Why do all these equipment stats exist?

[Dreddo.9865]

...when most power builds in PvE use berserker, marauder in PvP and Condition ones Viper/Trailblazer and you have the occasional healer, tanky builds (Magi, Minstrel). To make the long story short only a few stats are used while we have 34 (!) in total (hope I counted correctly in wiki). Same story with all those sigils and runes, again most people actually use only a handful of them while most of them need IMHO a serious rework since they seem redundant.

I understand there will be the 'odd build' dudes experimenting but in general that's the situation more or less. So why? B)

[Ayakaru.6583]

Because there are people who use what they like, and people who use what works best.Those stats are there for people just so they have the choice of a bad build of they like it.

[Randulf.7614]

How do you know most people don't use them?

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

The short version is, when the game was made its combat system was designed PVP up. The different stat combinations just carried over from there. Anet wanted players to experiment on their own.

But, since the game was built from PVP up, all of the characters were given base stats sufficient for all aspects of the game. You'll have enough HP and armor to take some hits, you'll have enough enough DPS to kill things, you'll always be able to heal yourself, etc. Since you'll always be capable, there's little reason to build yourself in any way other than to maximize damage.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

In addition to what the Scarlet Spider said, there is also the fact that over the years players posted requests for specific stat combinations which were not available. If there's anything the history of post-launch development has proved, it is that ANet sometimes gives players what they ask for.

[blambidy.3216]

Some people break the logical thoughts of average people who make a build. And gw2 made a great thing that most mmos don’t do. Every class can do something different. Not stuck with just one thing they can do. You got condi. Berserker. Healers. Support. Etc. if you had a party with the same people you could always adjust and pick whichever build. But when your stuck with a couple of people, you have to stay in only a few acceptable builds or you get kicked.

Just get more friends so you can do whatever you want.

[joneirikb.7506]

A lot of these stats are also used in WvW, usually not primary but as secondary stats on some pieces of gear in order to tweak and adjust a build to get the "perfect" combination of stats, depending on what you want the build to do etc.

For example while Marauder is a popular stat for most power-roamer builds, they often mix in 1-2 other stats for some more defensive stats, for example Soldier is popular. Also people often mix in enough concentration to get certain thresholds of boon duration, to match their rotations etc.

[infrequentia.3465]

some of those stats are only for leveling

[Danikat.8537]

For me there's 3 benefits to having so many different stat combinations, but the short version is 'so that we have options'.

1) Freedom of choice - Sure the general consensus may be that all condition builds use viper/trailblazer, but maybe I disagree with the reasoning behind that (I don't, but hypothetically) or I want to make something other than a normal build (like my ranger who wears a mix of rabid and sinister) or I just want to experiment. If the game doesn't offer any other choices I can't do that and lose one thing I find interesting about the game.

2) Without bad choices there aren't really any good choices. Just like any other aspect of the game you need the possibility of failure for success to feel rewarding. There is no sense of accomplishment in slotting the 1 option you are permitted to use into the correct place and seeing it work as expected. There is (for some people) a lot of enjoyment in coming up with a combination you think will work, putting it all together and then seeing it in action.

3) Balance and builds can change over time. There was a time when the recommend stat combination for everyone was Beserker's and some people said the same then - why not remove everything else? Why not remove conditions completely since they were considered worse than useless, remove all other stat combinations (or maybe keep 1 like Soldier's for people who couldn't manage a glass cannon build) and just let everyone use what was clearly the only good option.

If you said that today I suspect people would literally laugh at you, because the game has changed over the years - not just new stats being introduced but new enemy design, new types of gameplay (raids for example) and balance changes to existing skills have made previously useless builds and stats desirable. If we didn't have other stat combinations we wouldn't be able to take advantage of any of that, and it may never have happened.

[Elricht Kaltwind.8796]

tbh I don't really understand the question. A wide number of stats exist so that people can tune their builds and design them to any specifications they like, tailoring them to any concept or to their play-style. I'm not sure why someone would object to more options.

[Khailyn.6248]

@Elricht Kaltwind.8796 said:tbh I don't really understand the question. A wide number of stats exist so that people can tune their builds and design them to any specifications they like, tailoring them to any concept or to their play-style. I'm not sure why someone would object to more options.

exactly.

if anything there have been various threads asking for new stat selections, only currently available for pvp, to be added to pve/wvw such as menders and demolisher.

[Elricht Kaltwind.8796]

@Khailyn.6248 said:

@Elricht Kaltwind.8796 said:tbh I don't really understand the question. A wide number of stats exist so that people can tune their builds and design them to any specifications they like, tailoring them to any concept or to their play-style. I'm not sure why someone would object to more options.

exactly.

if anything there have been various threads asking for new stat selections, only currently available for pvp, to be added to pve/wvw such as menders and demolisher.

Totally. Same with some of those delicious PvP sigils.

[CptAurellian.9537]

@Khailyn.6248 said:

@Elricht Kaltwind.8796 said:tbh I don't really understand the question. A wide number of stats exist so that people can tune their builds and design them to any specifications they like, tailoring them to any concept or to their play-style. I'm not sure why someone would object to more options.

exactly.

if anything there have been various threads asking for new stat selections, only currently available for pvp, to be added to pve/wvw such as menders and demolisher.Many of these stats have some purpose, though. The ones you cited, for example, are power stats with some added defensive/supportive potential. That's fine. But what's the point of something like PvE Marshal stats (major power, healing, minor precision, condi damage)? Such combinations make little sense at all.

[robertthebard.8150]

@"Ayakaru.6583" said:Because there are people who use what they like, and people who use what works best.Those stats are there for people just so they have the choice of a bad build of they like it.

I always loved this logic: You're not doing what the meta says you should, it's bad. I wonder if any of the people parroting this line ever stopped to think about how those builds that they claim are the only "good" ones, came to be? I've been theory crafting builds in mmos for a couple of decades now, and from my own experience, there is more than one way to skin a cat. Just because someone says "this is the right way" doesn't mean that it necessarily is, or that it will necessarily always be. What was the "right" build before the current FotM?

[Khailyn.6248]

@CptAurellian.9537 said:

@Khailyn.6248 said:

@Elricht Kaltwind.8796 said:tbh I don't really understand the question. A wide number of stats exist so that people can tune their builds and design them to any specifications they like, tailoring them to any concept or to their play-style. I'm not sure why someone would object to more options.

exactly.

if anything there have been various threads asking for new stat selections, only currently available for pvp, to be added to pve/wvw such as menders and demolisher.Many of these stats have some purpose, though. The ones you cited, for example, are power stats with some added defensive/supportive potential. That's fine. But what's the point of something like PvE Marshal stats (major power, healing, minor precision, condi damage)? Such combinations make little sense at all.

I'm all for more choices when it comes to stats. But just off the top of my head, menders i could see for support druid (not a fan of harrier personally), demolisher as a substitute for marauder even if just for wvw.. now a stat I dont understand why it was added was Crusader (and seraph prior to firebrand being added and even thats niche). I think Marshal is a dumb stat selection since you mention it. Had potential but the condition damage minor stat is a waste.

[Airdive.2613]

One great thing I like about GW 2 is that for every attribute, weapon and trait that you dismiss as useless there's a player who will use them to successfully beat you.

(edit: a typo)

[Zaklex.6308]

Some of us don't give a rats butt about meta and all that crap, there are people that use Soldiers, Valkyrie, Knights, Rampager's, Assassins and perhaps others...okay, maybe not a lot but I'm sure there's someone out there that uses them.

[Danikat.8537]

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@"Ayakaru.6583" said:Because there are people who use what they like, and people who use what works best.Those stats are there for people just so they have the

choice

of a bad build of they like it.

I always loved this logic: You're not doing what the meta says you should, it's bad. I wonder if any of the people parroting this line ever stopped to think about how those builds that they claim are the only "good" ones, came to be? I've been theory crafting builds in mmos for a couple of decades now, and from my own experience, there is more than one way to skin a cat. Just because someone says "this is the right way" doesn't mean that it necessarily is, or that it will necessarily always be. What was the "right" build before the current FotM?

I'm not sure about the person you quoted but some of the people who have talked about 'bad' choices (and good ones) aren't talking in absolutes. I think it's possible to make a bad choice when picking stats but not because I think some combinations are fundamentally bad and no one should ever use them, just because it's wrong for the build you're making.

For example Beserker's would be a bad choice for my ranger because she's using a shortbow and sword/torch - all weapons that do relatively little direct damage but pile on conditions. So the stats and the weapons wouldn't work together, making it a bad choice. (Which part is bad depends on what you want to achieve - want direct damage/beserkers? Switch weapons. Want to use those weapons? Switch stats.)

[Airdive.2613]

@Zaklex.6308 said:Some of us don't give a rats butt about meta and all that crap, there are people that use Soldiers, Valkyrie, Knights, Rampager's, Assassins and perhaps others...okay, maybe not a lot but I'm sure there's someone out there that uses them.

Valkyrie radiant guardian is incredible, and Soldier's is one of the meta choices for WvW. ;)I think I've also played p/p condi scrapper in Rampager's, but I might be remembering wrong.

[mindcircus.1506]

@"Dreddo.9865" said:...when most power builds in PvE use berserker, marauder in PvP and Condition ones Viper/Trailblazer and you have the occasional healer, tanky builds (Magi, Minstrel). To make the long story short only a few stats are used while we have 34 (!) in total (hope I counted correctly in wiki). Same story with all those sigils and runes, again most people actually use only a handful of them while most of them need IMHO a serious rework since they seem redundant.

I understand there will be the 'odd build' dudes experimenting but in general that's the situation more or less. So why? B)

As an "odd build dude" I won't call your post myopic I will just ask "Why argue for less options?"

[infrequentia.3465]

@Airdive.2613 said:

@Zaklex.6308 said:Some of us don't give a rats butt about meta and all that crap, there are people that use Soldiers, Valkyrie, Knights, Rampager's, Assassins and perhaps others...okay, maybe not a lot but I'm sure there's someone out there that uses them.

Valkyrie radiant guardian is incredible, and Soldier's is one of the meta choices for WvW. ;)I think I've also played p/p condi scrapper in Rampager's, but I might be remembering wrong.

soldiers isn't a meta choice, not in the slightest bitcelestial maybe soldiers nah

it is a armor set that could be used there sure but , it is the same as saying Trailblazer is Meta for raids because of condi and expertise

[Odinens.5920]

@CptAurellian.9537 said:

@Khailyn.6248 said:

@Elricht Kaltwind.8796 said:Many of these stats have some purpose, though. The ones you cited, for example, are power stats with some added defensive/supportive potential. That's fine. But what's the point of something like PvE Marshal stats (major power, healing, minor precision, condi damage)? Such combinations make little sense at all.

Actually, my sword/dagger weaver uses mostly marshal's stats. It's quite effective.

[Fallesafe.5932]

@Airdive.2613 said:One great thing I like about GW 2 is that for every attribute, weapon and trait that you dismiss as useless there's a player who will use them to successfully beat you.

(edit: a typo)

Yea, not true.

[robertthebard.8150]

@Danikat.8537 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@"Ayakaru.6583" said:Because there are people who use what they like, and people who use what works best.Those stats are there for people just so they have the

choice

of a bad build of they like it.

I always loved this logic: You're not doing what the meta says you should, it's bad. I wonder if any of the people parroting this line ever stopped to think about how those builds that they claim are the only "good" ones, came to be? I've been theory crafting builds in mmos for a couple of decades now, and from my own experience, there is more than one way to skin a cat. Just because someone says "this is the right way" doesn't mean that it necessarily is, or that it will necessarily always be. What was the "right" build before the current FotM?

I'm not sure about the person you quoted but some of the people who have talked about 'bad' choices (and good ones) aren't talking in absolutes. I think it's possible to make a bad choice when picking stats but not because I think some combinations are fundamentally bad and no one should ever use them, just because it's wrong for the build you're making.

For example Beserker's would be a bad choice for my ranger because she's using a shortbow and sword/torch - all weapons that do relatively little direct damage but pile on conditions. So the stats and the weapons wouldn't work together, making it a bad choice. (Which part is bad depends on what you want to achieve - want direct damage/beserkers? Switch weapons. Want to use those weapons? Switch stats.)

Compared to what? My LB/SB ranger isn't noticing a severe drop in dps on swapping to the short bow. It hits lower, but hits more often, although I'm running a split between beserkers and condi. I find that I'm throwing enough damage to wind up "tanking" mobs even in large OW groups on either weapon, so I'm not thinking it's a "bad" set up, except for that part of me that's played trinity games forever cringing every time I pull aggro off the "tank". Add in pets, and I'm not having a lot of issues, unless I get overwhelmed, or don't see those shadow skales before they see me.

[Ayakaru.6583]

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@"Ayakaru.6583" said:Because there are people who use what they like, and people who use what works best.Those stats are there for people just so they have the

choice

of a bad build of they like it.

I always loved this logic: You're not doing what the meta says you should, it's bad. I wonder if any of the people parroting this line ever stopped to think about how those builds that they claim are the only "good" ones, came to be? I've been theory crafting builds in mmos for a couple of decades now, and from my own experience, there is more than one way to skin a cat. Just because someone says "this is the right way" doesn't mean that it necessarily is, or that it will necessarily always be. What was the "right" build before the current FotM?

Well.. i’m a bioscientist.When I run a PCR i have the choice of several enzymes for my processes.In the majority of the cases, I have one enzyme that works best, in more than half of the cases.That doesn’t mean the other enzymes don’t get the job done, but they’re slower, and make more mistakes.When I compare patients to raids, I want as little innefficiency/mistakes as possible, so even if the lesser enzymes, I won’t use them.

I hope that put its in perspective.Bad was not the right word, but ‘less good’ is deffinately a thing. And depending on the environment, everyone can make their individual choice of how efficient they need their system to work.