Ectos economy regulation?

[Talindra.4958]

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:Lol. This is free market, demand and supply yo. Furthermore, it isn't just ecto dropping, everything is. The game is inflated, not much new players while many old players. This is just sign of declining populations.

It is not a sign of declining populations. It is a sign that Anet is drowning us in rare and exotic gear since PoF (ectos worth less than when Tarir multiloot exploit was going on). Also a sign of Anet not adding enough mat sinks like in the early days of the game.

Nope. It is a sign of declining populations. If we have plenty of old players that keep on playing everyday, gotten all the gears they already want to get, what will they do with the extra stuffs? Sell it off of course. Now, who buy those stuffs? Of course is the new players. Are there a lot of new players? Nope. If there are not enough new players, the market is not able to absorb all those items and thus the value goes down.

We do hv a large supply. Even if we maintain the same population ecto price gonna drop toi

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

Some facts:

• Peak ecto price was in July 2016; it was around 50s/e
• In Octo 2013, when the game was presumably played the most, it was 14s/e

Other notable highs & lows include:

• Feb 2013: 38s
• Jul 2013: 19s
• Dec 2013: 38s
• Oct 2014: 42s
• May 2015: 30s
• July 2015: 41s
• Jun 2016: 50s
• Oct 2016: 28s
• Sep 2017: 37s
• Today: 15s

However, if you look at the supply, you see a different graph:

• Supply has been traditionally below 100k for most of the game's life.
• It did spike to over 200k in Feb 2014
• The next time it hit 200k wasn't until August 2016
• Supply spiked at around 880k in Nov 2016 & again in January 2017
• It then spiked to 1m for the first time in May 2017
• And dropped to 600k by August 2017
• It's been rising since (although not entirely steadily) to about 1.6M.

---

Economists should be agnostic about prices. What they care about is if there's a free flow of goods. And there is. It just happens that ecto are surprisingly cheap these days, which is great for those making legendaries and annoying for those who invested in ectos... or got paid in ectos for goods and services and never got around to converting them to other assets.

It's a mistake to think of ectos like currency, even if we sometimes use them that way. Like all commodities, they can spike with popularity, and crash with a change of faucets or sinks or something required for the latest shiny.

[Malediktus.9250]

@Talindra.4958 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:Lol. This is free market, demand and supply yo. Furthermore, it isn't just ecto dropping, everything is. The game is inflated, not much new players while many old players. This is just sign of declining populations.

It is not a sign of declining populations. It is a sign that Anet is drowning us in rare and exotic gear since PoF (ectos worth less than when Tarir multiloot exploit was going on). Also a sign of Anet not adding enough mat sinks like in the early days of the game.

Nope. It is a sign of declining populations. If we have plenty of old players that keep on playing everyday, gotten all the gears they already want to get, what will they do with the extra stuffs? Sell it off of course. Now, who buy those stuffs? Of course is the new players. Are there a lot of new players? Nope. If there are not enough new players, the market is not able to absorb all those items and thus the value goes down.

We do hv a large supply. Even if we maintain the same population ecto price gonna drop toi

And the supply got big why? Anet has been drowning us in rares and exos for a long time

[Talindra.4958]

@Malediktus.9250 said:

@Talindra.4958 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:Lol. This is free market, demand and supply yo. Furthermore, it isn't just ecto dropping, everything is. The game is inflated, not much new players while many old players. This is just sign of declining populations.

It is not a sign of declining populations. It is a sign that Anet is drowning us in rare and exotic gear since PoF (ectos worth less than when Tarir multiloot exploit was going on). Also a sign of Anet not adding enough mat sinks like in the early days of the game.

Nope. It is a sign of declining populations. If we have plenty of old players that keep on playing everyday, gotten all the gears they already want to get, what will they do with the extra stuffs? Sell it off of course. Now, who buy those stuffs? Of course is the new players. Are there a lot of new players? Nope. If there are not enough new players, the market is not able to absorb all those items and thus the value goes down.

We do hv a large supply. Even if we maintain the same population ecto price gonna drop toi

And the supply got big why? Anet has been drowning us in rares and exos for a long time

Wonder if that was intended at all. There's no point to even sell ecto better use it to do ecto gambling ???Maybe that's what they want us to do! Groom us into becoming a gambler.. I'm only kidding anet.

[mauried.5608]

MMO economies arnt meant to be static, ie where the prices of everything remain the same forever.Its also not valid to pick a small sample of items that the TP sells and base the health of the economy on variations on those small number of samples.Players who keep items hoping to sell them at a later date for a profit are essentially gambling, and with any form of gambling you either win or lose.The ideal outcome is to win more than you lose over a longer time frame.

[Feanor.2358]

@Malediktus.9250 said:

@Talindra.4958 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:Lol. This is free market, demand and supply yo. Furthermore, it isn't just ecto dropping, everything is. The game is inflated, not much new players while many old players. This is just sign of declining populations.

It is not a sign of declining populations. It is a sign that Anet is drowning us in rare and exotic gear since PoF (ectos worth less than when Tarir multiloot exploit was going on). Also a sign of Anet not adding enough mat sinks like in the early days of the game.

Nope. It is a sign of declining populations. If we have plenty of old players that keep on playing everyday, gotten all the gears they already want to get, what will they do with the extra stuffs? Sell it off of course. Now, who buy those stuffs? Of course is the new players. Are there a lot of new players? Nope. If there are not enough new players, the market is not able to absorb all those items and thus the value goes down.

We do hv a large supply. Even if we maintain the same population ecto price gonna drop toi

And the supply got big why? Anet has been drowning us in rares and exos for a long time

If the rate of generation stays the same, but the rate of exhaustion declines, you'll still end up with rising supply and falling price.Also, even if we assume that "ANet are drowning us in rares and exos", eventually the falling prices will erode the appeal of the farms and make the players quit them, which will help to reduce the supply.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@Feanor.2358 said:eventually the falling prices will erode the appeal of the farms and make the players quit them, which will help to reduce the supply.

There's no evidence that would be true. AB Mult-loot also reduced prices on a lot of mats and yet people kept doing it, because it still generated more of those mats than other gameplay.

The thing that Istan meta-farming has done to drive ecto down farther than AB/ML ever did is deliver gear in the form of unidentified containers. That allows people willing to postpone opening to drive up the number of rares and exotics far beyond what they'd get during ordinary game play. Those with high account Magic Find to boost their temporary MF to 800-1000%, which drastically increases the chances of getting rares.

Most of the gear loot in AB/ML and Silverwastes isn't affected by Magic Find, whereas all of the gear loot in Istan is. That's why we've seen the ecto supply driven up and prices tanking since PoF, while the impact on basic mats (wood, metal, leather, cloth) hasn't been as dramatic, even with AB/ML.

[Rauderi.8706]

Thanks for the reminder, OP. I need to go put my order on on these super-cheap ectos that came about from some PoF metas being too rewarding. :)

[Malediktus.9250]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:

@Talindra.4958 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:Lol. This is free market, demand and supply yo. Furthermore, it isn't just ecto dropping, everything is. The game is inflated, not much new players while many old players. This is just sign of declining populations.

It is not a sign of declining populations. It is a sign that Anet is drowning us in rare and exotic gear since PoF (ectos worth less than when Tarir multiloot exploit was going on). Also a sign of Anet not adding enough mat sinks like in the early days of the game.

Nope. It is a sign of declining populations. If we have plenty of old players that keep on playing everyday, gotten all the gears they already want to get, what will they do with the extra stuffs? Sell it off of course. Now, who buy those stuffs? Of course is the new players. Are there a lot of new players? Nope. If there are not enough new players, the market is not able to absorb all those items and thus the value goes down.

We do hv a large supply. Even if we maintain the same population ecto price gonna drop toi

And the supply got big why? Anet has been drowning us in rares and exos for a long time

If the rate of generation stays the same, but the rate of exhaustion declines, you'll still end up with rising supply and falling price.Also, even if we assume that "ANet are drowning us in rares and exos", eventually the falling prices will erode the appeal of the farms and make the players quit them, which will help to reduce the supply.

The problem is you drown in rares and exos even if you do not specifically farm one content. Almost everything rewards you with rares and exotics nowadays. Even the PoF related PvP reward tracks.

[Ashabhi.1365]

@EthanLightheart.9168 said:

@"Ashabhi.1365" said:Ecto in GW1 was rare enough that it was treated almost as currency. You would see "WTS Uber Item of Stupendousness for 5P + 20 Ecto blah blah blah." In GW2, ecto is simply another material that stores in one's bank. It's not difficult to get (I have stacks from salvaging gear) and it's not used as a currency.

Wrong they are used as currency concerning tips. Also e ectos in gw 1 are also ver yeasy to obtain and there were plenty of farmers. We have this problem since palawadans flood.

I stand corrected...to a point.

In GW2, they are still not used as currency in the way they were in GW1. The other thing to remember is that they aren't required in the ratio that they were in GW1. In order to be similarly "needed" we would need stacks of them to craft, not individual ectos. In any case, I stand by my assertion that ANet isn't going to do anything about the commonality or price of ecto or any other material unless there is something so far out of whack that the economy tanks without the adjustment.

[Drecien.4508]

Since they are so cheap just gamble them away. Theres your sink.

[Ashen.2907]

@Ashabhi.1365 said:

@EthanLightheart.9168 said:

@Ashabhi.1365 said:Ecto in GW1 was rare enough that it was treated almost as currency. You would see "WTS Uber Item of Stupendousness for 5P + 20 Ecto blah blah blah." In GW2, ecto is simply another material that stores in one's bank. It's not difficult to get (I have stacks from salvaging gear) and it's not used as a currency.

Wrong they are used as currency concerning tips. Also e ectos in gw 1 are also ver yeasy to obtain and there were plenty of farmers. We have this problem since palawadans flood.

I stand corrected...to a point.

In GW2, they are still not used as currency in the way they were in GW1. The other thing to remember is that they aren't required in the ratio that they were in GW1. In order to be similarly "needed" we would need stacks of them to craft, not individual ectos. In any case, I stand by my assertion that ANet isn't going to do anything about the commonality or price of ecto or any other material unless there is something so far out of whack that the economy tanks without the adjustment.

^^^ this.

Tipping with a commodity or product does not make it a currency. The box of candy that my mail carrier gets at holidays is not a currency.

[Takoyakii.2146]

Is the Great hall change have something to with this? Right now they spawn like 6 champs when Amala hp is reduce by 25%. I tried it once and it's flood me with 20+ champ bags in 1 run.

It's look really broken.

[zerorogue.9410]

If you look at any chart for ectoplasm (eg: https://www.gw2bltc.com/en/item/19721-Glob-of-Ectoplasm ) you can quickly see the problem, Path of Fire. When pof was in beta I saw that it would drop all the basic crafting markets(wood/metal/cloth/leather), due to how plentiful resources are in the expansion. While most markets turn back around because of demand, ectoplasms didn't.

Demand for ectoplasms has stayed stable (Between 100k and 200k), while supply has exploded. (From 600k in September to 1.6m now). More supply means lower prices.

What needs to happen to turn the market around is either something to increase demand or something to remove supply. In terms of games that means some cool new item that needs boatloads of ectos to make/use.

[kmfart.7480]

I fully support Anet to juggle the income flow rate of commodities, to help combat dubious gold & ingame event sellers using it as an unlimited stable payment method. It really doesnt affect legit players at all, but it obviously hurts gold / event / achievement sellers. Nice question btw ;-)

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@"kmfart.7480" said:I fully support Anet to juggle the income flow rate of commodities, to help combat dubious gold & ingame event sellers using it as an unlimited stable payment method. It really doesnt affect legit players at all, but it obviously hurts gold / event / achievement sellers. Nice question btw ;-)

It really does affect all players. People who just do regular events get less for their rares & exotics because the price is down.

And what you refer to as "in-game event" sellers aren't hurt by it at all, because (a) they should already have swapped to another commodity and (b) already converted ecto into gold (or legendaries or other income/shinies). If they haven't, they aren't any different from anyone else speculating that the market would be remain stable.

The primary winners in a depressed GW2 market are people who want to build shinies. The primary losers are speculators. Farmers and "casual" players might be winners or losers, depending on what they had planned to do with their loot; the more they interact with the TP, the more they can be hurt by drops in market values.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

Think of it this way: right now, it is really cheap to max out magic find by salvaging ectos.

[Etterwyn.5263]

@Takoyakii.2146 said:Is the Great hall change have something to with this? Right now they spawn like 6 champs when Amala hp is reduce by 25%. I tried it once and it's flood me with 20+ champ bags in 1 run.

It's look really broken.

No I would put it mostly on the implementation of unidentified gear. It's too easy to get (you can obtain hundreds per day with not much effort). It can be promoted by Magic Find, which contributes to the flood of rares and exotics. And more on my first point, there are sooooo many chests in POF/LS4 maps that drop even more stuff, and many don't require keys.

Now why didn't the Silverwastes break the economy? Let's see... the best gold/hr was made by opening most bags on a low level character and salvaging for materials that level 80s couldn't get unless they harvested low level maps. You only opened bags of rare gear on an 80, and those were actually rare. (relatively speaking) Just running my 5 characters through the TOPK chests daily will land me 2 or 3 rare unidentified gears or Elonian weapons. No keys or effort required. Right now the game just drowns you in stuff. It's really out of balance.

[Rauderi.8706]

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:Think of it this way: right now, it is really cheap to max out magic find by salvaging ectos.

Not quite so useful until they give us something real to do with the extra luck essence.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

@Rauderi.8706 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:Think of it this way: right now, it is really cheap to max out magic find by salvaging ectos.

Not quite so useful until they give us something real to do with the extra luck essence.

The extra luck essence is just that: extra. You're still getting all the goodies with extra magic find.

[Rauderi.8706]

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:The extra luck essence is just that: extra. You're still getting all the goodies with extra magic find.

I don't pray to RNGsus enough for that. :PAnd it brings to mind that ANet is pretty bad at providing outlets for the piles of stuff we get. Ascended materials, oil/dust/ley, luck essence...Though that's a different persistent argument tangent to this one.

[Shirlias.8104]

@Rauderi.8706 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:Think of it this way: right now, it is really cheap to max out magic find by salvaging ectos.

Not quite so useful until they give us something real to do with the extra luck essence.

I want to believe.Stopped salvaging mostly because of that ( not mostly ok but still :lol: ).

[Rauderi.8706]

@Shirlias.8104 said:

@Rauderi.8706 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:Think of it this way: right now, it is really cheap to max out magic find by salvaging ectos.

Not quite so useful until they give us something real to do with the extra luck essence.

I want to believe.Stopped salvaging mostly because of that ( not mostly ok but still :lol: ).

I stopped salvaging since most of the T5 materials sell for less than the blues and greens they come from. Even a number of rares are going for 9-13s, and sprockets took a nosedive after the Confusion nerf (thanks, ANet...).Not capped on luck, though, and doubt I'll get there anytime soon. Thankfully. Until we get a luck eater, I'm fine not building up gobs of it.

[Shirlias.8104]

@Rauderi.8706 said:

@Shirlias.8104 said:

@Rauderi.8706 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:Think of it this way: right now, it is really cheap to max out magic find by salvaging ectos.

Not quite so useful until they give us something real to do with the extra luck essence.

I want to believe.Stopped salvaging mostly because of that ( not mostly ok but still :lol: ).

I stopped salvaging since most of the T5 materials sell for less than the blues and greens they come from. Even a number of rares are going for 9-13s, and sprockets took a nosedive after the Confusion nerf (thanks, ANet...).Not capped on luck, though, and doubt I'll get there anytime soon. Thankfully. Until we get a luck eater, I'm fine not building up gobs of it.

I got enough luck stocked to cap more than 4 accounts ( currently 400 stacks of exotic essences ).And stopped because of nerfs and because as you said the price dropped for some mats ( t5 and ectos ).

[TheQuickFox.3826]

There is quite a price deflationary force in the Guild Wars 2 economy, resulting in many goods and materials becoming more affordable and making coin/gold have more purchasing power. In many games, like Guild Wars 1, the opposite is true, where there is price inflation, materials and good increase in price and coin/gold losing purchasing power.

Currently, in GW2: Cash is king.