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Signet of Vampirism... What?


killfil.3472

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Just remove the ICD from the current skill and it would be 100% fine as is. Once again this is another case of where the numbers are in a good spot but the passive is limited too hard by a ICD.

Another Thing i would honestly like for it to do is remain active on the target that you cast it on for at least a good portion of its cooldown. in pve the heal gets eaten instantly in group events but per say a party of 3 people. Not even 3 people can take max advantage of it it ends up expiring with 10+ stacks left.

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What about just swapping the passive and active mechanics with a few adjustments? The passive provides your attacks with a "heal on hit" or life siphon, either one with an icd. The active would be "heal yourself, then heal yourself and nearby allies when hit". Remove the internal cooldown on the active.

Then you'd get a pretty cool signet that hybrids signet of malice with pseudo glint heal and supports allies who are trying to help you when you are focused or under heavy fire. The interplay would also be great, heal yourself up passively then bulk heal while taking hits to keep your health up and heal allies in a pseudo sacrifice mechanic. It also sort of gives a scaling defense when separated from an icd, acceptable when limited to only a number of seconds, something Necros have long asked for.

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@"Allarius.5670" said:What about just swapping the passive and active mechanics with a few adjustments? The passive provides your attacks with a "heal on hit" or life siphon, either one with an icd. The active would be "heal yourself, then heal yourself and nearby allies when hit". Remove the internal cooldown on the active.

Then you'd get a pretty cool signet that hybrids signet of malice with pseudo glint heal and supports allies who are trying to help you when you are focused or under heavy fire. The interplay would also be great, heal yourself up passively then bulk heal while taking hits to keep your health up and heal allies in a pseudo sacrifice mechanic. It also sort of gives a scaling defense when separated from an icd, acceptable when limited to only a number of seconds, something Necros have long asked for.

They would probably destroy the heal for doing that to be honest. You would slap some one and end up healing for like 98hp which is not worth it with a 1 second icd.

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Who thinks SoV needs a change either didn't play enough with it or in the right build.SoV's place is in a tanky build, traited. The skill doesn't excel in burst healing but in sustained healing, so playing it in a zerk build is just stupid, unless you care about that small dps increase thanks to the active.

What it does? Traited, heals you while in shroud, even if the signet is on cooldown for like 500 health without healing power(probably not for scourge since the shroud last 5 sec, but for a reaper build).What does it means? That each time you get hit with a ICD of 1 sec reduce the damage you take by 500 flat. While you're in shroud and you get hit on your lifeforce pool, you get health back. So the idea is that you take some health damage while generating lifeforce, switch to shroud take damage to lf while gaining health and you keep going forever. Vitality and toughness will save you from burst damage, with a paladin amulet you have power + tons of might with Spite, and you don't need precision because you have some insane traits for crit chance. The more you can stall, the more you'll benefit from this sustained healing, Blighter's Boon and other similar traits/skills aswell, and your opponent will not be able to kill you, while you have 2,2k power + 25 stacks of might, and 50% crit from traits, your opponent will not have as much sustain as you and will die or escape, soon or later (ofc you're not killing bunkers).

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Signets have no synergy with each other so they are all used ad hoc. None of them build on, or complement, each other so there is no reason to take more than one or two, if any. That makes the mastery trait way, way, under powered.

If you think about signets from a broad perspective, they look like they belong on a power/heal support build but they outright suck at the role.

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To be fair, Signets (across all classes) don't really have synergy; each one is very well isolated from another. That being said, I don't think the signets themselves is what makes them bad ... personally, I think that the shroud effects of Signet of Suffering trait should be baseline (because there are lots of traits that stupidly only effect you in Shroud, a major problem with this class) and that Signet of Suffering should get Retain Signet passive effects during Cooldowns.

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@Obtena.7952 said:To be fair, Signets (across all classes) don't really have synergy; each one is very well isolated from another. That being said, I don't think the signets themselves is what makes them bad ... personally, I think that the shroud effects of Signet of Suffering trait should be baseline (because there are lots of traits that stupidly only effect you in Shroud, a major problem with this class) and that Signet of Suffering should get Retain Signet passive effects during Cooldowns.

I completely agree with that.

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@MoonCrash.6713 said:Who thinks SoV needs a change either didn't play enough with it or in the right build.SoV's place is in a tanky build, traited. The skill doesn't excel in burst healing but in sustained healing, so playing it in a zerk build is just stupid, unless you care about that small dps increase thanks to the active.

What it does? Traited, heals you while in shroud, even if the signet is on cooldown for like 500 health without healing power(probably not for scourge since the shroud last 5 sec, but for a reaper build).What does it means? That each time you get hit with a ICD of 1 sec reduce the damage you take by 500 flat. While you're in shroud and you get hit on your lifeforce pool, you get health back. So the idea is that you take some health damage while generating lifeforce, switch to shroud take damage to lf while gaining health and you keep going forever. Vitality and toughness will save you from burst damage, with a paladin amulet you have power + tons of might with Spite, and you don't need precision because you have some insane traits for crit chance. The more you can stall, the more you'll benefit from this sustained healing, Blighter's Boon and other similar traits/skills aswell, and your opponent will not be able to kill you, while you have 2,2k power + 25 stacks of might, and 50% crit from traits, your opponent will not have as much sustain as you and will die or escape, soon or later (ofc you're not killing bunkers).

That whole statement is very questionable. lol

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@ZDragon.3046 said:

@MoonCrash.6713 said:Who thinks SoV needs a change either didn't play enough with it or in the right build.SoV's place is in a tanky build, traited. The skill doesn't excel in burst healing but in sustained healing, so playing it in a zerk build is just stupid, unless you care about that small dps increase thanks to the active.

What it does?
Traited, heals you while in shroud, even if the signet is on cooldown
for like 500 health without healing power(probably not for scourge since the shroud last 5 sec, but for a reaper build).What does it means? That each time you get hit with a ICD of 1 sec reduce the damage you take by 500 flat.
While you're in shroud and you get hit on your lifeforce pool, you get health back
. So the idea is that you take some health damage while generating lifeforce, switch to shroud take damage to lf while gaining health and you keep going forever. Vitality and toughness will save you from burst damage, with a paladin amulet you have power + tons of might with Spite, and you don't need precision because you have some insane traits for crit chance. The more you can stall, the more you'll benefit from this sustained healing, Blighter's Boon and other similar traits/skills aswell, and your opponent will not be able to kill you, while you have 2,2k power + 25 stacks of might, and 50% crit from traits, your opponent will not have as much sustain as you and will die or escape, soon or later (ofc you're not killing bunkers).

That whole statement is very questionable. lol

Just so you know, i'm not saying that is op (try it for yourself, I think is actually pretty decent), but that is the idea behind SoV and the build in which is supposed to be used.

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@MoonCrash.6713 said:Just so you know, i'm not saying that is op (try it for yourself, I think is actually pretty decent), but that is the idea behind SoV and the build in which is supposed to be used.

I have used it plenty of times and its decent maybe in pve but its meh, any other healing signet out there from a passive and active standpoint out classes it imo.Passively the big 500 tics you get from getting hit look like alot but they are really minor. Because while in shroud you can be bursted for more than 15k damage in 1 second you only would have gotten 1 tic of healing for what was several hits that just obliterated your shroud or you hp if you happen to not be in it. Ideally the cost of it only activating when you get hit shouldnt be limited by a icd. In pve it means you would never die to anything that was not an elite which I can understand the reasoning behind the cooldown at that point.

However in pvp it needs more than just a heal % adjustment or a cd adjustment for using its active. Not to mention the increase life force drain to reaper makes signets less effective if you run the signet trait.

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@ZDragon.3046 said:

@MoonCrash.6713 said:Just so you know, i'm not saying that is op (try it for yourself, I think is actually pretty decent), but that is the idea behind SoV and the build in which is supposed to be used.

I have used it plenty of times and its decent maybe in pve but its meh, any other healing signet out there from a passive and active standpoint out classes it imo.Passively the big 500 tics you get from getting hit look like alot but they are really minor. Because while in shroud you can be bursted for more than 15k damage in 1 second you only would have gotten 1 tic of healing for what was several hits that just obliterated your shroud or you hp if you happen to not be in it. Ideally the cost of it only activating when you get hit shouldnt be limited by a icd. In pve it means you would never die to anything that was not an elite which I can understand the reasoning behind the cooldown at that point.

However in pvp it needs more than just a heal % adjustment or a cd adjustment for using its active. Not to mention the increase life force drain to reaper makes signets less effective if you run the signet trait.

I can only think again, it's outclassed because there aren't very many healing skills out there that have an offensive component on a target. As long as necro has this 'life siphoning' theme attached to it, you can count on getting the short end of the stick of heals and things related.

@Anchoku.8142 said:The odd thing about Signets of Suffering is that it strongly rewards camping shroud as much as possible. SoS is weak outside of shroud.

Contrast that with Reaper's Shroud degeneration increase and Scourge's Desert Shroud LF cost.

Yup, just more evidence that Anet wants to encourage Shroud play. How else does Anet make a failed mechanic work on a class? by strongly encouraging (some would say forcing, though the pedantry police would come running) people to use it every chance they get.

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@MoonCrash.6713 said:Just so you know, i'm not saying that is op (try it for yourself, I think is actually pretty decent), but that is the idea behind SoV and the build in which is supposed to be used.

I have used it plenty of times and its decent maybe in pve but its meh, any other healing signet out there from a passive and active standpoint out classes it imo.Passively the big 500 tics you get from getting hit look like alot but they are really minor. Because while in shroud you can be bursted for more than 15k damage in 1 second you only would have gotten 1 tic of healing for what was several hits that just obliterated your shroud or you hp if you happen to not be in it. Ideally the cost of it only activating when you get hit shouldnt be limited by a icd. In pve it means you would never die to anything that was not an elite which I can understand the reasoning behind the cooldown at that point.

However in pvp it needs more than just a heal % adjustment or a cd adjustment for using its active. Not to mention the increase life force drain to reaper makes signets less effective if you run the signet trait.

I can only think again, it's outclassed because there aren't very many healing skills out there that have an offensive component on a target. As long as necro has this 'life siphoning' theme attached to it, you can count on getting the short end of the stick of heals and things related.

@Anchoku.8142 said:The odd thing about Signets of Suffering is that it strongly rewards camping shroud as much as possible. SoS is weak outside of shroud.

Contrast that with Reaper's Shroud degeneration increase and Scourge's Desert Shroud LF cost.

Yup, just more evidence that Anet wants to encourage Shroud play. How else does Anet make a failed mechanic work on a class? by strongly encouraging (some would say forcing, though the pedantry police would come running) people to use it every chance they get.

Play scourge or change profession, noone is forcing you

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@MoonCrash.6713 said:

@MoonCrash.6713 said:Just so you know, i'm not saying that is op (try it for yourself, I think is actually pretty decent), but that is the idea behind SoV and the build in which is supposed to be used.

I have used it plenty of times and its decent maybe in pve but its meh, any other healing signet out there from a passive and active standpoint out classes it imo.Passively the big 500 tics you get from getting hit look like alot but they are really minor. Because while in shroud you can be bursted for more than 15k damage in 1 second you only would have gotten 1 tic of healing for what was several hits that just obliterated your shroud or you hp if you happen to not be in it. Ideally the cost of it only activating when you get hit shouldnt be limited by a icd. In pve it means you would never die to anything that was not an elite which I can understand the reasoning behind the cooldown at that point.

However in pvp it needs more than just a heal % adjustment or a cd adjustment for using its active. Not to mention the increase life force drain to reaper makes signets less effective if you run the signet trait.

I can only think again, it's outclassed because there aren't very many healing skills out there that have an offensive component on a target. As long as necro has this 'life siphoning' theme attached to it, you can count on getting the short end of the stick of heals and things related.

@Anchoku.8142 said:The odd thing about Signets of Suffering is that it strongly rewards camping shroud as much as possible. SoS is weak outside of shroud.

Contrast that with Reaper's Shroud degeneration increase and Scourge's Desert Shroud LF cost.

Yup, just more evidence that Anet wants to encourage Shroud play. How else does Anet make a failed mechanic work on a class? by strongly encouraging (some would say forcing, though the pedantry police would come running) people to use it every chance they get.

Play scourge or change profession, noone is forcing you

I don't get your point ... Forcing me to what? What does playing scourge have to do with how Signet of Vampirism works? you still have to spend lots of time in Shroud, even as a Scourge, to take advantage of shroud traits and effects. Maybe you should take more time to read the posts and calm down a bit before reacting to them.

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@MoonCrash.6713 said:Just so you know, i'm not saying that is op (try it for yourself, I think is actually pretty decent), but that is the idea behind SoV and the build in which is supposed to be used.

I have used it plenty of times and its decent maybe in pve but its meh, any other healing signet out there from a passive and active standpoint out classes it imo.Passively the big 500 tics you get from getting hit look like alot but they are really minor. Because while in shroud you can be bursted for more than 15k damage in 1 second you only would have gotten 1 tic of healing for what was several hits that just obliterated your shroud or you hp if you happen to not be in it. Ideally the cost of it only activating when you get hit shouldnt be limited by a icd. In pve it means you would never die to anything that was not an elite which I can understand the reasoning behind the cooldown at that point.

However in pvp it needs more than just a heal % adjustment or a cd adjustment for using its active. Not to mention the increase life force drain to reaper makes signets less effective if you run the signet trait.

I can only think again, it's outclassed because there aren't very many healing skills out there that have an offensive component on a target. As long as necro has this 'life siphoning' theme attached to it, you can count on getting the short end of the stick of heals and things related.

@"Anchoku.8142" said:The odd thing about Signets of Suffering is that it strongly rewards camping shroud as much as possible. SoS is weak outside of shroud.

Contrast that with Reaper's Shroud degeneration increase and Scourge's Desert Shroud LF cost.

Yup, just more evidence that Anet wants to encourage Shroud play. How else does Anet make a failed mechanic work on a class? by strongly encouraging (some would say forcing, though the pedantry police would come running) people to use it every chance they get.

Play scourge or change profession, noone is forcing you

I don't get your point ... Forcing me to what? What does playing scourge have to do with how Signet of Vampirism works? you still have to spend lots of time in Shroud, even as a Scourge, to take advantage of shroud traits and effects. Maybe you should take more time to read the posts and calm down a bit before reacting to them.

Do you see mesmers without clones? Mages without elements? Every classed is "forced" to play its basic unique mechanic, and if you don't like shroud, just change profession. You could even play scourge since its shroud isn't that big of a deal, could be any standard skill.

Btw, as Scourge you can't even spend a lot of time in shroud since it last 5 sec on a 20 sec cd, soon 30 in pvp, a lot of traits don't even work well because they proc when shroud ends and you don't even have the 2nd health bar, so shroud is just an aoe + shield most of the time.

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@MoonCrash.6713 said:Who thinks SoV needs a change either didn't play enough with it or in the right build.SoV's place is in a tanky build, traited. The skill doesn't excel in burst healing but in sustained healing, so playing it in a zerk build is just stupid, unless you care about that small dps increase thanks to the active.

What it does? Traited, heals you while in shroud, even if the signet is on cooldown for like 500 health without healing power(probably not for scourge since the shroud last 5 sec, but for a reaper build).What does it means? That each time you get hit with a ICD of 1 sec reduce the damage you take by 500 flat. While you're in shroud and you get hit on your lifeforce pool, you get health back. So the idea is that you take some health damage while generating lifeforce, switch to shroud take damage to lf while gaining health and you keep going forever. Vitality and toughness will save you from burst damage, with a paladin amulet you have power + tons of might with Spite, and you don't need precision because you have some insane traits for crit chance. The more you can stall, the more you'll benefit from this sustained healing, Blighter's Boon and other similar traits/skills aswell, and your opponent will not be able to kill you, while you have 2,2k power + 25 stacks of might, and 50% crit from traits, your opponent will not have as much sustain as you and will die or escape, soon or later (ofc you're not killing bunkers).

Did you ever try to play like this?If you dont go for 20% more dmg or the booncorrupt in spite, you wont be killing anyone.Almost every class has more sustain than necro.Even if you play reaper, take blighters boon and the signet trait, everyone will just laugh about you.Cause you are wasting too much things for defense so there is nothing left for offense.

Well i played some wellomancer pvp games. But normally im just roaming in wvw. So maybe its better in pvp, but for wvw its the most useless skill to take right alongside blood fiend

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@Nimon.7840 said:

@"MoonCrash.6713" said:Who thinks SoV needs a change either didn't play enough with it or in the right build.SoV's place is in a tanky build, traited. The skill doesn't excel in burst healing but in sustained healing, so playing it in a zerk build is just stupid, unless you care about that small dps increase thanks to the active.

What it does?
Traited, heals you while in shroud, even if the signet is on cooldown
for like 500 health without healing power(probably not for scourge since the shroud last 5 sec, but for a reaper build).What does it means? That each time you get hit with a ICD of 1 sec reduce the damage you take by 500 flat.
While you're in shroud and you get hit on your lifeforce pool, you get health back
. So the idea is that you take some health damage while generating lifeforce, switch to shroud take damage to lf while gaining health and you keep going forever. Vitality and toughness will save you from burst damage, with a paladin amulet you have power + tons of might with Spite, and you don't need precision because you have some insane traits for crit chance. The more you can stall, the more you'll benefit from this sustained healing, Blighter's Boon and other similar traits/skills aswell, and your opponent will not be able to kill you, while you have 2,2k power + 25 stacks of might, and 50% crit from traits, your opponent will not have as much sustain as you and will die or escape, soon or later (ofc you're not killing bunkers).

Did you ever try to play like this?If you dont go for 20% more dmg or the booncorrupt in spite, you wont be killing anyone.Almost every class has more sustain than necro.Even if you play reaper, take blighters boon and the signet trait, everyone will just laugh about you.Cause you are wasting too much things for defense so there is nothing left for offense.

Well i played some wellomancer pvp games. But normally im just roaming in wvw. So maybe its better in pvp, but for wvw its the most useless skill to take right alongside blood fiend

Yes i did in pvp, and i understand that in wvw is just garbage, you can't sustain all that damage. In pvp I think it's viable, not saying you can reach the top with that, but you hardly die in any 1 vs 1 (and if you build it expecially tanky you can survive some 1 vs 2 forever, while usually you keep going quite a bit anyway), and even if you don't have that much damage, you'll slowly grind your opponent because they don't have as much sustain as you, so in a fight after like 20 sec they'll be forced eventually to leave or die. And since to win you need to cap points not to kill people, this is exactly what this build does, cap objectives and keep them. I'm placed gold and going up, that is relatively good considered that I'm not that experienced in pvp, since i came back to gw2 recently, so I'm pretty sure there are people who can do a lot better than that (and I'm kinda curious). But is a build made to play the map, not to run around and kill people, so it requires you to think strategically. Here's kinda what I run:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQJARWn0ICV2g12Am2A0bileBDaMVACAxPxo4Vc6Js1mXA-jJhRABjeJAAY/BtfCANXGAA

-Relenteless porsuit and meladru runes make you pretty much immune to kiting (that would be a weakness otherwise, since you need to hit your opponent to heal with Blighter's boon).-Switch shroud in and out to benefit as much as possible from life from death-you can switch the last blood magic trait to whatever fits you better-can switch signet of undeath, but keep in mind you don't have soul reaping and you need to regenerate as much lf as you can.-You heal 782 every time you get hit with SoV, without Last Rites taken in consideration, this means potentially 15-16k of healing over 20 sec and you're not even close with any other healing skills, plus the active for a burst healing (and is getting buffed). You also have signet of locust (getting buffed).-Usually a burst is not enough to kill you, and after that they'll usually have to wait their cds so you have time to heal back up.

2050 power + 25 stacks of might (easily generated they give 1k power up to 3050, thansk to awaken the pain) + 54% crit chance, enough to grind most build's healthbar.

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@MoonCrash.6713 said:

@MoonCrash.6713 said:Who thinks SoV needs a change either didn't play enough with it or in the right build.SoV's place is in a tanky build, traited. The skill doesn't excel in burst healing but in sustained healing, so playing it in a zerk build is just stupid, unless you care about that small dps increase thanks to the active.

What it does?
Traited, heals you while in shroud, even if the signet is on cooldown
for like 500 health without healing power(probably not for scourge since the shroud last 5 sec, but for a reaper build).What does it means? That each time you get hit with a ICD of 1 sec reduce the damage you take by 500 flat.
While you're in shroud and you get hit on your lifeforce pool, you get health back
. So the idea is that you take some health damage while generating lifeforce, switch to shroud take damage to lf while gaining health and you keep going forever. Vitality and toughness will save you from burst damage, with a paladin amulet you have power + tons of might with Spite, and you don't need precision because you have some insane traits for crit chance. The more you can stall, the more you'll benefit from this sustained healing, Blighter's Boon and other similar traits/skills aswell, and your opponent will not be able to kill you, while you have 2,2k power + 25 stacks of might, and 50% crit from traits, your opponent will not have as much sustain as you and will die or escape, soon or later (ofc you're not killing bunkers).

Did you ever try to play like this?If you dont go for 20% more dmg or the booncorrupt in spite, you wont be killing anyone.Almost every class has more sustain than necro.Even if you play reaper, take blighters boon and the signet trait, everyone will just laugh about you.Cause you are wasting too much things for defense so there is nothing left for offense.

Well i played some wellomancer pvp games. But normally im just roaming in wvw. So maybe its better in pvp, but for wvw its the most useless skill to take right alongside blood fiend

Yes i did in pvp, and i understand that in wvw is just garbage, you can't sustain all that damage. In pvp I think it's viable, not saying you can reach the top with that, but you hardly die in any 1 vs 1 (and if you build it expecially tanky you can survive some 1 vs 2 forever, while usually you keep going quite a bit anyway), and even if you don't have that much damage, you'll slowly grind your opponent because they don't have as much sustain as you, so in a fight after like 20 sec they'll be forced eventually to leave or die. And since to win you need to cap points not to kill people, this is exactly what this build does, cap objectives and keep them. I'm placed gold and going up, that is relatively good considered that I'm not that experienced in pvp, since i came back to gw2 recently, so I'm pretty sure there are people who can do a lot better than that (and I'm kinda curious). But is a build made to play the map, not to run around and kill people, so it requires you to think strategically. Here's kinda what I run:

-Relenteless porsuit and meladru runes make you pretty much immune to kiting (that would be a weakness otherwise, since you need to hit your opponent to heal with Blighter's boon).-Switch shroud in and out to benefit as much as possible from life from death-you can switch the last blood magic trait to whatever fits you better-can switch signet of undeath, but keep in mind you don't have soul reaping and you need to regenerate as much lf as you can.-You heal 782 every time you get hit with SoV, without Last Rites taken in consideration, this means potentially 15-16k of healing over 20 sec and you're not even close with any other healing skills, plus the active for a burst healing (and is getting buffed). You also have signet of locust (getting buffed).-Usually a burst is not enough to kill you, and after that they'll usually have to wait their cds so you have time to heal back up.

2050 power + 25 stacks of might (easily generated they give 1k power up to 3050, thansk to awaken the pain) + 54% crit chance, enough to grind most build's healthbar.

I think picking bitter chill and vampiric presence would be better.

I tried something similar to this in wvw. But this build is really damn useless there. Its burst or getting bursted. There rlly are no long sustain fights.

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@MoonCrash.6713 said:

@MoonCrash.6713 said:Just so you know, i'm not saying that is op (try it for yourself, I think is actually pretty decent), but that is the idea behind SoV and the build in which is supposed to be used.

I have used it plenty of times and its decent maybe in pve but its meh, any other healing signet out there from a passive and active standpoint out classes it imo.Passively the big 500 tics you get from getting hit look like alot but they are really minor. Because while in shroud you can be bursted for more than 15k damage in 1 second you only would have gotten 1 tic of healing for what was several hits that just obliterated your shroud or you hp if you happen to not be in it. Ideally the cost of it only activating when you get hit shouldnt be limited by a icd. In pve it means you would never die to anything that was not an elite which I can understand the reasoning behind the cooldown at that point.

However in pvp it needs more than just a heal % adjustment or a cd adjustment for using its active. Not to mention the increase life force drain to reaper makes signets less effective if you run the signet trait.

I can only think again, it's outclassed because there aren't very many healing skills out there that have an offensive component on a target. As long as necro has this 'life siphoning' theme attached to it, you can count on getting the short end of the stick of heals and things related.

@"Anchoku.8142" said:The odd thing about Signets of Suffering is that it strongly rewards camping shroud as much as possible. SoS is weak outside of shroud.

Contrast that with Reaper's Shroud degeneration increase and Scourge's Desert Shroud LF cost.

Yup, just more evidence that Anet wants to encourage Shroud play. How else does Anet make a failed mechanic work on a class? by strongly encouraging (some would say forcing, though the pedantry police would come running) people to use it every chance they get.

Play scourge or change profession, noone is forcing you

I don't get your point ... Forcing me to what? What does playing scourge have to do with how Signet of Vampirism works? you still have to spend lots of time in Shroud, even as a Scourge, to take advantage of shroud traits and effects. Maybe you should take more time to read the posts and calm down a bit before reacting to them.

Do you see mesmers without clones? Mages without elements? Every classed is "forced" to play its basic unique mechanic, and if you don't like shroud, just change profession. You could even play scourge since its shroud isn't that big of a deal, could be any standard skill.

Btw, as Scourge you can't even spend a lot of time in shroud since it last 5 sec on a 20 sec cd, soon 30 in pvp, a lot of traits don't even work well because they proc when shroud ends and you don't even have the 2nd health bar, so shroud is just an aoe + shield most of the time.

LOL thats not even the same thing. Im talking about signets where did you get clones and elements from?

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@Nimon.7840 said:

@MoonCrash.6713 said:Who thinks SoV needs a change either didn't play enough with it or in the right build.SoV's place is in a tanky build, traited. The skill doesn't excel in burst healing but in sustained healing, so playing it in a zerk build is just stupid, unless you care about that small dps increase thanks to the active.

What it does?
Traited, heals you while in shroud, even if the signet is on cooldown
for like 500 health without healing power(probably not for scourge since the shroud last 5 sec, but for a reaper build).What does it means? That each time you get hit with a ICD of 1 sec reduce the damage you take by 500 flat.
While you're in shroud and you get hit on your lifeforce pool, you get health back
. So the idea is that you take some health damage while generating lifeforce, switch to shroud take damage to lf while gaining health and you keep going forever. Vitality and toughness will save you from burst damage, with a paladin amulet you have power + tons of might with Spite, and you don't need precision because you have some insane traits for crit chance. The more you can stall, the more you'll benefit from this sustained healing, Blighter's Boon and other similar traits/skills aswell, and your opponent will not be able to kill you, while you have 2,2k power + 25 stacks of might, and 50% crit from traits, your opponent will not have as much sustain as you and will die or escape, soon or later (ofc you're not killing bunkers).

Did you ever try to play like this?If you dont go for 20% more dmg or the booncorrupt in spite, you wont be killing anyone.Almost every class has more sustain than necro.Even if you play reaper, take blighters boon and the signet trait, everyone will just laugh about you.Cause you are wasting too much things for defense so there is nothing left for offense.

Well i played some wellomancer pvp games. But normally im just roaming in wvw. So maybe its better in pvp, but for wvw its the most useless skill to take right alongside blood fiend

Yes i did in pvp, and i understand that in wvw is just garbage, you can't sustain all that damage. In pvp I think it's viable, not saying you can reach the top with that, but you hardly die in any 1 vs 1 (and if you build it expecially tanky you can survive some 1 vs 2 forever, while usually you keep going quite a bit anyway), and even if you don't have that much damage, you'll slowly grind your opponent because they don't have as much sustain as you, so in a fight after like 20 sec they'll be forced eventually to leave or die. And since to win you need to cap points not to kill people, this is exactly what this build does, cap objectives and keep them. I'm placed gold and going up, that is relatively good considered that I'm not that experienced in pvp, since i came back to gw2 recently, so I'm pretty sure there are people who can do a lot better than that (and I'm kinda curious). But is a build made to play the map, not to run around and kill people, so it requires you to think strategically. Here's kinda what I run:

-Relenteless porsuit and meladru runes make you pretty much immune to kiting (that would be a weakness otherwise, since you need to hit your opponent to heal with Blighter's boon).-Switch shroud in and out to benefit as much as possible from life from death-you can switch the last blood magic trait to whatever fits you better-can switch signet of undeath, but keep in mind you don't have soul reaping and you need to regenerate as much lf as you can.-You heal 782 every time you get hit with SoV, without Last Rites taken in consideration, this means potentially 15-16k of healing over 20 sec and you're not even close with any other healing skills, plus the active for a burst healing (and is getting buffed). You also have signet of locust (getting buffed).-Usually a burst is not enough to kill you, and after that they'll usually have to wait their cds so you have time to heal back up.

2050 power + 25 stacks of might (easily generated they give 1k power up to 3050, thansk to awaken the pain) + 54% crit chance, enough to grind most build's healthbar.

I think picking bitter chill and vampiric presence would be better.

I tried something similar to this in wvw. But this build is really kitten useless there. Its burst or getting bursted. There rlly are no long sustain fights.

This build is for spvp not for wvw, as i said in wvw this is garbage, you don't have mobility invuln, block, or stuff that completely prevent the damage coming from a multitude of people, and you can't sustain it, however in pvp in 1 vs 1 and 1 vs 2 scenarios, you can sustain that damage if played well, and the advantage is that you don't rely on cds like distortion, block, invuln ...

Bitter chill is a matter of preference i guess, i dont like it that much in this build since doesnt run some chill traits, and vulnerability effectiveness scales with your damage because is %, and since it's not much you don't gain much; if you can kill someone, you'll kill it with or without vuln, it's a grind, it will just take some more time

Vampiric presence instead i think is bad in spvp, the other trait i picked gives you way more sustain, you can control it exiting shroud (not with scourge) and dont require you hitting stuff every half second

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@MoonCrash.6713 said:

@MoonCrash.6713 said:Just so you know, i'm not saying that is op (try it for yourself, I think is actually pretty decent), but that is the idea behind SoV and the build in which is supposed to be used.

I have used it plenty of times and its decent maybe in pve but its meh, any other healing signet out there from a passive and active standpoint out classes it imo.Passively the big 500 tics you get from getting hit look like alot but they are really minor. Because while in shroud you can be bursted for more than 15k damage in 1 second you only would have gotten 1 tic of healing for what was several hits that just obliterated your shroud or you hp if you happen to not be in it. Ideally the cost of it only activating when you get hit shouldnt be limited by a icd. In pve it means you would never die to anything that was not an elite which I can understand the reasoning behind the cooldown at that point.

However in pvp it needs more than just a heal % adjustment or a cd adjustment for using its active. Not to mention the increase life force drain to reaper makes signets less effective if you run the signet trait.

I can only think again, it's outclassed because there aren't very many healing skills out there that have an offensive component on a target. As long as necro has this 'life siphoning' theme attached to it, you can count on getting the short end of the stick of heals and things related.

@"Anchoku.8142" said:The odd thing about Signets of Suffering is that it strongly rewards camping shroud as much as possible. SoS is weak outside of shroud.

Contrast that with Reaper's Shroud degeneration increase and Scourge's Desert Shroud LF cost.

Yup, just more evidence that Anet wants to encourage Shroud play. How else does Anet make a failed mechanic work on a class? by strongly encouraging (some would say forcing, though the pedantry police would come running) people to use it every chance they get.

Play scourge or change profession, noone is forcing you

I don't get your point ... Forcing me to what? What does playing scourge have to do with how Signet of Vampirism works? you still have to spend lots of time in Shroud, even as a Scourge, to take advantage of shroud traits and effects. Maybe you should take more time to read the posts and calm down a bit before reacting to them.

Do you see mesmers without clones? Mages without elements? Every classed is "forced" to play its basic unique mechanic, and if you don't like shroud, just change profession. You could even play scourge since its shroud isn't that big of a deal, could be any standard skill.

Btw, as Scourge you can't even spend a lot of time in shroud since it last 5 sec on a 20 sec cd, soon 30 in pvp, a lot of traits don't even work well because they proc when shroud ends and you don't even have the 2nd health bar, so shroud is just an aoe + shield most of the time.

I still don't get what the point of your post was to me. Playing Scourge or changing profession was a thoughtless response to my post.

To be honest, yes I do see classes that don't play their defining elements, because for most classes, they aren't overly dependent on their defining element. That's what makes necros seem like they are getting the shaft ... TOO much of what makes the class is dumped into shroud so you MUST play your defining element to even access many of your useful skills; the WORST part is that what you access in shroud is a fixed set of skills (at least for core and Reaper) so you instantly lose a portion of your selected build skills when in it. That risk/reward profile is the pits because honestly, the Shrouds just aren't good enough for me to give up a build that I've though up and made thoughtful choices on. This is actually the only reason Scourge is so good ... my life force pool is useful for skills that AREN'T just limited to shroud AND I'm not transformed to a second rate set of skills unrelated to my build when I use Desert Shroud.

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