The forgotten Content[Dungeons]

[Vinceman.4572]

@Lily.1935 said:Why do you guys keep fighting to keep content bad? I honestly can't make heads or tails of it on the forums. Am I just missing something? Its everything. No one wants the game to improve and everyone who does is met with hostility. I don't understand your guys's logic. It makes no sense to me what so ever. And I'm not attacking anyone. A financial incentive isn't an attack. You've invested into the game, you have a financial incentive. Arena net have been lying about updating content, they have a financial incentive. That's not an attack its just fact. I stopped supporting the game because they refuse to do what's needed to improve the game and have actively been going in a direction that is against the spirit of why I loved the game in the first place. When I talk to people who Love MMOs and why they don't play GW2, their feeling toward it are telling. My position isn't just coming from my own frustration but but the overall lack of interest from outsiders as well. I've had several guild members quit because of how bad the dungeons were. So clearly it is a problem.

I wont accept mediocrity. To me, it makes no sense to do so.

Maybe some of us feel different and have an other opinion than you do.

[Sephylon.4938]

If I had to guess, it would probably be because people, mostly veterans, have lost all interest in dungeons, and would rather move forward through raids and t4s. Additionally it could be due to the fear of having another content drought that could be brought about by anet having to focus their resources to improve other content that may or may not yield the intended results, and that some people have a general lack of faith in anet to do what needs to be done properly. The balancing sledgehammer has been felt far too often that some people would rather not. Additionally the largely negative response that anet got from ta aether may still be lingering in their memories.

Personally, I think this game needs more of a tutorial for new players to get them to think about their build and dungeons may just be the way to do it. It could also give the experience of an easy mode raids that some people ask for and prepare them for such. Imagine if one of the bosses in ascalon had vg's green mechanic, but weaker (50% hp damage), and the same mechanic would appear in caudecus but stronger (80% hp damage) and so on. Imagine if one of the bosses had teleport circles, if there was a floor is lava section, and so forth. Imagine if the last boss in ascalon had gorseval's world eater that you had to kill ascalon mages that appears in 5 sections of the arena. So many possibilities, but do you really trust the balancing sledgehammer to do this properly, given its history with balance patches?

[Lily.1935]

@Sephylon.4938 said:If I had to guess, it would probably be because people, mostly veterans, have lost all interest in dungeons, and would rather move forward through raids and t4s. Additionally it could be due to the fear of having another content drought that could be brought about by anet having to focus their resources to improve other content that may or may not yield the intended results, and that some people have a general lack of faith in anet to do what needs to be done properly. The balancing sledgehammer has been felt far too often that some people would rather not. Additionally the largely negative response that anet got from ta aether may still be lingering in their memories.

Personally, I think this game needs more of a tutorial for new players to get them to think about their build and dungeons may just be the way to do it. It could also give the experience of an easy mode raids that some people ask for and prepare them for such. Imagine if one of the bosses in ascalon had vg's green mechanic, but weaker (50% hp damage), and the same mechanic would appear in caudecus but stronger (80% hp damage) and so on. Imagine if one of the bosses had teleport circles, if there was a floor is lava section, and so forth. Imagine if the last boss in ascalon had gorseval's world eater that you had to kill ascalon mages that appears in 5 sections of the arena. So many possibilities, but do you really trust the balancing sledgehammer to do this properly, given its history with balance patches?

I feel in terms of resource allocation the the Fractals team would be a good fit for this. Fractals are in a good spot at the moment, and once they're done with whatever new one they are working on they could have them update one of the old dungeons. At a release scheduled every couple of months after the first one was complete. Lets start with AC as this is the most familiar one to players and plan from there. I personally feel we don't need 3 paths if some of my suggestions are put in place, such as random dungeon events being more prevalent.

As for Trusting the balance team? Actually, they can do good work if they put their minds to it. They've done some really good things before that have been absolutely amazing. We have a 2 dungeons that were added in the game before that only exist as fragments in fractals that were amazing to play through in those early years. Well, not the Aetherblade. I shouldn't kid myself about that one, that dungeon was Miserable. But the Molten facility when it was a dungeon was an absolute blast to go through, I remember playing that multiple times and just loving it. And Fractals has added some great home runs with a few as well. I think they could do something great with it! And just scrapping the old dungeons and rebuilding them with existing assets to better fit the design philosophy of the game now with better teaching tools would be great!

I'm not alone in wanting to see Dungeons revived in an amazing way, and expanding them with the promise of future expansions bringing new dungeons in the new regions would be absolutely amazing. Arena net has a bad habit of removing old content or ignoring it. We need to hold their feet to the fire. This isn't like some internet provider were we don't have another choice of service. We do have other choices of games. And Arena net is competing for our time and money.

[Talindra.4958]

Perhaps they could make new dungeon base on current raid model. I do miss dungeon mode where everyone jump in and play.. by all means make second set of pve leg armour via this “new” dungeons and 5 ap each .. ?? that will keep me busy for a bit... ??✌️✌️

[Tyson.5160]

@Talindra.4958 said:Perhaps they could make new dungeon base on current raid model. I do miss dungeon mode where everyone jump in and play.. by all means make second set of pve leg armour via this “new” dungeons and 5 ap each .. ?? that will keep me busy for a bit... ??✌️✌️

Talindra, this is where I agree with you ?

[Talindra.4958]

@Tyson.5160 said:

@Talindra.4958 said:Perhaps they could make new dungeon base on current raid model. I do miss dungeon mode where everyone jump in and play.. by all means make second set of pve leg armour via this “new” dungeons and 5 ap each .. ?? that will keep me busy for a bit... ??

✌️

✌️

Talindra, this is where I agree with you ?

I hv always encourage contents. Providing they have resources to do it that is. ?

[Deadvillager.1956]

In my opinion, all we need is a Random dungeon queue that puts you in a random group from LFG dependig on your level. I mean we dont even have a trinity, all you need is slap 5 peeps onto each other and they can basically finish any dungeon.

[Brynioch.1873]

@Deadvillager.1956 said:In my opinion, all we need is a Random dungeon queue that puts you in a random group from LFG dependig on your level. I mean we dont even have a trinity, all you need is slap 5 peeps onto each other and they can basically finish any dungeon.

People wanted that in the past near release and it didn't happen. ArenaNet even said they don't want such a system in their game. It will definitly never happen for dead content.

[Vayne.8563]

Dungeons were designed by the original dungeon team before the game launched. That team didn't really have any idea on how to design content for a system with no trinity. Fractals were designed by people who learned lessons from where dungeons failed.

I think Fractals are better in almost every way than dungeons. I think they're more fun, they teach more about the game, and they're not quite as easily exploited.

I get that people have a love affair with the word dungeon and the idea of dungeons. But if you really want to help new players out tell them dungeons are older content that have been replaced by Fractals. Because that happens to be the truth.

[Plautze.6290]

Being redirected to fractals when all you need is a gift which can only be obtained once the story mode of the corresponding dungeon has been cleared while there is literally nobody doing those anymore is not exactly increasing my enthusiasm... perhaps it would be a nice move to create some fractals that unlock the reward tracks instead of waiting your ass off before some dungeon that nobody wants to play anymore.

[infrequentia.3465]

@Plautze.6290 said:Being redirected to fractals when all you need is a gift which can only be obtained once the story mode of the corresponding dungeon has been cleared while there is literally nobody doing those anymore is not exactly increasing my enthusiasm... perhaps it would be a nice move to create some fractals that unlock the reward tracks instead of waiting your kitten off before some dungeon that nobody wants to play anymore.

people still run dungeons .

just make a group for the dungeon you need and it will fill up. people make legendaries everyday

• if all you want is the gift theres rewards tracks in pvp/wvw.wvw is something you need to do anway for legendaries

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@"Lily.1935" said:Why do you guys keep fighting to keep content bad?I don't think the dungeon content is bad and I'd be perfectly happy if ANet could update it so it fit better into the current state of the game. However, they have said that doing so would mean canceling other plans. I prefer that they keep on keeping on.

As much as I think I know what is good for the game, ANet's surprised me often with fantastic changes that I thought would make little difference to me or others. I trust that they know how to make a fun game better than any of us.

No one wants the game to improve and everyone who does is met with hostility.I simply disagree with you. I'm not sure why you say that's "hostile."

And I'm not attacking anyone. A financial incentive isn't an attack.Address my argument, not my motivations. There's no way for you to know why I disagree; you've assumed reasons. Worse, you've categorically stated that my motivations are suspect, and therefore my opinion is less valid. That form of rhetoric is called "an attack."

You've invested into the game, you have a financial incentive.I haven't spent a dime on the game beyond the expansions. I have no interest in ANet's future, except that I like their games, so I hope they make enough money to keep making them.

Arena net have been lying about updating content,And I'm not attacking anyone.Which is it?

I wont accept mediocrity. To me, it makes no sense to do so.No one is asking you to accept mediocrity. Not everyone agrees with you about what in the game is mediocre, nor why.

[Lily.1935]

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@"Lily.1935" said:Why do you guys keep fighting to keep content bad?I don't think the dungeon content is bad and I'd be perfectly happy if ANet could update it so it fit better into the current state of the game. However, they have said that doing so would mean canceling other plans. I prefer that they keep on keeping on.

As much as I think I know what is good for the game, ANet's surprised me often with fantastic changes that I thought would make little difference to me or others. I trust that they know how to make a fun game better than any of us.

No one wants the game to improve and everyone who does is met with hostility.I simply disagree with you. I'm not sure why you say that's "hostile."

And I'm not attacking anyone. A financial incentive isn't an attack.Address my argument, not my motivations. There's no way for you to know why I disagree; you've assumed reasons. Worse, you've categorically stated that my motivations are suspect, and therefore my opinion is less valid. That form of rhetoric is called "an attack."

You've invested into the game, you have a financial incentive.I haven't spent a dime on the game beyond the expansions. I have no interest in ANet's future, except that I like their games, so I hope they make enough money to keep making them.

Arena net have been lying about updating content,And I'm not attacking anyone.Which is it?

I wont accept mediocrity. To me, it makes no sense to do so.No one is asking you to accept mediocrity. Not everyone agrees with you about what in the game is mediocre, nor why.

I'm not inclined to trust a corporation especially when they've been caught lying in the past. I don't take then for their word because why would I?

The thing is, Anet knows the dungeon content is bad. They've admitted it. But they are pushing a false narrative about the content claiming that Fractals do everything dungeons could do but better. But in their current form they do not. Especially whe. We compare the content with other games not just internally. I couldn't convince a dungeon lover from another gaming franchise to play fractals (I've tried). But I'm not saying The content is bad it just doesn't serve the purpose they claim it does. Their is a disconnect between the players desires and what arena net is giving us. You might not feel that way, fine. But everyone I've spoken to is extremely bitter about the state of dungeon except for the hand full of people on the forums who either A, are happy with mediocrity such as yourself or B, passive aggressively shoot down every suggestion to make the game better.

[thrag.9740]

If Anet wants to devote resources to improving dungeons they should just make new dungeons. Remember, ANet is trying to make money by selling expansions now. Fractals and raids are both gated behind an expansion paywall, but because they made core gw2 free to play, dungeons are not. New dungeons could be placed in pof maps.

[flog.3485]

New dungeons could be created for next expansion. I would support that.Dungeons in core game are now new/f2p player territory.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

@"Lily.1935" said:What was supposed to be the introduction into End game content in GW2 as well as supposed to be part of that end game content that does a poor job at teaching new players how to play as well as being wildly unbalanced? Dungeons!

When trying to convince a new player to stay in the game who enjoys PvE one of the first things they ask about is Dungeons. The question usually goes like this "Which dungeons provide the best loot/have the best rewards?" Or "I want to run dungeons, why is it so difficult to get a group for it?" And it shows me right off the bat as a veteran player that there is a certain expectation from them that isn't being met by the Balance team for PvE. New players expect that dungeons are supposed to be the content they do while leveling and expect that they are an option for the End game. Yet in both cases dungeons fail their expectation. And when they talk to veteran players the response from the community is almost always filled with bitterness.

First impressions are extremely important. But dungeons give an extremely bad first impression of the game. Part of this has to do with how the community complains about the forgotten content but the other part of it is that their complaints are justified. Arena net gives off this impression to new players that they don't care about the old content and it instantly puts the thought in their head "Well if I enjoy something It will be ignored and forgotten in the future." This isn't something any business in gaming should want. Forgotten old content is why many players leave MMOs in favor of new ones. WoW for example had did this for years, obsoleting their old content in favor of new content and this eventually cut their numbers. I'm not saying this is the only reason but to say it wasn't a factor is foolish. Many WoW veterans have told me that they quit because of this reason and that game is seeing new energy with their next expansion from what I've heard. But that's because they are reinvigorating old content with new things.

Dungeons are clunky in their current form. Their difficulty scaling is usually based on cheap tricks and players have been insensitivity into bad habits which lead to one of the worst PvE balancing experiences in the game and those tactics still exist in dungeons. Dungeons are a relic of a bygone era of GW2 that doesn't fit the current balance of the game. Because of this the dungeons being used as a teaching tool for players to get into Raids or Fractals just isn't an option because of what's optimal in Dungeons compared to the other content is quite different. Healers are not required in dungeons, Condition damage is often punished, stacking in the corner is rewarded and strange mechanics are used in the dungeons that have no equivalent outside of that specific fight. As a teaching tool, dungeons give players skills they don't need and fail to teach skills they do need. But this is the content that was supposed to be the preparation for Fractals. Yet it fails at this.

Additionally, Arena net have stated that Fractals do everything that dungeons are supposed to do or capable of doing. Yet no one but the hardest core of fanbois really believes this. Its clearly a cost cutting measure and that's it. And part of the community has just accepted that and wont even ask for scraps from the devs when we should be demanding the world. Fractals fail as a replacement for Dungeons because the experience you get, even if its only a physiological one is extremely different. Fractals are like mini dungeons. Bit sized bits of content that almost acts as a sampler platter. This isn't what I'd call a replacement. 4 sides can't replace a steak. Dungeons uniqueness would allow them to actively teach players how to do the harder content without as much of a risk. A boss that acts as a quicker fight that fights kinda like Gorseval but doesn't have the ability to instantly kill the party if you fail to interrupt him could be great at the end of a dungeon. Having mechanics that seem similar, like the green Circles in Vale but as a mini game in a dungeon about color matching could be a good way to get players used to these mechanics without having to be punished. Fractals can't teach this because of its Roll in the game, but dungeons absolutely could because the roll they were supposed to have isn't being used.

Suggestions:With some of this in mind lets getting some suggestions going for dungeons. I'll post some of mine to really add new spice to the dungeons that could make them a unique experience for players looking to have some fun.

1. Party Bonus: This idea for the dungeons is to help incentivise players to work together. Having a point system that shows up at the end of the dungeon that offers bonus rewards for the party for members using things like combo fields, healing allies, reviving downed allies, destroying break bards and so on could be a great way to help teach players to work together and teach them about these things.
2. Time Trial: There are quite a few speedrunners in the community and having a timed trial leader board would be great for them. Giving them extra rewards or titles for completing each path in a specific time limit or gaining a daily record holder title or maybe a monthly one would be something that many players would absolutely love.
3. Dungeon Events: Having Events that pop up In a dungeon run and perhaps even having them be random so they don't always pop up in the same run that add to your overall bonus rewards at the end of it could give players a reason to not just run past everything to get to the end as quickly as possible. These events would incentivize players to stick in the dungeons longer and get bonus rewards for doing so. But could be skipped without punishing the player for doing so.
4. Bonus Objective: A daily bonus objective that you could do once a day in any dungeon path could be a good thing to add as well. Something extra you need to do much like the bonus objectives back in GW1 for the missions which could have its own unique title or reward track associated with it.
5. Hard Mode: One of the biggest suggestions that Everyone I talk to who misses doing dungeons have said is the desire for a hard mode. Scaling all dungeons in hard mode up to level 80 and making it more challenging with more rewards and new rewards. This is highly desirable and gives even more replay value to the dungeon enthusiasts.
6. New Rewards/New Skins: Going along with the Hard mode, having the Hard mode rewards be different from the Normal mode counterpart could be a major boon. New weapon and armor skins that are ascended could give players a great way to play this content over and over again. And considering that the armor would be dungeon armor the devs could do something really simple with it. Making them elite versions of Existing Dungeon armor. Using the same models as the previous armor sets but changing the skin much like they did with prestigious armor back in GW1. This would save arena net a lot of time in designing new armors while also making the fashion community of GW2 extremely happy.

I know I'm not alone in wanting dungeons to return in a big way in GW2. In fact there are plenty of benefits of improving this content long term for the game. Short term is sounds like a pretty big work load and cost, but long term this really gives new players an extremely Good impression of the game right off the bat and helps keep GW2 far safer from losing players who could otherwise move on to a new game that does what GW2 does, but actually does keep their content relevant for longer. I feel that perhaps all my suggestions don't need to be put in place, but I do know that dungeons should be updated for the health of the game. And we as players who love the game should absolutely DEMAND it! If we keep making the "Time and money" Excuse for arena net they will never give us what we want because we wont demand it from them. If you think being insistent doesn't work, well there are other games that prove that it absolutely does. Just look at Nintendo and their game Super Smash bros. The SSB community has been screaming for years for Sonic, Megaman, Cloud and many others to get in the game, something that probably SHOULD have been impossible for nintendo, but they kept on demanding it and demanding it. And you know what they got? Almost everything they wanted from the roster! It should show you just how much of an impact that we as fans can have on a game. Arena Net is a company, yes. But they are also beholden to US! They need to give us what we want because there are hundreds of other options we can take. So they have a lot of pressure to listen to us as long as we demand it from them. So no more excuses, Arena net! Update the dungeons!

It’s not Forgotten, it’s Abandoned, Anet Stated that they are no longer going to support the content especially with the Dungeon team no longer being existent, and they also stated that Fractals took the place of Dungeons and that’s what they are actually Supporting.

[Vinceman.4572]

@"Lily.1935" said:"...are happy with mediocrity such as yourself..."

I didn't know that fractals and raids are mediocre content. Must be very mediocre if I'm playing them every day and my friends also. oO

[TexZero.7910]

They added a new dungeon, The Dwarven Delve/Ruins.

I hope they continue this route instead of the instanced versions. This way they can added new itemsets and have them be about the exploration.

[Wondrouswall.7169]

The only update I want for dungeons:Inanimate objects and world boss type enemies (Nightmare Tree in Twilight Arbor) updated to be susceptible to conditions and/or critical hits.

[Iozeph.5617]

@Sephylon.4938 said:If I had to guess, it would probably be because people, mostly veterans, have lost all interest in dungeons, and would rather move forward through raids and t4s. >Additionally it could be due to the fear of having another content drought that could be brought about by anet having to focus their resources to improve other content >that may or may not yield the intended results, and that some people have a general lack of faith in anet to do what needs to be done properly. The balancing >sledgehammer has been felt far too often that some people would rather not. Additionally the largely negative response that anet got from ta aether may still be lingering >in their memories.

That's the odd thing. Our friends came over to the game sold on there being dungeons. More or less, dungeons provided a nightly adventure in a low investment for time whilst keeping that adventure tied to the events outside. A sort of five-man extension of the way personal stories/living world are done where you're either squired or charged with squiring around some of the games more notable personalities/heroes. Fractals put them off.

They felt disjointed from the story they'd come to know through playing their characters up from level one. One regarded fractals as a playpen. Throw five players into a box without much dressing, give them some toys but no direction, then tell them to stay quiet for thirty minutes or longer and hope they don't begin hitting one another with said toys.

Believe it or not, even though it grew somewhat repetitive after a time the scripting and dialogues in the dungeons still helped. More, having three paths in the dungeons felt better to them than the fractals them as, once there was a rough understanding of each path, difficulty on any given night was a la carte, depending on the path chosen rather than the grab bag feeling of fractals. As we'd gained in levels that choice opened up. And the flavour of the dungeons changed with the regions.

Of late, it seems at least for a couple of the dungeons they've added some new named npcs which attack at certain points along the paths. Unfortunately it hasn't been enough for some. Most of those who caem along or those we met in dungeons moved on or went back to wow. Another, one who'd tried to stay with fractals longer than we ever did, said that the only choice was setting the levels of the fractals ever higher- but that it was still more or less the same trench with added difficulty. He said it was the devs' equivalent of take away for a family supper - mom gives up. In the end it didn't matter. They left and haven't come back.

Branding counts. If players come in semi-interested in the game and it's only-one-chance-for-a-first-impression time and they're told, 'No, the game doesn't have dungeons, it used to but the devs didn't want to do them any more because it was hard.' sometimes that's all it takes to send them off and packing. It's easy to say, 'Well enough, not much of a loss, and nature abhors a vacuum,' but none of that does much for keeping new blood around, does it? Considering the many ways there are for being hit up for money in gw2 in a given month- whether it's for cosmetics or all the little remedies for convenient inconveniences(permanent mining/salvage tools, dyes, and the one arm bandit black lion chests etc.) the low, set fee from the five hundred pound gorilla out there, especially given the variety of content still on offer, becomes more and more attractive.

Without dungeons, with the pale shadow of fractals and erratically implemented raid content, what more the stale competitive modes with terrible intra-profession balancing, the image Anet projects for prospective customers isn't one of commitment to a competitive, quality product. Just that of one more in a sea of similar 'free to play' dolly-dressup moneys grabs.

Dungeons might be difficult, balancing competitive modes might be difficult, they might be slightly spendier in time and money, but the effort has to at least be made. Why? Because if Anet won't do anything to appeal to the wider base -given the latest news of the scaling changes in WoW- there's certainly someone out there who will. If the 'lowest common denominator' continues to ask, 'Are there dungeons?' There had better be dungeons.

[Plautze.6290]

@Plautze.6290 said:Being redirected to fractals when all you need is a gift which can only be obtained once the story mode of the corresponding dungeon has been cleared while there is literally nobody doing those anymore is not exactly increasing my enthusiasm... perhaps it would be a nice move to create some fractals that unlock the reward tracks instead of waiting your kitten off before some dungeon that nobody wants to play anymore.

Oh, my ignorance! I have been proven wrong by the last few days because there were always people doing CoE when it was under pact control. So doing my daily 3 paths to get some knowledge crystals has been quite successful whilst also having fun (twice had an amazing group of funny and witty people, really enjoyed myself!) On the downside, though, I have to say that LFG'ing up to get a group for story mode had me waiting a long time until finally somebody showed up and we did it in a 3-man team. But since dungeon tokens can be farmed without ever having to do the story, that's okay, I guess.

Onward to the other dungeons!

[Voltekka.2375]

"Over the last couple of years, dungeons have been a major part of the game’s economy; between unique armor and liquid rewards, they’re often farmed. In the expansion, we’ll move away from this paradigm. As the game progressed, we shifted focus from dungeons to fractals and raids, and we firmly believe that fractals and raids are the content that we want to continue to support. As a part of that process, we’ll shift some rewards away from dungeons and into other pieces of content. While dungeons will remain cool experiences that’ll reward players with unique items, their liquid rewards will be reduced and other content will become more rewarding. The shift in rewards is a direct representation of our focus on raids and fractals and our commitment to make them the best they can be.

The major concern that we’re sure to face is the specific intent of dungeons as a gold-generating activity. To that effect, let’s talk about map rewards."

So... There is that. Dungeons will not be resurrected. They may (or will) fix bugs or other stuff that make dungeons unplayable, but thats it.

[Amineo.8951]

Nobody's playing raids (ok maybe 10% of the player base?), but a lot sure did play dungeons because even if it takes between 10min to 4 hours it's still manageable for any people which isn't the same for raids and T4 fractals (especially CM).

I know it would take some work but you can include lots of stuff into dungeons without excluding any type of players, the instanced content that they made for HoT and PoF proves that they are able to do something.

[Feanor.2358]

@"Amineo.8951" said:Nobody's playing raids (ok maybe 10% of the player base?), but a lot sure did play dungeons because even if it takes between 10min to 4 hours it's still manageable for any people which isn't the same for raids and T4 fractals (especially CM).

I know it would take some work but you can include lots of stuff into dungeons without excluding any type of players, the instanced content that they made for HoT and PoF proves that they are able to do something.

The same people now play fractals and raids. Look, it's not that I'm actively against dungeons. A friend of mine asked yesterday for a daily Arah, and I was happy to join. Arah in particular I think it's still worth playing because of the amazing lore there. But it is old content. Old in terms of design. If you compare it with newer instanced, the new ones are a lot more readable and clear. For instance, we spent several minutes at the oozes in the Jotun path before we figured out/remembered how the encounter worked. It's not that several minutes are crucial, it's just the "ok... now what??" experience that doesn't feel good. And then there are the yellow, immune to condi and crit objects. And then there are the champs with the not-quite-functional defiance bars. Lots of stuff to be addressed for questionable gain. Dungeons are left in a playable state and people still play them (our LFG yesterday filled in the matter of few minutes... on Arah... yes, it was daily, but it's also the longest dungeon).

[Darkvramp.5640]

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:When people ask about dungeons, direct them to fractals; that's the instanced content for "the rest of us."

Devs stopped support dungeons because it turns out to be a poor use of their time, compared to all the other things they have on their plate, including requests from us. The tools they used to design dungeons originally were clunky, the designs are sensitive to minor changes. So fixing bugs small or large is expensive. Fractals are designed to be easier to tinker with, to add new ones, and to add multiple difficulty levels.

There's now nearly as many fractals as explorable dungeon paths.

If the only issue is that people ask for dungeons, then let's change the name of the old dungeons to "instanced side stories" and fractals to "dungeons."

as a new player it is confusing what is a dungeon and what is a part of a story line of some sort.