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Please make hair unisex.


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@Ardenwolfe.8590 said:So any complaints about 'realism' is pretty much out the window when it comes to something as minor as hairstyles.

Just to keep it in perspective.

If you think about in from the perspective that in the world of Tyria these are all normal things so they are well within the realm of realism and, just like in any culture, particularly cultures as different as the 5 races we can play, it makes sense that they each have their own distinct styles.

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It's hair . . . not the stone tablets brought down from Mount This-Is-Who-I-Am. The whole point of meeting the Pale Tree was to unite the various races to fight a common foe. Over time, it would make sense for the various races to mimic styles they liked from other races. This is not only true in reality, but also in the game.

In the human home instance, there's a human that says, "I wish I had hair like a slyvari." And in the realm where magic can change her appearance? She could and should.

Using your logic, no other races better have tribal tattoos because it culturally belongs to the Pacific Islanders . . . Oops, I mean norn.

I hope you see how ridiculous that argument is now.

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please complaining that it would allow players to have absolutely ridiculous characters, like that wasn't already possible.I'm sorry your immersion is so weak that you lose it anytime you see a pink haired norn, but that's not a reason to not do it.For those who want it, it would give MUCH more versatility. For those who don't. let others enjoy things. It won't make things worse for you since people will still make the same ridiculous characters.

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@"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:It's hair . . . not the stone tablets brought down from Mount This-Is-Who-I-Am. The whole point of meeting the Pale Tree was to unite the various races to fight a common foe. Over time, it would make sense for the various races to mimic styles they liked from other races. This is not only true in reality, but also in the game.

In the human home instance, there's a human that says, "I wish I had hair like a slyvari." And in the realm where magic can change her appearance? She could and should.

Using your logic, no other races better have tribal tattoos because it culturally belongs to the Pacific Islanders . . . Oops, I mean norn.

I hope you see how ridiculous that argument is now.

It was, indeed to unite the races against a common foe, it was not, however, to make them all one race. It's kinda like screaming "We need diversity, so long as everyone's the same".

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@"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:It's hair . . . not the stone tablets brought down from Mount This-Is-Who-I-Am. The whole point of meeting the Pale Tree was to unite the various races to fight a common foe. Over time, it would make sense for the various races to mimic styles they liked from other races. This is not only true in reality, but also in the game.

In the human home instance, there's a human that says, "I wish I had hair like a slyvari." And in the realm where magic can change her appearance? She could and should.

Using your logic, no other races better have tribal tattoos because it culturally belongs to the Pacific Islanders . . . Oops, I mean norn.

I hope you see how ridiculous that argument is now.

My main point was correcting what you referred to as realism within the world of Tyria. The fact that some of us play as you said "talking cats" or "walking plants" doesn't matter because that in the world of Tyria is normal and doesn't make sense as a justification for adding cross over hairstyles. Now to an extent I do agree that they could appreciate one anothers culture or styles now that they're more integrated with one another as I posted previously;

@"Moonlit.6421" said:...Humans could I guess model their hair after some sylvari styles for instance, but some just aren't feasible. Same for how the charr interweave metal into some of their hairstyles for instance. I could see there being a few similar hairstyles modeled in the fashion of another cultures but doubt it would or should go any further....

And something like that I would have no real problem with as it does at least have some reasoning behind it then, its not just "here have this for the sake of having it."

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@Daishi.6027 said:I want the biggest, widest, burly male norn with pink pigtails.

Make it happen A-net! Don't Suppress my expression of self identity!

I want to self identify myself as a meat popsicle.


Anyways, I like the distinction of the races when it comes to the hair, skin pattern, and armor part, though I would like less bikini armor in mmos, as it helps define/reinforce the cultural aspect of each race.

Also I think what moonlite is implying or at least to my understanding where I think he is saying that the hair, tattoos, beard, and any other stuff that is culturally significant, no matter how small, would likely stay with that particular cultural, but people can be inspired to take a particular style of hair, tattoo, bread, or metal bits in hair and transform it into their cultural version of it and there has not been enough time and migration of different races into each other lands within the game to allow them to copy each other. Or I could be wrong of what moonlite had written.

Though it might not happen any time soon as it might be early before a trend takes root especially in societies where they view themselves higher than the others, asura, might see it as a potential threat to social order, char militaristic structure and would assume strict regulations of what to eat, sleep, and wear, while the more curious will try to grow the style out, sylvari, with some other people might be cautious to try out styles as to not be consider culturally insensitive or recovering from scars of old, humans for both and char for latter, and finally some people might not care about other cultural versus their own since they have a more personal connection to latter (norn). Which are the reasons I think in the game you don't see much mixing of the cultural since every capital is very homogeneous.

Also there still seems to be a very distinct of what a male and female is culturally define and that tradition is strong in all of the cultural to probably prevent some other hairstyles becoming interchangeable.

Summary: Hair and other stuff is not interchange between male and female as tradition is very strong in the cultural while cross species style is very slow on the uptake as there has not been a great amount time has passed and migration with capital cities and empires remaining roughly homogeneous in racial population with very little interactions outside beside the multiracial military organization operations, merchants, and lions arch.

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@Ardenwolfe.8590 said:My God . . . it's hair. HAIR. Since when does hair style or choice define a race? Are we really going to go down that rabbit hole?

For one thing it’s different species not different races. And that’s a big difference.

Looking at the one world we do know, hairstyles have historically defined both culture and gender. Even now not many men wear bows or flowers in their hair nor do many women shave their heads. Back when cultural differences were more pronounced cross cultural hairstyles were rare to nonexistent. For example, back then no English man would wear a Japanese male hairstyle and the same was true in reverse.

While the species in Tyria do work together, to some extent, they mostly live in their own cities and on their own racial land and work with members of their own species. They don’t intermingle much with the other sentient species. Where people are that much separated (and each group considers itself to be the superior group) cross cultural styles are going to be rare. Most are going to use their own cultural styles to affirm their group identity.

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Let me bring this into perspective again: The OP is asking for unisex and not races or species or whatever terminology those opposed want to use. Are we also against men having long hair and pigtails and women have bald heads too now? Is that also a problem?

Otherwise, this 'discussion' is moot . . . and very disappointing.

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@Ardenwolfe.8590 said:Let me bring this into perspective again: The OP is asking for unisex and not races or species or whatever terminology those opposed want to use. Are we also against men having long hair and pigtails and women have bald heads too now? Is that also a problem?

Otherwise, this 'discussion' is moot . . . and very disappointing.

Another way to consider it. If male/female unisex is not going to be popular. If cross cultural hairstyles don’t fit the fact that the different species on Tyria live and work separately from each other (and that people that live without much contact with strangers are normally culturally homogeneous). If some cross cultural hairstyles would simply not fit. Then why should ANet do the work (dev time and money) to add these to the game? Instead they should make more culturally distinct hairstyles to make the people fit the world they live in.

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To me it comes down to...

Are these different people on a different planet, mostly getting along with other sentient species but living separately as different cultural groups? Are these different people having their own culture, styles and their own history that’s unique to themselves or are they animated Barbie dolls that we steer across the landscape and we put anything we want on their bodies and heads. When there is no differences between the species except in body shape and size then it all becomes a homogeneous mass. Nothing stands out If everyone can use the same styles and there are no differences between the groups.

@Ardenwolfe.8590 said:

Again, OP, good suggestion and good luck! =)

High fashion magazine always push the extreme. They post pictures for shock value and to create a buzz, not for what you normally see around you.

Let me know when you commonly see hairstyles like that from men walking down the street and shopping in your small towns and then I’ll agree you have a point.

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@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:

Let me know when you commonly see hairstyles like that from men walking down the street and shopping in your small towns and then I’ll agree you have a point.

You mean like the 'man bun'? Yes, I see them all over the place now. I hate them, but yes, saw one guy sporting one yesterday at the vet office. Again, something that was only for women not even a handful of years ago is now a fashion trend. Would you like me to post the YouTube videos too? Quite frankly, I'm surprised you even brought up men with long hair. Isn't that only for women too? That was the thought only twenty-five years ago. And then Fabio made it fashionable. And women with bald heads? I thought that was only for men. And colored hair was only for women, but gee . . . saw some teenaged boy with pink hair yesterday too.

Seriously . . . you're not going to win this one.

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Alot of people enjoy these types of games to be immersed in a fantasy world. Go down to your local bookstore and of the hundreds or thousands of fantasy medieval style books. Find me some that feature a big dude with pink pigtails. how would that same guy fit in the lord of the rings movies, it would destroy any immersion. This game already pushes the envelope in the overtly ridiculous category, but it's tolerable. Why do people have to push their real life agendas in a game? Im not a 6 foot tall plant man, I just play one. Sylvari are like this games version of elves and forest spirit/dryad/nymphs combined. So that's firmly in the realm of a fantasy setting btw. Any way. It's a slippery slope and whether or not it happens, it will just be another thing next month, and so on. More likely to push people away trying to aesthetically please a small amount of people who will play (obviously) with or without it.

It's why I'm all for robust but "limited" character creation. Nothing pushes me away quicker than seeing a bobbleheaded purple skin human with toothpick legs and kayaks for feet. Just saying. That's the road your on. It begins here.

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If > @Ardenwolfe.8590 said:

Let me know when you commonly see hairstyles like that from men walking down the street and shopping in your small towns and then I’ll agree you have a point.

You mean like the 'man bun'? Yes, I see them all over the place now. I hate them, but yes, saw one guy sporting one yesterday at the vet office. Again, something that was only for women not even a handful of years ago is now a fashion trend. Would you like me to post the YouTube videos too? Quite frankly, I'm surprised you even brought up men with long hair. Isn't that only for women too? That was the thought only twenty-five years ago. And then Fabio made it fashionable. And women with bald heads? I thought that was only for men. And colored hair was only for women, but gee . . . saw some teenaged boy with pink hair yesterday too.

Seriously . . . you're not going to win this one.

if there’s no differences then everyone is the same.

I rarely if ever see long hair on men nowadays and I’ve never seen a man bun in my conservative part of the world. It’s more common in the big cities I’m sure, but the big cities aren’t everyone,

As for the world of Tyria we have seen any reason why the different species (not races) would even want to use hairstyles that belong to other species. If they were different races, yeah. But not different species. It’s one thing to argue that members of one species should use cross cultural hairstyles. It’s another for cross species.

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I see no amount of evidence nor proof will make a difference, but for the sake of fantasy?

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/images/thumb/6/64/Aerion_Targaryen.jpg/1500px-Aerion_Targaryen.jpg

The above image is of Aerion Targaryen of Game of Thrones fame. Also, the one below is Daario Naharis also from Game of Thrones as he appears in the books. Yes, that's blue hair, long, with a golden mustache. In that fantasy novel, he also sports flowers and ribbons.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/images/7/7a/Daario_naharis.jpg

As En Vogue once said, "Free your mind and the rest will follow."

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@Ardenwolfe.8590 said:Let me bring this into perspective again: The OP is asking for unisex and not races or species or whatever terminology those opposed want to use. Are we also against men having long hair and pigtails and women have bald heads too now? Is that also a problem?

Otherwise, this 'discussion' is moot . . . and very disappointing.

Why would it not be a problem? Cross-dressers aren't a part of tyrian lore and they are nowhere to be found. If you suddenly change it for the player base then it goes from 0-100 in the craziest sense. Soon there will be thousands of gender confused players running around in a strange world that everyone until now had never been exposed to.

If you wanna cross dress just play a different gendered character, I don't see why this isn't enough to fill a person's fantasy.

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@"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:I see no amount of evidence nor proof will make a difference, but for the sake of fantasy?

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/images/thumb/6/64/Aerion_Targaryen.jpg/1500px-Aerion_Targaryen.jpg

The above image is of Aerion Targaryen of Game of Thrones fame. Also, the one below is Daario Naharis also from Game of Thrones as he appears in the books. Yes, that's blue hair, long, with a golden mustache. In that fantasy novel, he also sports flowers and ribbons.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/images/7/7a/Daario_naharis.jpg

As En Vogue once said, "Free your mind and the rest will follow."

I'm out. ;)

Different fantasy worlds will have different rules that make them internally consistent. Shall we now take all the rules from each fantasy world and blend them into one set? Does the internal rules of the fantasy world of Tyria benefit from adding on the rules of another fantasy world?

No, homogeneity is not a goal for all to strive for.

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