have his role.No way in blob fights you can do anything aside from leech bags and get carried.

And see long time players say they succesfully run some build in WvW , they should better specify what situation they run the build.Blob/zerg fights?Useless...Succesful run a build , it's not just "hey mate,you know,i survive and i deal some mediocre damge, i tag some bags"...If you are not totally selfish , succesfully run a frontline scrapper build , would be either amazing on support or dps...And It's nothing of both.

Try run core engineer mortar build with HGH , you can have some moment of glory with 2/3k aoe damage , but the enemy must be totally incompetent and not use the bouble/reflection spam that you find against competent servers , cause then you are back in line with the "i'm useless" in terms of big scale fights.

For the rest , try...simply try roll a guard/ele/necro/revenant , and try to have a blob figths...even as total noob/rallybot on that classes ,you will end up being more usefull , and in max 1 week you have mastered 1 of that classes sicne they are super easy mode even in top stress condition.

Nothing personal to anyone of you guys , it's amazing you try to give some insight to someone asking for help , but you must be honest and neutral too .

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@"Nirvana.8659" said:Basically there , all i see is an holosmith getting carried , cause you are not providing anything beneficial (not even that boon conversion on 40 sec cd is enough to justify an holosmith in the party).

Ok let me clarify as you dont play much engineer outside Eclipse tools/explosives i guess.Main reason to take holosmith:

  • Zephyr trait in holosmith, you provide non targetcap superspeed for your blob. Superspeed is strongest buff in WvW. Basically you spam 2 skill on holosmith on key locations and they will either catch up to commander or commander can push with melee through chokes. Basically you want 1-2 holosmiths in your blob. It is like aurashare ele that has unique way of permachilling and burning enemies but having too many of them is not good. Holosmith is even stronger spot because it is practically necessary for strong pushes in chokes.

Now other reasons to take holosmith:

  • Protection granted cleanses, meaning healing turret converts 4 conditions (often 5 due to vuln converting to protection).
  • A pull on toolbelt skill
  • Waterfield
  • Dura runes convert conditions for allies on 20 second cooldown + grant other boons.
  • Melee damage, lot of it passive from precasted corona burst and dodges.
  • Your shield skills cleanse conditions.
  • Your Photon wall blocks attacks for 4 allies OR slick shoes CCs all enemies pushing through OR elixir gun clenases even more conditions. Did you really not see me blocking for the commander multiple times?
  • Your prime light beam does insane damage and drops 10 second duration field that can be compared to meteor shower.
  • Lightfields.
  • It is only class capable of coming reliably back to tag while doing things elsewhere due to superspeed.

Now I have paid attention to the DPS meter and my outgoing clenase numbers are about twice as much as firebrand even with my playstyle. Sometimes reaching outgoing clenases being 250 or so, that means 250 boons.

Basically it is jack of all trades that is capable of playing melee. Its like much warrior but with ton of cleanse and boons for allies in exchange of elite bubble,

Unfortunately the boonapplication system for arc dps doesnt work in WvW seems because outgoing boons to friendly targets counts things like spotters and lasers edges etc hundreds of times per seconds.

Now lets look at list why to take Glint/Dwarf herald for example:

  • Dwarf elite.
  • Capable of surviving but still party reliant (getting carried?)
  • Ranged pressure, capable of making/finishing downs.
  • Ton of damage
  • Giving boons.
  • Superspeed on 45 second cooldown for 4/5 allies.

Now see, the list is completely different? Theres no pull, theres no waterfield, theres no cleanse, theres no low-cd no-target-cap superspeed. Still its a great class. I feel like youre being little judgemental for no reason at all. You put a holosmith in a blob for the superspeed (because you cant push superfast without holo). Add some cool "ton of AoE cleanse" system in with lot of other utility. And you still deal ton of damage. This build is only viable because the recent inventions and alchemy changes that gave holosmith in a blob another identity than superspeed bot (which it was ok at before also).

And yes I am in a guild with the people in my party in the video, and they agree its a great build just because they see the difference of having holo in the blob/party even though they're pretty clueless about engineer themselves, even judgemental telling me it is shit before they saw what it can do. We decided to go more melee, and having a holosmith allows us to do the pushes we want.

Examples from the video about mechanics you didnt know about:0:48 Holo blocking for people on tag for 3 seconds saving commander4:00 in the video, was that push possible without holosmith giving superspeed to EVERYONE? answer: no. You can see like a dozen of pushes like that which were only possible because holosmith.6:35 in the video, would that rev died without the pull there? answer: noThis was not one of those YouTube hype videos where you take coolest clips from last year and slowmo them into 5 minutes making your class look "supercool", it includes all interesting fights from 1 map 1 night.

TLDR; Holo cleanses more than you think. You take holo for zephyr trait that gives everyone superspeed behind/top of you (example 4:00 in the video), rest is just filler.

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@Threather.9354

There are no mechanics on engineer i don't know about since i play this class....from the beta of gw2 ....exlusively in WvW...so between roaming and guild play i know every ability/aspect of the class ; shame on me cause i'm not a pro after 6 years on this class only , but i know how it works pretty well.Just recently playing some herald.

Back on topic , to the list of the advantages you are talking about , and despite the list of the awesome action you performed there , this blob was getting clearly carried by damge dealers and CCs: weavers , scourges , heralds.The push is mostly possible for the ranged pressure and infinite CCs of scourges , and for nothing else (so with or without superspeed).

Also , sorry , but heralds are important only for one porpuse : melt enemyes...not for the dwarf elite...nor for the superspeed , not for boonsharing. 1 reason only : damage.This is blob fight.....in EB.......not a decent small guild run where this details you listed matters (and indeed,like i said,in small guild run engineer can have his spot and the things you listed have a sense ) .

That told , the OP is asking for a frontline build , and taking the best example around (your video) i pointed out how an Holosmith ,despite how can looks awesome in your video and on your description/chronicle of the events , is not a class that performs well in blob/zerg fights , since actually the only thing taht carry this fights is the king of any event : scourge , and minor parts to weaver (top dps) and heralds (second top dps in general) .It perfomes well in guild or small scale battles.Not as blob frontliner.

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@Threather.9354 said:

@"coglin.1496" said:

Ah and regarding those coglins builds. Accuracy sigil is terrible compared to bloodlust, energy or concentration (there's not even crit damage to make it decent). Also at best Force sigil would amount to 150 effective power (5% damage increase) at max might. Which is obviously less stats than bloodlust or concentration.

Also the fact that you would take bunker down instead of anticorrosion plating in inventions....
Just no....
Anticorrosion plating makes your dura runes cleanse conditions, your medic gyro toolbelt, your heal skill 1 extra condition, converting vuln into protection, projection injection..... You just lose too much cleanse + boons...

Also running wanderers+commanders for 88% boon duration instead of taking concec sigil and maxing stats by taking something else.... (7% crit chance= 147 precision, 33% boon duration = 495 concentration). Taking too much boon duration is not good either because everytime a boon gets overcapped or corrupted in party, the stat is just wasted. Also you can go above 100% if you happen to have Herald in party/near with facte that gives you 33% extra boon duration, meaning 67% is the max amount you would want to go for (So I do not recommend gearing towards concentration: dura runes, alchemy traits and concec sigil are already 69% which is plenty).

Also the food is no good... 10% damage reduction is already 11% more armor meaning 331 armor in his build + 70 other stats. youre just wasting stats by taking 170 stats instead of 400. The oils are not good either, healing power scaling.

Saving grace is the final salvo in his build, so he has some clue about the most powerful trait in scrapper. Unfortunately Scrapper isnt worth it anymore, too many nerfs and other classes got better with the expansion.

I do not disagree with your criticism of the builds I posted. To be fair, I just slapped them together as examples for the guy. I didn't even realize I chose bunker down till I read your post just now.

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