Why aren’t soulbeasts wanted in any squad?

[Some Call Me Tim.2319]

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@"Balthazzarr.1349" said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@"Balthazzarr.1349" said:Here's a little update for those that really believe that Ranger is useless in a group fight.

So many people keep saying that Ranger is a ONE target attacker. Do they even look at the LB specializations and skills?

Every one of my longbow skills hits up to 5 targets, (using Lead The Wind in the Marksmanship specialization). When I fire into a zerg I am hitting 5 people at once, not just one! And frankly all this talk about reflect?? I still don't see any issue with it at all while playing my Soulbeast... Once in a while I'm hitting someone 1v1 and they hit me with reflect which knocks me back for a second and that's it. It's not a killer... just an inconvenience.

Add: Leader Of the Pack in the Soulbeast specialization and you have a bit of support for team members close to you as well if you're using Stances, which I do.

As for those guys running away, keep this in mind:Long Range Shot (Long bow #1) does more damage the further away the enemy is. With my set up if the enemy is 1000 or more away I hit them for at least 953 damage... that's usually multiplied by my 80-100% crit chance and over 200% crit damage, which is why the further away you get the faster you fall!

There are classes that do everything you posted above much more efficiently, with boonsharing /booncorrupting, CC. As for the dps part, well, eles/scourges dominate ranger in that aspect by a mile,in zergs.

Yes, well as true as that may be... and I do play other classes, Firebrand, Spellbreaker, Scourge... but I play Soulbeast the best. I survive better and kill more with soulbeast. So although I might not be supporting the team with heals etc I'm at least taking enemy targets down.. and not just one at a time. Eles and Scourges may or may not dominate as far as dps goes.. but they still die plenty well when I hit them. There's enough other stuff on them already that makes them nice and soft for me. And since I'm range, like I said, I kill a lot of enemy. I have as many bags as you can possibly have and start out a night pretty empty... have to keep them cleaned constantly after running for a bit.

Over all the other classes are obviously best in a squad.... but if you have me and my Soulbeast in a squad you won't hear complaints from a commander. At least it's been so long since I've been asked to leave any squad that I must be doing something useful.

Sorry to be blunt, but neither lootbags or the fact that you are ranged count for much. If anything, to actually be useful for the squad as a soulbeast, frontliner, you would have to play stanceshare (which you dont cause you like to camp on longbow-btw, soulbeast can use other weapons as well to be more useful). The only reason to play soulbeast is because a player just loves the ranger class and cant play anything else in a zerg. Sure, you may pick off some Weaver or scourge who stayed behind. Or knockback the enemy comm to be annoying. But thats it. This meta (and all previous metas, hell, soulbeast is not even in non meta) and the current wvw class structure would only accept a soulbeast in a squad if the squad isnt full, or if the squad roflstomps the enemy zerg. Soulbeast just doesnt cut it. A bad/mediocre necro will do probably more of a difference than a good or great soulbeast. But then again, how many mediocre necros are out there and how many great soulbeasts?

At the end of my day all the above doesn’t matter. I do what I do and enjoy it. My commander counts on me for targetted enemy he wants powered down and for scouting etc. Not everyone must be a big healer or frontliner. You can try to “slap” me down for my play style but as they say it’s my way of fun in this game.

Having said all that... I can play my other classes well, I just prefer my Soulbeast.

[EDDIE WRECKER.1375]

@Dralor.3701 said:

@EDDIE WRECKER.1375 said:

@Dralor.3701 said:SB is fine for sniping necros and other squishy targets, just not as aoe centric as some of the other dps.

Doesnt anyone use marksmanship trait line to hit multiple targets with bow?

Have you tried using projectiles in zerg fights? The unblockable portion is really the only useful period unless you are hitting the edges of the group.

Yeah do it all the time, piecing with 2 unblockables does a fair bit of damage. Its a good way to pin snipe when outnumbered.

[Mogrey.3891]

no need to say something more than what already been said here. all i have to say is that ranger takes a lot more effort than some other classes. from the moment i brought scourge to wvw i feel like i'm playing a much easier game.

[ZNICK.8537]

@"DanAlcedo.3281" said:Why take a Soulbeast if you could take :

1. Scourge
2. Firebrand
3. Spellbreaker
4. Hammer Revenant
5. Chrono
6. Weaver
7. Support Tempest
8. Support Rev
9. Reaper
10. Base Necro
11. Base Guardian
12. Dragonhunter
13. Base Ele
14. Druide
15. Base Mesmer
16. Mirage
17. Base Warrior

(Not in any special order)

Thats it.Thats the reason.

Nobody says Soulbeast is bad , but there are way to many better options.

I does not matter how many player can be in a squad.You want only the best in slot option and if you dont have that , then the next best in slot.

Why is the ranger kicked from squads when even the thieves are kept (they have their uses because of their speed and stealth).

From my experience , the chance that a thief does not know what he is doing is rather low.But try to find a Ranger Player ( any kind ) that knows what he / she is doing. GOOD LUCK.

I have seen some amazing thiefs that do a great job , even in zerg fights.I cant say the same from Ranger Players.

You "can't say the same for ranger players" because you won't let them in your group... saying a "firebrand is better than a ranger" only hold truth when both players have the same amount of experience w/the class.

There are GREAT Druid players who are better than 90% of the firebrands because they know their class. With this nonsense you now have people rolling new classes "for the meta" and SUCKING at them.

Z

[Za Shaloc.3908]

I tend to just roam on my Soulbeast, but when I decide to join a tag I have noticed I have ranged from being pretty useless to quite effective. I am not able to really test it for a few days, but I have been wondering if an MM/Skirmishing build could be any good to take advantage of higher RF uptime via Quickdraw.

[Sovereign.1093]

help out your team by running the proper class or builds and join ts coms. from last tier to first, i have not seen a group that does better than the conventional 2 fbs : 3 scourge with herald weaver spell breaker chrono.

to break the mold is fine. but the battle is between buffs on and sustain vs buffs off and damage (this is the atom of fights)

[Dralor.3701]

In standoff or pirateship situations they can be the useful but I’d usually rather have a Druid in my group.

[ZNICK.8537]

@Dralor.3701 said:In standoff or pirateship situations they can be the useful but I’d usually rather have a Druid in my group.

I've main'd Druid for ages and I feel I'm good at it... but I still have commanders ask me to not play the druid as well. So I switch and am half as effective.

Z

[DanAlcedo.3281]

@ZNICK.8537 said:

@"DanAlcedo.3281" said:Why take a Soulbeast if you could take :

1. Scourge
2. Firebrand
3. Spellbreaker
4. Hammer Revenant
5. Chrono
6. Weaver
7. Support Tempest
8. Support Rev
9. Reaper
10. Base Necro
11. Base Guardian
12. Dragonhunter
13. Base Ele
14. Druide
15. Base Mesmer
16. Mirage
17. Base Warrior

(Not in any special order)

Thats it.Thats the reason.

Nobody says Soulbeast is bad , but there are way to many better options.

I does not matter how many player can be in a squad.You want only the best in slot option and if you dont have that , then the next best in slot.

Why is the ranger kicked from squads when even the thieves are kept (they have their uses because of their speed and stealth).

From my experience , the chance that a thief does not know what he is doing is rather low.But try to find a Ranger Player ( any kind ) that knows what he / she is doing. GOOD LUCK.

I have seen some amazing thiefs that do a great job , even in zerg fights.I cant say the same from Ranger Players.

You "can't say the same for ranger players" because you won't let them in your group... saying a "firebrand is better than a ranger" only hold truth when both players have the same amount of experience w/the class.

There are GREAT Druid players who are better than 90% of the firebrands because they know their class. With this nonsense you now have people rolling new classes "for the meta" and SUCKING at them.

Z

First of :Druide is in the list of usefull Specs.And this Topic is about SOULBEAST (!).We talk about Pew Pew Ranger here.

Second:Yes a G R E A T Druid.But the commander can not know your skill level.Thats why we always asume the average skill level.And a average Firebrand is better then a average Druide.

IF the commander knows the Druide and knows he is good , then there is no Problem.

The "meta" are builds and classes that are the best choice for an average player.

To excel as a Ranger you need above average skill.That why its not meta.

And one last thing.You cant suck at Necro or Firebrand.Having such a low skill level , that would be needed to make this possible is , is basicly impossible.

[Despond.2174]

Well the simple and only answer is because there are just far better options to have in your squad. I mean you can take anything, but with any game you're always going to have metas/optimal compositions. SB is fine for smaller engagements and it's very solid in PVE, so not all hope is lost. Rangers have it very good, I guess you can't have it all with every elite spec being desirable.

[reddie.5861]

@anduriell.6280 said:So last day I had to read and listen (in discord) some disheartening comments about why rangers aren’t wanted in any squad..

• they don’t bring support
• Druid is worst than firebrand at healing
• They don’t do damage
• They are dead weight

But with the soulbeast the ranger got share stances and with LB + trait we can pierce up to 5 enemies.

Is it true? Is Souldbeast damage so low? (I don’t use arcdps)Aren’t the shared stances useful?Why is the ranger kicked from squads when even the thieves are kept (they have their uses because of their speed and stealth).

archdps is bunch of bullshit.so your thinking that a class that can dump aoe all over the place is better DD then class that sits on single dmg?

i mean a thief or ranger can spike down wanted targets like go hunt the backline for scourges its easy for us and we can do it quick if i wack 10 scourges at ones for 1k dmg or i bang down 1 in a 10k+ hit i prefer the last option ill take them down 1 by 1 and let arcdps think all classes are shit beside AoE classes.

[Brother.1504]

Rangers are the new op meta for underwater wvw combats.

[SloRules.3560]

@reddie.5861 said:

@anduriell.6280 said:So last day I had to read and listen (in discord) some disheartening comments about why rangers aren’t wanted in any squad..

• they don’t bring support
• Druid is worst than firebrand at healing
• They don’t do damage
• They are dead weight

But with the soulbeast the ranger got share stances and with LB + trait we can pierce up to 5 enemies.

Is it true? Is Souldbeast damage so low? (I don’t use arcdps)Aren’t the shared stances useful?Why is the ranger kicked from squads when even the thieves are kept (they have their uses because of their speed and stealth).

archdps is bunch of kitten.so your thinking that a class that can dump aoe all over the place is better DD then class that sits on single dmg?

i mean a thief or ranger can spike down wanted targets like go hunt the backline for scourges its easy for us and we can do it quick if i wack 10 scourges at ones for 1k dmg or i bang down 1 in a 10k+ hit i prefer the last option ill take them down 1 by 1 and let arcdps think all classes are kitten beside AoE classes.

How about doing 10k dmg to 10 targets?

[Dralor.3701]

@ZNICK.8537 said:

@Dralor.3701 said:In standoff or pirateship situations they can be the useful but I’d usually rather have a Druid in my group.

I've main'd Druid for ages and I feel I'm good at it... but I still have commanders ask me to not play the druid as well. So I switch and am half as effective.

Z

I’ve never understood the Druid hate, good support and those imobs!

[Dralor.3701]

Part of the problem with any pvp/WvW environment is just the toxicity in general. People want to point fingers of things don’t go well and certain classes being scapegoats make it easy for them. Sometimes it might be that particular servers culture and other time times it will simply be someone being unreasonable.

People also don’t know what they want, will hear “switch to more CC” (switches to more CC) “why aren’t you doing enough damage?!” You said switch to CC...

Personally I don’t think thief is very useful but a decent player on any of the other classes is always nice to have around.

[reddie.5861]

@SloRules.3560 said:

@reddie.5861 said:

@anduriell.6280 said:So last day I had to read and listen (in discord) some disheartening comments about why rangers aren’t wanted in any squad..

• they don’t bring support
• Druid is worst than firebrand at healing
• They don’t do damage
• They are dead weight

But with the soulbeast the ranger got share stances and with LB + trait we can pierce up to 5 enemies.

Is it true? Is Souldbeast damage so low? (I don’t use arcdps)Aren’t the shared stances useful?Why is the ranger kicked from squads when even the thieves are kept (they have their uses because of their speed and stealth).

archdps is bunch of kitten.so your thinking that a class that can dump aoe all over the place is better DD then class that sits on single dmg?

i mean a thief or ranger can spike down wanted targets like go hunt the backline for scourges its easy for us and we can do it quick if i wack 10 scourges at ones for 1k dmg or i bang down 1 in a 10k+ hit i prefer the last option ill take them down 1 by 1 and let arcdps think all classes are kitten beside AoE classes.

How about doing 10k dmg to 10 targets?

comon man, when i roam on my thief/ranger i eat these blob toons like its nothing.scourge isnt doing dmg alone nor is effective alonefirebrand is same shit u just put preasure on them and once they are done with all their superior healing bullcrap u slap them around like a wet noodle.

so if scourge according to you is doing 10k dmg to 10 targets it should easily 1 hit everything that is being focused aka the 1v1 u get as roamer..

[Wildman.9641]

As a very casual WvW player I have tier 3 or 4 in everything and 4100 kills. It is interesting and it feels like I am participating.... until you come to the forums.

[Garrus.7403]

@reddie.5861 said:

@SloRules.3560 said:

@reddie.5861 said:

@anduriell.6280 said:So last day I had to read and listen (in discord) some disheartening comments about why rangers aren’t wanted in any squad..

• they don’t bring support
• Druid is worst than firebrand at healing
• They don’t do damage
• They are dead weight

But with the soulbeast the ranger got share stances and with LB + trait we can pierce up to 5 enemies.

Is it true? Is Souldbeast damage so low? (I don’t use arcdps)Aren’t the shared stances useful?Why is the ranger kicked from squads when even the thieves are kept (they have their uses because of their speed and stealth).

archdps is bunch of kitten.so your thinking that a class that can dump aoe all over the place is better DD then class that sits on single dmg?

i mean a thief or ranger can spike down wanted targets like go hunt the backline for scourges its easy for us and we can do it quick if i wack 10 scourges at ones for 1k dmg or i bang down 1 in a 10k+ hit i prefer the last option ill take them down 1 by 1 and let arcdps think all classes are kitten beside AoE classes.

How about doing 10k dmg to 10 targets?

comon man, when i roam on my thief/ranger i eat these blob toons like its nothing.scourge isnt doing dmg alone nor is effective alonefirebrand is same kitten u just put preasure on them and once they are done with all their superior healing bullcrap u slap them around like a wet noodle.

so if scourge according to you is doing 10k dmg to 10 targets it should easily 1 hit everything that is being focused aka the 1v1 u get as roamer..

Sure if you roam with thief and ranger you can kill scourge but if you go for blob fights these classes are useless. You pew pew a scourge a bit they heal they have barrier and dodge back in melee train. You will do no dmg to this scourge anymore. You can oneshot a scourge if they are to far away from the zerg with your thief. But if the scourge is close to the melee and you jump on it with thief you are insta down. Even if the scourge is a bit of tag and in the caster cloud and you jump it with you will likely get casted down by the other scourges and classes. Pew pew ranger and thief is just not viable for blobfights.

[steki.1478]

@Wildman.9641 said:As a very casual WvW player I have tier 3 or 4 in everything and 4100 kills. It is interesting and it feels like I am participating.... until you come to the forums.

4000 kills is nothing since you can get over 500 kills on scourge in only several hours. Up to 1000 on resets.

[Spurnshadow.3678]

This age old argument.

It's really simple. It doesn't matter how good you are. If you're playing at range of 1200-1500 to the enemy group, then you have no place in a squad because you're taking up a party slot that could be held by someone that is going to play on or near the tag and contribute boons/cleanses/healing. If you're playing a druid, then odds are you are going to be playing much closer to tag doing heals, etc. When you're that far away, you contribute nothing, therefore, you don't need to be in the squad. Party comp is really important to success in WvW.

[Dralor.3701]

@Spurnshadow.3678 said:This age old argument.

It's really simple. It doesn't matter how good you are. If you're playing at range of 1200-1500 to the enemy group, then you have no place in a squad because you're taking up a party slot that could be held by someone that is going to play on or near the tag and contribute boons/cleanses/healing. If you're playing a druid, then odds are you are going to be playing much closer to tag doing heals, etc. When you're that far away, you contribute nothing, therefore, you don't need to be in the squad. Party comp is really important to success in WvW.

There is nothing that says a soulbeast can’t stay on a tag, it isn’t like you need to stand still to fire the bow. Depending on how you spec the GS is also pretty solid damage.

[steki.1478]

@Dralor.3701 said:

@Spurnshadow.3678 said:This age old argument.

It's really simple. It doesn't matter how good you are. If you're playing at range of 1200-1500 to the enemy group, then you have no place in a squad because you're taking up a party slot that could be held by someone that is going to play on or near the tag and contribute boons/cleanses/healing. If you're playing a druid, then odds are you are going to be playing much closer to tag doing heals, etc. When you're that far away, you contribute nothing, therefore, you don't need to be in the squad. Party comp is really important to success in WvW.

There is nothing that says a soulbeast can’t stay on a tag, it isn’t like you need to stand still to fire the bow. Depending on how you spec the GS is also pretty solid damage.

Your bow doesnt have as many aoes as scourge/rev/weaver. You burst 1 target, tag people with 5 and do what after that? Support build (if exists) should always be welcome in melee squad, but a pure dps soulbeast with LB only belongs to dedicated ranged squads/focus parties.

[kash.9213]

@Garrus.7403 said:

@reddie.5861 said:

@SloRules.3560 said:

@reddie.5861 said:

@anduriell.6280 said:So last day I had to read and listen (in discord) some disheartening comments about why rangers aren’t wanted in any squad..

• they don’t bring support
• Druid is worst than firebrand at healing
• They don’t do damage
• They are dead weight

But with the soulbeast the ranger got share stances and with LB + trait we can pierce up to 5 enemies.

Is it true? Is Souldbeast damage so low? (I don’t use arcdps)Aren’t the shared stances useful?Why is the ranger kicked from squads when even the thieves are kept (they have their uses because of their speed and stealth).

archdps is bunch of kitten.so your thinking that a class that can dump aoe all over the place is better DD then class that sits on single dmg?

i mean a thief or ranger can spike down wanted targets like go hunt the backline for scourges its easy for us and we can do it quick if i wack 10 scourges at ones for 1k dmg or i bang down 1 in a 10k+ hit i prefer the last option ill take them down 1 by 1 and let arcdps think all classes are kitten beside AoE classes.

How about doing 10k dmg to 10 targets?

comon man, when i roam on my thief/ranger i eat these blob toons like its nothing.scourge isnt doing dmg alone nor is effective alonefirebrand is same kitten u just put preasure on them and once they are done with all their superior healing bullcrap u slap them around like a wet noodle.

so if scourge according to you is doing 10k dmg to 10 targets it should easily 1 hit everything that is being focused aka the 1v1 u get as roamer..

Sure if you roam with thief and ranger you can kill scourge but if you go for blob fights these classes are useless. You pew pew a scourge a bit they heal they have barrier and dodge back in melee train. You will do no dmg to this scourge anymore. You can oneshot a scourge if they are to far away from the zerg with your thief. But if the scourge is close to the melee and you jump on it with thief you are insta down. Even if the scourge is a bit of tag and in the caster cloud and you jump it with you will likely get casted down by the other scourges and classes. Pew pew ranger and thief is just not viable for blobfights.

Floating in and not far away from squads or blobs is the best way to get xp, especially since most of your stomps are more likely to have some cover. Mid tiers seemed better at protecting their support but a thief who's built to bounce on instinct can quietly dismantle enough to make people scramble and that's the best time for you and other floaters to pick out a few. The higher tier squads were more chancy but you can usually burn and stomp everything faster since the builds were more explosive and with less squad protection in general, but they have way tighter pulls and rushes that sometimes just aren't worth taking the chance if it's a long way to run.

[Dralor.3701]

@steki.1478 said:

@Dralor.3701 said:

@Spurnshadow.3678 said:This age old argument.

It's really simple. It doesn't matter how good you are. If you're playing at range of 1200-1500 to the enemy group, then you have no place in a squad because you're taking up a party slot that could be held by someone that is going to play on or near the tag and contribute boons/cleanses/healing. If you're playing a druid, then odds are you are going to be playing much closer to tag doing heals, etc. When you're that far away, you contribute nothing, therefore, you don't need to be in the squad. Party comp is really important to success in WvW.

There is nothing that says a soulbeast can’t stay on a tag, it isn’t like you need to stand still to fire the bow. Depending on how you spec the GS is also pretty solid damage.

Your bow doesnt have as many aoes as scourge/rev/weaver. You burst 1 target, tag people with 5 and do what after that? Support build (if exists) should always be welcome in melee squad, but a pure dps soulbeast with LB only belongs to dedicated ranged squads/focus parties.

This is also going to vary greatly on traits and other choices, saying there is no support from a soulbeast is crazy (obv not fb tier). If you think someone can’t run around with a GS as part of the melee train you probably haven’t fought as/against too many.

[Blocki.4931]

Classes that aren't really useful for boonsharing/would "steal" boons from important classes aren't really good to have in a squad. Nothing stops you from joining voice comms and just running with them anyway, just that you're going to do your own thing alongside them.