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Bring PvP passive nerfs to WvW


BeepBoopBop.5403
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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:We considered the nerfs for passives in WvW. But in the end we were really concerned that the reduced defenses would make large group fights a lot less fun. There are just too many AOEs being flung around.

I'd welcome more discussion though.

Maybe the PvP nerfs are too harsh then? There has got to be some middle ground. Idea for next WvW community poll ;)

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@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:We considered the nerfs for passives in WvW. But in the end we were really concerned that the reduced defenses would make large group fights a lot less fun. There are just too many AOEs being flung around.

I'd welcome more discussion though.

Maybe the PvP nerfs are too harsh then? There has got to be some middle ground. Idea for next WvW community poll ;)

That's a good idea.

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:We considered the nerfs for passives in WvW. But in the end we were really concerned that the reduced defenses would make large group fights a lot less fun. There are just too many AOEs being flung around.

I'd welcome more discussion though.

So nerf the AOE's like everyone with a skilled mindset has been asking for. All AOE's should be balanced such as the engineer mortar kit is a balanced AOE or how warrior has balanced AOE (hint: warrior has none other than bubble) IMO AOE shouldn't even exist as a thing outside of being centered around the character itself like how warrior greatsword burst is. Necromancer (scourge) is the biggest offender here. Reaper is actually the balanced spec. I've always thought marks were imbalanced too TBH. They should flash before actually triggering like the scourges garbage does currently, since a staff rework isn't practical. As for scourge, it should be overhauled entirely.

Nerf AOE spam. AOE's are fine if they aren't spam - Eg. Meteor Shower. But the spam has to go.

Then reconsider nerfing the passive garbage again.

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:We considered the nerfs for passives in WvW. But in the end we were really concerned that the reduced defenses would make large group fights a lot less fun. There are just too many AOEs being flung around.

I'd welcome more discussion though.

My biggest concern with the passive nerfs coming to WvW would be the 90 sec cooldown blanket treatment most of the passive traits got. Something like Arcane Shielding or Reactive Lenses is not equal to Defy Pain or Stoneform defensively, yet they're all on the same 90 sec cooldown in PvP now.

If the passive traits instead got increased on a case by case basis or by a certain percentage from their PVE cooldowns, then I think the nerfs would be more reasonable.

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:We considered the nerfs for passives in WvW. But in the end we were really concerned that the reduced defenses would make large group fights a lot less fun. There are just too many AOEs being flung around.

I'd welcome more discussion though.

I don't mean to put words into your mouth, but that very well illuminates part of the problem with wvw. There are to many long range skills that are in aoe format that are safe(Low risk, high impact skills). To combat that we have passive defenses that carry us into the fray. I agree that nerfing one and not the other would make large group fights less fun. Maybe it is time to look at both?

Also PS, Thank you for being so active and open to discussion lately.

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:We considered the nerfs for passives in WvW. But in the end we were really concerned that the reduced defenses would make large group fights a lot less fun. There are just too many AOEs being flung around.

I'd welcome more discussion though.

Nerf the offensive powercreep then? Since HoT, the game has seen a glut of AoE skills and overloaded skills/traits added. These need to be toned down just like the passive defenses were just toned down in PvP.

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There's really only two classes that are responsible for most of the aoes in the game, necromancer and elementalist, the rest of the classes don't have enough aoes to be considered spammers. SO really you're asking to nerf two classes that in part heavily rely on those aoes to function in a group, and to make up for that their other small aoes or single target skills will have to hit harder. Not to mention less aoes means more siege being used, more open field acs, more wall siege. As long as big groups exist, the need for more aoe will always be present.

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@Smey Jaxx.1386 said:These updates brought freaking miserable lagg, is that any source that can anet fix or reconsidered for the sake of people who play in asia? or at least make an asia server?

Since they're moving to an alliance system maybe they finally could finally have an ocx/sea based server for those players to get a better connection. I doubt they would bother having an off site from their current server farm though.

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@Ruufio.1496 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:We considered the nerfs for passives in WvW. But in the end we were really concerned that the reduced defenses would make large group fights a lot less fun. There are just too many AOEs being flung around.

I'd welcome more discussion though.

So nerf the AOE's like everyone with a skilled mindset has been asking for. All AOE's should be balanced such as the engineer mortar kit is a balanced AOE or how warrior has balanced AOE (hint: warrior has none other than bubble) IMO AOE shouldn't even exist as a thing outside of being centered around the character itself like how warrior greatsword burst is. Necromancer (scourge) is the biggest offender here. Reaper is actually the balanced spec. I've always thought marks were imbalanced too TBH. They should flash before actually triggering like the scourges garbage does currently, since a staff rework isn't practical. As for scourge, it should be overhauled entirely.

Nerf AOE spam. AOE's are fine if they aren't spam - Eg. Meteor Shower. But the spam has to go.

Then reconsider nerfing the passive garbage again.

Nerf this, nerf that, nerf the other. You all are like a broken record.

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:We considered the nerfs for passives in WvW. But in the end we were really concerned that the reduced defenses would make large group fights a lot less fun. There are just too many AOEs being flung around.

I'd welcome more discussion though.

What about a solution where the AoE gets less effective as it hits the 2nd target, reduces on the third target, etc?

Flat nerfs to strong AoEs will just justify bringing about a different AoE for burst, but imagine if some AoEs were built with some skill involved where the center-most target took the full damage, then the next target just outside the middle took a bit less and so forth. Extremely coordinated groups might not lose too much effectiveness with AoE but this would definitely do a decent job at dealing with the 'dead-zones' we have from 20+ AoEs in a choke or something like that.

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@Ruufio.1496 said:So nerf the AOE's like everyone with a skilled mindset has been asking for. All AOE's should be balanced such as the engineer mortar kit is a balanced AOE.

This doesn't strike me as a particularly rational outlook. The amount of enemy AoEs in PvP are no where near comparable to the amount in WvW, so basing what happens in one to balance the other is unreasonable.

I hope you are being sarcastic if you baseline engineer mortar kit as balanced. That suggest to me that you have a unreasonable concept of what a balanced skill is.

@Sykper.6583 said:What about a solution where the AoE gets less effective as it hits the 2nd target, reduces on the third target, etc?

Isn't it more reasonable to simply spread out and not play as one mass into a pool of AoE circles rather than demand they change the game to compensate for bad game play tactics.

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:We considered the nerfs for passives in WvW. But in the end we were really concerned that the reduced defenses would make large group fights a lot less fun. There are just too many AOEs being flung around.

I'd welcome more discussion though.

1.) if passive traits like defy pain are nessecary for wvw to have fun, why so many classe dont have that invuls?2.) scourge and firebrand both dont have that passive traits with millionm years invuls and are the meta in wvw zergfights, so it seems that passive traits are irrelevant for zergfights, but very relevant for small scale, where we have situations like in pvp: 5v5,4v4,3v3 and so on... and if that nerfs are nessecary for pvp, they are also nessecary for similar small scale...

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:We considered the nerfs for passives in WvW. But in the end we were really concerned that the reduced defenses would make large group fights a lot less fun. There are just too many AOEs being flung around.

I'd welcome more discussion though.

A trimmed downed state (7sec then dead) would be worlds better for WvW than nerfing passives at this point. It's too easy for larger numbers to facetank rez. Some players become obnoxiously reliant on the downed state mechanic as a form of defense.

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+1 on reducing the aoes. Its not really fun gameplay and the game really doesnt need that many. Look into reworking some of the aoes we already have and make sure we dont get another scourge next expac. I really do believe having some more single target in the game will add alot more than a bunch of new aoes will.

But ofc its matter of balance between the 2 dont go into pure single target if (and i highly doubt it) you decide on going back on the aoes.

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Funny how we're now having the conversation to nerf aoes when for so long players have been saying to raise the aoe caps to help break up zergs.

Btw not every class has passives to deal with large damage like aoes, figure out why and suggest making changes to those passives that you think should be changed in accordance.

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