World Boss Portal Device [Merged]

[Ashabhi.1365]

@Ashen.2907 said:

1) There is an in-game way to get it.

How, other than gold to gem transfer? Is there an event? or maybe a collection? If there is, then I'll retract everything I said. Otherwise, I still think it's too much of an advantage. Anyone can shell out the cash, buy the item and warp to a map that they've never been to. Those who don't, have to run or use a TP to a friend. At least TP to a friend is available in-game without the use of gems. Again, I don't object to it being in the store. I object that there's not an in-game way to get it (and I don't mean buying gems with gold.)

[Ashen.2907]

@Ashabhi.1365 said:

@"Ashen.2907" said:

1) There is an in-game way to get it.

How, other than gold to gem transfer? Is there an event? or maybe a collection? If there is, then I'll retract everything I said. Otherwise, I still think it's too much of an advantage. Anyone can shell out the cash, buy the item and warp to a map that they've never been to. Those who don't, have to run or use a TP to a friend. At least TP to a friend is available in-game without the use of gems. Again, I don't object to it being in the store. I object that there's not an in-game way to get it (and I don't mean buying gems with gold.)

When your objection is that, "there is not an in-game way to get it," other than the in-game way to get it, the objection loses its merit. Particularly as anyone can just waypoint to the location at will.

[Tails.9372]

World Boss Portal Device should have been an addition to a loot overhaul for world bosses.

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

@Ashabhi.1365 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

1) There is an in-game way to get it.

How, other than gold to gem transfer? Is there an event? or maybe a collection? If there is, then I'll retract everything I said. Otherwise, I still think it's too much of an advantage. Anyone can shell out the cash, buy the item and warp to a map that they've never been to. Those who don't, have to run or use a TP to a friend. At least TP to a friend is available in-game without the use of gems. Again, I don't object to it being in the store. I object that there's not an in-game way to get it (and I don't mean buying gems with gold.)

So if there was an event that spawned an NPC who then allowed you to buy the item for X gold or if there was a collection and one of the collection items is something you buy for X gold to get the Portal Device at the end, those would not give an advantage but buying gems for X gold and buying off the gemstore does give an advantage?

It’s actually less p2w to buy gems with gold as anyone can farm the necessary gold but not all can do collections if it parts of the collection/the event NPC is locked behind harder content.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@"Ashabhi.1365" said:I know there are boss timers, and I know that people who know about them will be there in time to do everything. I did not say that is was/is P2W... I said it's edging that way. P4Convenience is great... but this is more than just convenience to some. I am not saying it shouldn't be in the gem store... I am saying there should be another way to get it.

Sorry, no, it's not "edging" towards P2W. It is the epitome of a convenience item: it doesn't do anything that can't be done from within the game (using your memory) or with help from 3rd party overlays. It's exactly as advantageous as portal scrolls and comparable to coin-fed salvage kits.

To start slouching towards "winning", it would have to provide something that can't be done without gems, that isn't fashion related.

---

The reason I'm taking a firm stand is that "pay to win" is an important concept in understanding the practices of various gaming studios. It is something that most of us wish to avoid. If I ran a company wanting to do more P2W, I'd love it if people kept diluting the meaning of "P2W" to include anything that offers any kind of benefit. The more the border between "convenience" and "advantage" is obscured, the more likely it is that people won't notice when something really crosses the line. And the less likely it is that people will see the difference between ANet's practices and actual P2W, undermining the competitive advantage of those who don't sell "advantage."

In other words: if you want your games to avoid P2W, reserve the term for when it really matters.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:

@Ashabhi.1365 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

1) There is an in-game way to get it.

How, other than gold to gem transfer? Is there an event? or maybe a collection? If there is, then I'll retract everything I said. Otherwise, I still think it's too much of an advantage. Anyone can shell out the cash, buy the item and warp to a map that they've never been to. Those who don't, have to run or use a TP to a friend. At least TP to a friend is available in-game without the use of gems. Again, I don't object to it being in the store. I object that there's not an in-game way to get it (and I don't mean buying gems with gold.)

So if there was an event that spawned an NPC who then allowed you to buy the item for X gold or if there was a collection and one of the collection items is something you buy for X gold to get the Portal Device at the end, those would not give an advantage but buying gems for X gold and buying off the gemstore does give an advantage?

It’s actually less p2w to buy gems with gold as anyone can farm the necessary gold but not all can do collections if it parts of the collection/the event NPC is locked behind harder content.

Or parts of the collection were in, say, core and expansion maps, like the Caladbolg collection.

[King Vinas Solamnus.4852]

Awesome, they made my suggestion. Hadn't checked this discussion in months. Thank You Arenanet.

[Ashabhi.1365]

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

Sorry, no, it's not "edging" towards P2W. It is the epitome of a convenience item: it doesn't do anything that can't be done from within the game (using your memory) or with help from 3rd party overlays. It's exactly as advantageous as portal scrolls and comparable to coin-fed salvage kits.

To start slouching towards "winning", it would have to provide something that can't be done without gems, that isn't fashion related.

---

The reason I'm taking a firm stand is that "pay to win" is an important concept in understanding the practices of various gaming studios. It is something that most of us wish to avoid. If I ran a company wanting to do more P2W, I'd love it if people kept diluting the meaning of "P2W" to include anything that offers any kind of benefit. The more the border between "convenience" and "advantage" is obscured, the more likely it is that people won't notice when something really crosses the line. And the less likely it is that people will see the difference between ANet's practices and actual P2W, undermining the competitive advantage of those who don't sell "advantage."

In other words: if you want your games to avoid P2W, reserve the term for when it really matters.

FIrst of all, your use of 3rd party overlays can and may be against the ToS, so please, for your own sake, check to see if the one you are using is legal in the eyes of ANet. There are some that are and some that aren't and I would hate to see such a good debate adversary be banned for one.Secondly, I am well aware of what Pay to Win is. I have played games where literally everything you need to "win" the game is in the cash shop. Thankfully, this is NOT one of them. Pay to Win for me, is something that you are required to buy from a cash shop, whether it be by WOTCC or in-game money conversion because you cannot go any farther in the game without it. For instance, if this item was REQUIRED FOR EVERYBODY in order to combat any boss on the map, then it would be P2W. I never once said this was P2W. I said it was edging that way because the gem shop is the ONLY way to get it.

To the poster who said to spawn an NPC who would sell it for gold? No, that's not what I meant. I meant give it as a reward for something. The one poster said add it to the loot tables of world bosses. I think that would be brilliant. Or make it a collection of epic proportions, such as collect an item from every world boss in Core Tyria or something like that. Again, I am NOT saying it shouldn't exist.

The reason I am taking a firm stand, to borrow your words, is that I don't agree with some of the things that they have offered in the gem shop. As you said, it provides something that can't be done without gems (buying an extremely advantageous portal stone in this case) that isn't fashion related.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

tl;dr Reserve "pay to win" for things that make a game unplayable without spending RL cash. If you dislike a practice by a gaming studio, shouldn't it be enough to state that simply? Is there any need to mislabel something to make a point? Over- and misuse of a negative phrase undermines both the term and the argument being made.

---

@Ashabhi.1365 said:

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

Sorry, no, it's not "edging" towards P2W. It is the epitome of a convenience item: it doesn't do anything that can't be done from within the game (using your memory) or with help from 3rd party overlays. It's exactly as advantageous as portal scrolls and comparable to coin-fed salvage kits.

To start slouching towards "winning", it would have to provide something that can't be done without gems, that isn't fashion related.

---

The reason I'm taking a firm stand is that "pay to win" is an important concept in understanding the practices of various gaming studios. It is something that most of us wish to avoid. If I ran a company wanting to do more P2W, I'd love it if people kept diluting the meaning of "P2W" to include anything that offers any kind of benefit. The more the border between "convenience" and "advantage" is obscured, the more likely it is that people won't notice when something really crosses the line. And the less likely it is that people will see the difference between ANet's practices and actual P2W, undermining the competitive advantage of those who don't sell "advantage."

In other words: if you want your games to avoid P2W, reserve the term for when it really matters.

FIrst of all, your use of 3rd party overlays can and may be against the ToS, so please, for your own sake, check to see if the one you are using is legal in the eyes of ANet. There are some that are and some that aren't and I would hate to see such a good debate adversary be banned for one.The use of specific 3rd party overlays has been explicitly allowed by ANet.

@Ashabhi.1365 said:I know there are boss timers, and I know that people who know about them will be there in time to do everything. I did not say that is was/is P2W... I said it's edging that way. P4Convenience is great... but this is more than just convenience to some. I am not saying it shouldn't be in the gem store... I am saying there should be another way to get it.

Secondly, I am well aware of what Pay to Win is.Which is it? If you use a phrase like "edging towards pay to win" about a convenience item, then no, I can't agree that we are using the same definition.

For instance, if this item was REQUIRED FOR EVERYBODY in order to combat any boss on the map, then it would be P2W. I never once said this was P2W. I said it was edging that way because the gem shop is the ONLY way to get it.Surely you don't mean to insist that the existence of a cash shop is sufficient grounds to claim, "edging towards pay to win." There are all sorts of convenience items there and only a few have ever had reliable in-game sources.

To the poster who said to spawn an NPC who would sell it for gold? No, that's not what I meant.We already have that, by converting gold to gems.

I meant give it as a reward for something. The one poster said add it to the loot tables of world bosses. I think that would be brilliant.Then it's no longer part of the cash shop, it ceases to be the potential money maker the gem shop crew intended.

The reason I am taking a firm stand, to borrow your words, is that I don't agree with some of the things that they have offered in the gem shop. As you said, it provides something that can't be done without gems (buying an extremely advantageous portal stone in this case) that isn't fashion related.I have no problem with you stating a strong opinion about what should be offered in the gem shop. My point is that it's not edging towards pay to win, not matter how much you dislike it. Smearing something with a pejorative term to make it seem worse weakens the term and undermines the argument.

If your goal is to convince ANet to change their practices, then I urge you to be more selective about the choice of words. Describe how much you hate the idea of a class of convenience items that offers something that other games might include as part of their UI. Or talk about what you would prefer to see offered.

[Ashabhi.1365]

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:"stuff"

I will agree to disagree. While I understand your definition of P2W, the mere fact that someone can exchange gold for gems doesn't make it any less of an issue. If it is merely the term that you object, then give me a term you can accept. It is an item, without which, a new person has to either run (go find the waypoints) or TP to a friend (also a possible pay situation.) Convenient? Of course it is. I never said it wasn't. I also never said it was P2W. I said it was edging that direction. As long as it doesn't go any farther then I can accept it grudgingly. The day they offer something in the gem store than you cannot progress without, I'm out.

[Paleglider.2407]

Don't know if this was already mentioned, but one up-grade would be. That you could select specific world boss alarm only. Like applicable boxes next to their name

[asterix.9614]

I don't really pve much in gw2, only pvp and wvw, but recently I have been doing living story (boy was I missing out on so much, I am in awe for the storytelling and especially the sounds in the ls, imma good listener) and now world bosses (not for the reward :P). Anyway I bought the world boss timer portal and I know we can easily check for world boss in wiki, but anyway I was wondering if anet would add more ports for the expansion maps, I wouldn't mind paying extra, maybe add the other world boss as addon to the portal device so that we don't have to lug around with multiple device.

Ty

[Zeefa.3915]

I am enjoying the device myself. As you say sure we could use an external timer and just wp. But I only have 1 screen and the less I have to alt tab out to check things, the better.I bought this one so I probably would buy an addon to it :)

[Myrdreth.6829]

I would love an addon for this item.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

Gaile Gray wrote on 11 SeptemberThe short answer is that there aren't plans to expand or duplicate this device for other bosses or for the expansion packs. I imagine the team is always considering new ideas, though, so please do share them now and in the future! Plans can change, good ideas can be revisited -- you know how that goes.

FYI there's already an existing thread in which this is discussed.https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/32511/world-boss-portal-device-merged

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

The portal device is surprisingly useful for something we can do outside of the game. Not to mention it takes you right to the action if you're not in the map.