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KDR Activity at an all-time low outside NA


Tiawal.2351
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ArenaNet, please check the numbers. There aren't enough players. No reason to log in outside of about 2-3 hours of NA evening. Capture objectives means nothing and is very boring. Merge all activity into a single tier and activate just 1 map, add more maps if more players log in, do anything, but quick.

The fun is gone, and was so much fun once - the fighting, for something worth fighting for. Thanks for that. It's very sad that now it is over. Maybe you don't know, but that's why many of us still log in, look around, and log out saddened. Your stats can't show that: there was ONE thing you did well, and wasn't PPT, but the fights.

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@Tiawal.2351 said:ArenaNet, please check the numbers. There aren't enough players. No reason to log in outside of about 2-3 hours of NA evening. Capture objectives means nothing and is very boring. Merge all activity into a single tier and activate just 1 map, add more maps if more players log in, do anything, but quick.

The fun is gone, and was so much fun once - the fighting, for something worth fighting for. Thanks for that. It's very sad that now it is over. Maybe you don't know, but that's why many of us still log in, look around, and log out saddened. Your stats can't show that: there was ONE thing you did well, and wasn't PPT, but the fights.

Which would place NA with huge queues? Why is this a good idea?

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@Strider Pj.2193 said:

Which would place NA with huge queues? Why is this a good idea?

NA could stay as it is, limited to the skirmish that is centered around NA evening. After that, all could be redirected to a single tier and single map, though not even NA covers all 4 maps, except reset.

The upcoming alliance system does nothing to fix non-NA coverage. Looks like WvW can't have a 24/7 system outside NA timezone anymore, not enough players, so limit it to that single skirmish and add something separated from NA scoring to cover the rest of the time. If not, WvW will stay dead 90% of time.

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@Tiawal.2351 said:

Which would place NA with huge queues? Why is this a good idea?

NA could stay as it is, limited to the skirmish that is centered around NA evening. After that, all could be redirected to a single tier and single map, though not even NA covers all 4 maps, except reset.

The upcoming alliance system does nothing to fix non-NA coverage. Looks like WvW can't have a 24/7 system outside NA timezone anymore, not enough players, so limit it to that single skirmish and add something separated from NA scoring to cover the rest of the time. If not, WvW will stay dead 90% of time.

Have you considered moving to an EU server then?

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@"geist.9173" said:NA worked hard to get rid of most of their sea and eu presence in the last years. Sucks, but you may thank your server "council" and general behaviour on NA for that.

This is just not true. SEA, EU, and OCX have always been at a premium. Servers have begged, borrowed, and stolen to get these times covered. Many ended up on just a few servers that caused the enjoyment to go away. Not fun when one server has 4 large SEA guilds and their opponents have a handful of PuGs at best.

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ANet already has plans to restructure how worlds are generated, how match ups are made, how player activity is measured, how activity is used to balance match ups. Does the OP think that ANet should drop those plans in favor of "dropping all servers and merging everyone into a single tier"? How would that work on Fridays, Saturdays at reset, when there are already long queues?

More importantly, how would it actually improve the fights during off-peak hours? Are they suddenly going to decide, "oh hey, I couldn't join those WvWarriors on other worlds before, but now that we're all crammed into the same three worlds in one tier, we can just start a guild and raid together during off peak."

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The initial stacking was caused by shilling from individuals with a noncompetitive goal of becoming the strongest (fattest) server and naturally with the typical sales speech of random what it can become. This shilling drive guilds with little voice of their own to stack on few individual servers. As time goes on, many guilds that initially refused to follow the shill blindly gave up under the pressure of overwhelming blobs or boring ktraining due to low rank server which caused by the unbalance coverage which again caused by the initial stacking.

Under this stacking and destacking. Newbies join empty server, lost and forgotten, they quit. People that fought the overwhelming blob and refuse to stack up too eventually quit. People that keep doing boring ktrain and refuse to stack up, quit too. This accelerate the decline of populations that most people cannot see, because all they can see is what they have then and not what they will have in the future. Still, people continues to repeat this self destructive cycle for short term gain. Also, let's not forget about all the self-proclaimed server leaders or authority or whatever they think they are, whose actions too accelerate the decline of WvW.

Off hours is dying breed, period. I don't ever see anyone talking about gw2 in my country now anyway. Players killed the balance, anet fails to put restrictions to contain the damage. This is why I called for blowing up servers years before, I know this will happen and be prepared for it but too bad, many think it is still far off.

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@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:Does the OP think that ANet should drop those plans in favor of "dropping all servers and merging everyone into a single tier"? How would that work on Fridays, Saturdays at reset, when there are already long queues?

More importantly, how would it actually improve the fights during off-peak hours? "

Keeping "prime time" (NA & EU evenings) as they are (or rather will be after alliances, which is a much needed change). This is about the rest of the time, when all players can fit in a single tier...

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@"SkyShroud.2865" said:

Off hours is dying breed, period. I don't ever see anyone talking about gw2 in my country now anyway. Players killed the balance, anet fails to put restrictions to contain the damage.

It is indeed. I don't blame anyone though, not even Anet, but someone has to find a solution. It is unfair to those players who (would) play in these time zones, beyond the fact that it is also unfair to those NA players who still care about PPT (because a "win" is decided by empty map back cap).

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@Tiawal.2351 said:

@"SkyShroud.2865" said:

Off hours is dying breed, period. I don't ever see anyone talking about gw2 in my country now anyway. Players killed the balance, anet fails to put restrictions to contain the damage.

It is indeed. I don't blame anyone though, not even Anet, but someone has to find a solution. It is unfair to those players who (would) play in these time zones, beyond the fact that it is also unfair to those NA players who still care about PPT (because a "win" is decided by empty map back cap).

If things go through as expected, filling one tier will allow for that tiers worlds to dominate.

Likely what will happen is alliances will pull in groups of these players to cover their off hours. Those looking for fights, will join other alliances to balance that to get fights. Those looking just to win will move and stack.

It would appear that the initial suggestion would close down three tiers every non NA time frame. The fourth tier would be allowed to play. So if I am on one of the other three, what do I do? Contribute to a different area?

Or is the suggestion to reset everything every skirmish... which is EOTM.

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@Tiawal.2351 said:

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:Does the OP think that ANet should drop those plans in favor of "dropping all servers and merging everyone into a single tier"? How would that work on Fridays, Saturdays at reset, when there are already long queues?

More importantly, how would it actually improve the fights during off-peak hours? "

Keeping "prime time" (NA & EU evenings) as they are (or rather will be after alliances, which is a much needed change). This is about the rest of the time, when all players can fit in a single tier...

And how exactly can this be accomplished? If I start playing in prime time and end in off-prime, how does that affect the match up for me? What about people who aren't on at the same time each day, are they forced to be in different match ups?

And since you already on board with the Restructuring (in theory at least), why wouldn't you want to wait to see how that will play out? If/when it happens, it's going to cause massive changes in player behavior, including how often and how much people play, who plays, and so on. So whatever stats ANet has now are going to be all-but-useless to use to determine what constitutes too-little participation in the new regime.

And most importantly, ANet's already said that they want to set things up, if it's at all possible, so that match ups are reasonably even throughout each day and each week. That could include stacking more primarily-off-peak guilds in one match up and fewer in another. Or in other words, it's already on the table to consider when people play.

In short, let's give ANet a chance to actually present a plan before we start claiming that the plan needs to be adjusted.

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@Strider Pj.2193 said:It would appear that the initial suggestion would close down three tiers every non NA time frame. The fourth tier would be allowed to play. So if I am on one of the other three, what do I do? Contribute to a different area?

Or is the suggestion to reset everything every skirmish... which is EOTM.

It's not really a suggestion (more like a late warning), I don't know enough about their match-up related parts of the software, and what would be possible to be changed with the least resources and in the shortest time.Maybe there can't be any solution because many reasons. What that means is clear, it's already there in numbers.If it's not fun less and less players will do it, and this game mode is all about players.

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@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:And since you already on board with the Restructuring (in theory at least), why wouldn't you want to wait to see how that will play out?And most importantly, ANet's already said that they want to set things up, if it's at all possible, so that match ups are reasonably even throughout each day and each week. That could include stacking more primarily-off-peak guilds in one match up and fewer in another. Or in other words, it's already on the table to consider when people play.

In short, let's give ANet a chance to actually present a plan before we start claiming that the plan needs to be adjusted.

I don't know if the "plan needs to be adjusted", just what it is out there at moment: very few players left.

Anet can't do it faster, but at least they keep us updated, just like in this posthttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/34400/wvw-work-in-progress#latestwhich is unusual, and a welcome change. Only if we had these years ago.

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@Tiawal.2351 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:It would appear that the initial suggestion would close down three tiers every non NA time frame. The fourth tier would be allowed to play. So if I am on one of the other three, what do I do? Contribute to a different area?

Or is the suggestion to reset everything every skirmish... which is EOTM.

It's not really a suggestion (more like a late warning), I don't know enough about their match-up related parts of the software, and what would be possible to be changed with the least resources and in the shortest time.Maybe there can't be any solution because many reasons. What that means is clear, it's already there in numbers.If it's not fun less and less players will do it, and this game mode is all about players.

Fair enough. You are not alone in the concern for 'off hours' people as if they have no one to compete with, they will continue to get bored and leave.

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You wrote:

Merge all activity into a single tier and activate just 1 map, add more maps if more players log in, do anything, but quick.That proposes a change to the current plan. Are you saying you no longer think that ANet needs to stop what they are doing and act quickly?

Of course there are fewer players out there, because the game is 5.5 years old now. Games always lose players. The question is whether there are proportionally fewer in WvW than in other modes, whether those who left recently would come back if something changed (and if so, what), whether those thinking of leaving won't if something changes (and it's probably not the same something).

And they have been keeping us updated, with what little information they have.

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@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:Are you saying you no longer think that ANet needs to stop what they are doing and act quickly?

I think that they should act quickly, that it is already late...

I'm sorry for every confusion resulted from OP. Wasn't meant to provide a final proposal on HOW to solve that problem, because I don't have enough data for that. I know the game from the player side, I understand it well, but that's not enough. I believe that we, as players, could provide valuable input to Anet, but without the knowledge that only the dev team has, we can't have a final say on HOW to proceed, beyond pros & cons of every variant.

I don't think they should stop on working on that alliance system, though that will likely need multiple changes & improvements, but it's really the last hope for WvW, and cannot fail.

I was hoping for a more immediate and temporary solution to this drastic drop in activity, to contain the problem, until the upcoming system is ready (could be few months till done). I don't know if this is possible, or anything can be done or not -- likely not.

Without making threats, I just sadly admit it, that I cannot play this WvW, as it is, most of the time, because I'm not interested in using siege or the empty objective cap, if there are no challenging fights involved. It's nothing tragic though, there are many other fun things to do in life, not just other games, but the initial post was my way of saying to WvW: "I miss the fun you once had, I wish good things would never end"

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Activity KDR could be down for many reasons, guilds could have been taking the week off, people could have taken the week off to prepare for sab, who knows, just merging servers isn't going to solve the issue if it's beyond that. I've noticed lately going through various tiers that players are fighting less, cowering in structures more, sitting on siege more, if they're doing those things all day all week then obviously activity kdr will drop, doesn't necessarily mean population has dropped that much(but yes wvw loses more players than it gains over time).

But the off hours people also kinda brought this on themselves by super stacking certain servers and refusing to spread out, then they faced servers that had no coverage to match them and got bored and left. Even the NA side which did this have spread out over other servers multiple times, not perfectly but there's only one superstack server anymore and it's filled with pve pugs.

They're already working on a new system, there's no stop gap in between as the links were already that stop gap.

P.S I think it's been a mistake to show actual kdr numbers, should have left it hidden.

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Just because you don't like it, OP, doesn't mean no-one likes it. Outside of NA/EU evenings there's plenty going on. It may not be reflected in KDR but that doesn't mean it isn't happening. No reason ANet should make huge changes to facilitate your particular, favored playstyle - not that they would anyway.

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Idk strm on hod finds stuff to fight during sea.

We go out and attack stuffPeople attack our stuffPeople defendWe defendWe get crushedWe crushWe have back and forth fightsAnd on the rare occasion when there is truly no resistance we end raid early, logoff/pve

The last time I saw a truly/memorable dead wvw was late night, back when their were no server links. I could flip every camp and sentry on a borderland with zero contest. Try that today and post the picture here for us.

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@Celsith.2753 said:

Fair enough. You are not alone in the concern for 'off hours' people as if they have no one to compete with, they will continue to get bored and leave.

I don't see how this a problem. They stack together on a few servers and avoid having to fight anyway.

Kind of agree. It has always been just a few dominant servers in offhours, especially OCX and SEA. When you have 5-6 SEA guilds on one server then it's no wonder that they get bored. If they just would have spread out so there were people to fight then perhaps it wouldn't have played out this way.

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