Feedback on the State of the Mesmer [merged]

[Eddbopkins.2630]

@Yukio blaster.9082 said:

@Eddbopkins.2630 said:Wow if you are having problems with one of the classes with the most in combative options in the game you need to pick another class....no class in the game has what mesmer has. Invulns, 12seconds evade sword skill, invis, mobility, stun brake on dodge, 10 secs staff teleport to stay outa mele range more then enough stun brakers. If you are having problema on mesmer then meser ismt the class for u...i suggest you play another class for a while and see how they do againsts your fabled weak mes.

I main fa ele and confusion is broken af......there needs to be an icd on it so it doesnt tick immediately after one another. As a fa ele when i go to air I, self hurt my self with atleast 3 ticks that take more then 1/2 my life. Then when i go to cleanse it with cleansing fire i hurt my self again hecause the damageing portion of cleansing fire happens 1st so i cant even clear the confusion without it hitting me for an absurd amount...when i see a condi mes running my way its either run or run. No point in fighting something that appears on ur screen every 2 seconds and dissapears, no point in fighting something you cant even tartget 3/4 of the time b.c of the constant invis and clone production.

luck you to have all the time to think about condi cleansing cos i don't have it when a fa ele burst me i'm insta downed .and who's saying i have problems with mesmer!!! it's the Anet planing to rework the mesmer that what i'm afraid from cos they may destroy it the same thing about condition damage from weapon skills and the shatters if they nerf them the condi chrono or core will became not viable at all when they already aren't a good chose compered to power and the condi mirage well be in the current situation of the condi chrono or core when basacly no decent player is playing them in any game mode was it sPVP or wvw or PVE raids/fractals .You as a ELE have many evade skill and invul with many combo fields for you and your teammates why you don't question that too or because it's your class .

With the so called ele 1shot is more like ele 3-6 shot. Also theres no sneak attacking with it like u can with stealth. You can absolutely dodge then go stealth n the ele is rendered ussless waiting for you the invisable meamer with ur invisable clones to pop on it. Like comeon man. You got to be jokeing.

[Dreams.3128]

Inb4 Holosmith become trash bin tier like scrapper.

You know, I take my comment back. I /hope/ mirage and scourge gets buffed again, so if Holosmith, and somehow core Engie (because they always get some kind of off-handed nerf listening to half of community that probably doesn't know Engie outside of mines and elixir s) becomes even more irrelevant I can laugh at the QQ threads for another three months.

[Searven.4820]

Didnt bother reading all that bs. But PLEASE ANET nerf the fuck out of mirage. I ONLY PLAY MES for 5 years already and i hate that cancer spec. Its soo fucking easy to stack conf its retareded...

[Kondor.2904]

People talk so much about mirage being op/king of 1v1s, and we have yet to see real proofs of those statements. Mirage has certain op traits which everyone agrees with. But before saying that only GODS themselves can use it to the absolutely top level and become unbeatable, can you show us some vods of those gods who destroy everyone in 1v1s and faceroll all the fights they are in ? Please ? Warrior is probably the only class that is being so to say countered by mirage (partly cause they share the same role). So if you get destroyed by a class trying to facetank whatever is in front of you, don't come here and yell about this class being op. Please give us real evidence first. Oh yeah and quick note, that "top player vs average player" doesn't count. Bring some "top player vs top player". If you don't have this, then let's be honest, there is nothing to speculate about. 20+ stacks of confusion, top kek, perma evades, seems legit bois.

[Sylosis.7125]

Nothing wrong with Mirage it has its counters, its not OP. In my opinion all classes shouldnt be balanced, but have a role.
Classes should be weaker vs some classes/builds and stronger vs others. I see people dying to mirage only because they didnt cleanse fast enough, didnt dodge or had cd's that they used or wasted. And if any spellbreaker loses to a mirage in a duel they should uninstall game.

[Vagrant.7206]

@"Kondor.2904" said:People talk so much about mirage being op/king of 1v1s, and we have yet to see real proofs of those statements. Mirage has certain op traits which everyone agrees with. But before saying that only GODS themselves can use it to the absolutely top level and become unbeatable, can you show us some vods of those gods who destroy everyone in 1v1s and faceroll all the fights they are in ? Please ? Warrior is probably the only class that is being so to say countered by mirage (partly cause they share the same role). So if you get destroyed by a class trying to facetank whatever is in front of you, don't come here and yell about this class being op. Please give us real evidence first. Oh yeah and quick note, that "top player vs average player" doesn't count. Bring some "top player vs top player". If you don't have this, then let's be honest, there is nothing to speculate about. 20+ stacks of confusion, top kek, perma evades, seems legit bois.

You do know how the search bar on YouTube works, yes?

[Daishi.6027]

If you nerf condi: Druid, Weaver, and maybe SB should be able to bunk it. While Holo, Thief, and meditation Guard/DH can pressure it.

Firebrand is pretty alright vs condi mirage due to the difference of easily accessible cleanse, but would still die to power mirage.

[Aridon.8362]

Relax an Anet dev clearly and boldly stated that the changes for mesmer will be exciting on the Feb 6 patch.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

Wall of text incoming... Just my 2 cents as a new Mirage player, thats all

I recently picked up Mirage (maybe 3ish weeks ago now) and have fought every class and specialization (WvW/PvP and dueling in our own guild arena)

Hardest match ups for me (with my build anyway) is Holo, quick Daredevils, and other Mirages (with my inexperience, this one isnt a surprise to me). I have little condi clears (torch only, however only 1 condi and I do not run Elusive Mind, but Infinite Horizon. IMO wasting a dodge for a stun breaker/1 condi cleanse isnt worth losing the good condi applications of the clones).

I come from Druid/Daredevil/Vanilla Engi (condi)

Where I dont have any condi clears (really) I rely on my evades and the 1/2 short stealth abilities (torch and Signet of Midnight...which I contemplated between that and Signet of Domination). Any condis I get I have to eat. If a scourge gets 1/2 a condi burst on me, typically i wont survive (where as other classes have better condi clears and have a better chance).

I love the amount of evades I have as I love to mess with my opponents mind. I still need to learn to shatter more, however I find the condis that I can put on are usually cleaned fast enough that I have to stall out until my better abilities are off CD.

That being said, Mirage has taught me how to prepare and is a class that gives me time (thanks to evades) to study my opponent and learn their rotation and what to watch out for (still a work in progress) and gives me the tools to achieve it.

Its not often I get my burns off and I agree that the stacks of confusion I can put off is a bit strong, however with what the typical mirage gives up (semi-decent condi clears for starters in a condi filled world and needs to pick stun break vs damage via 1 trait (and possibly be super susceptible to stun locks) its not that OP.

PoF has its fair share of unbalanced classes (to avoid an argument I am not going to state any), however condi Mirage isn't near the top. We are still squish (so we need mobility) and when not playing DPS, we only poop out 2/3 damaging condis, which can technically be easily cleared if you are prepared or smart (this is where l2p comes in). We are not even close to the strongest condi damaging class, but the misconception of it is due to me doing what I can and trying to keep you focused on me instead of your health or condi bar. Any decent player knows how to watch for this and I make quite of few "balls to the wall" plays and hope it works out (50/50 that it does so far)

Technically we could say its a L2P to fight vs any class or any build really. Took me a while to learn to fight vs spellbreakers and druids. Coming from a daredevil player, I have to think faster as a Mirage to get the same job done. Mind you it is nice to see the condi stacks if I can get them to focus on me (or where I could be) instead of their health. Its funny to see someone, full of confusion try to spam skills to try to attack you when stealthed and they essentially down themselves because they just want you down lol. (Again, if you are a smart fighter and have L2P'd then you would know how to micromanage your health in relation to condis...if you have 11 confusion and 2-3 torment, stop attacking and just try to be mobile so you take the least # of damage possible...these condis only hurt if you dont know how they work...couldn't tell ya how many times I had to re-position myself and due to stacks or torment I had to stop moving, or if I have confusion I had to stop hitting my evades and waited them out...ya know...L2P vs condis)

TL;DRMirage OP = Not closeCould it be balanced better = Of course, every PoF class needs to be balanced in some way/shape/or form. (Hell I played scourge for a while and that takes less skill to achieve the same result and even in a bigger AoE and faster,lol)

[Khaliel.3918]

@Yukio blaster.9082 said:

• The one shot core gard .

Anet's reaction when reading this: True Shot damage reduced by 25% and cooldown increased by 4 seconds.

[Yukio blaster.9082]

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@"Kondor.2904" said:People talk so much about mirage being op/king of 1v1s, and we have yet to see real proofs of those statements. Mirage has certain op traits which everyone agrees with. But before saying that only GODS themselves can use it to the absolutely top level and become unbeatable, can you show us some vods of those gods who destroy everyone in 1v1s and faceroll all the fights they are in ? Please ? Warrior is probably the only class that is being so to say countered by mirage (partly cause they share the same role). So if you get destroyed by a class trying to facetank whatever is in front of you, don't come here and yell about this class being op. Please give us real evidence first. Oh yeah and quick note, that "top player vs average player" doesn't count. Bring some "top player vs top player". If you don't have this, then let's be honest, there is nothing to speculate about. 20+ stacks of confusion, top kek, perma evades, seems legit bois.

You do know how the search bar on YouTube works, yes?

So you too! then go bring the prof he asked for !! top players vs top players and show me how mesmer crash everyone. i was watching the wisha(rank 1 eu and best mesmer in gw2) stream and he was dueling with zan who destroyed misha over and over again till the point that misha said "i can't with this fight untill i play total kitten and run over the place", sadlly misha removed the old videos on his stream , and that why misha swapped to engi cos it's soooooooooooooo oop and he is rank 1 now in EU the engi is totaly 100% broken not because he has a lot of dpc from the foton forge but because of the dodges damage who surly need to be nerfed .

[Yukio blaster.9082]

@Aridon.8362 said:Relax an Anet dev clearly and boldly stated that the changes for mesmer will be exciting on the Feb 6 patch.

like the old changes on the mantra's

[Vagrant.7206]

@Yukio blaster.9082 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@"Kondor.2904" said:People talk so much about mirage being op/king of 1v1s, and we have yet to see real proofs of those statements. Mirage has certain op traits which everyone agrees with. But before saying that only GODS themselves can use it to the absolutely top level and become unbeatable, can you show us some vods of those gods who destroy everyone in 1v1s and faceroll all the fights they are in ? Please ? Warrior is probably the only class that is being so to say countered by mirage (partly cause they share the same role). So if you get destroyed by a class trying to facetank whatever is in front of you, don't come here and yell about this class being op. Please give us real evidence first. Oh yeah and quick note, that "top player vs average player" doesn't count. Bring some "top player vs top player". If you don't have this, then let's be honest, there is nothing to speculate about. 20+ stacks of confusion, top kek, perma evades, seems legit bois.

You do know how the search bar on YouTube works, yes?

So you too! then go bring the prof he asked for !! top players vs top players and show me how mesmer crash everyone. i was watching the wisha(rank 1 eu and best mesmer in gw2) stream and he was dueling with zan who destroyed misha over and over again till the point that misha said "i can't with this fight untill i play total kitten and run over the place", sadlly misha removed the old videos on his stream , and that why misha swapped to engi cos it's soooooooooooooo oop and he is rank 1 now in EU the engi is totaly 100% broken not because he has a lot of dpc from the foton forge but because of the dodges damage who surly need to be nerfed .

I'm just going to ignore the wall of text and give you a link instead:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=condi+mirage

Gems such as these:

[Kondor.2904]

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Yukio blaster.9082 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@"Kondor.2904" said:People talk so much about mirage being op/king of 1v1s, and we have yet to see real proofs of those statements. Mirage has certain op traits which everyone agrees with. But before saying that only GODS themselves can use it to the absolutely top level and become unbeatable, can you show us some vods of those gods who destroy everyone in 1v1s and faceroll all the fights they are in ? Please ? Warrior is probably the only class that is being so to say countered by mirage (partly cause they share the same role). So if you get destroyed by a class trying to facetank whatever is in front of you, don't come here and yell about this class being op. Please give us real evidence first. Oh yeah and quick note, that "top player vs average player" doesn't count. Bring some "top player vs top player". If you don't have this, then let's be honest, there is nothing to speculate about. 20+ stacks of confusion, top kek, perma evades, seems legit bois.

You do know how the search bar on YouTube works, yes?

So you too! then go bring the prof he asked for !! top players vs top players and show me how mesmer crash everyone. i was watching the wisha(rank 1 eu and best mesmer in gw2) stream and he was dueling with zan who destroyed misha over and over again till the point that misha said "i can't with this fight untill i play total kitten and run over the place", sadlly misha removed the old videos on his stream , and that why misha swapped to engi cos it's soooooooooooooo oop and he is rank 1 now in EU the engi is totaly 100% broken not because he has a lot of dpc from the foton forge but because of the dodges damage who surly need to be nerfed .

I'm just going to ignore the wall of text and give you a link instead:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=condi+mirage

Gems such as these:

I thought i clearly pointed out "top players vs top players", why are you showing us rofl stomps of some randoms (wvw ? topkek [2]) bro, i'll give you a hint, you can even use the monthly tourney vods as references, this is where competent teams are playing against competent teams. I can go and cut some clips about 1shot super tripple mantra core power mes where some randoms are getting blown up, does that mean core mes should be nerfed lol ? We are talking facts here. And the fact is that the condi mirage may be overtuned (just like any other PoF spec) due to certain traits, however, is not absolutely op, as people like to mention (like lol one of those ppl said that confusion should not affect aa chains lol). Disagree ? Bring up facts (competent player vs competent player) or don't talk kitten here. (The guy above btw gave you a good reference in terms of holo vs mirage).

[Taltevus.3289]

@"Yukio blaster.9082" said:Stop saying that Mirage is OP cos this is stupid and this is why:

1. Mirage can't hold a point.
2. Mirage can't one shot.
3. It's more or less like a thief good in roaming and +1 but slower than a thief only can compete with a thief if you play sword and if so the condi damage is minor.
4. The good skills have long couldown's like torch 1 and 2 and torch 1 is so ez to be evaded with the sound effect so all you need to do is to wait 2.5sec and dodge or just move away especially the mesmer is slower than chrono(+25% speed).
5. The only problem is that mirage is all around cos it's the most fun class to play was it in pvp or pve and mirage is good vs core builds in general but not the SD thief(so much evades and free teleports and spam-able unblockable ).
6. Torment is not a good condi however the only good condi a mesmer can do is confusion forcing the high lvl players to disengage so they don't suicide using skills however the stupid players keep fighting and die and blame mirage for being op when the only problem is him being stupid ,so if you remove the confusion damage the condi mesmer in general gonna be useless and everyone gonna swap to power chrono if they are die-hard mesmers or just change the class .

and i will list here the real broken classes:

• The one shot power ele .
• The one shot core gard .
• Druid so much damage from the pets and so much heal and can hold a point vs 2
• S/D thief with the spam-able unblockable with 5k+ damage with crits with an evade frame what more you can ask for.
• P/P thief is op it the best version of deadeye and its not played in high lvl games simply cos they are ashamed to play it cos it's so ez .
• Scourge is lovley corupption is real in huge AOE's and the bariers make the scourge harder to kill more than a reaper if in good hands .
• power rev removed from the list till it show up on the next meta(due the public demand)
• The lovly FB support .
• The cute HOLO.
• The shy one shot power Mesmer (added due the public demand )
• The scary SB with perma resistance and double swing kill.and more.....

Anet is going to "destroy" all of the PoF. Why do people make stupid ass threads like this!? Like, seriously you are the problem with PvPPlayers who don't see that EVERY one of these God Damn Specs is grossly out of line. Players like you that depend on this broken shit.Get over it, ALL OF THE POF SEPCS ARE GOING TO BE BROUGHT IN LINE. PERIOD.

[saerni.2584]

Mirage isn’t so OP it can carry in a team fight. But it can do overly well in 1v1 and can apply large amounts of confusion consistently enough while evading to pose some issues.

Tune down the 1v1 and add in some group utility and it’s fine.

[Yukio blaster.9082]

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Yukio blaster.9082 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@"Kondor.2904" said:People talk so much about mirage being op/king of 1v1s, and we have yet to see real proofs of those statements. Mirage has certain op traits which everyone agrees with. But before saying that only GODS themselves can use it to the absolutely top level and become unbeatable, can you show us some vods of those gods who destroy everyone in 1v1s and faceroll all the fights they are in ? Please ? Warrior is probably the only class that is being so to say countered by mirage (partly cause they share the same role). So if you get destroyed by a class trying to facetank whatever is in front of you, don't come here and yell about this class being op. Please give us real evidence first. Oh yeah and quick note, that "top player vs average player" doesn't count. Bring some "top player vs top player". If you don't have this, then let's be honest, there is nothing to speculate about. 20+ stacks of confusion, top kek, perma evades, seems legit bois.

You do know how the search bar on YouTube works, yes?

So you too! then go bring the prof he asked for !! top players vs top players and show me how mesmer crash everyone. i was watching the wisha(rank 1 eu and best mesmer in gw2) stream and he was dueling with zan who destroyed misha over and over again till the point that misha said "i can't with this fight untill i play total kitten and run over the place", sadlly misha removed the old videos on his stream , and that why misha swapped to engi cos it's soooooooooooooo oop and he is rank 1 now in EU the engi is totaly 100% broken not because he has a lot of dpc from the foton forge but because of the dodges damage who surly need to be nerfed .

I'm just going to ignore the wall of text and give you a link instead:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=condi+mirage

Gems such as these:

Dud are you serious !!!!! the holosmith can do a 800k damage in high plat games or more go watch zan stream or misha when playing HOLO you will be blown away the same thing apply to Scourge 800k damage is nothing to him and i'm talking about high plat legendary games .

[brannigan.9831]

Mirage isn't op and neither is Scourge. The FOTM bandwagon always plays the weakest classes.

[Vagrant.7206]

@Kondor.2904 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Yukio blaster.9082 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Kondor.2904 said:People talk so much about mirage being op/king of 1v1s, and we have yet to see real proofs of those statements. Mirage has certain op traits which everyone agrees with. But before saying that only GODS themselves can use it to the absolutely top level and become unbeatable, can you show us some vods of those gods who destroy everyone in 1v1s and faceroll all the fights they are in ? Please ? Warrior is probably the only class that is being so to say countered by mirage (partly cause they share the same role). So if you get destroyed by a class trying to facetank whatever is in front of you, don't come here and yell about this class being op. Please give us real evidence first. Oh yeah and quick note, that "top player vs average player" doesn't count. Bring some "top player vs top player". If you don't have this, then let's be honest, there is nothing to speculate about. 20+ stacks of confusion, top kek, perma evades, seems legit bois.

You do know how the search bar on YouTube works, yes?

So you too! then go bring the prof he asked for !! top players vs top players and show me how mesmer crash everyone. i was watching the wisha(rank 1 eu and best mesmer in gw2) stream and he was dueling with zan who destroyed misha over and over again till the point that misha said "i can't with this fight untill i play total kitten and run over the place", sadlly misha removed the old videos on his stream , and that why misha swapped to engi cos it's soooooooooooooo oop and he is rank 1 now in EU the engi is totaly 100% broken not because he has a lot of dpc from the foton forge but because of the dodges damage who surly need to be nerfed .

I'm just going to ignore the wall of text and give you a link instead:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=condi+mirage

Gems such as these:

I thought i clearly pointed out "top players vs top players", why are you showing us rofl stomps of some randoms (wvw ? topkek [2]) bro, i'll give you a hint, you can even use the monthly tourney vods as references, this is where competent teams are playing against competent teams. I can go and cut some clips about 1shot super tripple mantra core power mes where some randoms are getting blown up, does that mean core mes should be nerfed lol ? We are talking facts here. And the fact is that the condi mirage may be overtuned (just like any other PoF spec) due to certain traits, however, is not absolutely op, as people like to mention (like lol one of those ppl said that confusion should not affect aa chains lol). Disagree ? Bring up facts (competent player vs competent player) or don't talk kitten here. (The guy above btw gave you a good reference in terms of holo vs mirage).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts

Learn it. Love it. Live it.

You do realize that overtuned is just another word for overpowered, right? It just has a different connotation.

So yes, I do agree that most of the PoF specs are overpowered and overtuned. Firebrand is egregiously powerful when it comes to both tankiness and support. Scourge is ridiculously powerful for area denial and corruption. Holo is overpowered for overall damage (although it is still a glass cannon).

The thing is, a mirage is not only very effective in 1v1s, it can hold (and win) 1v2's and escape from 1v3s while skipping the whole time, when played well. This is the same issue that SB had until it got nerfed. Anything that can hold 1v2 that isn't a bruiser/bunker build (or a nuke who hits hard and fast enough to prevent reaction) and win? That's generally overpowered.

@Yukio blaster.9082 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Yukio blaster.9082 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Kondor.2904 said:People talk so much about mirage being op/king of 1v1s, and we have yet to see real proofs of those statements. Mirage has certain op traits which everyone agrees with. But before saying that only GODS themselves can use it to the absolutely top level and become unbeatable, can you show us some vods of those gods who destroy everyone in 1v1s and faceroll all the fights they are in ? Please ? Warrior is probably the only class that is being so to say countered by mirage (partly cause they share the same role). So if you get destroyed by a class trying to facetank whatever is in front of you, don't come here and yell about this class being op. Please give us real evidence first. Oh yeah and quick note, that "top player vs average player" doesn't count. Bring some "top player vs top player". If you don't have this, then let's be honest, there is nothing to speculate about. 20+ stacks of confusion, top kek, perma evades, seems legit bois.

You do know how the search bar on YouTube works, yes?

So you too! then go bring the prof he asked for !! top players vs top players and show me how mesmer crash everyone. i was watching the wisha(rank 1 eu and best mesmer in gw2) stream and he was dueling with zan who destroyed misha over and over again till the point that misha said "i can't with this fight untill i play total kitten and run over the place", sadlly misha removed the old videos on his stream , and that why misha swapped to engi cos it's soooooooooooooo oop and he is rank 1 now in EU the engi is totaly 100% broken not because he has a lot of dpc from the foton forge but because of the dodges damage who surly need to be nerfed .

I'm just going to ignore the wall of text and give you a link instead:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=condi+mirage

Gems such as these:

Dud are you serious !!!!! the holosmith can do a 800k damage in high plat games or more go watch zan stream or misha when playing HOLO you will be blown away the same thing apply to Scourge 800k damage is nothing to him and i'm talking about high plat legendary games .

I wish I understood what you were on about. It helps if you use punctuation and grammar.

Holos can only do that kind of damage when they have appropriate support from their team (such as a firebrand) and the enemy has insufficient defenses (IE no weakness, no scourge, etc). And even then, the holo is still extremely vulnerable to pressure if the enemy team knows to focus them.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Kondor.2904 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Yukio blaster.9082 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Kondor.2904 said:People talk so much about mirage being op/king of 1v1s, and we have yet to see real proofs of those statements. Mirage has certain op traits which everyone agrees with. But before saying that only GODS themselves can use it to the absolutely top level and become unbeatable, can you show us some vods of those gods who destroy everyone in 1v1s and faceroll all the fights they are in ? Please ? Warrior is probably the only class that is being so to say countered by mirage (partly cause they share the same role). So if you get destroyed by a class trying to facetank whatever is in front of you, don't come here and yell about this class being op. Please give us real evidence first. Oh yeah and quick note, that "top player vs average player" doesn't count. Bring some "top player vs top player". If you don't have this, then let's be honest, there is nothing to speculate about. 20+ stacks of confusion, top kek, perma evades, seems legit bois.

You do know how the search bar on YouTube works, yes?

So you too! then go bring the prof he asked for !! top players vs top players and show me how mesmer crash everyone. i was watching the wisha(rank 1 eu and best mesmer in gw2) stream and he was dueling with zan who destroyed misha over and over again till the point that misha said "i can't with this fight untill i play total kitten and run over the place", sadlly misha removed the old videos on his stream , and that why misha swapped to engi cos it's soooooooooooooo oop and he is rank 1 now in EU the engi is totaly 100% broken not because he has a lot of dpc from the foton forge but because of the dodges damage who surly need to be nerfed .

I'm just going to ignore the wall of text and give you a link instead:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=condi+mirage

Gems such as these:

I thought i clearly pointed out "top players vs top players", why are you showing us rofl stomps of some randoms (wvw ? topkek [2]) bro, i'll give you a hint, you can even use the monthly tourney vods as references, this is where competent teams are playing against competent teams. I can go and cut some clips about 1shot super tripple mantra core power mes where some randoms are getting blown up, does that mean core mes should be nerfed lol ? We are talking facts here. And the fact is that the condi mirage may be overtuned (just like any other PoF spec) due to certain traits, however, is not absolutely op, as people like to mention (like lol one of those ppl said that confusion should not affect aa chains lol). Disagree ? Bring up facts (competent player vs competent player) or don't talk kitten here. (The guy above btw gave you a good reference in terms of holo vs mirage).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts

Learn it. Love it. Live it.

You do realize that overtuned is just another word for overpowered, right? It just has a different connotation.

So yes, I do agree that

most

of the PoF specs are overpowered and overtuned. Firebrand is egregiously powerful when it comes to both tankiness and support. Scourge is ridiculously powerful for area denial and corruption. Holo is overpowered for overall damage (although it is still a glass cannon).

The thing is, a mirage is not only very effective in 1v1s, it can hold (and win) 1v2's and escape from 1v3s while skipping the whole time, when played well. This is the same issue that SB had until it got nerfed. Anything that can hold 1v2 that isn't a bruiser/bunker build (or a nuke who hits hard and fast enough to prevent reaction) and win? That's generally overpowered.

@Yukio blaster.9082 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Yukio blaster.9082 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Kondor.2904 said:

And even then, the holo is still extremely vulnerable to pressure if the enemy team knows to focus them.

In all fairness, anything is extremely vulnerable when an enemy team focuses on 1 person, regardless of class

Just wanted to throw that out there

[Vagrant.7206]

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Kondor.2904 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Yukio blaster.9082 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Kondor.2904 said:People talk so much about mirage being op/king of 1v1s, and we have yet to see real proofs of those statements. Mirage has certain op traits which everyone agrees with. But before saying that only GODS themselves can use it to the absolutely top level and become unbeatable, can you show us some vods of those gods who destroy everyone in 1v1s and faceroll all the fights they are in ? Please ? Warrior is probably the only class that is being so to say countered by mirage (partly cause they share the same role). So if you get destroyed by a class trying to facetank whatever is in front of you, don't come here and yell about this class being op. Please give us real evidence first. Oh yeah and quick note, that "top player vs average player" doesn't count. Bring some "top player vs top player". If you don't have this, then let's be honest, there is nothing to speculate about. 20+ stacks of confusion, top kek, perma evades, seems legit bois.

You do know how the search bar on YouTube works, yes?

So you too! then go bring the prof he asked for !! top players vs top players and show me how mesmer crash everyone. i was watching the wisha(rank 1 eu and best mesmer in gw2) stream and he was dueling with zan who destroyed misha over and over again till the point that misha said "i can't with this fight untill i play total kitten and run over the place", sadlly misha removed the old videos on his stream , and that why misha swapped to engi cos it's soooooooooooooo oop and he is rank 1 now in EU the engi is totaly 100% broken not because he has a lot of dpc from the foton forge but because of the dodges damage who surly need to be nerfed .

I'm just going to ignore the wall of text and give you a link instead:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=condi+mirage

Gems such as these:

I thought i clearly pointed out "top players vs top players", why are you showing us rofl stomps of some randoms (wvw ? topkek [2]) bro, i'll give you a hint, you can even use the monthly tourney vods as references, this is where competent teams are playing against competent teams. I can go and cut some clips about 1shot super tripple mantra core power mes where some randoms are getting blown up, does that mean core mes should be nerfed lol ? We are talking facts here. And the fact is that the condi mirage may be overtuned (just like any other PoF spec) due to certain traits, however, is not absolutely op, as people like to mention (like lol one of those ppl said that confusion should not affect aa chains lol). Disagree ? Bring up facts (competent player vs competent player) or don't talk kitten here. (The guy above btw gave you a good reference in terms of holo vs mirage).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts

Learn it. Love it. Live it.

You do realize that overtuned is just another word for overpowered, right? It just has a different connotation.

So yes, I do agree that

most

of the PoF specs are overpowered and overtuned. Firebrand is egregiously powerful when it comes to both tankiness and support. Scourge is ridiculously powerful for area denial and corruption. Holo is overpowered for overall damage (although it is still a glass cannon).

The thing is, a mirage is not only very effective in 1v1s, it can hold (and win) 1v2's and escape from 1v3s while skipping the whole time, when played well. This is the same issue that SB had until it got nerfed. Anything that can hold 1v2 that isn't a bruiser/bunker build (or a nuke who hits hard and fast enough to prevent reaction) and win? That's generally overpowered.

@Yukio blaster.9082 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Yukio blaster.9082 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Kondor.2904 said:

And even then, the holo is still extremely vulnerable to pressure if the enemy team knows to focus them.

In all fairness, anything is extremely vulnerable when an enemy team focuses on 1 person, regardless of class

Just wanted to throw that out there

Aye, but one person focusing on a holo absurdly reduces their damage potential.

[lethotix.2973]

@Yukio blaster.9082 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Yukio blaster.9082 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@"Kondor.2904" said:People talk so much about mirage being op/king of 1v1s, and we have yet to see real proofs of those statements. Mirage has certain op traits which everyone agrees with. But before saying that only GODS themselves can use it to the absolutely top level and become unbeatable, can you show us some vods of those gods who destroy everyone in 1v1s and faceroll all the fights they are in ? Please ? Warrior is probably the only class that is being so to say countered by mirage (partly cause they share the same role). So if you get destroyed by a class trying to facetank whatever is in front of you, don't come here and yell about this class being op. Please give us real evidence first. Oh yeah and quick note, that "top player vs average player" doesn't count. Bring some "top player vs top player". If you don't have this, then let's be honest, there is nothing to speculate about. 20+ stacks of confusion, top kek, perma evades, seems legit bois.

You do know how the search bar on YouTube works, yes?

So you too! then go bring the prof he asked for !! top players vs top players and show me how mesmer crash everyone. i was watching the wisha(rank 1 eu and best mesmer in gw2) stream and he was dueling with zan who destroyed misha over and over again till the point that misha said "i can't with this fight untill i play total kitten and run over the place", sadlly misha removed the old videos on his stream , and that why misha swapped to engi cos it's soooooooooooooo oop and he is rank 1 now in EU the engi is totaly 100% broken not because he has a lot of dpc from the foton forge but because of the dodges damage who surly need to be nerfed .

I'm just going to ignore the wall of text and give you a link instead:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=condi+mirage

Gems such as these:

Dud are you serious !!!!! the holosmith can do a 800k damage in high plat games or more go watch zan stream or misha when playing HOLO you will be blown away the same thing apply to Scourge 800k damage is nothing to him and i'm talking about high plat legendary game

Your argument for mirage NOT being overtuned is invalid. Just because mirage CAN be hard countered , it doesn't mean they are not op. Mirage can do too much too well. They have great sustain, damage, 1v1 potential, team fight potential, mobility/disengage potential. Your post is actually pretty hilarious because it is actually detrimental to your cause. 90% of the people here are saying mirage is overturned. I would delete the post if I was pro mesmer. A-net will go with popular consensus regardless of the "truth" of the matter. Do you really want a-net to read all the mirage nay sayers?

[ketzer.3158]

@"Ithilwen.1529" said:Mirage has won a few fights and so is thought to be OP. Anytime a Mesmer wins, they are assumed to be OP. Yes, it does require more attention and skill to fight a Mesmer than some other classes.

Sadly, the "exciting changes" may well turn out to be crippling nerfs.

Name one season were mesmer wasn't in the Top3 of classes in GW2? It's always been much too strong. Chrono was absolutely ridiculous in the first three HoT seasons, Mirage is way better than Chrono ever was.

[Arheundel.6451]

@"Ithilwen.1529" said:Mirage has won a few fights and so is thought to be OP. Anytime a Mesmer wins, they are assumed to be OP. Yes, it does require more attention and skill to fight a Mesmer than some other classes.

Sadly, the "exciting changes" may well turn out to be crippling nerfs.

Next week will decide whether or not I will start maining a mesmer as official secondary main and finally delete ele after 6 years of suffering, spitting on the memory of my gw1 ele

[ketzer.3158]

When even Ithilwen can win matches on mesmer, everyone knows what the state of the class is.