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Wonder why some people never WVW


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WvW as a mode is sometimes difficult to get into.If you're a newer player and not affiliated with a WvW guild, you may be temped just to jump in. Unfortunately there are quite a few things which can happen which leave a bad taste in your mouth and discourage you from coming back.

1- you get to borderlands and it seems fairly barren and empty (maybe it's not peak time), you run around for 10-20 mins, unsure of the objective - things get boring.2- you get to borderlands, try to roam but get immediately taken out by a 500+ rank player you weren't prepared for.3- you get to borderlands, find a blob, but its on the other side of the map and it takes 5 mins to get there by which time they've engaged in a battle and you get wiped immediately because you're not prepared. Another 5 minute run is now needed unless you get picked up.

Don't get me wrong, I've had good fun in WvW but the earlier experiences where you get wrecked and don't know what or how to do things can be very frustrating.

WvW is a great mode but being pitted against players is not for everyone so many don't ever touch it.For those who enjoy pvp, this is far more interesting, however if they've played sPvP where gear/upgrades are standardized, you may be in for a shock as gearing is not balanced the same way. Also sPvP has strategies and plays which are irrelevant in WvW.

In short - WvW is a fantastic mode but sometimes people go in with expectations which are not realistic. If you're a seasoned PvEer and you spend 30-60 mins in WvW getting mashed with 0 loot/rewards, the thought is "why am I doing this when I could go back to PvE and feel like I'm actually not terrible and get a tonne more loot?".

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When I started the game for the first time I didnt even know what WvW was. I didn't even know how to access it.And I made 100% map completion on my first character, and I have to say it helped me a lot understanding the profession. Constantly switching utilities and traits because in open world doesn't matter that much.

Then one day I decided to try sPvP and from there I started slowly to improve against other players too and getting pieces of ascended gear day after day.

Finally when I got full ascended trinkets and weapons I decided to jump into WvW as a solo roamer player and it was hella fun.

Lately it's like 50% fun 50% frustating because of those cheesy build around or those group of people (monkeys) which attack you 5vs1 off objective and chase you for half of the map to kill you, till they do and drop a siege on your body. Yeah it was lame and coward at all yeah.I can get it inside an objective, but being ganked around the map by 4vs1 or more is just coward in my opinion.

In the end, WvW is not an easy mode to jump in for new players because you actually need gear.

Full exotic might work on few professions, but full ascended with wvw infusions makes a huge difference.

sPvP on the other hand is easy to jump in even for new players because gear doesn't matter at all.

I never tried raids or fractals, because I don't have a guild or friends to play with, and because killing bosses etc. makes me bored and I prefer the pvp wvw system a lot more.

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I mostly PvE, but go on WvW binges sometimes. From my perspective, the way I see it, is that a large part of the PvE population are into solo play. That's me too. When I go to WvW, I roam and see what trouble I can get into. I die. A lot. Not everyone takes spending 3/4 of your time playing trying to get back where you were from a rez lightly. But the zerg thing really isn't what they are into. This is why I think so many people don't get into it. They go once, accomplish nothing, and say to themselves "nope, not for me" I do prefer it over sPvP though. I'm only answering to myself for my actions, not a salty teammate.

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Too much wallking, too little pointers at what you should be doing. If you don't play at peak times, join zergs, join teamspeak and pay a few hours of attention you probably won't get into it and that is a requirement not everybody cares about. The fact that some matchups are just 90% for one server and 10% of the other two servers struggling to leave spawn also plays into it. Imo the alpine borderlands also need a massive overhaul. They are bland and boring, despite the hills on the map it just feels entirely flat gameplay wise. It's barren, there are no huge objective/event markers leading people to where things are.

And despite all that I play and love WvW more than any other mode. I don't think there are too many things that need to be changed in the game itself but I'm sure the alliance system will fix many of those issues and perhaps the maps can get smaller scale updates in the future to add onto that.

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WvW is something I do regularly. Its fun. But its narrow. You roam or your follow a Zerg. Period. I remember back in the day defending was part of the meta and I loved it. Now, its evolved. You don't attack unless the other zerg is gone and you don't defend until they are tied up with the Commander of the location. You flow in and either wipe or get wiped. So as others have said, unless you are a born pvp'er and want to roam solo or in small groups or you want to follow the Zerg there is nothing for you to do. You cant really solo upgrade a location, it takes forever, and even if you do it when that opposing zerg shows up no one will help you defend it because that's not what commanders are suppose to do. They are suppose to provide loot bags to the train. I don't like teamspeak, I don't like listening to others (I don't mind following orders, I mean literally having to hear people breath and talk in my living room) so I avoid it, luckily I have played since launch so I know the general rules. Follow the zerg, watch the commander, know your role, don't build siege, stay on stack. But, for a new player it can be disheartening, snowballing mistakes lead to toxicity and if you don't pay close attention to placement you'll get murdered repeatedly.

Not to mention, even since this game launched I have aged. Early to Late twenties. I find myself getting completely lost in massive team fights when years ago I can recall being able to cut through it all and target well and snipe still. Now, its just a giant blob of red death to me.

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@"Voltekka.2375" said:Actually, this is why less people WvW. And more will quit.https://imgur.com/a/WZ7DV

Nightcapping? I doubt most players even know it exists. No the first reply is correct, as @derd6413 points out, gankers are the reason people get frustrated in WvW. It's just sad that Anet made their game so ganker-friendly. It would have been easy to NOT make a super-stealth 1-shot kills you class that can teleport across the entire map in less time than anybody else (Thief - let's put all the abilities possible on one class with no cooldowns, that won't be broken, oh look it is, well never mind nobody seems to be quitting over it and they are still buying gem store items, so let's just continue), or to NOT make a class that, by the admission of Mesmer players themselves, ONLY GOOD PLAYERS know how to even attack them, let alone win!

But ye, keep telling yourself it's something else. Those PvE players you need will stick around when your opinion changes.

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@Svarty.8019 said:

@"Voltekka.2375" said:Actually, this is why less people WvW. And more will quit.

Nightcapping? I doubt most players even know it exists. No the first reply is correct, as @derd6413 points out, gankers are the reason people get frustrated in WvW. It's just sad that Anet made their game so ganker-friendly. It would have been easy to NOT make a super-stealth 1-shot kills you class that can teleport across the entire map in less time than anybody else (Thief - let's put all the abilities possible on one class with no cooldowns, that won't be broken, oh look it is, well never mind nobody seems to be quitting over it and they are still buying gem store items, so let's just continue), or to NOT make a class that, by the admission of Mesmer players themselves, ONLY GOOD PLAYERS know how to even attack them, let alone win!

But ye, keep telling yourself it's something else. Those PvE players you need will stick around when your opinion changes.

You know, WvW isnt roaming 90% (and you only describe roaming there). What the pic shows isnt nightcapping. Its that there is no balance. There is no balance when a server and its link are so overpopulated (bandwagoners ftw!), they have 350/tick and the other 2 a measly 50 combined. There is no balance when you upgrade and defend your hard upgraded T3 stuff throughout the day to see it crumble overnight and throughout most of the morning as it is paper structures, now. No, mate. By no means is WvW just "thieves and mesmers jumping around killing people". WvW is mainly about zerging vs zerging. Apart from world balance, which is nonexistent, theres also the class balance. Scourge has had its diversity killed with the increased cooldowns on F1-F5, as now every scourge MUST get soulreaping line for the reduced 20% of shroud skills. Nah, you just keep telling yourself WvW is sPvP, and that the easy classes with the huge mobility are what kill the mode. They are a small part.

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@Svarty.8019 said:

@"Voltekka.2375" said:Actually, this is why less people WvW. And more will quit.

Nightcapping? I doubt most players even know it exists. No the first reply is correct, as @derd6413 points out, gankers are the reason people get frustrated in WvW. It's just sad that Anet made their game so ganker-friendly. It would have been easy to NOT make a super-stealth 1-shot kills you class that can teleport across the entire map in less time than anybody else (Thief - let's put all the abilities possible on one class with no cooldowns, that won't be broken, oh look it is, well never mind nobody seems to be quitting over it and they are still buying gem store items, so let's just continue), or to NOT make a class that, by the admission of Mesmer players themselves, ONLY GOOD PLAYERS know how to even attack them, let alone win!

But ye, keep telling yourself it's something else. Those PvE players you need will stick around when your opinion changes.

I think his picture is more a symptom of Bandwagoning. As in one server has overwhelmingly higher population than the other 2. It's not uncommon to see a server having one large zerg in more than one server with other servers incapable of competing because of bandwagoning. Hopefully the new "dynamic worlds" will come into play soon enough to fix that which is the major issue with WvW.

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@Seamus.9645 said:WvW is something I do regularly. Its fun. But its narrow. You roam or your follow a Zerg. Period. I remember back in the day defending was part of the meta and I loved it. Now, its evolved. You don't attack unless the other zerg is gone and you don't defend until they are tied up with the Commander of the location. You flow in and either wipe or get wiped. So as others have said, unless you are a born pvp'er and want to roam solo or in small groups or you want to follow the Zerg there is nothing for you to do.

So where does the critical role of being a tower/keep/garrison scout fall into that? It isn't really roaming since you don't wander the map, and you don't really engage enemies 1-on-1. It's definitely not the zerg either. Scouting may be a niche task, but it's a role that some of us undertake. I do it at times when I can't devote 100% of my attention to the game, but I still want to participate in WvW. It's not a hard job, but it's an important one for the overall WvW score if you want to prevent your server's holdings from getting easily flipped. Besides just looking out, you need to keep siege refreshed, and when supplies are topping off, it's useful to start building more siege so the incoming caravan supply doesn't go to waste. If enemies do show up, it's important to assess their threat and relay it in the appropriate chat channel. Knowing which tactivators to pull and when is also important.

tl;dr: WvW is isn't only pvp roaming and zerging.

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I know of people who were only about pve, and then one day got introduced into wvw, had a good time and now spend most of their time playing wvw instead, it's all about the first experience sometimes. If someone walks into wvw the first time roaming and gets destroyed by one shot or one combo thief or mesmer they are likely to just get out of wvw and never to return. If they walked in with a group like their guild to do something like guild missions and get through some of the action, they may enjoy it to stick around.

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@Seamus.9645 said:

Not to mention, even since this game launched I have aged. Early to Late twenties. I find myself getting completely lost in massive team fights when years ago I can recall being able to cut through it all and target well and snipe still. Now, its just a giant blob of red death to me.

The Guild [OLD] waves with our average age around 45. A bit too soon to be using that I think.

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@TheGrimm.5624 said:

Not to mention, even since this game launched I have aged. Early to Late twenties. I find myself getting completely lost in massive team fights when years ago I can recall being able to cut through it all and target well and snipe still. Now, its just a giant blob of red death to me.

The Guild [OLD] waves with our average age around 45. A bit too soon to be using that I think.

It's more likely that the game has just added soooo many more AOEs, more auras on people. I bet if he turned the game to standard models, and turned down the graphics it'd be a much different ball game.

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@Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

Not to mention, even since this game launched I have aged. Early to Late twenties. I find myself getting completely lost in massive team fights when years ago I can recall being able to cut through it all and target well and snipe still. Now, its just a giant blob of red death to me.

The Guild [OLD] waves with our average age around 45. A bit too soon to be using that I think.

It's more likely that the game has just added soooo many more AOEs, more auras on people. I bet if he turned the game to standard models, and turned down the graphics it'd be a much different ball game.

Could be but had to poke some, know some gamers in their late 60s rocking it. But agree, there is a LOT of screen noise.

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@TheGrimm.5624 said:

Not to mention, even since this game launched I have aged. Early to Late twenties. I find myself getting completely lost in massive team fights when years ago I can recall being able to cut through it all and target well and snipe still. Now, its just a giant blob of red death to me.

The Guild [OLD] waves with our average age around 45. A bit too soon to be using that I think.

It's more likely that the game has just added soooo many more AOEs, more auras on people. I bet if he turned the game to standard models, and turned down the graphics it'd be a much different ball game.

Could be but had to poke some, know some gamers in their late 60s rocking it. But agree, there is a LOT of screen noise.

Oh yea, I play with several people in game that are grandparents. Of course though that could also be because I'm in Geezer [GZR].

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@TheGrimm.5624 said:

Not to mention, even since this game launched I have aged. Early to Late twenties. I find myself getting completely lost in massive team fights when years ago I can recall being able to cut through it all and target well and snipe still. Now, its just a giant blob of red death to me.

The Guild [OLD] waves with our average age around 45. A bit too soon to be using that I think.

?

Are you suggesting I haven't aged?

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To be fair WvW is endgame and there are very little other things in game that lead you there. Not to mention some people just don't want to play against other people. If you think about WvW is one of the few spots that build, class, playstyle, gear, rotations all really matter. Raids are close but I tend to put WvW above that since the raid boss is a mechanic where as people will change between one second of a fight and another. Couple that with its not easy to level in WvW and you further delay peoples entry into the game mode, so yes can see various reasons, even if I myself quite enjoy it.

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@TheGrimm.5624 said:

Not to mention, even since this game launched I have aged. Early to Late twenties. I find myself getting completely lost in massive team fights when years ago I can recall being able to cut through it all and target well and snipe still. Now, its just a giant blob of red death to me.

The Guild [OLD] waves with our average age around 45. A bit too soon to be using that I think.

Lol, I was thinking the same thing. I'm 50 and have no problems in WvW. While a couple specs are a little too much twitch reflex for me to excel at, there is enough variety in this game that you find things you do excel at. Late 20's though .... LOL.

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@Kalendraf.9521 said:

@Seamus.9645 said:WvW is something I do regularly. Its fun. But its narrow.
You roam or your follow a Zerg. Period.
I remember back in the day defending was part of the meta and I loved it. Now, its evolved. You don't attack unless the other zerg is gone and you don't defend until they are tied up with the Commander of the location. You flow in and either wipe or get wiped. So as others have said,
unless you are a born pvp'er and want to roam solo or in small groups or you want to follow the Zerg there is nothing for you to do.

So where does the critical role of being a tower/keep/garrison scout fall into that? It isn't really roaming since you don't wander the map, and you don't really engage enemies 1-on-1. It's definitely not the zerg either. Scouting may be a niche task, but it's a role that some of us undertake. I do it at times when I can't devote 100% of my attention to the game, but I still want to participate in WvW. It's not a hard job, but it's an important one for the overall WvW score if you want to prevent your server's holdings from getting easily flipped. Besides just looking out, you need to keep siege refreshed, and when supplies are topping off, it's useful to start building more siege so the incoming caravan supply doesn't go to waste. If enemies do show up, it's important to assess their threat and relay it in the appropriate chat channel. Knowing which tactivators to pull and when is also important.

tl;dr: WvW is isn't only pvp roaming and zerging.

I don't know what your server is but the meta that I play in and against is No defense, beyond counter zerging their attacking zerg. The static AC defenses of Towers is basically dead ASAIK from my playing experience.

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