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Elite Suggestion | Wraith


ZDragon.3046
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I felt the need to do one of these so ill try to make it easy but it wont be. Note i didn't include damage numbers because 1 i don't know the system scaling a well enough to make good calls on that kind of stuff and it would have take a crap ton of time.

Elite spec Proposal (Wraith)

What I was thinking here is just this wicked shadowy shroud of a creature that hungers and chases to no end to get its prey. Its hunger fuels powers its strength.

Do note that while doing this I was peeking through the GW1 wiki for ideas with naming some of these skills and traits. Some of them are direct name copies while others have been modified. I know anet tends to do this.

The idea here is that it rewards both going into the new unique form as well as exiting it in some cases. I aimed to help the offensive portion while opening up options all around. Boon strip is limited allowing friendly pve use to not be hindered by the too many skills having boon rip or corrupt attached to them when they currently see little to no use in pve.Ideally the goals was to improve mobility and restore some freedom lost with being able to drip in and out of shroud while giving just a little resistance to damage and cc at the cost of something now that life force soaking is not an option.

Lets jump right in with the traits and the new shroud

~~

Sword Proficiency, You can now wield a Sword

Adept Major Trait Line

Adept Minor Trait (Ravenous Hunger)Death shroud is now replaced with Wraith Shroud, gain access to Feast skills.

Wraith Shroud

Life force no longer prevents damage from being taken from your health pool. You can receive healing for 66% the effectiveness from others in this form and use feast utility skills while within it. While in Wraith Shroud gain spectral swords in the main and off hand. Life force drains slowly over time 1% per second.Skills while in this form now cost a percentage of life force.There is a very low cooldown (7 seconds) on diving in and out of this form however a minimum Life force threshold of 15% is required activate it.

~~

Major Trait 1 (Shadows of Nether)Entering Shroud will now grant 2 seconds of stealth.

Major Trait 2 (Meekness)Successive critical hits will inflict slow for 1 second.(Number of critical hits to trigger: 5)

Major Trait 3 (Insidious Spirit)Upon entering Wraith Shroud for the next 3 seconds absorb the next incoming strike attack and heal for 100% of the damage it would have dealt. No effect to condition damage that comes with those strikes or previously inflicted conditions.

Master Major Trait Line

Master Minor Trait (Merciless Wraith)When you enter shroud gain 2 seconds of super speed. When you exit gain 5 seconds of swiftness

Major Trait 4 (Starving Soul)Your hunger motivates you when you enter wraith shroud, gain Regeneration & Vigor for 3 seconds. Exiting shroud grants resistance for 3 seconds.

Major Trait 5 (Shadowborn Hunger)Feast skill cooldowns are reduced by 20%. Using a Feast skill will make your next 3 attacks critical strikes. Additionally striking foe in stealth while under the influence of shadowborn hunger reveals them.

Major Trait 6 (Numb Heart)Sword skills cooldowns are reduced by 20% When you land critical hits with a sword convert 1 condition on youself into a boon. (5 second icd)

Grandmaster Major Trait Line

Grandmaster Minor Trait (Pain Suppression)Your dark path has lead you to suppress your emotions and ignore some pain.Incoming damage and condition damage is reduced by 10% while in shroud. This effect doubles to 20% and persist for 4 seconds after exiting Wraith Shroud.

Major Trait 7 (Fear of Starvation)Your first attack after entering Shroud inflicts Slow for 3 seconds. Your first attack after exiting steals some health. (does not scale with healing power)

Major Trait 8 (Dark Fury)Deal bonus critical damage for each condition on your foe.Bonus critical damage per condition 3%

Major Trait 9 (Shades Stability)You cannot be disabled in Wraith's Shroud. Upon being hit with a disabling attack Considerably lose life force instead. Life force lost upon disable absorbing 15%

The top set of traits (1, 4, &7) focus on rewarding the user for going into shroud as well as exiting shroud.The middle set of traits (2, 5, & 8) focuses on critical hits and gaining bonuses for landing those hits successively while also improving the Feast skills.The bottom set (3, 6, & 9) Focus on becoming a resistant Wraith Entity improving sustain through sheer damage or disable denial.

~~

Sword skills

Im personally not sold that anet can deliver a sword that wont be clunky feeling in the users hands. (No offense Devs)If I had to go with a second options it would be a mace or even a main hand focus. (punching weapon perhaps, but for now lets leave it as a sword to keep it simple)

Auto chainSkill 1.1 (Shade Strike)Strike at your target dealing damage and inflicting vunl.Vuln 1 stack for 5 secondsCasting time: 1/4 secRange: 130

Skill 1.2 (Shade Slash)Slash at your target dealing increased damage gaining life forceVuln 2 stacks for 5 secondsLife force gained 3%Casting time: 1/4 secRange: 130

Skill 1.3 (Wearying Feast)Strike at your foe a final time stealing even more life force while inflicting poison.Life force gained 5%Poison 1 stacks for 2 sec.Casting time: 1/4 secRange: 130

Skill 2 (Wraiths Pursuit)Chase down your target in a ghostly stream and deliver a strike that slows.Casting speed: 3/4 sec up to 1.25 seconds depending on distance traveledCooldown: 12 secTavel range: 900,Combo finisher leap! If nothing is targeted you will go straight forward the full 900 range.Slow duration: 2 sec

Skill 3 (Reckless Appetite)Become a ghostly stream and lash at your foe in a series of strikes from dealing increased damage for each successive strike that lands.(works similar to rev sword 3 with less strikes)Casting time: 3/4 secondEvade time 3/4 secondsCooldown: 16 sec3 strikesRange: 300, Single target onlyDamage increase on next strike for each previous successful strike 20%

Ideally this was kept very simplistic and Im not sold on my idea of unlocking sword feel free to leave open suggestions.

~~

Shroud skills

Remember that life force is no longer a damage soaking tool its now used to power these offensive skills instead.I tried to incorporate a pinch of condition here to accommodate those who enjoy condition builds.

Auto attack (Shred & Rend) is a 2 strike chain attack.Shroud 1.1 (Shred)Shred at your foe with your spectral weapon main hand weapon.Casting time: 1/4 secRange: 130, Number of targets: 3Life force Cost 2%Shroud 1.2 (Rend)Attack your foe with an powerful rending attack from your offhand weapon and deal increased damage for each Non damaging condition currently on them.Damage bonus per non damaging condition 2%Casting time: 1/4 secRange: 200, Number of targets: 3Life force Cost 2%

Shroud 2 (Lifebane Strike)Spin around and attack all nearby foes with both weapons, Gain fury for each foe hit & Feast restoring health based on damage dealt.Casting time: 1/2 secCooldown: 8 secRange: 250, Number of targets: 3Heal Feast: 8% of damage dealtCombo finisher Whirl!Fury: 2 secLife force cost 4%

Shroud 3 (Vocal Minority)Unleash a Horrific shriek that removes Defensive boons and dazes nearby foes.Casting time: 1/4 secCooldown: 12 secRange: 400, Number of targets 5Boons always removed before the daze is applied Stability, Protection.Daze: 3 secCombo finisher Blast!Unblockable!Life force cost 10%

Shroud 4 (Withering Hunger)Consume life force and Levitate becoming an even more hungering wraith like entity.While active ignore to movement impairing effects, gain swiftness & pulse out a wave of poison, slow, & Cripple to nearby foes every second.Activation time: 1/2 secCooldown : 10 secRadius: 180, Number of targets 5"Note" Damage per pulse would be extremely low for all this utility..Movement impaired immunity duration: 5 seconds, Number of pulses: 5Swiftness 5 seconds.Poison per pulse 1 stack for 8 seconds, Slow per pulse 1 sec, Cripple per pulse 1 secLife force cost activation 10%

Shroud 5.1 (Taste of Pain)Throw your off hand sword at a target foe. If it lands it will impale the foe and pulse slow and cripple onto that foe.This skill deals very low damage however when this skill lands it flips over to “Taste of Death”Casting time: 1/4 secCooldown: 15 secRange: 900, Single target onlyCombo finisher Projectile!Slow duration 1 secCripple duration 2 secNumber of pulses 4 over 4 secondsLife force Cost 15%!!!

Shroud 5.2 (Taste of Death)Break targeting and teleport around the marked foe striking them for unblockable damage.This strike deals heavy punishing damage, inflicts conditions, and stuns the target.Casting time: instant!Teleport Range: 900Strike Range 200, Number of targets 3 (if they are close enough to the marked target)Slow: 2 sec / Vulnerability: 5 stacks for 5 seconds
Poison: 5 stacks for 5 secondsStun Duration: 2 secUnblockable!Breaks Targeting!

##Feast skills**Finally I'm at this point and honestly I couldn't think of what else to give necromancer or a wraith like entity. I was going to use traps or deception but then I thought about the this force with an uncontrollable hunger that chases its prey to no end relentlessly to satisfy its hunger. As I said at the start I did look up some skills from Gw1 for name ideas and thus came about idea of Feast skills.** **Healing (Feast for the Dead)**Heal yourself for a small amount. For the next few seconds your strikes refund health based on portion of damage dealt. If you are at full health deal increased damage instead.Cast time 3/4 secCooldown 25 secondsInitial Healing: 1250 (scales with healing power)Feast time duration: 6 secondsDamage returned as healing: 25%, Bonus damage at 100% health: 25%**Utility 1 (Hungering Feast)**Blink to your target and feast on them inflicting blindness. For the next few seconds your attacks steal boons. If the foe has no boons deal an additional strike instead. Casting time: 1/4 secCooldown: 30 secondsRange: 600, Single target for initial  strike, Inital strike hits 1 time. Interval strikes can hit multiple foes based on the skill that was used to hit those foes  Blind duration 3 sec. Feast time duration: 6 secInterval of boon removal 1 boon ever 1/4 secInterval for additional strike against foes with no boons 1/4 sec**Utility 2 (Foul Feast)**Feast on the heat and life essence around you. Gain life force and inflict poison and slow for each foe struckCasting time: 3/4secCooldown: 30 secondsRange: 600, Up to 5 targets 1 strike Life force for initial cast: 10% Life force per foe struck: 5%Poison: 2 stacks for 8 second Slow: 1 seconds.**Utility 3.1 (Feast of Silence)**Daze and silence yourself and become covered in a shroud that block attacks. **(Looks like core shroud)** If 3 attacks are blocked This skill flips to **“Defiled Feast”** Cast time: instant / break stunCooldown: 40 secondsSelf daze 3secBlock duration: 3sec**Utility 3.2 (Defiled Feast)**Release your defensive shroud in a burst dazing and chilling nearby foes. Cast time: instant / break stun (so it can be used to end the self daze early)Daze: 2 seconds.Chill: 2sec**Utility 4 (Toxic appetite)**Dwell in your hunger and feast suffering of your foes whom you have recently afflicted. For a few seconds foes inflicted with poison from you take increased damage from the poison condition. Poisons applied by you during this hunger have increased durations. (on top of expertise) Cast time: instantCooldown: 35 secondsFeast time duration: 6 secPoison damage increase 66%Applied Poison duration increase during feast 50%**Elite Feast (Feast of Pain)**Make a short lunge to your target to finally satisfy your hunger **(like warrior head butt)** & bite at their soul dealing increased damage based on the percentage of their current health threshold. If this attack would down your target it kills them instantly  Casting time: 3/4 sec Cooldown: 40 secondsRange: 400Damage increase at 75% health: 8%Damage increase at 50% health: 12%Damage increase at 33% health: 16%##End**Please feel free to give me constructive feed back or suggestions. I did consider alot  factors of skills based on things that other professions have in the game alread such as animations, cast times, skill range. How ever I also wanted to add things here and there that no other professions has other wise whats the point of it being an elite spec right?**
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To be honest, when I first read the image that you have a a wraith, I imagined a system where your e-spec have to cope with it's growing hunger, probably something very close to what holosmith have.The top trait's focus feel off and I feel like without the shroud 2nd life bar, this e-spec lack seriously any defense.

What I suggest:

  • Make the spec change the way it process death's incoming life force
  • Make it punish you when LF reach 100%, you could call this a starving state
  • Make use of these 2 thing to create new original traits (well when entering shroud is far from being original ;) )
  • Add some defensive utility.

Eddit: I missed feast of silence, I'm tired I guess... I probably missed more if I've seen one...

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Reaper allows a bruiser-like playstyle, Scourge is entirely focused on condition and support, and wraith would be the squishy pure damage specialization... I like this idea.

Although, as you said, swords in gw2 do tend to feel clunky (for the lack of the better word). Your idea of making the focus into a main-hand weapon sounds acceptable though. The abilities could stay as they are currently, but I propose we add a ghostly blade effect to the focus when you swing it. Something similar to the black scythe blade that appears on our staffs when we summon circles (#Reworkstaff).

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@Dadnir.5038 said:To be honest, when I first read the image that you have a a wraith, I imagined a system where your e-spec have to cope with it's growing hunger, probably something very close to what holosmith have.The top trait's focus feel off and I feel like without the shroud 2nd life bar, this e-spec lack seriously any defense.

What I suggest:

  • Make the spec change the way it process death's incoming life force
  • Make it punish you when LF reach 100%, you could call this a starving state
  • Make use of these 2 thing to create new original traits (well when entering shroud is far from being original ;) )
  • Add some defensive utility.

Eddit: I missed feast of silence, I'm tired I guess... I probably missed more if I've seen one...

Understandable all around to be honest but i do want to address a few things.

You are absolutely 100% correct having a full row of traits that only trigger on entering or exit shroud is not very creative. It sounded really good when i wrapped it all together so i left them that way. I will continue to think over those one specifically and ill be sure to poke you with a few new ideas if you wouldnt mind hearing them.

I actually did consider hunger management but went against it for a few reasons.

  • It makes some traits or some skills too complexed or too situational. I wanted to avoid having too many skills that could do potentially 6-10 things depending one one variable or another. I dont think its impossible but it would require a good many more hours thinking to get it done even as a on paper suggestion.
  • I didnt want to copy the whole holosmith traitline XD
  • I considered doing the easy above 50% life force but with the cost of the shroud skills the spec would find it impossible to stay on one side or the other.

Being self punished it something thats very common across many necromancers traits and skills.

  • I thought that not soaking damage iva life force was a pretty steep punishment as it is considering that this is a melee spec.
  • I didnt want to do something becomes a trade off where the negative outweighs the positive by a mile. This happens way to often in necormancer traits.
  • I had glass assassin in mind when i wrote this so ideally it would be the spec that hits hard chases hard and pressures hard even more so than reaper

I did not make this idea with defense in mind so its part of its weakness I guess you could say.

  • Its literally the glass melee cannon.
  • I wanted the majority of its defense to come through offensive pressure, all the slow condition application, and extra blinds. (I had so much more blind when I started writing this but removed it because it was too much)
  • defense was not a big pint point but i wanted to make a few things that necro seriously lacked in its defense kit such as blocks, invuln for 1 hit trait, the ability to some what negate disables at a cost and even improved mobility!

I do appreciate the critical feedback though.

Late edit:If i had to think about some sort of hunger cost it would probably not be for reaching 100% life force it would likely be for reaching 0% in combat If you are not in shroud you cant reach 0 unless you go to a new map or something of that nature. But maybe there is a starvation punishment for reaching 0% while being in wraith form. As for how punishing that punishment would be I dont know yet and how the traits would work i dont know either. It would mean staying in shroud too long after using some of those heavy skills would be dangerous though.At the same time doing something like that makes me want to lower the cooldown on going in and out of that mode even more to something like 5 seconds even.

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@killfil.3472 said:Reaper allows a bruiser-like playstyle, Scourge is entirely focused on condition and support, and wraith would be the squishy pure damage specialization... I like this idea.

Although, as you said, swords in gw2 do tend to feel clunky (for the lack of the better word). Your idea of making the focus into a main-hand weapon sounds acceptable though. The abilities could stay as they are currently, but I propose we add a ghostly blade effect to the focus when you swing it. Something similar to the black scythe blade that appears on our staffs when we summon circles (#Reworkstaff).

The only reason i didnt think of anything for a main hand focuse is because we have yet to see anet make a e spec that takes a purely off hand weapon and puts it in the professions main hand. Otherwise i would have done main hand focus xD

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The overall concept fits necro thematically but some of the my opinion are:

Being a melee glass cannon, it would be great to have a disengage skill somewhere in weapon skills or utility which is important for re-positioning yourself from some big AoE especially in PvE. Reaper's defensive playstyle already involved heavy offensive pressure so you might want to tone down it a bit and add some disengege skill as a new playstyle of this e-spec.

You may have to add fear somewhere bcoz its one of the main necro theme. I feel like abandoning it in new e-spec contradict the necro's thematic purpose.

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Now that I've got a clearer mind...

I'd like to say that your "hunger" thematic really stir my imagination ;) . I think you could make the whole concept revolve around endurance management, linking hunger to endurance, with tools like:

  • F2: growing hunger: Drain continuously your endurance to gain a growing increase in damage
  • Make your minors directly affect this F2
  • focus more on weakness
  • add some ability that damage endurance and viewed by the system as cc ability (for breakbar management)
  • You could have a trait that deal damage (power) whenever you deal damage to endurance on a weakened foe (it could be named: "the pangs of hunger"... breakfast, I need breakfast...)
  • Maybe an in built resistance to weakness... etc.
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@EdDreath.2508 said:The overall concept fits necro thematically but some of the my opinion are:

Being a melee glass cannon, it would be great to have a disengage skill somewhere in weapon skills or utility which is important for re-positioning yourself from some big AoE especially in PvE. Reaper's defensive playstyle already involved heavy offensive pressure so you might want to tone down it a bit and add some disengege skill as a new playstyle of this e-spec.

You may have to add fear somewhere bcoz its one of the main necro theme. I feel like abandoning it in new e-spec contradict the necro's thematic purpose.

I didnt want to use fear because fear is to easily shrugged off and ignored. So i chose to use daze in stead. Also consider that people often use things as disengage that are not meant to be used as disengage. Some one could easyly turn around press sword 2 fly forward go into shroud then become immune to movement impairing effects. Maybe I could make 1 more feast skill thats pure disengage but I specifically wanted to avoid dropping loads of fear into the concept because fear is currently too weak.

Fear is only currently written in on the 2nd part of one of the defensive feast skills

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@"Dadnir.5038" said:Now that I've got a clearer mind...

I'd like to say that your "hunger" thematic really stir my imagination ;) . I think you could make the whole concept revolve around endurance management, linking hunger to endurance, with tools like:

  • F2: growing hunger: Drain continuously your endurance to gain a growing increase in damage
  • Make your minors directly affect this F2
  • focus more on weakness
  • add some ability that damage endurance and viewed by the system as cc ability (for breakbar management)
  • You could have a trait that deal damage (power) whenever you deal damage to endurance on a weakened foe (it could be named: "the pangs of hunger"... breakfast, I need breakfast...)
  • Maybe an in built resistance to weakness... etc.

Endurance play is risky because necros have 0 access to vigor i would probably avoid doing that.The weakness trait idea i do like. Over nigh i thought about this.

The cooldown for entering Wraith mode is now 5second

  • It now cost 30% life force to activate this mode.
  • When you reach any point below 30% you become hungry (Traits can also play off this)
  • If you reach 0 % you are starving and cannot exit Wraith shroud for 5 seconds
  • Once starving all skill uses drain a % of health. (Traits can some what combat or help negate some of this.)
  • The grandmaster minor Pain Suppression would likely become that weakness trait. However im not going to flood the concept with weakness as necro can do plenty of tha without an e specs help.
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@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:Mind if i borrow some of your ideas for my own suggestion?

Rather than taking someones Ideas and walking off with them I would have rather you left your ideas and thoughts here to help refine the idea as a whole. That was the whole point of making the post here.

It looks like you skimmed through it and then read @Dadnir.5038 's post then ran off to do your own thing literally without even giving any feed back. Not cool

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@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:Mind if i borrow some of your ideas for my own suggestion?

Rather than taking someones Ideas and walking off with them I would have rather you left your ideas and thoughts here to help refine the idea as a whole. That was the whole point of making the post here.

It looks like you skimmed through it and then read @Dadnir.5038 's post then ran off to do your own thing literally without even giving any feed back. Not cool

Well, if you want to be hostile, then:1) My traits entirely different2) My shroud is entirely different3) My life force replacement is entirely different4) My new weapon choice is entirely different5) My elite-only abilities are entirely different6) My shroud abilities are entirely different7) My class focus is entirely different

And now lets compare what our both suggestion have in common:1) Word "hunger"That's it.

So, not only there is no similarities between these two, but i also do not appreciate your tone and i don't even think i even need to credit you on my post. Good bey.

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@ZDragon.3046 said:It looks like you skimmed through it and then read @Dadnir.5038 's post then ran off to do your own thing literally without even giving any feed back. Not cool

I'm not attached to my ideas, there is no copyright on them ;) But thanks for the defense. I'd even say that it's somewhat of an honor to see them being used by others.

Edit: I don't feel he took any of my ideas ;) nor did he really understood my pointers.

Oh, On a side note, I'd want to say that anet feel like they try to use the 4 horsemen as archetype of the necromancer's e-spec.We've had death with reaper and probably plague with scourge. That leave us with famine and war and your "hunger" can fit famine I guess.

Edit (2): I believe that sacrificing endurance is something that is plausible as an e-spec for the necromancer. This would be really high risk, high reward (even if other would still say "necro OP, to much defense").

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i dont like a lot of this.

  1. this spec wouldn't do much dps, based on traits and the skills. you have to add some crit chance, some dmg modifiers and something extra. also lots of useless traits.
  2. shroud skills are kinda useless. no stability, blink but only when you have a target... also life force would be gone immediately if you pay life force for using skills and it still degenerates. and the levitation skill is literally worthless to use. (same as gaining stealth on shroud entry)
  3. utilities are the definition of meh. why do u daze yourself when you block?
  4. sword auto. why poison? this is a power spec. make it might or fury, something relevant.
  5. i dont get much wraith vibe from it, and you don't even seem convinced yourself.
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@"Dadnir.5038" said:

Edit (2): I believe that sacrificing endurance is something that is plausible as an e-spec for the necromancer. This would be really high risk, high reward (even if other would still say "necro OP, to much defense").

lol no invluns, no dodges, no endurance, NECRO STILL TOO STRONG ANET! ;D im in tears

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@Sublimatio.6981 said:i dont like a lot of this.

  1. this spec wouldn't do much dps, based on traits and the skills. you have to add some crit chance, some dmg modifiers and something extra. also lots of useless traits.Thats fine i appreciate the feed back and its not easy to appeal to everyone. Im not a fan of scourge for example. I also considered what necor had in its core kit and wanted to avoid adding things which could easily be used along side this suggestion. Necro has damage modifiers and traits to give it critical chance already. Other damage mods are there already in the grand master traits and shroud auto. Mayyyybe I could squeeze one more in there but at some point I have to cut things out other wise it just makes 1 thing op.

  2. shroud skills are kinda useless. no stability, blink but only when you have a target... also life force would be gone immediately if you pay life force for using skills and it still degenerates. and the levitation skill is literally worthless to use. (same as gaining stealth on shroud entry)Hmmm not being impaired by movement condi's is pretty big the cost on the shroud skills is a bit high but ideal they would be the hardest hitting power skills a necro would have in its entire kit. Degeneration is slow and arguably it could be completely removed but keep in mind damage taken is no longer a factor from lf with the degeneration.

  3. utilities are the definition of meh. why do u daze yourself when you block?Necro is full of skills like this where you get a negative for a positive. I wouldnt expect anet to do anything less if they ever gave necro any kind of true defensive skill it would come with a pretty risky or deep cost.

  4. sword auto. why poison? this is a power spec. make it might or fury, something relevant.Because every power build still deals some condition regardless of its spec. Necro is one of the few professions that does not need a ton of fury to get critical chance assuming a person is running soul reaping. I could splash a bit more fury in there but it wouldn't be much. Poison was thrown in because its a condition that necro seriously lacks aside from the last hit of Scetper auto an and maybe 3 other skills which all have very short poison duration it literally has none.

  5. i dont get much wraith vibe from it, and you don't even seem convinced yourself.My ideas shifted back and forth what each person visualizes as a wraith my be different so thats arguable

    Thanks for the feed back though this will help me on my next revision.

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@ZDragon.3046 said:

@"Dadnir.5038" said:

Edit (2): I believe that sacrificing endurance is something that is plausible as an e-spec for the necromancer. This would be really high risk, high reward (even if other would still say "necro OP, to much defense").

lol no invluns, no dodges, no endurance, NECRO STILL TOO STRONG ANET! ;D im in tears

Ah but, maybe it's not in the e-spec you're suggesting but, if you just look at the possibility, sacrificing endurance is one kind of high risk high reward gameplay that would fit the idea of the necromancer.

Remember that there are still players that think that necromancers have more survivability than other professions, I'm pretty sure that even if we were to remove the whole endurance bar on necro these guys would still say that the necromancer have to much survivability. Players of other professions have never been rationnal when it come to the necromancer's survivability. They see a high health pool and think that it give an unjust advantage to the necromancer, forgetting their own survivability tools. And the first to hate the necromancer's survivability are the elementalist, oblivious of all the dodge, evade, invuln, sustain an block that they have. I can garantee you 100% that even if you remove the dodges from the necromancer, they would still think that the necromancer have more survivability than them and say that they deserve to have more damage than the necromancer because of that.

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@Dadnir.5038 said:

Edit (2): I believe that sacrificing endurance is something that is plausible as an e-spec for the necromancer. This would be really high risk, high reward (even if other would still say "necro OP, to much defense").

lol no invluns, no dodges, no endurance, NECRO STILL TOO STRONG ANET! ;D im in tears

Ah but, maybe it's not in the e-spec you're suggesting but, if you just look at the possibility, sacrificing endurance is one kind of high risk high reward gameplay that would fit the idea of the necromancer.

Remember that there are still players that think that necromancers have more survivability than other professions, I'm pretty sure that even if we were to remove the whole endurance bar on necro these guys would still say that the necromancer have to much survivability. Players of other professions have never been rationnal when it come to the necromancer's survivability. They see a high health pool and think that it give an unjust advantage to the necromancer, forgetting their own survivability tools. And the first to hate the necromancer's survivability are the elementalist, oblivious of all the dodge, evade, invuln, sustain an block that they have. I can garantee you 100% that even if you remove the dodges from the necromancer, they would still think that the necromancer have more survivability than them and say that they deserve to have more damage than the necromancer because of that.

I never though necromancers survivability in pvp specifically was very high at least in todays meta. Ideally damage avoidance is always going to be better than damage absorption.

IN PVE however there is some truth to having more base survivability. Because the durations of blocks and evades is so small and pve content at end game can really screw you over in a few hits if you are not paying attention having damage absorption is better here and having the extrea hit points will keep you alive longer than evades or blocks will.

How ever people, not everyone, can be very ignorant from a pve perspective.Having sustain tools and choosing not to run them. People will take damage rather than run things like endure pain, mist form, arcane shield, etc... in pve, yet they have the nerve to whine about necro survivability when they directly choose not to run the tools given to them. But at the same time necro does not have the choice to simply go without it s shroud and even in the form of scourge sustain from barrier and condi dps to healing is rather strong enough to keep them well off better than most.

On a side noteIm actually revising portions of my suggestion and many of your ideas will be implemented possibly

  • Including endurance loss/being locked out of being able to dodge.
  • Adding a hunger system that functions directly with the shroud bar.
  • Revising the top row of traits that only triggered on entering and exiting shroud.
  • Adding a few more boons and possibly 1 disengage just because it was one of the other critical feed back points.I wouldnt mind if you would be willing to take a peek at them before posting them if thats alright.
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You know, everything need to be in constant progress and I won't say that I hold all knowledge. Post all your ideas there is no need to be shy, things might be adjust through my opinion like through the opinions of others ^^.

In fact, since the endurance thingy come from me I might be biased and restrict your own imagination which is not something that I want. A greater sample of critic is better than a no critic at all.

However, if you must, feel free to send me a mail and I'll take a look, this should still work I think.

Edit: I searched for the post where I had written my own take at a neecromancer's e-spec focused on endurance, but I guess it's lost in the mists of the old forum. Though I can recall that some thiefs came to comment on how they didn't want to see skills that damage endurance introduced in the game.

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