Bring PvP passive nerfs to WvW

Hanth.2978 · April 6, 2018

Passive' s are fine anet please don't listen to the people who scream for nerfs constantly and are never happy. PvP and WvW should never ever have identical balance changes.

BeepBoopBop.5403 · April 6, 2018

@"Hanth.2978" said:Passive' s are fine anet please don't listen to the people who scream for nerfs constantly and are never happy. PvP and WvW should never ever have identical balance changes.

Warrior literally has 2x as much uptime of "don't hit me" stances in WvW than they do in PvP. Not bring identical is one thing, but this is too big of a split.

I don't get how anyone even defends passives, getting rewarded for being hit too much or CC'd is dumb. I saw a great suggestion about passives traits adding 1 ammo to the existing utility skill instead of auto proccing, but then there's still the problem of having to run said utility (like Endure Pain) to get the benefit of the 2nd ammo.

Hanth.2978 · April 6, 2018

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:
@"Hanth.2978" said:Passive' s are fine anet please don't listen to the people who scream for nerfs constantly and are never happy. PvP and WvW should never ever have identical balance changes.

Warrior literally has 2x as much uptime of "don't hit me" stances in WvW than they do in PvP. Not bring identical is one thing, but this is too big of a split.

I don't get how anyone even defends passives, getting rewarded for being hit too much or CC'd is dumb. I saw a great suggestion about passives traits adding 1 ammo to the existing utility skill instead of auto proccing, but then there's still the problem of having to run said utility (like Endure Pain) to get the benefit of the 2nd ammo.

Speaking about warrior since you brought it up, warrior needs more survivability in wvw over pvp and if you wvw and frontline then you understand why. Even good warriors get dropped by coordinated groups in wvw if they get properly focused. Passives won't save you.

I don't mind passives going away if that's what anet wants to do. Just make sure and drop damage in return to help balance.

LetoII.3782 · April 6, 2018

@Hanth.2978 said:
@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:
@Hanth.2978 said:Passive' s are fine anet please don't listen to the people who scream for nerfs constantly and are never happy. PvP and WvW should never ever have identical balance changes.

Warrior literally has 2x as much uptime of "don't hit me" stances in WvW than they do in PvP. Not bring identical is one thing, but this is too big of a split.

I don't get how anyone even defends passives, getting rewarded for being hit too much or CC'd is dumb. I saw a great suggestion about passives traits adding 1 ammo to the existing utility skill instead of auto proccing, but then there's still the problem of having to run said utility (like Endure Pain) to get the benefit of the 2nd ammo.

Speaking about warrior since you brought it up, warrior needs more survivability in wvw over pvp and if you wvw and frontline then you understand why. Even good warriors get dropped by coordinated groups in wvw if they get properly focused. Passives won't save you.

Well.. of course they drop when focused.Every class does.Every class should, especially ones dropping 5 figure attacks O.o

BeepBoopBop.5403 · April 6, 2018

@LetoII.3782 said:
@Hanth.2978 said:
@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:
@Hanth.2978 said:Passive' s are fine anet please don't listen to the people who scream for nerfs constantly and are never happy. PvP and WvW should never ever have identical balance changes.

Warrior literally has 2x as much uptime of "don't hit me" stances in WvW than they do in PvP. Not bring identical is one thing, but this is too big of a split.

I don't get how anyone even defends passives, getting rewarded for being hit too much or CC'd is dumb. I saw a great suggestion about passives traits adding 1 ammo to the existing utility skill instead of auto proccing, but then there's still the problem of having to run said utility (like Endure Pain) to get the benefit of the 2nd ammo.

Speaking about warrior since you brought it up, warrior needs more survivability in wvw over pvp and if you wvw and frontline then you understand why. Even good warriors get dropped by coordinated groups in wvw if they get properly focused. Passives won't save you.

Well.. of course they drop when focused.Every class does.Every class should, especially ones dropping 5 figure attacks O.o

Quoted 4 truth

LetoII.3782 · April 6, 2018

But I forgot an apostrophe. My shame is immortalized -_-

Hanth.2978 · April 6, 2018

@LetoII.3782 said:
@Hanth.2978 said:
@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:
@Hanth.2978 said:Passive' s are fine anet please don't listen to the people who scream for nerfs constantly and are never happy. PvP and WvW should never ever have identical balance changes.

Warrior literally has 2x as much uptime of "don't hit me" stances in WvW than they do in PvP. Not bring identical is one thing, but this is too big of a split.

I don't get how anyone even defends passives, getting rewarded for being hit too much or CC'd is dumb. I saw a great suggestion about passives traits adding 1 ammo to the existing utility skill instead of auto proccing, but then there's still the problem of having to run said utility (like Endure Pain) to get the benefit of the 2nd ammo.

Speaking about warrior since you brought it up, warrior needs more survivability in wvw over pvp and if you wvw and frontline then you understand why. Even good warriors get dropped by coordinated groups in wvw if they get properly focused. Passives won't save you.

Well.. of course they drop when focused.Every class does.Every class should, especially ones dropping 5 figure attacks O.o

Every class should and does when countered properly. Glad we agree on that.

Strider Pj.2193 · April 6, 2018

@LetoII.3782 said:
@Hanth.2978 said:
@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:
@Hanth.2978 said:Passive' s are fine anet please don't listen to the people who scream for nerfs constantly and are never happy. PvP and WvW should never ever have identical balance changes.

Warrior literally has 2x as much uptime of "don't hit me" stances in WvW than they do in PvP. Not bring identical is one thing, but this is too big of a split.

I don't get how anyone even defends passives, getting rewarded for being hit too much or CC'd is dumb. I saw a great suggestion about passives traits adding 1 ammo to the existing utility skill instead of auto proccing, but then there's still the problem of having to run said utility (like Endure Pain) to get the benefit of the 2nd ammo.

Speaking about warrior since you brought it up, warrior needs more survivability in wvw over pvp and if you wvw and frontline then you understand why. Even good warriors get dropped by coordinated groups in wvw if they get properly focused. Passives won't save you.

Well.. of course they drop when focused.Every class does.Every class should, especially ones dropping 5 figure attacks O.o

Amen brother oil die-er!!

Voltekka.2375 · April 7, 2018

@apharma.3741 said:
@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:We considered the nerfs for passives in WvW. But in the end we were really concerned that the reduced defenses would make large group fights a lot less fun. There are just too many AOEs being flung around.
I'd welcome more discussion though.

I echo what many other players are saying, maybe the problem is that AoE damage is getting too common and that should be a target for toning down.

I have no problem with a powerful effect so long as it is balanced by having a long cast or cool down or some other significant down side, the problem is cool downs have been getting shorter and shorter across the board, it’s time they went up, that includes defensive cool downs too as well as some of the excessive support on firebrands and their tomes.

Also any chance on addressing ranged damage doing so much damage? A ranger can hit you for 4500 damage at over 1500 range, don’t you think this is a bit high for an auto attack at a range many would find it hard to escape? Likewise hammer bolt and puncture shot (to a lesser extent) also do far too much damage for an auto attack at range.

Edit: not entirely on topic but I would much prefer WvW and PvP balance to be the same, it makes your job easier as you only have 1 skill split and it makes it easier for your players as they get more consistency in the behaviour of skills and traits. Generally if something is too strong in PvP it’s usually too strong in WvW too and vice versa or a change for one mode is usually not going to adversely affect its performance in the other mode.

Funny. I remember scourge f1-f5 cooldowns getting higher after Last balance patch. Yet People whine about scourge a lot even after that nerf. AoE in 50 vs 50 is expected to be highly used, thats logical

Voltekka.2375 · April 7, 2018

@Hanth.2978 said:
@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:
@Hanth.2978 said:Passive' s are fine anet please don't listen to the people who scream for nerfs constantly and are never happy. PvP and WvW should never ever have identical balance changes.

Warrior literally has 2x as much uptime of "don't hit me" stances in WvW than they do in PvP. Not bring identical is one thing, but this is too big of a split.

I don't get how anyone even defends passives, getting rewarded for being hit too much or CC'd is dumb. I saw a great suggestion about passives traits adding 1 ammo to the existing utility skill instead of auto proccing, but then there's still the problem of having to run said utility (like Endure Pain) to get the benefit of the 2nd ammo.

Speaking about warrior since you brought it up, warrior needs more survivability in wvw over pvp and if you wvw and frontline then you understand why. Even good warriors get dropped by coordinated groups in wvw if they get properly focused. Passives won't save you.

I don't mind passives going away if that's what anet wants to do. Just make sure and drop damage in return to help balance.

More survivability? The warrior is the only class that can take a full enemy blob head-on to cast winds, and get back to its own zerg.

apharma.3741 · April 7, 2018

@Voltekka.2375 said:
@apharma.3741 said:
@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:We considered the nerfs for passives in WvW. But in the end we were really concerned that the reduced defenses would make large group fights a lot less fun. There are just too many AOEs being flung around.
I'd welcome more discussion though.

I echo what many other players are saying, maybe the problem is that AoE damage is getting too common and that should be a target for toning down.

I have no problem with a powerful effect so long as it is balanced by having a long cast or cool down or some other significant down side, the problem is cool downs have been getting shorter and shorter across the board, it’s time they went up, that includes defensive cool downs too as well as some of the excessive support on firebrands and their tomes.

Also any chance on addressing ranged damage doing so much damage? A ranger can hit you for 4500 damage at over 1500 range, don’t you think this is a bit high for an auto attack at a range many would find it hard to escape? Likewise hammer bolt and puncture shot (to a lesser extent) also do far too much damage for an auto attack at range.

Edit: not entirely on topic but I would much prefer WvW and PvP balance to be the same, it makes your job easier as you only have 1 skill split and it makes it easier for your players as they get more consistency in the behaviour of skills and traits. Generally if something is too strong in PvP it’s usually too strong in WvW too and vice versa or a change for one mode is usually not going to adversely affect its performance in the other mode.

Funny. I remember scourge f1-f5 cooldowns getting higher after Last balance patch. Yet People whine about scourge a lot even after that nerf. AoE in 50 vs 50 is expected to be highly used, thats logical

There’s a difference between highly used and spammed. AoE was always highly used in 50v50 yet it wasn’t spammed before HoT because the really strong AoE skills had long cool downs, long casts or both. Scourge has neither really on its AoE anymore, it can keep rolling dangerous AoE back to back.

Voltekka.2375 · April 7, 2018

@apharma.3741 said:
@Voltekka.2375 said:
@apharma.3741 said:
@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:We considered the nerfs for passives in WvW. But in the end we were really concerned that the reduced defenses would make large group fights a lot less fun. There are just too many AOEs being flung around.
I'd welcome more discussion though.

I echo what many other players are saying, maybe the problem is that AoE damage is getting too common and that should be a target for toning down.

I have no problem with a powerful effect so long as it is balanced by having a long cast or cool down or some other significant down side, the problem is cool downs have been getting shorter and shorter across the board, it’s time they went up, that includes defensive cool downs too as well as some of the excessive support on firebrands and their tomes.

Also any chance on addressing ranged damage doing so much damage? A ranger can hit you for 4500 damage at over 1500 range, don’t you think this is a bit high for an auto attack at a range many would find it hard to escape? Likewise hammer bolt and puncture shot (to a lesser extent) also do far too much damage for an auto attack at range.

Edit: not entirely on topic but I would much prefer WvW and PvP balance to be the same, it makes your job easier as you only have 1 skill split and it makes it easier for your players as they get more consistency in the behaviour of skills and traits. Generally if something is too strong in PvP it’s usually too strong in WvW too and vice versa or a change for one mode is usually not going to adversely affect its performance in the other mode.

Funny. I remember scourge f1-f5 cooldowns getting higher after Last balance patch. Yet People whine about scourge a lot even after that nerf. AoE in 50 vs 50 is expected to be highly used, thats logical

There’s a difference between highly used and spammed. AoE was always highly used in 50v50 yet it wasn’t spammed before HoT because the really strong AoE skills had long cool downs, long casts or both. Scourge has neither really on its AoE anymore, it can keep rolling dangerous AoE back to back.

Boonspamming AoE is the main problem. This is why such heavy boon AoE corruption exists.

apharma.3741 · April 7, 2018

@Voltekka.2375 said:
@apharma.3741 said:
@Voltekka.2375 said:
@apharma.3741 said:
@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:We considered the nerfs for passives in WvW. But in the end we were really concerned that the reduced defenses would make large group fights a lot less fun. There are just too many AOEs being flung around.
I'd welcome more discussion though.

I echo what many other players are saying, maybe the problem is that AoE damage is getting too common and that should be a target for toning down.

I have no problem with a powerful effect so long as it is balanced by having a long cast or cool down or some other significant down side, the problem is cool downs have been getting shorter and shorter across the board, it’s time they went up, that includes defensive cool downs too as well as some of the excessive support on firebrands and their tomes.

Also any chance on addressing ranged damage doing so much damage? A ranger can hit you for 4500 damage at over 1500 range, don’t you think this is a bit high for an auto attack at a range many would find it hard to escape? Likewise hammer bolt and puncture shot (to a lesser extent) also do far too much damage for an auto attack at range.

Edit: not entirely on topic but I would much prefer WvW and PvP balance to be the same, it makes your job easier as you only have 1 skill split and it makes it easier for your players as they get more consistency in the behaviour of skills and traits. Generally if something is too strong in PvP it’s usually too strong in WvW too and vice versa or a change for one mode is usually not going to adversely affect its performance in the other mode.

Funny. I remember scourge f1-f5 cooldowns getting higher after Last balance patch. Yet People whine about scourge a lot even after that nerf. AoE in 50 vs 50 is expected to be highly used, thats logical

There’s a difference between highly used and spammed. AoE was always highly used in 50v50 yet it wasn’t spammed before HoT because the really strong AoE skills had long cool downs, long casts or both. Scourge has neither really on its AoE anymore, it can keep rolling dangerous AoE back to back.

Boonspamming AoE is the main problem. This is why such heavy boon AoE corruption exists.

It’s a problem yes but boonspam isn’t stopping invulnerability skills being nerfed, there shear number of AoE at all times is, if that was cut back, the invulnerablity can be cut back then they can start addressing the boon spam that’s existed for 3 years. Something has to get toned down first though and ANet already said they’re reluctant to do invulns because of so much AoE damage so it’s best to start with AoEs.

LetoII.3782 · April 7, 2018

Boonspam is unavoidable on some classes. Two choices were available, tone down boons or make the game into a giant clusterkitten of glowy red and yellow....

Aeolus.3615 · April 7, 2018

@"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:We considered the nerfs for passives in WvW. But in the end we were really concerned that the reduced defenses would make large group fights a lot less fun. There are just too many AOEs being flung around.
I'd welcome more discussion though.

That's a issue ive been complaining alot... game ended to be aoe spam everywhere (i have to pay mor atention to aoe that is not being rendered on my screen and pay alot of atention to combat log than visuals on the game itself, it is like some skills rings and effects get lost in some queue to render to players client)... and now u guys have scourge with no line of sight on some skills, that line of sight removal was to much, alot of classes have the same "obstructed" issue when even auto atacking players w/o nothing between them, and u guys have to actually "fix" scourge AOE stuff with a removal of the LoS.... no comments.Issue is balance overral, 1 class that shutdowns all melee builds, no wonder u guys cant tone down some passives :P.....Oh! and make block, absorv, Reflect diferent effects..... having unbockables countering all this is a bit dull to the gameplay as well, this is another thing that creates alot of power creep trough defenses while having unblockables ur forced into some blind spam or burn 2 dodges(in wich will be mostly useless and cant avoid other stuff), and look at new ranges elite trait unblockables uptime that is possible from 1500 range... counting with pet swap as well.TDLR; it is not the AOE spam alone that makes it harder to reduce the passives from some classes, it is a bit a bad QoL on skill validation and gameplay improvements.

I think u guys are still missing to understand what have u done when adding scourge with this design into the game where aoe spam is king.... and increase CD dont do much since it is a class to get 15+ stacked together, only solo'ist scourge was nerfed(1 vs 1 situations)

Hanth.2978 · April 7, 2018

@Voltekka.2375 said:
@Hanth.2978 said:
@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:
@Hanth.2978 said:Passive' s are fine anet please don't listen to the people who scream for nerfs constantly and are never happy. PvP and WvW should never ever have identical balance changes.

Warrior literally has 2x as much uptime of "don't hit me" stances in WvW than they do in PvP. Not bring identical is one thing, but this is too big of a split.

I don't get how anyone even defends passives, getting rewarded for being hit too much or CC'd is dumb. I saw a great suggestion about passives traits adding 1 ammo to the existing utility skill instead of auto proccing, but then there's still the problem of having to run said utility (like Endure Pain) to get the benefit of the 2nd ammo.

Speaking about warrior since you brought it up, warrior needs more survivability in wvw over pvp and if you wvw and frontline then you understand why. Even good warriors get dropped by coordinated groups in wvw if they get properly focused. Passives won't save you.

I don't mind passives going away if that's what anet wants to do. Just make sure and drop damage in return to help balance.

More survivability? The warrior is the only class that can take a full enemy blob head-on to cast winds, and get back to its own zerg.

As I said before warriors who get focused never make it to the zerg or die before they make it back.

DeadlySynz.3471 · April 7, 2018

@Hanth.2978 said:
@Voltekka.2375 said:
@Hanth.2978 said:
@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:
@Hanth.2978 said:Passive' s are fine anet please don't listen to the people who scream for nerfs constantly and are never happy. PvP and WvW should never ever have identical balance changes.

Warrior literally has 2x as much uptime of "don't hit me" stances in WvW than they do in PvP. Not bring identical is one thing, but this is too big of a split.

I don't get how anyone even defends passives, getting rewarded for being hit too much or CC'd is dumb. I saw a great suggestion about passives traits adding 1 ammo to the existing utility skill instead of auto proccing, but then there's still the problem of having to run said utility (like Endure Pain) to get the benefit of the 2nd ammo.

Speaking about warrior since you brought it up, warrior needs more survivability in wvw over pvp and if you wvw and frontline then you understand why. Even good warriors get dropped by coordinated groups in wvw if they get properly focused. Passives won't save you.

I don't mind passives going away if that's what anet wants to do. Just make sure and drop damage in return to help balance.

More survivability? The warrior is the only class that can take a full enemy blob head-on to cast winds, and get back to its own zerg.

As I said before warriors who get focused never make it to the zerg or die before they make it back.

Completely untrue; this is what happens when a zerg focuses a warrior, this is what they see;

0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, block, block, block, block, block, block, block, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0,0,0

Rinse and repeat. That should not be allowed to fly under any circumstance. There are many things that should be removed not only from the warrior, but this is one of them.

Euryon.9248 · April 8, 2018

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:
@Hanth.2978 said:
@Voltekka.2375 said:
@Hanth.2978 said:
@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:
@Hanth.2978 said:Passive' s are fine anet please don't listen to the people who scream for nerfs constantly and are never happy. PvP and WvW should never ever have identical balance changes.