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Balance patch was mainly pointless, meta still the same


Arheundel.6451

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...Basically the meta still the same, didn't really try pvp seriously since 2 seasons ago...sad to see nothing changed. I was grossly misguided in thinking that the devs had a change of heart.I now realize that issues won't be addressed before next expansion launch..that will introduce the same type of issues but with a different "flavour"...this really leave a bad taste in the mouth, I should have stopped playing MMO at GW1...

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@"Arheundel.6451" said:...Basically the meta still the same, didn't really try pvp seriously since 2 seasons ago...sad to see nothing changed. I was grossly misguided in thinking that the devs had a change of heart.I now realize that issues won't be addressed before next expansion launch..that will introduce the same type of issues but with a different "flavour"...this really leave a bad taste in the mouth, I should have stopped playing MMO at GW1...

The meta has changed, there is an overall increase in the diversity of builds used. I see specs like dragonhunter and scrapper making the occasional appearance in ranked matches, sword holo finally has a place, reaper has come back strong, non s/d thief builds are more common, etc. It's not as diverse as I would like (an ideal world), but this is better balance than we've seen in the last two seasons.

The only standout problems IMO are coming from mesmer (because it's generally overpowered) and scourge (because scourge has bad design and needs reworking to be less faceroll-y). Firebrand's boom spam could stand to be toned down, but it's starting to get towards manageable levels.

The following specs/classes could stand more work to make them more viable in PvP:

  • Core Engineer and Scrapper
  • All of Revenant
  • Core Necro
  • All of Ele
  • Core Warrior and Berserker
  • Core Ranger
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Its going o take a lot of pretty drastic changes to change the meta. And to avoid some of the past problems in the process, some classes will have to be practically rebuilt. There is no universe where Anet is willing to do that so they will just use expansions to force the meta to change. So better to stay retired from pvp until the next expansion if its not working for you.

Hopefully they dont do something dumb again like create PvE only specs (cough cough Renegade).

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@Vagrant.7206 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:...Basically the meta still the same, didn't really try pvp seriously since 2 seasons ago...sad to see nothing changed. I was grossly misguided in thinking that the devs had a change of heart.I now realize that issues won't be addressed before next expansion launch..that will introduce the same type of issues but with a different "flavour"...this really leave a bad taste in the mouth, I should have stopped playing MMO at GW1...

The meta has changed, there is an overall increase in the diversity of builds used. I see specs like dragonhunter and scrapper making the occasional appearance in ranked matches, sword holo finally has a place, reaper has come back strong, non s/d thief builds are more common, etc. It's not as diverse as I would like (an ideal world), but this is better balance than we've seen in the last two seasons.

The only standout problems IMO are coming from mesmer (because it's generally overpowered) and scourge (because scourge has bad design and needs reworking to be less faceroll-y). Firebrand's boom spam could stand to be toned down, but it's starting to get towards manageable levels.

The following specs/classes could stand more work to make them more viable in PvP:
  • Core Engineer and Scrapper
  • All of Revenant
  • Core Necro
  • All of Ele
  • Core Warrior and Berserker
  • Core Ranger

Actually core warrior if played right and different playstyle from spellbreaker, which means you can't go far and hold 2 people long enough.

But as a roamer 1vs1 duelist on point I find core warrior superior to spellbreaker.

Maybe in high plat and legendary spellbreaker is still meta, but core warrior is not that bad as it seems, the damage is pretty high almost oneshot with axe burst skill.

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They did 2 good changes

Magi Amulet Removed and Druid dmg ( with MENDER NECK ) drastically reduced, even if a good druid can still solo with that amulet.

But failed in

  • Removing Sand Savant from SPvP ( or entirely rework the whole trait in something else )
  • Lower the damage/survival/movement of Mirage ( both condi and power ).

This patch, however, was definitely better than the average patch.

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Are we playing the same game?The meta has changed a lot, you now see a lot of core Guardians along with support Firebrands and a few DHs here and there, blood magic support Scourges and power Reapers, both Druid bunkers and Soulbeast bruisers, Thieves of all kinds, Mesmers have shifted from power shatter to chaos bunker without power shatter being completely irelevant and the same pattern applies to the rest of the classes with maybe Ele and Rev being the most rare ones.

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@MikeL.8260 said:Are we playing the same game?The meta has changed a lot, you now see a lot of core Guardians along with support Firebrands and a few DHs here and there, blood magic support Scourges and power Reapers, both Druid bunkers and Soulbeast bruisers, Thieves of all kinds, Mesmers have shifted from power shatter to chaos bunker without power shatter being completely irelevant and the same pattern applies to the rest of the classes with maybe Ele and Rev being the most rare ones.

I almost do not see any of the above. I rarely ever see anyone playing guardian dps, rev, or thief other than S/D core. That does not mean the other builds do not work at all, or no one plays them, but the meta is still very limited, and still mostly the same builds. Nothing has changed.

The only thing I have seen more of lately is Reapers. But they almost always suck.

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@otto.5684 said:

@MikeL.8260 said:Are we playing the same game?The meta has changed a lot, you now see a lot of core Guardians along with support Firebrands and a few DHs here and there, blood magic support Scourges and power Reapers, both Druid bunkers and Soulbeast bruisers, Thieves of all kinds, Mesmers have shifted from power shatter to chaos bunker without power shatter being completely irelevant and the same pattern applies to the rest of the classes with maybe Ele and Rev being the most rare ones.

I almost do not see any of the above. I rarely ever see anyone playing guardian dps, rev, or thief other than S/D core. That does not mean the other builds do not work at all, or no one plays them, but the meta is still very limited, and still mostly the same builds. Nothing has changed.

The only thing I have seen more of lately is Reapers. But they almost always suck.

You probably see more reapers because woodenpotatoes lulz.

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@MikeL.8260 said:Are we playing the same game?The meta has changed a lot, blood magic support Scourges and power Reapers,People are experimenting Reaper because people always experiment with Reaper after a balance patch. The class is not coming back. It still has a losing matchup against everything relevant, and Scourge still does everything better than it.

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@Crinn.7864 said:

@MikeL.8260 said:Are we playing the same game?The meta has changed a lot, blood magic support Scourges and power Reapers,People are experimenting Reaper because people always experiment with Reaper after a balance patch. The class is not coming back. It still has a losing matchup against everything relevant, and Scourge still does everything better than it.

It's still early in the Season but that's as relevent as this Topic's subject, the meta is different, it might change later on but it IS different right now.

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@MikeL.8260 said:

@MikeL.8260 said:Are we playing the same game?The meta has changed a lot, blood magic support Scourges and power Reapers,People are experimenting Reaper because people always experiment with Reaper after a balance patch. The class is not coming back. It still has a losing matchup against everything relevant, and Scourge still does everything better than it.

It's still early in the Season but that's as relevent as this Topic's subject, the meta is different, it might change later on but it IS different right now.

I'm not saying that the meta isn't different. I'm just saying that the reports of Reaper being relevant are false.

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@Nowaki.2136 said:Remember people used to complain about how OP condi damage was on pvp? well now is all about power, in both pvp and pve.

I think mostly people complained about AOE. I didn't expect the patch to change anything, the game is WAY to far gone for that. GW2 is all about spamming with impunity.

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@"Arheundel.6451" said:...Basically the meta still the same, didn't really try pvp seriously since 2 seasons ago...sad to see nothing changed. I was grossly misguided in thinking that the devs had a change of heart.I now realize that issues won't be addressed before next expansion launch..that will introduce the same type of issues but with a different "flavour"...this really leave a bad taste in the mouth, I should have stopped playing MMO at GW1...

I disagree. Meta is totally different. Mesmers are playing tons of different builds. shield, gs, staff, condi power etc. Thieves play sd, dp, rifles. I see a lot of veriety

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@Vagrant.7206 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:...Basically the meta still the same, didn't really try pvp seriously since 2 seasons ago...sad to see nothing changed. I was grossly misguided in thinking that the devs had a change of heart.I now realize that issues won't be addressed before next expansion launch..that will introduce the same type of issues but with a different "flavour"...this really leave a bad taste in the mouth, I should have stopped playing MMO at GW1...

The meta has changed, there is an overall increase in the diversity of builds used. I see specs like dragonhunter and scrapper making the occasional appearance in ranked matches, sword holo finally has a place, reaper has come back strong, non s/d thief builds are more common, etc. It's not as diverse as I would like (an ideal world), but this is better balance than we've seen in the last two seasons.

The only standout problems IMO are coming from mesmer (because it's generally overpowered) and scourge (because scourge has bad design and needs reworking to be less faceroll-y). Firebrand's boom spam could stand to be toned down, but it's starting to get towards manageable levels.

The following specs/classes could stand more work to make them more viable in PvP:
  • Core Engineer and Scrapper
  • All of Revenant
  • Core Necro
  • All of Ele
  • Core Warrior and Berserker
  • Core Ranger

"Build diversity," especially within a game as mechanically shallow as GW2, does not necessarily imply that a game is fair or engaging to play. Every build still plays around instantaneous engagement from maximum range while under the coddling safeguard of instant-application or passive security blankets which either grant stability or perfectly negate incoming effects and damage. Whichever class or spec or build one chooses in GW2, for it to be "competitive," it ultimately does the same exact thing as every other "meta" build: passive self-preservation which insulates the user from risk while taking offensive actions.

If anything, the attempt to artificially force a paradigm of "build diversity" is what killed GW2 in the first place. After all, when a game launches with 8 classes, but each game mode only respectively uses 4 each, the only thing that could possibly come from that is a bloat-laden powercreep cycle driven entirely by flavor-based designs; and that is exactly what GW2 faces now. Just as one example, think about how many classes have only 1 viable healing skill. Maybe you play PvP a lot: ever sometimes forget that Elementalists have signets? All of those unused assets are just worthless garbage, and GW2 is drowning in it. Now the only way for builds to power their way to the top of the trash heap is if they can stay invincible for 6s straight while still managing to deal 10-15k damage within a handful of seconds. Scourge gets a pass from the invincibility because it still stacks half of its HP pool's worth of barrier nearly instantly, and it insta-gibs anything on a point because the brilliant minds of anet made every offensive AoE on every class the same size or larger than nearly every objective point in PvP.

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