Anet and revenant

[Zyllias.9538]

Do Anet test revenant on noob builds classes to decide what the best thing to be done? Do we have to be fucking elites to stand against a "good" war or mesmer? that being said they are carried by their build and us not, we are meats and not even meatshields able. Glint Glint Glint, i'm not for the forced choice of win Anet, do Something. I wont beg you, you proved enough the little care about this class, you play your glint herald powerbuild with staff like a master, i don't, that make no other choice, a very poor choice. Also, i'm not counting on rankssides because its totally biased.

Edit, this is simply disgusting i'm not a boxing puppet, this game is becoming disgusting that's all. I never had that in World of Warcraft. It's even worse. There's no skill but antigaming in this game, PvP Wise.

You want me to antigame you i headshot you with a gun, or i just quit and you never find me.

[Kenshu.3825]

Totally agree. For the first time ever I feel like Anet is forcing me to play another char. Since the Rev has came out that is the only class I play. Now when I choose hammer I am already nerfing myself from the start cause it is not a main weapon for solo roam only pretty decent for raids. Since u just nerfed the ONLY FUCKING decent dmg I can even bring the a raid with the hammer I now have nothing to bring to the table. GG anet on not thinking things through at all. So far I am sure that I will be done with this game.... Thank u anet for making me not this game anymore.

[Obtena.7952]

@"Zyllias.9538" said:Do we have to be kitten elites to stand against a "good" war or mesmer?

To be honest, yes. I think you do need to be at the top of the class to take Revenant into top tier levels of the game. I don't see a problem with that either; it would be stupid for Anet not to offer players classes with varying difficulty.

[Buran.3796]

@Obtena.7952 said:

To be honest, yes. I think you do need to be at the top of the class to take Revenant into top tier levels of the game. I don't see a problem with that either; it would be stupid for Anet not to offer players classes with varying difficulty.

Didn't saw all the tournaments but... Was a single team with a Rev in their roster able to win the Monthly AT?

[ScottBroChill.3254]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Zyllias.9538" said:Do we have to be kitten elites to stand against a "good" war or mesmer?

To be honest, yes. I think you do need to be at the top of the class to take Revenant into top tier levels of the game. I don't see a problem with that either; it would be stupid for Anet not to offer players classes with varying difficulty.

I don't mind varying difficulties of classes, but I am interested in the reasons why they are difficult. In revs case, it is difficult because it offers less, doesn't have the same damage potentials of other classes, and is generally weaker. It's not that it is mechanically hard to pull of combos or things like that, like staff ele in raids. So the reasons of why revenant is difficult to play don't justify it as being balanced.

[ArthurDent.9538]

@Buran.3796 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

To be honest, yes. I think you do need to be at the top of the class to take Revenant into top tier levels of the game. I don't see a problem with that either; it would be stupid for Anet not to offer players classes with varying difficulty.

Didn't saw all the tournaments but... Was a single team with a Rev in their roster able to win the Monthly AT?

Pre pof yes, post pof I think the farthest the class has made it in either region is the quarter finals.

[Obtena.7952]

@ScottBroChill.3254 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Zyllias.9538" said:Do we have to be kitten elites to stand against a "good" war or mesmer?

To be honest, yes. I think you do need to be at the top of the class to take Revenant into top tier levels of the game. I don't see a problem with that either; it would be stupid for Anet not to offer players classes with varying difficulty.

I don't mind varying difficulties of classes, but I am interested in the reasons why they are difficult. In revs case, it is difficult because it offers less, doesn't have the same damage potentials of other classes, and is generally weaker. It's not that it is mechanically hard to pull of combos or things like that, like staff ele in raids. So the reasons of why revenant is difficult to play don't justify it as being balanced.

True, and I wouldn't expect it to because frankly, I don't think Anet aims to balance classes for performance. I don't know what makes people think they do.

[Zyllias.9538]

@ScottBroChill.3254 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Zyllias.9538" said:Do we have to be kitten elites to stand against a "good" war or mesmer?

To be honest, yes. I think you do need to be at the top of the class to take Revenant into top tier levels of the game. I don't see a problem with that either; it would be stupid for Anet not to offer players classes with varying difficulty.

I don't mind varying difficulties of classes, but I am interested in the reasons why they are difficult. In revs case, it is difficult because it offers less, doesn't have the same damage potentials of other classes, and is generally weaker. It's not that it is mechanically hard to pull of combos or things like that, like staff ele in raids. So the reasons of why revenant is difficult to play don't justify it as being balanced.

Yes, and i think revenant would need slightly little less cooldown on weapons skills (and weapon swap maybe, but there is a rune for that), a higher passive defense or higher damages to balance the challenge, noticing the difficulty to hit the targets sometimes, from personal experience, that it.

[Zyllias.9538]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@ScottBroChill.3254 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Zyllias.9538" said:Do we have to be kitten elites to stand against a "good" war or mesmer?

To be honest, yes. I think you do need to be at the top of the class to take Revenant into top tier levels of the game. I don't see a problem with that either; it would be stupid for Anet not to offer players classes with varying difficulty.

I don't mind varying difficulties of classes, but I am interested in the reasons why they are difficult. In revs case, it is difficult because it offers less, doesn't have the same damage potentials of other classes, and is generally weaker. It's not that it is mechanically hard to pull of combos or things like that, like staff ele in raids. So the reasons of why revenant is difficult to play don't justify it as being balanced.

True, and I wouldn't expect it to because frankly, I don't think Anet aims to balance classes for performance. I don't know what makes people think they do.

yes i know this, but i Wonder, maybe because more of other classes i believe, and from what i have noticed, are more op. Really i think revenant is a well done class, just much weaker than other classes well built and played.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

@Kenshu.3825 said:Totally agree. For the first time ever I feel like Anet is forcing me to play another char. Since the Rev has came out that is the only class I play. Now when I choose hammer I am already nerfing myself from the start cause it is not a main weapon for solo roam only pretty decent for raids. Since u just nerfed the ONLY kitten decent dmg I can even bring the a raid with the hammer I now have nothing to bring to the table. GG anet on not thinking things through at all. So far I am sure that I will be done with this game.... Thank u anet for making me not this game anymore.

...

yes, it needs to be that big. Hammer was nerfed only in WvW. Unless they moved raids to that game mode i have no idea what you're on about...

[Buran.3796]

@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

@"Kenshu.3825" said:Totally agree. For the first time ever I feel like Anet is forcing me to play another char. Since the Rev has came out that is the only class I play. Now when I choose hammer I am already nerfing myself from the start cause it is not a main weapon for solo roam only pretty decent for raids. Since u just nerfed the ONLY kitten decent dmg I can even bring the a raid with the hammer I now have nothing to bring to the table. GG anet on not thinking things through at all. So far I am sure that I will be done with this game.... Thank u anet for making me not this game anymore.

...

yes, it needs to be that big. Hammer was nerfed

only

in WvW. Unless they moved raids to that game mode i have no idea what you're on about...

He's talking about WvW raids (the term was used in that gamemode since its release, way before HoT introduced the "10 players dungeons"). And He's right: without the ranged area damage, Revs had no role in WvW raids (the same happens with Thieves, albeit at least they are strong roamers).

[Loboling.5293]

I have to say, in terms of viability. I don't think rev is unplayable. I hear a lot of rage here lately, but I think it's overblown.

The issues with the Rev come from it being an unfinished class. Its lack of options in underwater combat. Zero utility choices and even though they have way fewer options than other professions, they aren't being balanced accordingly. (It should be much faster to address their issues since it's less complex to tackle)

However, I do find the Revenant is well balanced in PvP. I think mesmers are op, and scourge has too much power too, but rev is where most professions should be balanced around.

I don't want to see huge buffs that will just lead to massive nerfs. No matter what, I'm totally into the Rev theme. Its my main for a long time, and I tried to quit it a few times, but it's just so damn fun. Herald is great in PvP and renegade is fringe and still needs work.

All I want for rev are a couple extra core weapons and some baseline utilities we can swap in. (And other legends available underwater)

[Obtena.7952]

@Zyllias.9538 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@ScottBroChill.3254 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Zyllias.9538 said:Do we have to be kitten elites to stand against a "good" war or mesmer?

To be honest, yes. I think you do need to be at the top of the class to take Revenant into top tier levels of the game. I don't see a problem with that either; it would be stupid for Anet not to offer players classes with varying difficulty.

I don't mind varying difficulties of classes, but I am interested in the reasons why they are difficult. In revs case, it is difficult because it offers less, doesn't have the same damage potentials of other classes, and is generally weaker. It's not that it is mechanically hard to pull of combos or things like that, like staff ele in raids. So the reasons of why revenant is difficult to play don't justify it as being balanced.

True, and I wouldn't expect it to because frankly, I don't think Anet aims to balance classes for performance. I don't know what makes people think they do.

yes i know this, but i Wonder, maybe because more of other classes i believe, and from what i have noticed, are more op. Really i think revenant is a well done class, just much weaker than other classes well built and played.

I guess that depends on the content you're doing and how well you play those classes. For example, while some people might abhor it, Herald provides some of the highest performance as a passive build can achieve. Being 'OP' is simply a narrow view taken in context of very specific scenarios/content.

While people might argue that balance is lacking (and I wouldn't disagree with that), I don't think that's what Anet is actually targeting when they provide a class and it's toolset in the first place. Revenant has a very abstract concept and to be honest, a very incomplete feel to it, and that's reasonable, considering it's 2 years younger every other class. Still, it does provide a number of specific things for people looking for them and Anet does continue to make changes to it, eventually coming to a more polished end.

[Belishine.7493]

Nicely stated Obtena. i think the rev is still lacking in a few area that should be adressed sooner then later. as for a few exsamples i do not get why power rev is in a state were it is meta for raiding and for pve content. i do see that for power rev will need a small boost in dps for pve but is very balanced at the moment. i hop that we can get some changes to functionality for rev so its mutch smother for right now it still feels clunky in playstyle. but this is just what i see from playing but i do like the rev and am thinking of haveing it as a main but its going to need some work from anet.

[schmots.6803]

Revenant doesn't have the mindless uber survivability of others.. I charge at Champs solo on my Soulbeast and have an 85% or greater chance of taking them down. I wouldn't do that on my revenant, he just can't do it. I don't mind that per say. I do like that revenant adds a bit of challenge. I am not 100% sure I will survive every encounter. I have to work at it. Think about my actions. I don't think that makes it "ignored", just different.

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

I'd be glad if they undid all changes up to and including removing Equilibrium.

[Obtena.7952]

@"schmots.6803" said:Revenant doesn't have the mindless uber survivability of others.. I charge at Champs solo on my Soulbeast and have an 85% or greater chance of taking them down. I wouldn't do that on my revenant, he just can't do it. I don't mind that per say. I do like that revenant adds a bit of challenge. I am not 100% sure I will survive every encounter. I have to work at it. Think about my actions. I don't think that makes it "ignored", just different.

I think you experience demonstrates perfectly what Revenant brings to this game. I too find that Rev is a class where I have to work to ensure my survival, not just punch #6 at the right time. It's the fun part of the class for me and i suspect, that's the appeal (and the dislike) of the class for others. Yes, you have to work much more to get the same level of performance from Rev as some other classes ... I believe that's intended.

[otto.5684]

@"schmots.6803" said:Revenant doesn't have the mindless uber survivability of others.. I charge at Champs solo on my Soulbeast and have an 85% or greater chance of taking them down. I wouldn't do that on my revenant, he just can't do it. I don't mind that per say. I do like that revenant adds a bit of challenge. I am not 100% sure I will survive every encounter. I have to work at it. Think about my actions. I don't think that makes it "ignored", just different.

This means.. nothing. Who cares about solo PvE potential.

[Clownmug.8357]

I see a lot of people saying rev is supposed to be challenging by design. Where did that idea come from? I don't see any indication of that on the official website or wiki, and I don't remember anything like that mentioned in promos for HoT.

[Obtena.7952]

The idea comes from playing in the game. You post almost indicates you need Anet to confirm it so you don't believe they are incompetent at balancing the game.

@otto.5684 said:

@"schmots.6803" said:Revenant doesn't have the mindless uber survivability of others.. I charge at Champs solo on my Soulbeast and have an 85% or greater chance of taking them down. I wouldn't do that on my revenant, he just can't do it. I don't mind that per say. I do like that revenant adds a bit of challenge. I am not 100% sure I will survive every encounter. I have to work at it. Think about my actions. I don't think that makes it "ignored", just different.

This means.. nothing. Who cares about solo PvE potential.

People that want to do solo things in PVE ... I mean, people could say the same thing about PvP or WvW potential too. Who cares? Well, clearly the people that play it in those game modes.

[Clownmug.8357]

Yeah it seems improper balance is most likely, don't need confirmation of that. I'm just interested in seeing what made people think they intentionally designed rev to be difficult but decided not to tell anybody.

[Obtena.7952]

Well, I'm not sure I would call it a decision they didn't tell people; Anet has never told players the characteristics that define the playstyle of any class that GW2. To be fair, that's part of the appeal of an MMO ... discovery of things you like to do, how you like to play, etc... if you don't like a class, it's pretty easy to drop it and try something else. In all honesty, every class offers different playstyles and players need to test the waters for all of them if they are searching for the one they like best.

[Clownmug.8357]

@"Obtena.7952" said:Well, I'm not sure I would call it a decision they didn't tell people; Anet has never told players the characteristics that define the playstyle of any class that GW2. To be fair, that's part of the appeal of an MMO ... discovery of things you like to do, how you like to play, etc... if you don't like a class, it's pretty easy to drop it and try something else. In all honesty, every class offers different playstyles and players need to test the waters for all of them if they are searching for the one they like best.

They did tell players long ago.

[ScottBroChill.3254]

@Clownmug.8357 said:

@"Obtena.7952" said:Well, I'm not sure I would call it a decision they didn't tell people;

Anet has never told players the characteristics that define the playstyle of any class

that GW2. To be fair, that's part of the appeal of an MMO ... discovery of things you like to do, how you like to play, etc... if you don't like a class, it's pretty easy to drop it and try something else. In all honesty, every class offers different playstyles and players need to test the waters for all of them if they are searching for the one they like best.

They did tell players long ago.

yeah, they threw around the words "purity of purpose" and rev has none lol

[Obtena.7952]

@Clownmug.8357 said:

@"Obtena.7952" said:Well, I'm not sure I would call it a decision they didn't tell people;

Anet has never told players the characteristics that define the playstyle of any class

that GW2. To be fair, that's part of the appeal of an MMO ... discovery of things you like to do, how you like to play, etc... if you don't like a class, it's pretty easy to drop it and try something else. In all honesty, every class offers different playstyles and players need to test the waters for all of them if they are searching for the one they like best.

They did tell players long ago.

Oh, this is awesome, though I would have wished it was more recent and written. Honestly, I can't be bothered to watch that video to pick out the purity of purpose for Revenant ... any chance you watched it and what time they start talking about it? Thanks BTW, I didn't know they actually defined the purity of purpose for the classes in that video.

EDIT: I've skipped through trying to find the Revenant part, ... I don't think they covered Revenant. They do well explaining the whys of classes have and have not, but I'm not sure that's what I'm referring to. It seems to me they are talking more about how their restrictions they place on classes and their tools affect tactics they use for PVP/WVW. I'm really talking about what I believe people call playstyle. For example, statements like "play class X if you like to facetank with reactive heals" or "play class Y if you like ripping through a complicated damage rotation".

While I think Anet could help themselves out a bit to explain the kinds of players each class would appeal to, I can also see they don't need to, as it usually leads to people throwing back in their face at some point to justify some 'fix'. Really, Revenant is the kind of class I recommend to people seeking the duality of a challenge in difficult and busy class, ultimately rewarded with extra skills and a deep class knowledge that provides a range of build variety and consistency of performance over those builds .... OR ... a very passive, almost comically simple approach with Herald. It's a transition class in a sense. You go from what I consider super easy, scrub mode to something that rewards the highest levels of play.