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[Elite Suggestion] Maniac


Regon Phoenix.8215
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Theme: something like that classical bizarre fighter who wears no armor, carry oversized sword and perform reckless yet very fast attacks devastating enemies enemies like a madman. A class fantasy about a rogue like character who went insane, picked the most massive weapon available and started jumping, slashing, cutting, crashing, spinning and destroying everything around him/her.

New mechanic: charges (the will circle around your main-hand weapon and each individual charge will last for 20 sec; Similar how Assassin's charges looked in Diablo 2). There are three charges with different colors and charges can only be generated while you are in combat. Each color shows what that charge is all about: red - direct damage, blue - condition damage, green - healing. Thief can have up to 3 charges regardless of their color (for example you can have 3 green charges or 2 red charges and 1 green charge, but you can't have more that 3 total charges). In addition, steal gets replaced by burst (still counts towards all steal related traits) which works very similarly to warrior's burst, but with a tiny difference. Burst skills use up charges to gain additional power. More charges get used up = stronger burst you will get. Also, just like with warrior, this burst skill depends on your weapon choice.



Adept Minor Trait (Abandon Reason)Unlock Greatsword and allow you to use Charge-up abilities.Replace Steal with Burst. Reduce your maximum initiative by 2.

Adept Major Trait LineMajor Trait 1 (Red Means Power)Scoring a critical hit against an enemy will give you Red Charge. Cooldown: 3 sec.Major Trait 2 (Blue Means Degeneration)Inflicting an enemy with a poison will grant you Blue Charge. Cooldown: 5 sec.Major Trait 3 (Green Means Retreat)When you enter stealth you gain Green Charge. Cooldown: 10 sec.

-

Master Minor Trait (Power Charges Up)Every time you reach 3 charges you gain 5 stacks of might for 3 sec.

Master Major Trait LineMajor Trait 4 (Unstoppable Mobility)While you have Greatsword equipped your movement abilities will remove 1 damaging condition and 1 non-damaging condition.Major Trait 5 (Tactics? Nahhhh)Conditions inflicted through your Blue Charge will last 30% longer.Major Trait 6 (Temporal Sanity)When you get downed you will instantly consume all your Green Charges reviving yourself by 12% per charge consumed.

-

Grandmaster Minor Trait (Ready Again)Your burst skill refresh 10 points of initiative.

Grandmaster Major Trait LineMajor Trait 7 (Overcharged)Your Charge-up abilities will now generate 1 bonus charge of same color and increase the maximum number of charges you can have to 4.Major Trait 8 (Only Madness Spreads)When your burst skill consumes a Blue Charge you will transfer 2 conditions from you to every enemy hit by your burst ability. Consuming more Blue Charges will transfer more conditions.Major Trait 9 (Madness Fuel)When you about to get downed, the you will enter into state of mania, allowing you to fight for 5 sec with new health pool of 10k health. While in this state you can't be healed and if you run our of health you will get downed instantly. When this state ends, then you will get downed.



Greatsword Burst (Hunting the Pray)Jump forward (to your target) and anchor you greatsword into the ground while evading attacks and performing overhead attack against nearby enemies dealing damage to them and consuming all your charges.

  • Casting time: 3/4 sec
  • Cooldown: 14 sec
  • Range: 900
  • Radius: 240
  • Evasion: 3/4 sec
  • Damage: 300 (scales with power)
  • Per red charge consumed: deal 200 (scales with power) bonus damage
  • Per blue charge consumed: inflict 2 stacks of bleeding for 6 sec
  • Per green charge consumed: leech health dealing 100 (scales with power) damage, healing 200 (scales with healing power
  • Leap combo finisher

Shortbow Burst (Flashing Barrage)Shadow step around your target launching attacks at it.

  • Casting time: 1/2 sec
  • Cooldown: 14 sec
  • Range: 900
  • Damage: 250 (scales with power)
  • Number of attacks: 2
  • Per red charge consumed: increase number of attacks by 1
  • Per blue charge consumed: inflict 1 stack of poison for 3 sec and 1 stack of bleed for 5 sec
  • Per green charge consumed: regain 4 initiative

Sword Burst (Snatch Steal)Slice your target dealing damage and stealing boons.

  • Casting time: 1/2 sec
  • Cooldown: 14 sec
  • Range: 140
  • Damage: 750 (scales with power)
  • Number of boons stolen: 2
  • Per red charge consumed: steal 1 more boon
  • Per blue charge consumed: immobilize enemy hit for 2 sec
  • Per green charge consumed: gain regeneration for 3 sec and fury for 2 sec

Dagger Burst (Mosquito Bite)Shadowstep to your target and poison your target.

  • Casting time: instant
  • Cooldown: 14 sec
  • Range: 600
  • Damage: 350 (scales with power)
  • Poison: 2 stacks for 10 sec
  • Per red charge consumed: daze your target for 3/4 sec
  • Per blue charge consumed: inflict 1 stack of poison for 10 sec
  • Per green charge consumed: after performing the attack gain 2 sec of stealth

Pistol Burst (God Slayer Bullet)Shoot your target with deadly titanium bullet. Hitting an enemy in the back or to the side will have 30% bonus critical strike chance.

  • Casting time: 1/2 sec
  • Cooldown: 14 sec
  • Range: 900
  • Damage: 600 (scales with power)
  • Per red charge consumed: deal 150 (scales with power) bonus damage
  • Per blue charge consumed: stun your target for 3/4 sec
  • Per green charge consumed: gain 4 stacks of might for 10 sec


Greatsword 1 (Vertical Swing)First hit of three hit chain. Hit several enemies in front of you.

  • Casting time: 3/4 sec
  • Range: 200
  • Enemies hit: up to 3
  • Damage: 450 (scales with power)

Greatsword 1 (Heavy Spin)Second hit of three hit chain. Perform a spinning attack hitting all enemies around you. Generate a Red Charge if this ability scores a critical strike.

  • Casting time: 3/4 sec
  • Radius: 200
  • Enemies hit: up to 5
  • Damage: 450 (scales with power)
  • Charge generation cooldown: 8 sec

Greatsword 1 (Impaling Stab)Third hit of three hit chain. Stab forward impaling all enemies in front of you. Generate a Red Charge if this ability scores a critical strike.

  • Casting time: 1/2 sec
  • Range: 300
  • Enemies hit: up to 5
  • Damage: 500 (scales with power)
  • Charge generation cooldown: 8 sec

Greatsword 2 (At their Ankles)Roll forward evading all attacks and cripple all nearby enemies.

  • Casting time: instant
  • Initiative cost: 4
  • Evasion: 1/2 sec
  • Range: 300
  • Cripple: 4 sec

Greatsword 3 (Hook and Heavy Swing)Hit an enemy with your fist. If first strike hits, then perform an arching attack (after 3/4 sec from initial hit) in front of you knocking back all enemies in front of you.

  • Casting time: 1/2 sec
  • Initiative cost: 6
  • Range of first hit: 140
  • Range of second hit: 200
  • First strike damage: 200 (scales with power)
  • Second hit damage: 500 (scales with power)
  • Knockback distance: 300

Greatsword 4 (A wall of Steel)Remove 2 conditions from yourself and guard yourself from all attacks for a duration. Generate Green Charge if you block an attack.

  • Casting time: instant
  • Duration: 2 sec
  • Initiative cost: 8
  • Charge generation cooldown: 6 sec

Greatsword 5 (Mad Tornado)Spin around hitting nearby enemies several times dealing damage and bleeding them. Reflect projectiles while you are spinning.

  • Casting time: instant
  • Channel time 2 sec
  • Radius: 240
  • Initiative cost: 8
  • Number of hits: 4
  • Damage (4x): 1200 (scales with power)
  • Bleed per hit: 2 stacks for 6 sec


Healing Charge-up (Gather Health)Heal yourself and generate a Green Charge. Heal more per existing Green Charge on you.

  • Casting time: 1/2 sec
  • Cooldown: 10 sec
  • Healing: 2000 (scales with healing power)
  • Healing increase per Green Charge: 15%

Utility Charge-up 1 (Generate Force)Knock all nearby enemies away and generate a Red Charge.

  • Casting time: 1/2 sec
  • Cooldown: 12 sec
  • Radius: 140
  • Knockback distance: 240

Utility Charge-up 2 (Generate Aggression)Spit into your target's face blinding it and generate a Blue Charge.

  • Casting time: 1/4 sec
  • Cooldown: 8 sec
  • Range: 600
  • Blind: 3 sec

Utility Charge-up 3 (Generate Power)Generate 3 Red Charges.

  • Casting time: 1/2 sec
  • Cooldown: 16 sec

Utility Charge-up 4 (Generate Escape)Remove cripple, chill, slow and immobilize from you, gain stealth and superspeed. Generate a Green Charge.

  • Casting time: 1/2 sec
  • Cooldown: 40 sec
  • Stealth: 3 sec
  • Superspeed: 2 sec

Elite Charge-up (Generate Madness)Gain special effect based on weapon in your main hand.

  • Casting time: 1/2 sec
  • Cooldown: 40 sec
  • Greatsword: generate 3 Red Charges and refresh your Burst skill.
  • Shortbow: generate 3 Blue Charges and gain quickness for 3 sec.
  • Sword: remove all conditions from yourself and generate a Red Charge for every condition removed.
  • Dagger: generate 3 Blue Charges and your attacks becomes unblockable for 3 sec.
  • Pistol: generate a Red Charge, a Blue charge and a Green charge, and gain 5 stacks of might for 10 sec.


Update 2018-05-20: changed several stuff about greatsword AA, reduce maximum initiative by 2 and increase utility of pistol burst.

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This looks really fun, honestly a lot of these skills though are skills I would love to use with steal, it's sad to see steal go.

I have a few questions for you:

The charge skills sound just like warriors burst skills, what makes them different enough to give them a new type?

I thought this might be a very strong dps in PvE and a strong brawler in pvp, but I don't see any traits that support that though. I especially missed any significant damage increasing traits. So I wonder where do you envision this in the meta and what sort of roles this would fill?

What role do the charges play other than an increase the potential strength of charge-up skills? Do they offer any other benefits to the player?

Have you considered replacing initiative with a charge bar? It would be a bit of a deviation, but it seems like a natural fit because there is 9 initiative points and 9 charge points and both have similar functions. I think there would be some really interesting synergy with preexisting traits, especially those in trickery.

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@Zlater.6789 said:The charge skills sound just like warriors burst skills, what makes them different enough to give them a new type?

When, this spec do have burst skill. On the top of the suggestion:

Replace Steal with Burst.

And this burst is similar to warrior. It depends on your weapon, different weapon have different burst.However, this burst is quite different, because it uses charges. And this spec have different charges: red for damage, blue for conditions, green for sustain/defense.This spec can have up to 3 charges of any color, so you can mix what you need for example 2 red charges and 1 blue charge will give quite a lot of direct damage and some conditions, or you could mix 2 green charges and 1 red charge for sustain and a little bit of damage.

So, key differences:1) Warrior's burst is static and always the same, maniac's burst depends on the charges you generate and you can have variety of different things with just one burst of one weapon2) Maniac's burst have three distinctive effects on of single burst and you can't attune your build to one of them, two of them or all three of them

@Zlater.6789 said:I thought this might be a very strong dps in PvE and a strong brawler in pvp, but I don't see any traits that support that though.

Well, lets talk about power builds. So, triats:

Major Trait 1 (Red Means Power)Scoring a critical hit against an enemy will give you Red Charge. Cooldown: 3 sec.Master Minor Trait (Power Charges Up)Every time you reach 3 charges you gain 5 stacks of might for 3 sec.Grandmaster Minor Trait (Ready Again)Your burst skill refresh 10 points of initiative.Major Trait 7 (Overcharged)Your Charge-up abilities will now generate 1 bonus charge of same color and increase the maximum number of charges you can have to 4.

Red charges are power charges. Generating more charges and having higher charge limit (up to 4) by default increase maximum damage you can do. Also, generating maximum power charges you gain stacks of might. Because you will going power route, you will scoring critical strikes quite often, generating red charges. And after you perform burst, you will regenerate initiative allowing to spam your damaging abilities even more.Similar analogy goes for condition damage.This elite do have lots of damage increasing traits, most of them actually. They are just cleverly hidden behind functionality of charges.

@Zlater.6789 said:Do they offer any other benefits to the player?

No, they just stay on you until you use them up. They change your burst skill and that's all. They already provide lots of power, so adding even more power would be too much.

@Zlater.6789 said:Have you considered replacing initiative with a charge bar? It would be a bit of a deviation, but it seems like a natural fit because there is 9 initiative points and 9 charge points and both have similar functions. I think there would be some really interesting synergy with preexisting traits, especially those in trickery.

No, too many core traits and core abilities work with initiative to replace it. And there are 3 TOTAL charges you can have. Not 3 of every color, but 3 in total regardless of colors.

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@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@Zlater.6789 said:The charge skills sound just like warriors burst skills, what makes them different enough to give them a new type?

When, this spec do have burst skill. On the top of the suggestion:

Replace
Steal
with
Burst
.

And this burst is similar to warrior. It depends on your weapon, different weapon have different burst.However, this burst is quite different, because it uses charges. And this spec have different charges: red for damage, blue for conditions, green for sustain/defense.This spec can have up to 3 charges of any color, so you can mix what you need for example 2 red charges and 1 blue charge will give quite a lot of direct damage and some conditions, or you could mix 2 green charges and 1 red charge for sustain and a little bit of damage.

So, key differences:1) Warrior's burst is static and always the same, maniac's burst depends on the charges you generate and you can have variety of different things with just one burst of one weapon2) Maniac's burst have three distinctive effects on of single burst and you can't attune your build to one of them, two of them or all three of them

@Zlater.6789 said:I thought this might be a very strong dps in PvE and a strong brawler in pvp, but I don't see any traits that support that though.

Well, lets talk about power builds. So, triats:

Major Trait 1
(Red Means Power)Scoring a critical hit against an enemy will give you Red Charge. Cooldown: 3 sec.
Master Minor Trait
(Power Charges Up)Every time you reach 3 charges you gain 5 stacks of might for 3 sec.
Grandmaster Minor Trait
(Ready Again)Your burst skill refresh 10 points of initiative.
Major Trait 7
(Overcharged)Your Charge-up abilities will now generate 1 bonus charge of same color and increase the maximum number of charges you can have to 4.

Red charges are power charges. Generating more charges and having higher charge limit (up to 4) by default increase maximum damage you can do. Also, generating maximum power charges you gain stacks of might. Because you will going power route, you will scoring critical strikes quite often, generating red charges. And after you perform burst, you will regenerate initiative allowing to spam your damaging abilities even more.Similar analogy goes for condition damage.This elite do have lots of damage increasing traits, most of them actually. They are just cleverly hidden behind functionality of charges.

@Zlater.6789 said:Do they offer any other benefits to the player?

No, they just stay on you until you use them up. They change your burst skill and that's all. They already provide lots of power, so adding even more power would be too much.

@Zlater.6789 said:Have you considered replacing initiative with a charge bar? It would be a bit of a deviation, but it seems like a natural fit because there is 9 initiative points and 9 charge points and both have similar functions. I think there would be some really interesting synergy with preexisting traits, especially those in trickery.

No, too many core traits and core abilities work with initiative to replace it. And there are 3 TOTAL charges you can have. Not 3 of every color, but 3 in total regardless of colors.

Honestly I just dont think its enough, if I were to benchmark something like this I'd be expecting somewhere in the range of 25k or lower, in pve that's not enough to be considered a dps spec, since this is still a very selfish spec it couldn't be considered a support spec either. I'd be looking for damage modifiers or absolutely insane co-efficients on greatsword. But generally you don't want that because it creates a giant disparity between the GS and its other weapons, not to mention it has the potential to do stupid burst that will just break the crap out of PvP.

In PvP id be running zerk/scholar GS/GS all of the way xD Literally every skill is an evade knockback or block, you just chain those fellas together and pump initiative regen up forever, then hit them with a GS burst and you've won literally every matchup.

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@Zlater.6789 said:

@Zlater.6789 said:The charge skills sound just like warriors burst skills, what makes them different enough to give them a new type?

When, this spec do have burst skill. On the top of the suggestion:

Replace
Steal
with
Burst
.

And this burst is similar to warrior. It depends on your weapon, different weapon have different burst.However, this burst is quite different, because it uses charges. And this spec have different charges: red for damage, blue for conditions, green for sustain/defense.This spec can have up to 3 charges of any color, so you can mix what you need for example 2 red charges and 1 blue charge will give quite a lot of direct damage and some conditions, or you could mix 2 green charges and 1 red charge for sustain and a little bit of damage.

So, key differences:1) Warrior's burst is static and always the same, maniac's burst depends on the charges you generate and you can have variety of different things with just one burst of one weapon2) Maniac's burst have three distinctive effects on of single burst and you can't attune your build to one of them, two of them or all three of them

@Zlater.6789 said:I thought this might be a very strong dps in PvE and a strong brawler in pvp, but I don't see any traits that support that though.

Well, lets talk about power builds. So, triats:

Major Trait 1
(Red Means Power)Scoring a critical hit against an enemy will give you Red Charge. Cooldown: 3 sec.
Master Minor Trait
(Power Charges Up)Every time you reach 3 charges you gain 5 stacks of might for 3 sec.
Grandmaster Minor Trait
(Ready Again)Your burst skill refresh 10 points of initiative.
Major Trait 7
(Overcharged)Your Charge-up abilities will now generate 1 bonus charge of same color and increase the maximum number of charges you can have to 4.

Red charges are power charges. Generating more charges and having higher charge limit (up to 4) by default increase maximum damage you can do. Also, generating maximum power charges you gain stacks of might. Because you will going power route, you will scoring critical strikes quite often, generating red charges. And after you perform burst, you will regenerate initiative allowing to spam your damaging abilities even more.Similar analogy goes for condition damage.This elite do have lots of damage increasing traits, most of them actually. They are just cleverly hidden behind functionality of charges.

@Zlater.6789 said:Do they offer any other benefits to the player?

No, they just stay on you until you use them up. They change your burst skill and that's all. They already provide lots of power, so adding even more power would be too much.

@Zlater.6789 said:Have you considered replacing initiative with a charge bar? It would be a bit of a deviation, but it seems like a natural fit because there is 9 initiative points and 9 charge points and both have similar functions. I think there would be some really interesting synergy with preexisting traits, especially those in trickery.

No, too many core traits and core abilities work with initiative to replace it. And there are 3 TOTAL charges you can have. Not 3 of every color, but 3 in total regardless of colors.

Honestly I just dont think its enough, if I were to benchmark something like this I'd be expecting somewhere in the range of 25k or lower, in pve that's not enough to be considered a dps spec.

Are you sure?Lets take dual Pistol for example with these traits:

  • Major Trait 1 (Red Means Power)
  • Master Minor Trait (Power Charges Up)
  • Grandmaster Minor Trait (Ready Again)
  • Major Trait 7 (Overcharged)

And utility:

  • Utility Charge-up 3 (Generate Power)
  • Assassin's Signet

Then, you will have:1) Permanent 25 stacks of might2) Decent red charge generation3) Pistol burst skill with 4 (traited) charges would deal 1250 base damage (with significant power, ferocity and precision it could be critting for 15k-18k)4) You could pretty much spam unload non-stop, because of initiative regeneration after burst use5) With right traitlines you will have permanent fury on yourself6) With deadly arts and trickery traitlines burst skill could be critting for 20k-25k against enemies at 50% of their maximum health or bellow

So, i think this elite have quite a lot of single target damage if you focus purely on damage. It might not have as much damage as deadeye, but i think it might be close second.

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@"Devoneaux.6302" said:I'd prefer something more focused explicitely on buffing your teammates rather than another damage elite spec. Something with shouts and a torch perhaps?

Also "Executioner" would imo be a better name than Maniac

To be honest, i too would like to have support/tank spec for thief focused on helping others out, something like a field medic - lightly armed doctor. But i don't think that would happen, and another new take on damage dealer is way more likely.

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@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@"Devoneaux.6302" said:I'd prefer something more focused explicitely on buffing your teammates rather than another damage elite spec. Something with shouts and a torch perhaps?

Also "Executioner" would imo be a better name than Maniac

To be honest, i too would like to have support/tank spec for thief focused on helping others out, something like a field medic - lightly armed doctor. But i don't think that would happen, and another new take on damage dealer is way more likely.

Sawbones...Gains a torch for cauterizing wounds. =P

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  • 1 month later...

@Devoneaux.6302 said:

@Devoneaux.6302 said:I'd prefer something more focused explicitely on buffing your teammates rather than another damage elite spec. Something with shouts and a torch perhaps?

Also "Executioner" would imo be a better name than Maniac

To be honest, i too would like to have support/tank spec for thief focused on helping others out, something like a field medic - lightly armed doctor. But i don't think that would happen, and another new take on damage dealer is way more likely.

Sawbones...Gains a torch for cauterizing wounds. =P

Doesn't seem likely. Also, cauterizing wounds would not heal people...

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@Jack Redline.5379 said:great sword is really not a good weapon for Thief also Maniac could be a sort of Berserker which alraedy is Warior sry i must say no

@Synstylae.2751 said:Bad idea, greatswords dont fit into thieves weaponry, nice effort though, but still no

Many weapons don't fit many classes, but it still fit somehow. Anet could make it fit and why doesn't it fit thief. Thief essentially is an agile and fast attacker who avoid attacks as a form of defense and perform specific heavy attacks then retreat after attacking either through stealth or mobility. What i presented fits this perfectly, but my elite more focused on damage instead of mobility/stealth, but other than that it is fit to the core idea of thief.

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@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@Jack Redline.5379 said:great sword is really not a good weapon for Thief also Maniac could be a sort of Berserker which alraedy is Warior sry i must say no

@Synstylae.2751 said:Bad idea, greatswords dont fit into thieves weaponry, nice effort though, but still no

Many weapons don't fit many classes, but it still fit somehow. Anet could make it fit and why doesn't it fit thief. Thief essentially is an agile and fast attacker who avoid attacks as a form of defense and perform specific heavy attacks then retreat after attacking either through stealth or mobility. What i presented fits this perfectly, but my elite more focused on damage instead of mobility/stealth, but other than that it is fit to the core idea of thief.

There is nothing fast and agile about greatswords. Thieves are also considered far less muscular than warriors, i doubt a thief could even lift a greatsword, thats why they usually stick to small one handed weapons. Giving staff to thieves was a mistake on anet's behalf, it must have been the choice with least work.

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@Synstylae.2751 said:

@Jack Redline.5379 said:great sword is really not a good weapon for Thief also Maniac could be a sort of Berserker which alraedy is Warior sry i must say no

@Synstylae.2751 said:Bad idea, greatswords dont fit into thieves weaponry, nice effort though, but still no

Many weapons don't fit many classes, but it still fit somehow. Anet could make it fit and why doesn't it fit thief. Thief essentially is an agile and fast attacker who avoid attacks as a form of defense and perform specific heavy attacks then retreat after attacking either through stealth or mobility. What i presented fits this perfectly, but my elite more focused on damage instead of mobility/stealth, but other than that it is fit to the core idea of thief.

There is nothing fast and agile about greatswords. Thieves are also considered far less muscular than warriors, i doubt a thief could even lift a greatsword, thats why the usually stick to small one handed weapons. Giving staff to thieves was a mistake on anet's behalf, it must have been the choice with least work.

Agreed to pretty much what this guy just said. Instead having Thieves getting more assassin like specialisation with an offhand sword would in my opinion be far better. Medium armor sets just cry out to be used with dual-wielding swords, something that we don't have yet ingame.

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