Celestial

[BikeIsGone.8675]

Since it doesn't seem to be realy relevant right now and Anet said they'd "adjust it if necessary", what do you think about an adjustment of it?Maybe 500 or 520 to all stats would be a decent buff at this point.Even if it impacts the meta ....at this point a more slow-paced meta maybe wouldn't be so bad imo.

[sephiroth.4217]

It could definitely use a buff, even more so with the skill split changes since they are removing quite a bit of passive might generation.

Even with intense amount of might stacking we currently have, it's still under powered and will be more so after the changes.

[rank eleven monk.9502]

Damage in general and all meta builds will be nerfed in the upcoming update. We can just hope it doesn't bring a bunker meta again. The last thing we need is enhance that even more with Celestial Amulet

[whoknocks.4935]

If I'm not wrong celestial amulet was already nerfed in spvp, this because it was too strong on certain builds.

Buffing it again it's nonsense and will make new broken builds one more time.

[Shirlias.8104]

Definitely not.It was a mystake to begin with ( because anet wasn't able to give all classes a decent hybrid build, and because of that eles and eng were facerolling all day long ).

Some players demanded celestial back again, and anet gave em a nerfed version ( which is underpower, and it's totally fine the way it is ).

[Aeolus.3615]

@"rank eleven monk.9502" said:Damage in general and all meta builds will be nerfed in the upcoming update. We can just hope it doesn't bring a bunker meta again. The last thing we need is enhance that even more with Celestial Amulet

Deppends bunker build forcing 1 vs 2 IMO (if the bunker dont mess up)would be acceptable, but some classes "need to be broken for bad playes" to reduce the risk, that is what makes some classes go vs 2-3 players and keep good damage.

I dont get the balance on this game, the problem is theskill quoficients and in some extreme cases how the skills design..., rather than the thinkets/armor stats......

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@rank eleven monk.9502 said:Damage in general and all meta builds will be nerfed in the upcoming update. We can just hope it doesn't bring a bunker meta again. The last thing we need is enhance that even more with Celestial Amulet

Don't worry about this guy, he just likes to argue every post in this forum, and never agrees with anything.

[BikeIsGone.8675]

@whoknocks.4935 said:If I'm not wrong celestial amulet was already nerfed in spvp, this because it was too strong on certain builds.

Buffing it again it's nonsense and will make new broken builds one more time.

Celestial hasn't been relevant since HoT release.Even back in the dreaded bunker meta of season 1 druids were essentially the only class who ran it.Bunker mesmers opted for soldier/sentinel amulet combined with durability runes....which gave them >1k toughness and >1k vitality.

Also: its not like celestial isn't in the game already. It isn't used in any build however. so if you push its total stat gain from 3220 (as it is now with 460 to all stats) to something like 3640 (520 to all stats), i doubt it would become brokenly OP all of a sudden....it is after all only a ~13% buff.

But overall I guess @rank eleven monk.9502 is right and maybe its best to put this discussion on hold with a potentially big meta shift around the corner

[Ghos.1326]

I think players in general just need to learn to be patient. A lot of people just want a very fast paced match, it seems, and don't want to enjoy the beauty of moving with ebb and flow, sometimes going fast, sometimes slowing down. It's all part of the game, and the matches are 15 minutes long so yeah. I don't want a bunker meta either, but i don't want a explode your face in .5 seconds meta either. There is a time for the bunkers to do their job, and a time for the bursters to do theirs.

[Jace al Thor.6745]

@Ghos.1326 said:I think players in general just need to learn to be patient. A lot of people just want a very fast paced match, it seems, and don't want to enjoy the beauty of moving with ebb and flow, sometimes going fast, sometimes slowing down. It's all part of the game, and the matches are 15 minutes long so yeah. I don't want a bunker meta either, but i don't want a explode your face in .5 seconds meta either. There is a time for the bunkers to do their job, and a time for the bursters to do theirs.

Exactly. There’s got to be a resemblance of balance between condi, bunker, and power instead of these drastic back and forths. It’s truly hilarious that the same people complaining about condi being too strong are the same ones complaining Power is too strong. You literally begged for condi to be nerfed into the ground and you got it.The problem is a lot of the people posting on the forum have little foresight into what they’re asking for. We all know Anet’s history of balance is... pitiful to say the least so whenever a post pops up demanding a 90-100% nerf of X I start cringing. It’s like Scourge, the mechanics itself are fine as the spec has zero defense against ranged. The issue with it is there’s zero reason to have a trait that covers an entire point. Sand Savant needs to be reworked but other than that the spec is fine. But no, people want Scourge nerfed into the ground. I just don’t understand it.

[Ghos.1326]

@Jace al Thor.6745 said:

@"Ghos.1326" said:I think players in general just need to learn to be patient. A lot of people just want a very fast paced match, it seems, and don't want to enjoy the beauty of moving with ebb and flow, sometimes going fast, sometimes slowing down. It's all part of the game, and the matches are 15 minutes long so yeah. I don't want a bunker meta either, but i don't want a explode your face in .5 seconds meta either. There is a time for the bunkers to do their job, and a time for the bursters to do theirs.

Exactly. There’s got to be a resemblance of balance between condi, bunker, and power instead of these drastic back and forths. It’s truly hilarious that the same people complaining about condi being too strong are the same ones complaining Power is too strong. You literally begged for condi to be nerfed into the ground and you got it.The problem is a lot of the people posting on the forum have little foresight into what they’re asking for. We all know Anet’s history of balance is... pitiful to say the least so whenever a post pops up demanding a 90-100% nerf of X I start cringing. It’s like Scourge, the mechanics itself are fine as the spec has zero defense against ranged. The issue with it is there’s zero reason to have a trait that covers an entire point. Sand Savant needs to be reworked but other than that the spec is fine. But no, people want Scourge nerfed into the ground. I just don’t understand it.

I forgot which thread i said it, but I suggested that many people read up (irl) on a couple books: The Book of Five Rings "Miyamoto Musashi", and The Art of War "Tsung Tzu". Great reads that also teaches on strategy that can be applied in every day life, as well as a literal battlefield, or even a virtual one. Taught me a hell of a lot in terms of moving with purpose.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

I would love to see a full celestial in PvP, but it would not save my Elly from being vaporised by high-gamage professions like some thief/deadeye builds.But every bit of survivability for Elly is welcome.

[Shirlias.8104]

@TheQuickFox.3826 said:I would love to see a full celestial in PvP, but it would not save my Elly from being vaporised by high-gamage professions like some thief/deadeye builds.But every bit of survivability for Elly is welcome.

Thieves also get vaporized by thieves and deadeyes ( if they happen to land a some hits ).That's why introducing the celestial is not the solution ( they should instead work on deadeye dmg, even though is everything but a meta class, and maybe thieves ).

[Mr Godlike.6098]

No point cause mechanics that made celestial builds work where nerfed, damage is much bigger then in season 1 and boon removal is standard in many builds...

So yea then can buff cele if they want...but it won't have any impact on meta. Even if somehow old dd cele ele was resurrected it would be still inferior to avatar sword weaver that's is and will be always inferior to mender druid...

[BikeIsGone.8675]

@Mr Godlike.6098 said:No point cause mechanics that made celestial builds work where nerfed, damage is much bigger then in season 1 and boon removal is standard in many builds...

So yea then can buff cele if they want...but it won't have any impact on meta. Even if somehow old dd cele ele was resurrected it would be still inferior to avatar sword weaver that's is and will be always inferior to mender druid...

ye, i feel the same way.Even if they fully restore it to 560 all stats, Im not sure if there would be a place for it in the current meta.

[Abelisk.4527]

I have played many builds recently using Celestial + Rune of Divinity for compensation, and the builds aren't as broken as they used to be.

The meta does not allow for cele bunk meta to exist. Period. It DOES allow for do-all builds that don't excel in any category rather just do a good job at them.

[Exalted Quality.8534]

Celestial is pretty much pointless in its current form. You have the same number of total stat points (3,220) as you would with a 4 stat amulet. Three stat amulets have 3,000 total points, so if we were to make the stat increase for 7 attributes linear, that would put us at 3,440 total points or 491.43 points per stat. It’s reasonable to round this up to 500 points per stat for a total of 3,500. This would make celestial much more usable without breaking the game.

[rank eleven monk.9502]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@rank eleven monk.9502 said:Damage in general and all meta builds will be nerfed in the upcoming update. We can just hope it doesn't bring a bunker meta again. The last thing we need is enhance that even more with Celestial Amulet

Don't worry about this guy, he just likes to argue every post in this forum, and never agrees with anything.Your point?

[Chaith.8256]

If any currently strong builds had all these 4 conditions met, Celestial Amulet would get play.

• Damaging conditions baked in, and cover conditions.
• Power damage.
• A couple healing sources to benefit heal stat scaling.
• 10-20 Stacks of might.

No decent builds have all 4 of these.

If balance changed and a few healing traits, condition skills, etc, were to become relevant, we could very well be thankful Cele wasn't buffed.

Yes, Celestial Amulet underperforms in this current balance patch.

[Ario.8964]

@Chaith.8256 said:If any currently strong builds had all these 4 conditions met, Celestial Amulet would get play.

• Damaging conditions baked in, and cover conditions.
• Power damage.
• A couple healing sources to benefit heal stat scaling.
• 10-20 Stacks of might.

No decent builds have all 4 of these.

If balance changed and a few healing traits, condition skills, etc, were to become relevant, we could very well be thankful Cele wasn't buffed.

Yes, Celestial Amulet underperforms in this current balance patch.

With the upcoming changes and the direction anet seems to want to take in terms of straight damage and healing numbers can you justify a buff to the amulet? I don't see 560 as a huge problem but if it's too much concern how about something around 520?

[BlackBeard.2873]

Celestial at 560 right away is probably way too much, and will lead to players gravitating towards it due to "free stats" making it far superior if all the stats are used. However, being equal stats, it will never be used, because it is always better to focus on picking the 4-stat combos that make MOST use of. There is a tradeoff between specializing (giving up stats to be better at something specific) and being a generalist (having more total stats but they are less concentrated).

For instance, consider if there was a 1-stat amulet that gave +3000 power and nothing else. This amulet would most likely be OP, as many skills with high power-scaling would become 1-shots, so it wouldn't even matter if you never crit, or had not vitality. On the other extreme is celestial, which currently gives you a little of everything, but not enough to even be decent at anything, even with might-stacking.

Thus, celestial DOES need to be buffed a little bit. 460 for everything is too little, but going all the way up to 560 is probably too much. Start at like 490 and see if it works in the meta. In all likelihood, it becomes the go-to bruiser/support amulet, assuming there is enough sustain to not get rekt by more focused builds, because it is the only amulet with vit, toughness, and healing power.

[apharma.3741]

I pretty much agree with what others have said 490 seems like it might be a good place to put the amulet at the moment. I guess it comes down to how nerfs happen but there’s no reason to run celestial if it’s the same total stat points as every other amulet unless a build can achieve what Chaith has said and there’s very few classes even capable of achieving 10-20 stacks of might on a decent damage, condition damage build with decent healing modifiers.

[messiah.1908]

@Chaith.8256 said:If any currently strong builds had all these 4 conditions met, Celestial Amulet would get play.

• Damaging conditions baked in, and cover conditions.
• Power damage.
• A couple healing sources to benefit heal stat scaling.
• 10-20 Stacks of might.

No decent builds have all 4 of these.

If balance changed and a few healing traits, condition skills, etc, were to become relevant, we could very well be thankful Cele wasn't buffed.

Yes, Celestial Amulet underperforms in this current balance patch.

you also mean evade/disengage abilities

cause renegade on paper has all the 4sb - bleeding and few cover condition also with sigilss/s power stathealing abilities with kalla leech and healfast 20 might stacking with kalla invocation and devastation

and still it worst cause no self sustain at all, no evade, block, protection regen etc...

[Chaith.8256]

@messiah.1908 said:

@Chaith.8256 said:If any currently strong builds had all these 4 conditions met, Celestial Amulet would get play.

• Damaging conditions baked in, and cover conditions.
• Power damage.
• A couple healing sources to benefit heal stat scaling.
• 10-20 Stacks of might.

No decent builds have all 4 of these.

If balance changed and a few healing traits, condition skills, etc, were to become relevant, we could very well be thankful Cele wasn't buffed.

Yes, Celestial Amulet underperforms in this current balance patch.

you also mean evade/disengage abilities

cause renegade on paper has all the 4sb - bleeding and few cover condition also with sigilss/s power stathealing abilities with kalla leech and healfast 20 might stacking with kalla invocation and devastation

and still it worst cause no self sustain at all, no evade, block, protection regen etc...

Renegade is a meme, I explicitly mentioned decent builds. Also, Renegade has a use for healing power stat? I'll have to cast a doubt on that one.

[BikeIsGone.8675]

@"Chaith.8256" said:If any currently strong builds had all these 4 conditions met, Celestial Amulet would get play.

• Damaging conditions baked in, and cover conditions.
• Power damage.
• A couple healing sources to benefit heal stat scaling.
• 10-20 Stacks of might.

No decent builds have all 4 of these.

If balance changed and a few healing traits, condition skills, etc, were to become relevant, we could very well be thankful Cele wasn't buffed.

Yes, Celestial Amulet underperforms in this current balance patch.

Wouldn't the reverse be possible as well though? Meaning, that a more powerful celestial amulet would enable such traits, skill etc. as well.Unless ofc you arent talking about mere number adjustments to said traits/skill but rather functionality changes.

I can think of a bunch of classes that would be able to meet those conditions you mentioned with the proper trait setup (engi, ranger, ele, mesmer, possibly even guardian). If they would be considered "decent" however, is a different topic altogether.