Remove Sand Savant already..

[Imperadordf.2687]

Simple fix to all the salt and cries. The other nerfs can be reverted. Just remove that braindead trait.

[ReaverKane.7598]

LOL why?If anything it's one of the best made traits in the game. You have to clearly sacrifice one thing to gain another.And why is it braindead? If anything that trait creates the need for more planning since you only have one shade to rely on instead of 3.

[Imperadordf.2687]

@ReaverKane.7598 said:LOL why?If anything it's one of the best made traits in the game. You have to clearly sacrifice one thing to gain another.And why is it braindead? If anything that trait creates the need for more planning since you only have one shade to rely on instead of 3.

• The Scourge acts like a shade itself so Greater Shade + Scourge can cover 600 Radius which absolutely ruins the fun in SPvP.
• 300 Radius mostly is an entire point so making one node a deadzone is braindead.
• You only have one shade to rely on instead of 3. But that one shade has 3 charges and has a reduced cooldown.

[Math.5123]

@ReaverKane.7598 said:LOL why?If anything it's one of the best made traits in the game. You have to clearly sacrifice one thing to gain another.And why is it braindead? If anything that trait creates the need for more planning since you only have one shade to rely on instead of 3.

Sand savant + Necro is more AOE coverage than no sand savant + three shades + Necro. Also, without the trait you can't keep then up indefinitely.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

@ReaverKane.7598 said:LOL why?If anything it's one of the best made traits in the game. You have to clearly sacrifice one thing to gain another.And why is it braindead? If anything that trait creates the need for more planning since you only have one shade to rely on instead of 3.

It's braindead because I drop the one shade on the point and I control the entire thing. I can keep said shade up indefinitely as well.

Getting rid of the big shade aspect needs to happen, and I'm confident it eventually will. The problem is that I'm anticipating at least two more balance patches before then and Scourge will continue to get slammed with nerfs in different ways each time, none of which get reverted (because ANet never reverts nerfs).

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:LOL why?If anything it's one of the best made traits in the game. You have to clearly sacrifice one thing to gain another.And why is it braindead? If anything that trait creates the need for more planning since you only have one shade to rely on instead of 3.

Sand savant + Necro is more AOE coverage than no sand savant + three shades + Necro. Also, without the trait you can't keep then up indefinitely.3 shades+Scourge covers ~71% of the area as Sand Savant+Scourge. It's a rather significant loss in coverage.

[Julius Seizure.4985]

It’s unfortunate, but Sand Savant has been the real isssue since the beginning with regards to Scourge balance in WvW and PvP. They haven’t changed it, I believe, because they want support Scourge to be a thing in raid content and have let this trait ruin PvP/WvW in the meantime.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

@Julius Seizure.4985 said:It’s unfortunate, but Sand Savant has been the real isssue since the beginning with regards to Scourge balance in WvW and PvP. They haven’t changed it, I believe, because they want support Scourge to be a thing in raid content and have let this trait ruin PvP/WvW in the meantime.

The funny thing is, Support Scourge doesn't need the radius increase in PvE, just the target cap. Stacking is pretty normal in raids for the majority of the party.

Cooldown reduction and target cap can remain, but removing the radius increase will have minor effects in PvE while major ones in PvP/WvW.

[Hesacon.8735]

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Julius Seizure.4985 said:It’s unfortunate, but Sand Savant has been the real isssue since the beginning with regards to Scourge balance in WvW and PvP. They haven’t changed it, I believe, because they want support Scourge to be a thing in raid content and have let this trait ruin PvP/WvW in the meantime.

The funny thing is, Support Scourge doesn't need the radius increase in PvE, just the target cap. Stacking is pretty normal in raids for the majority of the party.

Cooldown reduction and target cap can remain, but removing the radius increase will have minor effects in PvE while major ones in PvP/WvW.

The funnier thing is, Support Scourge has never caught on in raids, and the reduced damage output has mostly kept it out of raids.

[ReaverKane.7598]

@"Julius Seizure.4985" said:It’s unfortunate, but Sand Savant has been the real isssue since the beginning with regards to Scourge balance in WvW and PvP. They haven’t changed it, I believe, because they want support Scourge to be a thing in raid content and have let this trait ruin PvP/WvW in the meantime.

The real issue is that Arena Net cant' balance and didn't give us ways to counter shades, except for a FPS breaking "warning light". Sand Savant is actually a great trait with a give-and-take balance.Problem is that shades have no interaction. They failed at balancing the mechanic, and people fail to isolate the actual problem. Because i'd rather have the dynamic cover of 3 shades than the static cover of a single shade, especially if shades had an interaction.

[shadowpass.4236]

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@"Julius Seizure.4985" said:It’s unfortunate, but Sand Savant has been the real isssue since the beginning with regards to Scourge balance in WvW and PvP. They haven’t changed it, I believe, because they want support Scourge to be a thing in raid content and have let this trait ruin PvP/WvW in the meantime.

The real issue is that Arena Net cant' balance and didn't give us ways to counter shades, except for a FPS breaking "warning light". Sand Savant is actually a great trait with a give-and-take balance.Problem is that shades have no interaction. They failed at balancing the mechanic, and people fail to isolate the actual problem. Because i'd rather have the dynamic cover of 3 shades than the static cover of a single shade, especially if shades had an interaction.

There is no give or take. It's all upside.

The massive AoE is unhealthy for the gamemode. There's no reason why such a strong damage/denial skill should have such a massive area and be unable to be LoS'd.

[Julius Seizure.4985]

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@"Julius Seizure.4985" said:It’s unfortunate, but Sand Savant has been the real isssue since the beginning with regards to Scourge balance in WvW and PvP. They haven’t changed it, I believe, because they want support Scourge to be a thing in raid content and have let this trait ruin PvP/WvW in the meantime.

The real issue is that Arena Net cant' balance and didn't give us ways to counter shades, except for a FPS breaking "warning light". Sand Savant is actually a great trait with a give-and-take balance.Problem is that shades have no interaction. They failed at balancing the mechanic, and people fail to isolate the actual problem. Because i'd rather have the dynamic cover of 3 shades than the static cover of a single shade, especially if shades had an interaction.

There is no give and take to Sand Savant. It has lower recharge, increased radius, and counts as 3 shades for associated traits.

[Itz Jay.8941]

@Imperadordf.2687 said:Simple fix to all the salt and cries. The other nerfs can be reverted. Just remove that braindead trait.

Yeah I think I agree with this one. It might be a good idea to completely rework it into a support trait instead.

[Saiyan.1704]

Except Anet don't revert nerfs, like ever.

[Axl.8924]

The problem is:Some of the kinds of nerfs asked don't solve the problem and 2:Wreck necromancers newest elite.

[Imperadordf.2687]

@Axl.8924 said:The problem is:Some of the kinds of nerfs asked don't solve the problem and 2:Wreck necromancers newest elite.

Except it will solve the massive AoE problem and no, it won’t wreck Scourge. Scourge will still have AoE coverage and big condition output.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

@Imperadordf.2687 said:

@Axl.8924 said:The problem is:Some of the kinds of nerfs asked don't solve the problem and 2:Wreck necromancers newest elite.

Except it will solve the massive AoE problem and no, it won’t wreck Scourge. Scourge will still have AoE coverage and big condition output.

Well, if they don't roll back some of the nerfs the spec already got, it probably would send Scourge to the trash heap. It still needs to happen, because they can't get Scourge in a good spot without nerfing the Sand Savant radius.

[Solaris.2489]

I just quit complaining eventually and have been playing scourge myself for the last 2 months, its awesome xD

[apharma.3741]

I think the best reason to remove sand savant is because it makes balancing the scourge quite a bit more difficult as you end up with such a big increase in AoE on a single skill. This means if you make the effects weak then non savant builds are poor and if you make non savant shade skills good savant dominates.

Edit: by remove I obviously mean rework before someone gets hurt feelings at having 2 scourge GMs

[Imperadordf.2687]

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Imperadordf.2687 said:

@Axl.8924 said:The problem is:Some of the kinds of nerfs asked don't solve the problem and 2:Wreck necromancers newest elite.

Except it will solve the massive AoE problem and no, it won’t wreck Scourge. Scourge will still have AoE coverage and big condition output.

Well, if they don't roll back some of the nerfs the spec already got, it probably would send Scourge to the trash heap. It still needs to happen, because they can't get Scourge in a good spot without nerfing the Sand Savant radius.

Exactly what I’m talking about. Even if all the conditions were removed from the game, Greater Shades would still be annoying because of the big radius.

Sand Savant isn’t balanced and an elite can’t be balanced around it.