What if Anet overhauled all professions?

[Crab Fear.1624]

Am I the only player that feels some of the specs are much weaker than others? That these strong specs seem to push towards a certain play style and flavor?

What if all specializations were strong and allowed diversity within what one may normally consider to be a class' specialty?

For example, while some players are just that good and can make it work, generally what makes core Necro weak?

Where is the core elite specialization? When the skill change happened, should it have been added in?

Obviously this is a sequel and things have changed, but today's Mesmer is a far cry from GW1.

Back then, necromancer was best at doing necromancer things, and perhaps that is why scourge is "so strong", scourge is literally necromancer things.

Some players wonder why reaper is weak, but how can you expect to fight on equal footing with classes designed for melee? (some do, no doubt)

The blurring of professions may be what is derailing balance.

What if class groupings performed more traditionally?

Completely hypothetical, but what class group (Soldier, Adventurer, and Scholar) would be the most dominate if the roles were redefined and strengthened?

Or, if the lines are going to continue vanishing, I propose that the next thief specialization be a dedicated healer...LOL

Edit: I realize anything like this would mean way more than profession changes (like totally game changing) , so ignoring all that, it is a what if, so it would be nice if we answered ignoring this fact, haha. WHAT IF SCENARIO ONLY for fun.

how would you design/redesign them?

[Swagg.9236]

Individual class details aside, just give everyone initiative and balance around a combination of that and low cooldowns. Merge traitlines and specs into a single "utility skill style" pool which features more equippable trait options than available trait equip slots and balance traits by giving them a point cost which subtracts from a player's finite pool of trait points (i.e. within a single pool, each class has 20 very good traits which span all specs, but they can only actively equip 4 traits at once and only if those 4 respective traits don't collectively exceed the trait point limit allotted to all players; trait points are refunded whenever you de-equip a trait).

[Imperadordf.2687]

@"Swagg.9236" said:Individual class details aside, just give everyone initiative and balance around a combination of that and low cooldowns. Merge traitlines and specs into a single "utility skill style" pool which features more equippable trait options than available trait equip slots and balance traits by giving them a point cost which subtracts from a player's finite pool of trait points (i.e. within a single pool, each class has 20 very good traits which span all specs, but they can only actively equip 4 traits at once and only if those 4 respective traits don't collectively exceed the trait point limit allotted to all players; trait points are refunded whenever you de-equip a trait).

NoPleaseNo

No “mana” system is why I’m still playing this game.

[storm.3120]

Is that a hint that they need to make GW3?

[Axl.8924]

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:Am I the only player that feels some of the specs are much weaker than others? That these strong specs seem to push towards a certain play style and flavor?

What if all specializations were strong and allowed diversity within what one may normally consider to be a class' specialty?

For example, while some players are just that good and can make it work, generally what makes core Necro weak?

Where is the core elite specialization? When the skill change happened, should it have been added in?

Obviously this is a sequel and things have changed, but today's Mesmer is a far cry from GW1.

Back then, necromancer was best at doing necromancer things, and perhaps that is why scourge is "so strong", scourge is literally necromancer things.

Some players wonder why reaper is weak, but how can you expect to fight on equal footing with classes designed for melee? (some do, no doubt)

The blurring of professions may be what is derailing balance.

What if class groupings performed more traditionally?

Completely hypothetical, but what class group (Soldier, Adventurer, and Scholar) would be the most dominate if the roles were redefined and strengthened?

Or, if the lines are going to continue vanishing, I propose that the next thief specialization be a dedicated healer...LOL

Edit: I realize anything like this would mean way more than profession changes (like totally game changing) , so ignoring all that, it is a what if, so it would be nice if we answered ignoring this fact, haha. WHAT IF SCENARIO ONLY for fun.

how would you design/redesign them?

Reaper has troubles because its very immobile, and has trouble getting to enemies.Meanwhile:It takes a lot of damage from ranged and gets wrecked pretty hard.It has trouble vs being cced hard by classes like mesmers and being kept at range.It got nerfed recently, and was made even weaker, and outside of reaper, necromancer is in big trouble vs its targets.

Scourge has a ton of cover condis, and i feel like its comparable to mesmers ability to strip a bunch of boons instantly, but in form of boon corrupt, and then you also have condi corrupt, which adds a bunch of boons.

Not sure much about all the clases, since i haven't pvped with every class.I can speak about thief druid and necro.

What would you propose to change about thief for healers? lets talk about actual spec, and be specific please.

[apharma.3741]

Most classes only really need numbers tweaks, overhauls need to happen when mechanics don’t actually function well. A case could be argued for an overhaul to stealth, thief and its initiative system and possibly rev however that’s mostly a trait issue but on the whole most classes function mechanically alright.

[whoknocks.4935]

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:Am I the only player that feels some of the specs are much weaker than others? That these strong specs seem to push towards a certain play style and flavor?

What if all specializations were strong and allowed diversity within what one may normally consider to be a class' specialty?

For example, while some players are just that good and can make it work, generally what makes core Necro weak?

Where is the core elite specialization? When the skill change happened, should it have been added in?

Obviously this is a sequel and things have changed, but today's Mesmer is a far cry from GW1.

Back then, necromancer was best at doing necromancer things, and perhaps that is why scourge is "so strong", scourge is literally necromancer things.

Some players wonder why reaper is weak, but how can you expect to fight on equal footing with classes designed for melee? (some do, no doubt)

The blurring of professions may be what is derailing balance.

What if class groupings performed more traditionally?

Completely hypothetical, but what class group (Soldier, Adventurer, and Scholar) would be the most dominate if the roles were redefined and strengthened?

Or, if the lines are going to continue vanishing, I propose that the next thief specialization be a dedicated healer...LOL

Edit: I realize anything like this would mean way more than profession changes (like totally game changing) , so ignoring all that, it is a what if, so it would be nice if we answered ignoring this fact, haha. WHAT IF SCENARIO ONLY for fun.

how would you design/redesign them?

The problem is how evolved the game with the new specialization.

I know after years with all the same core profession the game could become boring and so they introduced HoT and all new specializations.

The problem is, all of those specs (except really few examples) are not a different build, but a completely powercreep build.

Core necro was good, introduced reaper and it was way better than using necro, introduced scourge, core necro and reaper are trash (even considering all the balance patches and nerfs).

Same for other professions.The only one which had a weird involution is thief, in pvp the core is better than the daredevil and better than the deadeye.

But for example engineer, they made scrapper and it was broken good 100 times superior to core engi, nerfed into the ground and full of bugs, thry introduced holosmith and in all game modes holosmith is a must take if you are an engi main, because core and scrapper are trash tier.

The point of elite specializations should be play a different aspect of your profession, example ( warrior is good at power dps, berserker is good at condi dps), but this doesn't mean warrior is crap and berserker is good, they both should be exactly good the same and it's actually the player who decides which spec to play, if he likes more power he goes warrior if he likes more berserker he goes condi, and not based on the powercreep of the class.

Even scourge, the king of condis, now have a variant of power which is more viable than reaper itself, which should be a king of power dps in pvp if specced right, and instead scourge is able to powercreep reaper even on power dps and not condi xD that's hilarious.

[Blocki.4931]

Too much work for barely any gain.

[Axl.8924]

I think whoknocks hit the nail right on the head and is right about this.

A good example of choice rather than power creep, is rangers with druid spec.What classes need, is not a power creep to keep you playing new specs, but a different way of playing rather than just power creep.

I feel like the builds are rickety and won't hold up forever.Something has to be done to make different specs viable again.

[Catchyfx.5768]

If i take it from necro perspective.Core- shroud Is tanking Tool mainly Basic utilities And weapons.

Reaper- shroud does much bigger dmg, have shorter CDs And overall much bigger impact, you have aoe weapon GS And you get new(mostly better utilities then core have.)

Scourge-you can now better manage your LF , wanna tank press F3 wanna dmg press F5. You can use your utilities when you want, you Are not limited by shroud anymore. And utilities Are better then reapers ones And they Can help your teammates too( heal, portal, trail).

Necros elites specs make your life ezier, And playing core have zero benefits(for me, you dont need tankiness, or tools to Survive if you have Chrono,druid-or FB rev in wvw)

Same issue i have with core Guard And DH F1,F2,F3. Have same passive but active Is little bit better then core have(personal opinion). Differrnce here May be that core Guard have good utilities and ultimate, And viable builds-> So you can short the Gap in usefullnes between it( i dont talk about FB cuz i dont play IT that much)

I Think this Is What Anet wants. We get better Elite spec(Story/Area fitting) fór better life, doing same thing like previous one but better. I rly dont believe, they care about every class different playstyles And make them same good And impactfull. Maybe Its becaue im mostly on necro And guard. Maybe other classes doesnt have this issue.

Sry for my english. #howcanideleteauzocorrectonmyphone?Edit: totaly forgot im in pvp facepalm

[Vagrant.7206]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:Am I the only player that feels some of the specs are much weaker than others?

Um. Duh? Isn't this technically true in any competitive RPG?

[Lordrosicky.5813]

Given that it takes them 6 months to do 10% shaves on overperforming skills then I would guess reworking each profesion would take them until about 2025 so it really isnt worth talking about

[Crab Fear.1624]

@Lordrosicky.5813 said:Given that it takes them 6 months to do 10% shaves on overperforming skills then I would guess reworking each profesion would take them until about 2025 so it really isnt worth talking about

Thought the thread was dying,, thanks for breathing new life into it

[Kageseigi.2150]

@Swagg.9236 said:Individual class details aside, just give everyone initiative

I completely agree. Make a combat game actually play like a fighting game (Street Fighter, Tekken, Mortal Kombat) instead of an MMO. The initiative system allows for more versatility and adaptability. It's the reason I exclusively play Thief. If everyone had initiative, then no one would have to be nerfed because of it.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

I'd revert every, single nerf due to PvP and re-empower all classes in PvE to their original state. All nerfs can stay in PvP. And the reason why? No matter what happens in PvP, at least one class is going to be more powerful than the majority of others. No overhaul, no re-balance, nothing is going to change that fact.

[OriOri.8724]

@Kageseigi.2150 said:

@Swagg.9236 said:Individual class details aside, just give everyone initiative

I completely agree. Make a combat game actually play like a fighting game (Street Fighter, Tekken, Mortal Kombat) instead of an MMO. The initiative system allows for more versatility and adaptability. It's the reason I exclusively play Thief. If everyone had initiative, then no one would have to be nerfed because of it.

The initiative system is a horrible design in its current state. It would make the game far worse if every class was given a pool of initiaitve and lost the CDs on their weapon skills

[Kageseigi.2150]

@OriOri.8724 said:The initiative system is a horrible design in its current state. It would make the game far worse if every class was given a pool of initiaitve and lost the CDs on their weapon skills

The ultimate goal would definitely to be to emulate a Ninja Gaiden system, but as it is, the initiative system works much better for the Thief than timed-cooldowns. It makes much more sense for the Thief also, having to use specific skills at any given moment. It seems almost unfair to other professions having to be stuck with skill-rotations and cooldowns. Of course, they get more goodies to play with, so I don't feel bad for them.

[OriOri.8724]

@Kageseigi.2150 said:

@OriOri.8724 said:The initiative system is a horrible design in its current state. It would make the game far worse if every class was given a pool of initiaitve and lost the CDs on their weapon skills

The ultimate goal would definitely to be to emulate a Ninja Gaiden system, but as it is, the initiative system works much better for the Thief than timed-cooldowns. It makes much more sense for the Thief also, having to use specific skills at any given moment. It seems almost unfair to other professions having to be stuck with skill-rotations and cooldowns. Of course, they get more goodies to play with, so I don't feel bad for them.

Suit yourself. I loathe the initiative system, and hate playing thief almost entirely because of it. It also makes balancing your weapon skills near impossible. On top of that, its a jumbled mess that completely ignores some game mechanics (chill and alacrity). There are loads of ways to improve it, sure. But even if it were improved, I wouldn't want GW2 to turn into a game where I have to manage an energy pool on every single class I play. That's one of its biggest factors for me enjoying combat here, I can focus on my skills and not on my energy pool.