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Immediate Impressions Tier Lists?


bLind.6278
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Patch day always leads to some pretty wild assumptions on where classes stand, so let's hear them out and see how they compare in a week or two.

S TIER

Mesmer - No real change here. The nerfs they got weren't significant, and the EM nerf didn't address the issue with the skill whatsoever. They'll remain the absolute key to most teams.Necro - Scourge is very close to being A Tier instead of S Tier, but this patch was virtually one huge buff for the class. Removing the Obstruction nonsense is a MASSIVE buff to Scourge. The moderate cooldown increase to F4/F5 won't do much in the long run, I don't think.

A TIER

Guardian - Magi nerfs, but good damage buffs. Should be a good trade-off and they'll still be decent support for condi clear/light heal spam. Expect to see them coupled with Necro's pretty often, still.Ranger - Sustain nerfs were absolutely needed, and I'm pretty sure they lost some damage on staff as well. They're solidly A Tier, now. This is probably the one class that could go way up or way down depending on how Rangers adapt.Thief - Was thief even really changed much? Looks like they'll still be a class that can either single-handedly win or lose games for a lot of players.

B TIER

Engineer - Could potentially shift into A Tier, but the class doesn't feel like it does any damage any more. Nerfs were necessary, but the class just doesn't seem to have a place right now.Elementalist - Could argue for C Tier, but I don't know enough about the class to really say for sure. They were in a pretty dire spot before the patch, we'll see if they're really any better after it.Warrior - Definitely wont have a spot in the meta with a Spellbreaker build after Dagger nerfs, but the innate tankiness of the class still remains. Good warriors will still make it work and will do amazing things. Mediocre warriors will struggle to impact games in any meaningful way. The way this class is built right now is set up for +1/roaming/decapping, and there are two classes that do it FAR better currently. You'll see a lot of warriors camping points and holding them forever.

D TIER

Revenant - Sorry guys. No idea how this class was completely overlooked this patch. I'm pretty sure Anet has no idea how to approach balancing Rev.

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Some people are holding the argument that the Bug fixes to Scrapper will be more than enough for take Scrapper back to the map, if so, then it has potential as an A tier pick, it would be a natural counter to Scourge.... or that's what i think theorically, only time and the next season will tell.

Personally i am in the side that thinks these Bug Fixes are overrated and they will not do anything to bring his viability back as some people are stating.

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Thief gets nerfed by 15% on Dagger Auto, Sword Auto, Larcenous Strike and S/D Core got its utility nerfed accross the board."I don't feel Thief was changed at all".

Warrior get a 15% damage nerf on Dagger"Omg class is unplayable unless you're a god"

I smell bias.

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@"Griever.8150" said:Thief gets nerfed by 15% on Dagger Auto, Sword Auto, Larcenous Strike and S/D Core got its utility nerfed accross the board."I don't feel Thief was changed at all".

Warrior get a 15% damage nerf on Dagger"Omg class is unplayable unless you're a god"

I smell bias.

Warrior can be S Tier by itself but the role it plays in games isn't well defined. It's a shitty teamfighter, and possibly won't be as durable in the off-point 1v2's that earned it a place otherwise.

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@"Griever.8150" said:Thief gets nerfed by 15% on Dagger Auto, Sword Auto, Larcenous Strike and S/D Core got its utility nerfed accross the board."I don't feel Thief was changed at all".

Warrior get a 15% damage nerf on Dagger"Omg class is unplayable unless you're a god"

I smell bias.

Nerf on all 3 dagger aaNerf on dagger 2Nerf on dagger 3Nerf on daggwr f1Nerf on full counterNerf on break enchantmentsNerf on featherfoot graceNerf on defense GM trait / passive stabNerf on passive endure pain

In fact, every key skill from the spellbreaker weapon skills and utilities + the passives which were rly important for war got nerfed.

Its not "only" the aa.

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@bLind.6278 said:Patch day always leads to some pretty wild assumptions on where classes stand, so let's hear them out and see how they compare in a week or two.

S TIER

Mesmer - No real change here. The nerfs they got weren't significant, and the EM nerf didn't address the issue with the skill whatsoever. They'll remain the absolute key to most teams.Necro - Scourge is very close to being A Tier instead of S Tier, but this patch was virtually one huge buff for the class. Removing the Obstruction nonsense is a MASSIVE buff to Scourge. The moderate cooldown increase to F4/F5 won't do much in the long run, I don't think.

A TIER

Guardian - Magi nerfs, but good damage buffs. Should be a good trade-off and they'll still be decent support for condi clear/light heal spam. Expect to see them coupled with Necro's pretty often, still.Ranger - Sustain nerfs were absolutely needed, and I'm pretty sure they lost some damage on staff as well. They're solidly A Tier, now. This is probably the one class that could go way up or way down depending on how Rangers adapt.Thief - Was thief even really changed much? Looks like they'll still be a class that can either single-handedly win or lose games for a lot of players.

B TIER

Engineer - Could potentially shift into A Tier, but the class doesn't feel like it does any damage any more. Nerfs were necessary, but the class just doesn't seem to have a place right now.Elementalist - Could argue for C Tier, but I don't know enough about the class to really say for sure. They were in a pretty dire spot before the patch, we'll see if they're really any better after it.Warrior - Definitely wont have a spot in the meta with a Spellbreaker build after Dagger nerfs, but the innate tankiness of the class still remains. Good warriors will still make it work and will do amazing things. Mediocre warriors will struggle to impact games in any meaningful way. The way this class is built right now is set up for +1/roaming/decapping, and there are two classes that do it FAR better currently. You'll see a lot of warriors camping points and holding them forever.

D TIER

Revenant - Sorry guys. No idea how this class was completely overlooked this patch. I'm pretty sure Anet has no idea how to approach balancing Rev.

Rev is def not D tier.

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@Toron.4856 said:

@bLind.6278 said:Patch day always leads to some pretty wild assumptions on where classes stand, so let's hear them out and see how they compare in a week or two.

S TIER

Mesmer
- No real change here. The nerfs they got weren't significant, and the EM nerf didn't address the issue with the skill whatsoever. They'll remain the absolute key to most teams.
Necro
- Scourge is very close to being A Tier instead of S Tier, but this patch was virtually one huge buff for the class. Removing the Obstruction nonsense is a MASSIVE buff to Scourge. The moderate cooldown increase to F4/F5 won't do much in the long run, I don't think.

A TIER

Guardian
- Magi nerfs, but good damage buffs. Should be a good trade-off and they'll still be decent support for condi clear/light heal spam. Expect to see them coupled with Necro's pretty often, still.
Ranger
- Sustain nerfs were absolutely needed, and I'm pretty sure they lost some damage on staff as well. They're solidly A Tier, now. This is probably the one class that could go way up or way down depending on how Rangers adapt.
Thief
- Was thief even really changed much? Looks like they'll still be a class that can either single-handedly win or lose games for a lot of players.

B TIER

Engineer
- Could potentially shift into A Tier, but the class doesn't feel like it does any damage any more. Nerfs were necessary, but the class just doesn't seem to have a place right now.
Elementalist
- Could argue for C Tier, but I don't know enough about the class to really say for sure. They were in a pretty dire spot before the patch, we'll see if they're really any better after it.
Warrior
- Definitely wont have a spot in the meta with a Spellbreaker build after Dagger nerfs, but the innate tankiness of the class still remains. Good warriors will still make it work and will do amazing things. Mediocre warriors will struggle to impact games in any meaningful way. The way this class is built right now is set up for +1/roaming/decapping, and there are two classes that do it FAR better currently. You'll see a lot of warriors camping points and holding them forever.

D TIER

Revenant
- Sorry guys. No idea how this class was completely overlooked this patch. I'm pretty sure Anet has no idea how to approach balancing Rev.

Rev is def not D tier.

Yeah, it's F tier.

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@"Griever.8150" said:Thief gets nerfed by 15% on Dagger Auto, Sword Auto, Larcenous Strike and S/D Core got its utility nerfed accross the board."I don't feel Thief was changed at all".

Warrior get a 15% damage nerf on Dagger"Omg class is unplayable unless you're a god"

I smell bias.

Lol, I was going to say this. So much freaking unjustified thief hate it's gone beyond hope. Don't forget the damage on interrupt trait was nerfed for dp thief as well, just in case someone was still able to be useful as a thief by going back to dp

I've been playing mmos my entire life and I've literally never seen this much unjustified overestimating of a class, not even close in all that time.

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@"bLind.6278" said:

A TIER

Guardian - Magi nerfs, but good damage buffs. Should be a good trade-off and they'll still be decent support for condi clear/light heal spam. Expect to see them coupled with Necro's pretty often, still.

Good damage buffs? Which ones you talking about lol

Guardian

Tome of Justice: Fixed a bug that prevented the Tome of Justice passive effect from being applied immediately when entering PvP maps.Ashes of the Just: Fixed a bug that prevented the overhead effects from displaying when granting this effect to yourself or allies.Weighty Terms: Fixed a display bug in which this trait did not affect the final charge of Mantra of Lore.Absolute Resolution: Fixed a bug that prevented the passive effects from Tome of Resolve and Tome of Courage from being reapplied when equipping or unequipping this trait.Indomitable Courage: Fixed a bug that prevented the passive effects from Tome of Resolve and Tome of Courage from being reapplied when equipping or unequipping this trait.Tome of Resolve:    Epilogue: Eternal Oasis: Reduced the bonus-heal effectiveness from 33% to 20% in PvP and WvW.    Chapter 2: Radiant Recovery: Reduced the healing power coefficient per condition cleansed by 35% in PvP and WvW.    Chapter 1: Desert Bloom: Reduced healing by 17% in PvP and WvW.Signet of Resolve: Reduced the cooldown from 35 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW.Leap of Faith: Increased damage by 14% in PvP and WvW.Signet of Mercy: Reduced the cooldown from 150 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP and WvW.Sword of Justice: Reduced the ammo-recharge time from 25 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP and WvW.Bow of Truth: Reduced the ammo-recharge time from 30 seconds to 25 seconds in PvP and WvW.Hammer of Wisdom: Reduced the ammo-recharge time from 30 seconds to 25 seconds in PvP and WvW."Feel My Wrath!": Reduced the cooldown from 45 seconds to 35 seconds in PvP and WvW.Virtuous Solace: Increased the cooldown from 75 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP only.Hunter's Determination: Increased the cooldown from 75 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP only.Zealous Blade: Increased the bonus damage from 5% to 10% in PvP and WvW.

You talking about the buff on Greatsword 3 or the one from the trait that nobody uses? lol I dont play sPvP been a while, but Zeal guardian with spirit weapons become a thing lol, thats the only way I can see where you coming from with the "but good damage buffs".

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@Kageseigi.2150 said:Alas, the Thief is considered A-class because it can run to an empty point faster than most, and it can actually help to kill an outnumbered opponent.

I wonder if it will still be considered A-class when it carries Shortbow/Shortbow for Quick Pockets?

I keep forgetting that 90% of the playerbase thinks that conquest is just a DM in the middle of the map until one team accidentally wins.

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@bLind.6278 said:

@Kageseigi.2150 said:Alas, the Thief is considered A-class because it can run to an empty point faster than most, and it can actually help to kill an outnumbered opponent.

I wonder if it will still be considered A-class when it carries Shortbow/Shortbow for Quick Pockets?

I keep forgetting that 90% of the playerbase thinks that conquest is just a DM in the middle of the map until one team accidentally wins.

Nah, I'd say a large portion of conquest matches end up the way they do because the lack of communication. Its a esports type mode pushed on a bunch of randoms, who are expected to somehow coordinate and communicate. Sometimes you get players who do not even speak English.

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@Aza.2105 said:

@Kageseigi.2150 said:Alas, the Thief is considered A-class because it can run to an empty point faster than most, and it can actually help to kill an outnumbered opponent.

I wonder if it will still be considered A-class when it carries Shortbow/Shortbow for Quick Pockets?

I keep forgetting that 90% of the playerbase thinks that conquest is just a DM in the middle of the map until one team accidentally wins.

Nah, I'd say a large portion of conquest matches end up the way they do because the lack of communication. Its a esports type mode pushed on a bunch of randoms, who are expected to somehow coordinate and communicate. Sometimes you get players who do not even speak English.

Having a win condition and clear objectives of how to reach that doesn't make it e-sports type mode. What I'm referring to is the playerbase at large failing the most rudimentary levels of gameplay. These are the same people who come to the forums complaining about their 10 game losing streak when all they do is run to mid point 1v4 over and over while proclaiming to the world about their shit teammates.

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@"bLind.6278" said:I keep forgetting that 90% of the playerbase thinks that conquest is just a DM in the middle of the map until one team accidentally wins.

Conquest is not Team Deathmatch.However, it is an actual combat game.

The point being is the Thief can run around naked and decap with nothing but Shortbow #5. As long as it can do that, it will be considered "A-class" by many.If a Ranger's pet could decap, there'd be no reason for the Thief to even exist in Conquest.

The Thief is the waterboy of Conquest. Without the waterboy, even a championship team may dehydrate and lose... but nobody would consider the waterboy as a championship athlete.

Or, in Harry Potter terms, the Thief is a Seeker with no Golden Snitch to be found. So he has nothing to do but pretend he's a Beater, trying to bat away Bludgers, which usually ends with him getting knocked off his broom.

@"Aza.2105" said:Nah, I'd say a large portion of conquest matches end up the way they do because the lack of communication. Its a esports type mode pushed on a bunch of randoms, who are expected to somehow coordinate and communicate. Sometimes you get players who do not even speak English.

This is the truth. With no communication, there is no dependable rotation or coordination. That means that Conquest becomes even more of a combat-oriented game for the Thief. Usually ending up in a dilemma such having to choose between a 1v1 duel or a 4v4 AoE-fest. And those are the least problematic decisions to make.

And to make it worse, the ones who do "communicate" the most are usually the ones complaining that everything is going wrong and blaming everyone else.

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