The state of Necromancer as a whole.....

[Ceriph.3518]

There's a pretty interesting topic going on Reddit right now ( https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/879gue/as_necro_main_i_compiled_an_album_of_how_im_being/) basically outlining the pure hatred that comes out of playing power reaper/Necro as a whole in end game PVE. I think it's safe to say that Necromancer has been the laughing stock in PVE for far too long, with only a short time pre Death Magic nerf, and the semi recent change to shroud skills on Scourge.

[Vlad Morbius.1759]

Doubt it'll change anytime soon as it is pretty obvious the bulk of balance revolves around PvP. I've seen a lot of that post and it only reaffirms why I don't join most group content, it pretty much impossible trying to put up with the trashing. I enjoy playing my power reaper and have no intention of being bullied into playing something i don't enjoy but gets real old after being around here since beta with no hope in sight.

[Agrippa.1693]

And again, more proof of the lovely state of the Necro. I REALLY hope things are going to change tonight! We'll see.

Btw, it's an interesting thread, where most of the posters talk about community changes, etc. But in my opinion it's really just one side only that can fix this, and that is ANet themselves. Here you see a lot of examples where arguably one of the very best Necro players out there (Sublimatio) outperforms most of the other DPS classes. But the real problem lies in the sheer difference compared to if she's in fact next to a capable Weaver (i.e.), let alone one of the best Weavers out there. It's a far cry from what a Power Reaper is even capable of! And because you can't see beforehand if someone is capable or not, it's up to ANet to close that ceiling gap, not the community!

[Zero.3871]

yeah, Core necro and reaper are far away from any meta.hope one day they will get some real buffs. currently i see many other core and hot classes find their way back to meta in different game modes, so now it should be the time for necro to get back too.i think necro community is great, and many dont want to Change their class just because other classes are more useful. i also tried other classes but non of them were fun at all. so i returned to wait...until the rainy days end.

[Axl.8924]

I fear that it will just continue on forever.Maybe this is my nagging feeling i get, but i see people cry about necros and these ones who cry get necros nerfed hard, then you end up with a class thats under performing in pve.

The glitch that kept us desired in pve? gotten rid of and we got a nerf on top of it, making us go from meta dps to under performing, then we got nerfed with the delay thing, which shouldn't even happen in pve because we were already under performing.Now we will probably take even more pve nerfs until its like why bother?

[Nimon.7840]

@Axl.8924 said:I fear that it will just continue on forever.Maybe this is my nagging feeling i get, but i see people cry about necros and these ones who cry get necros nerfed hard, then you end up with a class thats under performing in pve.

The glitch that kept us desired in pve? gotten rid of and we got a nerf on top of it, making us go from meta dps to under performing, then we got nerfed with the delay thing, which shouldn't even happen in pve because we were already under performing.Now we will probably take even more pve nerfs until its like why bother?

I guess today is only the pvp/wvw skill split balance patch.Most of the changes wont be pve changes at all

[Dadnir.5038]

Indeed, the necro (or non meta) hate seem as lively as ever. It feel bad to see the crude reality where even sublimatio take the full brunt of the hate.

The thing is that it's even difficult to blame people for that, core necro have been a bad match for PvE since launch and every e-spec make it better... in WvW where he already had it's niche. When lambda players look at the benchmarks and raid specialist guild's raid comp, they just see that the necromancer is beneath other and that the guild prefer not to use them. They don't understand that the necromancer's issue is not it's dps but it's poor synergy with other professions. This poor synergy is what ultimately make a difference in a highly organized group however, in the current game, in a stitched group (PuG), the necromancer have more than enough self inertia to perform better than meta builds.

Pugs don't understand that the very fact that they are pugs make them non meta and trying to mimick raid guilds and their meta builds just make them less performant than anything. Pugs should just make sure that they've got the boon providers and then take the most reliable dps available (which are, ironically, often the non meta dps spec. For example, 90% of the pug elementalists would have a more reliable dps as tempest than as weaver, but pugs groups push them toward the meta weaver build. It's absurd but it's the reality.)

It will always remind me this guy in a fractal group that was nagging me because I was using a strange non meta dps build on my mesmer. He pissed me off so much that I just left the party and the party just ended up realising the hard way that I was hard carrying them. The time they wasted on their last fractal without me, I spent it doing the 3 fractals dayly with another group.

A meta build don't make someone good, it often give a good foundations but more than often it require a clear understanding on what you have to do and some hard time if the group play is not top notch. 2nd rate dps builds, if they are well thought often perform a lot better than meta builds in live situations. And, it's hard to admit but yes, the necromancer's dps build belong to these 2nd rate dps builds that perform well if not better in sloppy group play.

[Capicorp.1537]

@Agrippa Oculus.3726 said:And again, more proof of the lovely state of the Necro. I REALLY hope things are going to change tonight! We'll see.

Btw, it's an interesting thread, where most of the posters talk about community changes, etc. But in my opinion it's really just one side only that can fix this, and that is ANet themselves. Here you see a lot of examples where arguably one of the very best Necro players out there (Sublimatio) outperforms most of the other DPS classes. But the real problem lies in the sheer difference compared to if he's in fact next to a capable Weaver (i.e.), let alone one of the best Weavers out there. It's a far cry from what a Power Reaper is even capable of! And because you can't see beforehand if someone is capable or not, it's up to ANet to close that ceiling gap, not the community!

• Yes, Necromancers need PvE buffs to pull competitive DPS. I am a necromancer main, and I don't play necromancer in organized PvE because of this.
• All that thread showed was that most PUGS are bad, which is an already known fact.
• If he can play necromancer that well, he can play a higher damage profession just as well and do even higher DPS.
• I used to be resistant to trying new professions in organized PvE, but now I love playing my weaver, mirage, and firebrand. Try out a new profession, and you might surprise yourself.

[Agrippa.1693]

I actually find it really strong of her to not change over profession, in this very harsh anti-Necro (endgame PvE) environment. To be honest, I've already caved in many months ago. My Holo, Spellbreaker, Mirage and DH, they all perform much better than my dust-covering power Reaper! Yea, I consider it still my main, it's the look and feel of the little guy (Asura as well :D)! But it's just not worth the hassle in endgame PvE anymore. And I can't even blame the community either, because it's really just a fact that they're worse than most, if not all other professions, so why would you not ask for a different profession, if you're forming a new Raid/T4 group? You can't really tell beforehand if the player is good or bad, you can tell beforehand if that profession is good or bad (just by looking at benchmarks/statistics/meters/etc.).Again the only way to really fix this issue, lies completely with ANet, not the community!

[Catchyfx.5768]

Necro Is rezbot only xD

[Hindenburg.3415]

@Agrippa Oculus.3726 said:I actually find it really strong of her to not change over profession, in this very harsh anti-Necro (endgame PvE) environment. To be honest, I've already caved in many months ago. My Holo, Spellbreaker, Mirage and DH, they all perform much better than my dust-covering power Reaper! Yea, I consider it still my main, it's the look and feel of the little guy (Asura as well :D)! But it's just not worth the hassle in endgame PvE anymore. And I can't even blame the community either, because it's really just a fact that they're worse than most, if not all other professions, so why would you not ask for a different profession, if you're forming a new Raid/T4 group? You can't really tell beforehand if the player is good or bad, you can tell beforehand if that profession is good or bad (just by looking at benchmarks/statistics/meters/etc.).Again the only way to really fix this issue, lies completely with ANet, not the community!

Bad ? What do you mean ? You can beat any content with necro or group of necros. Sooo whats the difference ? Its not like you will spend an extra hour if you take necro over mesmer or elementalist, right ?

[Dadnir.5038]

@Hindenburg.3415 said:

@"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:I actually find it really strong of her to not change over profession, in this very harsh anti-Necro (endgame PvE) environment. To be honest, I've already caved in many months ago. My Holo, Spellbreaker, Mirage and DH, they all perform much better than my dust-covering power Reaper! Yea, I consider it still my main, it's the look and feel of the little guy (Asura as well :D)! But it's just not worth the hassle in endgame PvE anymore. And I can't even blame the community either, because it's really just a fact that they're worse than most, if not all other professions, so why would you not ask for a different profession, if you're forming a new Raid/T4 group? You

can't

really tell beforehand if the player is good or bad, you

can

tell beforehand if that

profession

is good or bad (just by looking at benchmarks/statistics/meters/etc.).Again the only way to really fix this issue, lies completely with ANet, not the community!

Bad ? What do you mean ? You can beat any content with necro or group of necros. Sooo whats the difference ? Its not like you will spend an extra hour if you take necro over mesmer or elementalist, right ?

"Bad" is a matter of how well it synergyze with other professions. And the necromancer have always been a poor teammate for other professions. It's not a matter of bad feeling or whatever, it's just that it's anchored in the design philosophy. Other professions have a design pilosophy that make them strive to reach the top while the design philosphy of the necromancer is to bring it's opponents beneath him. It could have very well been a successfull design if other professions weren't bringing down their oppoment as a collateral effect of their skills as well.

But the good point is that initially, in the core game, the necromancer had it far worse. What opened the most PvE to the necro up till now are the fact that you now longer skip adds, the fact that you no longer rely on firefields to might stack and the change to how conditions stack. These were 3 shackles that made the necromancer unwanted in the PvE vanilla game. Everything they did to the profession in itself only made it more effective against players and changed nothing for PvE.

It just have poor synergy with other professions in PvE, this is the lame truth that keep the necromancer just a step away from being meta. With scourge anet tried to add a bit of synergy on top of that but objectively they failed to achieve this goal and the necromancer is still stuck to it's only synergetic skill which only really benefit himself: epidemic.

[Agrippa.1693]

@Hindenburg.3415 said:

@Agrippa Oculus.3726 said:I actually find it really strong of her to not change over profession, in this very harsh anti-Necro (endgame PvE) environment. To be honest, I've already caved in many months ago. My Holo, Spellbreaker, Mirage and DH, they all perform much better than my dust-covering power Reaper! Yea, I consider it still my main, it's the look and feel of the little guy (Asura as well :D)! But it's just not worth the hassle in endgame PvE anymore. And I can't even blame the community either, because it's really just a fact that they're worse than most, if not all other professions, so why would you not ask for a different profession, if you're forming a new Raid/T4 group? You

can't

really tell beforehand if the player is good or bad, you

can

tell beforehand if that

profession

is good or bad (just by looking at benchmarks/statistics/meters/etc.).Again the only way to really fix this issue, lies completely with ANet, not the community!

Bad ? What do you mean ? You can beat any content with necro or group of necros. Sooo whats the difference ? Its not like you will spend an extra hour if you take necro over mesmer or elementalist, right ?

Good question(s), would love to answer. You give an example of an hour difference, it's probably never going to be that much of a difference in anything, not even full clears (I presume), but I'd rather like to express gaps relatively. So if you would take fractals and would go the min-maxing route. If for your DPS spots you would take the best capable Power Reapers out there (ppl like Sublimatio, etc.) compared to the best capable weavers out there, it could go up to a 20% to 30% difference even! Imo, that's a lot! If you take one of the worst examples ever, Keep Construct (raid), and you would've taken 6 Power Reapers (or better yet: 6 condi Scourges) instead of 6 Weavers, the difference could well go up to 40% and 50% even! I believe that's a huge difference, in which my only conclusion is that this game (definitely in those cases, but imo the PvE endgame in general) is unbalanced! And again, I'm not talking here about good vs bad players, just what the professions/specializations themselves are capable of!

[Oglaf.1074]

Based on my experience as a somewhat experienced Raider (got full Legendary armour and more than enough LI to cram down the neck of demanding Commanders) the one ace in the hole that Necros have got is Epidemic. Their one saving grace. Which means Condi Scourge...

[Agrippa.1693]

@Oglaf.1074 said:Based on my experience as a somewhat experienced Raider (got full Legendary armour and more than enough LI to cram down the neck of demanding Commanders) the one ace in the hole that Necros have got is Epidemic. Their one saving grace. Which means Condi Scourge...

Yea, there is that one niche, that one trick (pony), that saves us from the brink of pure destruction. Imo, the only reason why you still see Necros (Scourges) in Raids. Which imo makes this profession even more of an unbalanced joke! Hell, even Banner Slave revolves around (at least) the double amount of skills :D (edit: not even talking about the fact that the BS is at least needed everywhere, whereas the Epimancer can only effectively use that one trick of his/hers in only very niche occasions)

[Oglaf.1074]

@Agrippa Oculus.3726 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:Based on my experience as a somewhat experienced Raider (got full Legendary armour and more than enough LI to cram down the neck of demanding Commanders) the one ace in the hole that Necros have got is Epidemic. Their one saving grace. Which means Condi Scourge...

Yea, there is that one niche, that one trick (pony), that saves us from the brink of pure destruction. Imo, the only reason why you still see Necros (Scourges) in Raids. Which imo makes this profession even more of an unbalanced joke! Hell, even Banner Slave revolves around (at least) the double amount of skills :D (edit: not even talking about the fact that the BS is at least needed

everywhere

, whereas the Epimancer can only effectively use that one trick of his/hers in only very niche occasions)

Not to mention that Warriors were finally able to break free from the Bannerboi role a few patches ago and actually has a respectable Power DPS spec that is more than viable in Raids. So while Bannerbois are still needed, you finally see more than one Warrior per Raid group. It is a fantastic time to be a Warrior main.

As such, you Necro mains have my deepest sympathies. :S

[Agrippa.1693]

@Oglaf.1074 said:

@Agrippa Oculus.3726 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:Based on my experience as a somewhat experienced Raider (got full Legendary armour and more than enough LI to cram down the neck of demanding Commanders) the one ace in the hole that Necros have got is Epidemic. Their one saving grace. Which means Condi Scourge...

Yea, there is that one niche, that one trick (pony), that saves us from the brink of pure destruction. Imo, the only reason why you still see Necros (Scourges) in Raids. Which imo makes this profession even more of an unbalanced joke! Hell, even Banner Slave revolves around (at least) the double amount of skills :D (edit: not even talking about the fact that the BS is at least needed

everywhere

, whereas the Epimancer can only effectively use that one trick of his/hers in only very niche occasions)

Not to mention that Warriors were finally able to break free from the Bannerboi role a few patches ago and actually has a respectable Power DPS spec that is more than viable in Raids. So while Bannerbois are still needed, you finally see more than one Warrior per Raid group. It is a fantastic time to be a Warrior main.

As such, you Necro mains have my deepest sympathies. ::scream:

Yea, I started playing Spellbreaker now as well, it even has some features that I so much liked about the Necro: boonhate, and is probably now even better at it as well! Again, I don't care too much that Necro is almost hitting rock bottom, there are so many other interesting classes out there, that I enjoy far more to play these days, and saves you from all the grieving you get as described in the OP.But it's also just a little bit sad that that class that I still consider my main because of all the history that's in it (dating back to the very start of the game and hell, GW1 even), is only collecting dust atm, cause I've mostly grown out of roaming Tyria and grown into the PvE endgame ...

Ah well, I can still use it for PvP and WvW right!? .... right?????

[Despond.2174]

Still waiting for power necro to rise.

[Crinn.7864]

@"Ceriph.3518" said:There's a pretty interesting topic going on Reddit right now ( https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/879gue/as_necro_main_i_compiled_an_album_of_how_im_being/) basically outlining the pure hatred that comes out of playing power reaper/Necro as a whole in end game PVE. I think it's safe to say that Necromancer has been the laughing stock in PVE for far too long, with only a short time pre Death Magic nerf, and the semi recent change to shroud skills on Scourge.

To be fair, Condi necro is actually viable for PvE. I don't understand people's obsession with power reaper having to be "the" spec for PvE. The necro community is the only community that obsesses with a single build type like this.

[Nimon.7840]

@Crinn.7864 said:

@"Ceriph.3518" said:There's a pretty interesting topic going on Reddit right now (

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/879gue/as_necro_main_i_compiled_an_album_of_how_im_being/

) basically outlining the pure hatred that comes out of playing power reaper/Necro as a whole in end game PVE. I think it's safe to say that Necromancer has been the laughing stock in PVE for far too long, with only a short time pre Death Magic nerf, and the semi recent change to shroud skills on Scourge.

To be fair, Condi necro is actually viable for PvE. I don't understand people's obsession with power reaper having to be "the" spec for PvE. The necro community is the only community that obsesses with a single build type like this.

Well. Having any good build for necro that doesnt require necro stacking in groups would be nice. But thats not possible right now, because numbers are too low.Well. Tbh. I play necro almost everywhere. Amd i rather have a good necro in my group, than having a real bad ele

[Agrippa.1693]

@Crinn.7864 said:

@"Ceriph.3518" said:There's a pretty interesting topic going on Reddit right now (

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/879gue/as_necro_main_i_compiled_an_album_of_how_im_being/

) basically outlining the pure hatred that comes out of playing power reaper/Necro as a whole in end game PVE. I think it's safe to say that Necromancer has been the laughing stock in PVE for far too long, with only a short time pre Death Magic nerf, and the semi recent change to shroud skills on Scourge.

To be fair, Condi necro is actually viable for PvE. I don't understand people's obsession with power reaper having to be "the" spec for PvE. The necro community is the only community that obsesses with a single build type like this.

Well, that's the thing. Let's have a look at the 9 classes in the PvE endgame:

• Warrior: mandatory pick in the form of a BS everywhere, but next to that very specific build, now has several other Spellbreaker builds with several different weapon choices, ranging from Greatsword, Axe and Dagger up to Mace even! Which in many if not all occasions are META right now. Next to that they still have a very strong Condi build in the form of the Berserker.
• Mesmer: It's scary how compulsory this class is in the form of the Chrono, we all know that. Not only mandatory everywhere, but mostly even double needed as well! But next to that they come with the highest capable condi dps with their Condi Mirage, and quite recently the Power Chrono set some DPS records as well now! They literally have the most META capable options out there!
• Elementalist: Single most capable DPS dealer out there in the form of the Weaver. Unmatched by any other class by a longshot! Litterally unable to be matched in its capabilities cause of the literal ceiling that's set by this class. If you are a numbers guy, this is your class! Even more so because they also provide the single most healing output possibilities. Impossible to be matched by any other class out there. Ele in statistics: META all the way, even if you're really bad at it, you're still being greeted beforehand (they can't tell your a bad player beforehand) as the saviour every team needs! Next to that, don't forget the Tempest that's still out-dps-ing every other class out there, with the Weaver as its only competition. Enough different builds to go around, again with the capabilities to outperform every other class in the game!
• Ranger: Druid = META, because it's overall utility to the team is unmatched. Mandatory pick everywhere, but mainly on that one specific build only! Stance share Soulbeast is interesting and can dis out some serious condi damage, but still outperformed by Condi Mirage, Condi Firebrand and Condi Berserker but the differences are not that far off! Next to the fact it's sharing stances it makes it a good contender to be META overall.
• Engineer: Holo in general still holds the next best Power DPS build out there (if you scrap Ele completely and if we ignore the newest benchmarks of power Chrono), and has several build variety in order to get to those high numbers, ranging from difficult rotations with a lot of kit swapping to using it's recently buffed sword smashing all the way, with again, small margins in between. Lots of variety there! Also still viable: its kit swapping condi build.
• Guardian: Can perform META numbers in both Condi (Firebrand) and Power (Dragonhunter) DPS and has capabilities to bring a lot of support to the group (with several different setups): maybe not optimal, but near to it!
• Thief: Not really the best choice in endgame PvE, but since the recent buffs, Deadeye build(s) are at least viable now. They still have their Condi Daredevil build, although highly conditional, they can come up with some serious numbers that could right fit in with the META numbers. But again, Thief in general: not in the best spot atm.
• Revenant: Not really META at all, but next best thing in support and its Condi Renegade, although quite conditional can put down some serious near optimal numbers on big hitboxes. Overall, they're not in the best place in the PvE endgame atm!
• Necro: Let me be completely honest here and start out by saying that one skill used in very niche occasions is able to break all records when used in conjunction with other Necros: Epidemic in combination with the technique: Epi-bounce. This is only really optimal in some certain Raid fights where there are adds surrounding the boss that don't die too quickly. And even in these niche settings they're sometimes still outperformed by Weavers!But, if you ignore that one skill altogether: you're only left with some really subpar builds that are only viable at best! Our TOP-dps build: Condi Scourge is at least doing 10% to 15% worse DPS than all the other classes top-DPS builds out there, not to mention the huge difference if you compare it with the capabilities of a Weaver. Reaper still has it's best build (though highly conditional on Ice field placement) in Condi as well: Still less than Condi Scourge though. Power Reaper might be so called viable but is even beneath that, and is therefore one of the if not the worst DPS choice you can come with. Compared to all these other classes mentioned above (and definitely the top ones) you're just the worst of the worst! But that's DPS, right? What about support?Well, our support Scourge is ok-ish at best but is mainly outperformed by ... all other support options: be it Chrono, be it Druid, be it Warrior, be it Renegade, be it Ele, be it Guardian even! All for the fact that they are more useful to the team! Except... ressing ... that's what we're good at .... the NECRO ... good at ressing ... very thematic ???????

[BestWurstinTown.8521]

@Agrippa Oculus.3726 said:

• Necro: Let me be completely honest here and start out by saying that one skill used in very niche occasions is able to break all records when used in conjunction with other Necros: Epidemic in combination with the technique: Epi-bounce. This is only really optimal in some certain Raid fights where there are adds surrounding the boss that don't die too quickly. And even in these niche settings they're sometimes still outperformed by Weavers!But, if you ignore that one skill altogether: you're only left with some really subpar builds that are only viable at best! Our TOP-dps build: Condi Scourge is at least doing 10% to 15% worse DPS than all the other classes top-DPS builds out there, not to mention the huge difference if you compare it with the capabilities of a Weaver. Reaper still has it's best build (though highly conditional on Ice field placement) in Condi as well: Still less than Condi Scourge though. Power Reaper might be so called viable but is even beneath that, and is therefore one of the if not the worst DPS choice you can come with. Compared to all these other classes mentioned above (and definitely the top ones) you're just the worst of the worst! But that's DPS, right? What about support?Well, our support Scourge is ok-ish at best but is mainly outperformed by ... all other support options: be it Chrono, be it Druid, be it Warrior, be it Renegade, be it Ele, be it Guardian even! All for the fact that they are more useful to the team! Except... ressing ... that's what we're good at .... the NECRO ... good at ressing ... very thematic ???????

And yet if you take a look at fractal numbers, power reaper often scores better than almost all the other power builds (barring weaver and chrono but those are just overtuned).

Is it the best dps out there ? No ofc notIs it enough dps to beat content comfortably ? YesIs it a rather forgiving spec ? Yes

I'm not saying balance is ok atm (because it reaaaally isnt seeing how some professions are mandatory for basically all content) but a person that knows the encounters and the spec will do fine regardless of profession. Could that person do more dps as weaver ? Probably yes but weaver is not easy to pull off and it is so overtuned dps wise that even dealing 10k dps less is still enough to do endgame content.My hope is that the outliers get toned down to some extent (PvE speaking, I couldn't care less about PvP) while dead talents and skills get improved across the board. Most professions only need a couple of QoL changes and a slight dps buff and the playing field would be equal. Sure weaver would still be the best dps out there but that's just the nature of a glass cannon full dps profession. What would weaver do if not most dmg because I have yet to see someone use ele as support.

[Agrippa.1693]

@BestWurstinTown.8521 said:And yet if you take a look at fractal numbers, power reaper often scores better than almost all the other power builds (barring weaver and chrono but those are just overtuned).Then you haven't played Spellbreaker, Dragonhunter and Holo yet, they're all as easy or even easier to play (except for the Rifle-kit variant (Holo), but you can swap to the much easier Sword-no-kit variant which almost reaches the same numbers), and far better performing than the Power Reaper will ever be able to. And if you don't believe it, try it! I have, in raids, T4 fractals, CM's .... and the numbers just don't lie!!! (oops, almost forgot Staff Daredevil. Hell, even they can dis out higher numbers than the Power Reaper with a very forgiving (read: evading) rotation)

@BestWurstinTown.8521 said:Is it a rather forgiving spec ? YesNo! Why does everyone always say that Reaper is forgiving. Yea maybe in PvE map roaming or low level PvE in general. But think of this ... how much potential damage can you block with that one defensive mechanism that we have: Shroud! Which imo is not even suppose to be a defensive mechanism at all, but hey let's go with it .... How much damage? .... Now next question, how much potential damage can a single Aegis block? Or a Full Counter (SPB)? Or evades, evades, evades? Yes indeed, infinite!Next: yes we have the highest health pool (together with Warrior btw, but hey ... ), which is mainly only interesting to have against conditions and there we go again: low level encounters, which don't hit that hard! Not really PvE endgame, don't you think? The 3 (4) professions I mentioned above all have medium/heavy armor, which is far more useful to have in the endgame than that bigger health pool!

Imo, there is only one real conclusion regarding PvE endgame, and that's that the Necro (and definitely Reaper) is NOT in a good spot right now.

[ZDragon.3046]

@"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:No! Why does everyone always say that Reaper is forgiving. Yea maybe in PvE map roaming or low level PvE in general. But think of this ... how much potential damage can you block with that one defensive mechanism that we have: Shroud! Which imo is not even suppose to be a defensive mechanism at all, but hey let's go with it .... How much damage? .... Now next question, how much potential damage can a single Aegis block? Or a Full Counter (SPB)? Or evades, evades, evades? Yes indeed, infinite!Next: yes we have the highest health pool (together with Warrior btw, but hey ... ), which is mainly only interesting to have against conditions and there we go again: low level encounters, which don't hit that hard! Not really PvE endgame, don't you think? The 3 (4) professions I mentioned above all have medium/heavy armor, which is far more useful to have in the endgame than that bigger health pool!

Imo, there is only one real conclusion regarding PvE endgame, and that's that the Necro (and definitely Reaper) is NOT in a good spot right now.

^this big right here ideally mostly the bit about it being forgiving.In pvp necro is anything but forgiving and its high pve end game is crap according to everyone i dont see how thats forgiving. You invest all this time in necro and get to the end game and struggle due to community not wanting to take you because Necro at best an offensive supporter and very selfish in any other forms of standard support while lacking the numbers to deal the same potential damage as other professions.

People dont need offensive support in pve right now they need boon sustain support, raw dps modifier support, and healing, even barrier before healing. They dont care very much for wells, vampiric leeching, and boon rending pve foes is not that big of a deal either.

i think reaper is decent but its the only reason that necro is decent in a sense necro is sitting in a close spot with rev where alot of its core stuff is like "What am i suppose to do with this?"But slap on an elite spec and necro becomes dependent upon that elite spec but allows it to work to some degree.

I wish core was strong af on necro i really do cause i like how core plays but being so slow with the lack of damage and still getting killed just as fast as any other spec is not ideal.

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@"Despond.2174" said:Still waiting for power necro to rise.