A-Net please get rid of the DPS meters.

[Last Crysis.1934]

Please make all dps meters a bankable offense. They not only made the raid community sour but are finding there way into fractals. I was in a party last night and some of the group wanted to kick the soulbeast because he was not doing alot of damage during the fractal. I am tired of seeing raid elitism entering fractals. The dps of one person should not matter as long as they know the mechanics.

[derd.6413]

ppl in raids/fractals will be elitist with or without a dps meter.besides if you know the mechanics and your build you should do good dps (unless you're on a support build then it's decent dps)

(i'm not saying they weren't acting unreasonably but that's pugs for ya. has nothing to do with a dps meter)

[infrequentia.3465]

all the dps meter showed was that 1 person wasn't pulling their weight.

the elitism was always there.

dps meters are a good way to see where you are doing bad so you can improve.bad apples will always be bad apples with or withouth the meters

and dps will always matter.

some1 doing 1-5k dps is bad unless its a full supporting player

[AliamRationem.5172]

No. I like DPS meters. Let's keep them. Thanks!

Sorry you ran into some people who would rather waste time being nasty to 1 player in a fractal when the time they spent berating that player easily could have made up for any DPS loss!

[Ashen.2907]

DPS meters have allowed classes/builds that were not at all acceptable to be more accepted into group play.

They have had a net positive effect, compared to the prior state of being for pugging group content, on the game.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

I'm not a meter user. I also do not want ANet to use dev resources to make their own. However, as long as the meter does not cause users to violate the Eula, I'm OK with it.

People who are using numbers from the meter as an excuse for exclusion would find some other excuse. I know this because exclusion was the subject of many complaints (at one point someone joked about the thread-of-the-week about "elitism") long before the meter was introduced. The problem is not the tool, it's the user. People who think exclusion has become a problem since the meters were green-lit, or since raids, were either not playing then or not paying attention. Complaints about exclusion go back at least as far as the 4-warriors-and-a-Mesmer CoF 1 speed runs during the game's first years.

[Samnang.1879]

It doesn't give the person an unfair advantage over others, so they won't ban it and I have no problems with it. You mean you want to ban nasty/toxic behaviours, in which case, it's impossible, just grow thicker skin, mute chats, and find a new party. It's that simple.

[Pifil.5193]

This again? I think it's fair to say that at this stage ArenaNet knows the people who like and those who don't like DPS meters. The same posters will chime in with the same points and the same arguments as they made in dozens of other, similar threads.

Speaking of which, here's my repeat: the simple fact is that people were "toxic" without DPS meters. People kicked others because they didn't have the "right" achievements or didn't have enough Achievement Points or didn't link the "right" gear or use the right skills or weapons and so on and so forth.

ArenaNet have said they're OK. They're OK.

[blambidy.3216]

Dps meters depends on the person if it’s good or bad. I usually use it to keep me in check. When someone is doing bad I just make sure I accommodate to get the group through. The only time when I get annoyed is when we can’t finish. But after a couple times, I’ll make a couple suggestions so we can get through. Dps meter is so you can make suggestions. However a lot of people do get toxic.

But there are many things I do not like. Like I don’t understand how people are doing t2s and higher and don’t know the basic mechanics. Ccing bosses. In t1s it’s ok because we all learn. But once we go higher and takes a few times to through, I can see why people get toxic. And honestly I wish people would only go higher if they knew how to make it through. But there been quite a lot that people didn’t understand how to do it.... which makes people want to kick, or trip on people.

A lot of people don’t want to carry people through. Me I’m ok on good days, but once I’m in a frustrated mood, I just leave and start up a new lfg. Sometimes its sad to go through people who are toxic. But then the people who (do) know mechanics wish we got more people who pulled their weight. Let’s not say weight, we wish people would want to listen for advice. Sometimes some people don’t want to listen to suggestions which is also a reason why people just kick instead of going through the arguing.

In all honesty soulbeast is a great class and I pull my weight more than many parties iv been in. So surely it’s just traits and skills you need to be adjusted. However meta builds don’t matter. The thing is if it’s a meta build it’s just easier for the team. However you can do what you want as long as you make it easy for the team to make it through. So as long as you do that, make sure you just get through those things and dps will be gettin better later on.

[Pifil.5193]

@"Samnang.1879" said:It doesn't give the person an unfair advantage over others, so they won't ban it and I have no problems with it. You mean you want to ban nasty/toxic behaviours, in which case, it's impossible, just grow thicker skin, mute chats, and find a new party. It's that simple.

Well, they can ban genuinely toxic players. However someone wanting to kick someone else for playing poorly is not itself a "toxic" act.

In this case, the OP says that some of the group wanted to kick someone.

If they didn't have enough to kick them then that means at most one or two people wanted to kick the soul beast. My friends and I used to run dungeons quite a bit in WoW and occasionally you'd come across someone who wanted to kick someone because they didn't think they were good enough or for some other reason. We'd ignore them but if it got obnoxious and/or they called a kick vote, then we'd vote no and immediately call a vote to kick them instead. A lot more pleasant that way.

[Kururu.8140]

@Last Crysis.1934 said:Please make all dps meters a bankable offense. They not only made the raid community sour but are finding there way into fractals. I was in a party last night and some of the group wanted to kick the soulbeast because he was not doing alot of damage during the fractal. I am tired of seeing raid elitism entering fractals. The dps of one person should not matter as long as they know the mechanics.

Not all of us use it because we want to judge and demean others. I use Arcdps for personal curiosity only- I like knowing how much damage I am doing. I have never once complained at someone in my party for doing low DPS. Some (especially the raid community) are very strict about this, but for those of us who are only using it for ourselves it is very unfair to make an otherwise perfectly acceptable (compliant with the ToS) addition to the game a bannable offence just because you are upset with another player's comments regarding it.

[Omega.6801]

1) Elitism was a thing before DPS meters. Ppl just took more arbitrary things as a measure for excellence. There were no KPs then either so elitism went for "20k AP" or "ping gear or kick".2) Ppl can be toxic, even if you do the damage you should and know all the mechanics. Ppl don't need a reason to be kittens, just a target.3) I would have loved a GW2 w/o raids and all the things that followed, but this is not that GW2 so I like that we got the training area, where ppl have a "laboratory environment" to test things out.4) I don't care that much about other ppl seeing my numbers but I understand where this might be a legitimate issue for others.5) The only reason I have never used a 3rd party program so far is that I want ANet to develop their own tools and the more ppl rely on 3rd party programs to f.e. switch builds or check their statistics, the less ANet is likely to implement the tech by themselves.

[RoseofGilead.8907]

I don't care for DPS meters, and I don't use one for GW2. But using one should not become a bannable offense, as long as said meter remains on the "OK to use" list. Elitism has been there for a long time (AP requirements in LFG listings), and DPS meters aren't making things any worse, really.

[Samnang.1879]

@Pifil.5193 said:

@"Samnang.1879" said:It doesn't give the person an unfair advantage over others, so they won't ban it and I have no problems with it. You mean you want to ban nasty/toxic behaviours, in which case, it's impossible, just grow thicker skin, mute chats, and find a new party. It's that simple.

Well, they can ban genuinely toxic players. However someone wanting to kick someone else for playing poorly is not itself a "toxic" act.

In this case, the OP says that some of the group wanted to kick someone.

If they didn't have enough to kick them then that means at most one or two people wanted to kick the soul beast. My friends and I used to run dungeons quite a bit in WoW and occasionally you'd come across someone who wanted to kick someone because they didn't think they were good enough or for some other reason. We'd ignore them but if it got obnoxious and/or they called a kick vote, then we'd vote no and immediately call a vote to kick

them

instead. A lot more pleasant that way.

That's what I meant by it's impossible... toxicity is subjective. People who come to the forums to complain about toxicity are probably those who are oversensitive; for example, telling someone to "Please try to dodge this attack"... they would view that as toxic because it's telling them what to do. Blaming dps metre is absurd and irrational, either grow thicker skin or improve ur skills or leave the party.

[Dreamy Lu.3865]

@ OP, I don't believe that DPS meter is the root cause. The problem is the behavior of some players. Nothing else. If it is not a DPS meter, it would be whatever other tool: They will always behave the same.

That's why my opinion is still that the best way to deal with such players is just to avoid going into their team. As I am in a guild, I am lucky because I rarely need to go into fractals via the LfG tool. However, it still happens once in a while and when I do, I try to select the party based on description to limit the risk to "land" with such people. If it happens, I rapidly explain why I leave, and then I say sorry and leave.My position is that there is no reason to argue and/or complain, because we are not forced to anything. If a team does not suit us, we can just leave it. That's it. There will always be such players, no need to let them spoil your fun.

Now regarding DPS meter: My personal opinion is that it is just a tool. Like any other tools, even the best ones, it has very good sides but unfortunately, it can be misused. That it is misused has to do with the user, not with the tool itself.

[Devildoc.6721]

IMO no content in game should require third party addons as anet starts doing these bans based on tools they think hack the game might as well put down a clear across the board no addons allowed stance to clear up any confusion as to what is and isn't allowed. If dps meters are so crucial, anet should put them as part of the default UI.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@"Devildoc.6721" said:IMO no content in game should require third party addons as anet starts doing these bans based on tools they think hack the game might as well put down a clear across the board no addons allowed stance to clear up any confusion as to what is and isn't allowed. If dps meters are so crucial, anet should put them as part of the default UI.

It's obviously not required. However, I support the idea of a built-in damage meter. The only problem is that we have a more or less "approved" DPS meter in arcdps. Why reinvent the wheel?

[Ashen.2907]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@"Devildoc.6721" said:IMO no content in game should require third party addons as anet starts doing these bans based on tools they think hack the game might as well put down a clear across the board no addons allowed stance to clear up any confusion as to what is and isn't allowed. If dps meters are so crucial, anet should put them as part of the default UI.

we have a more or less "approved" DPS meter in arcdps. Why reinvent the wheel?

"Use at your own risk," is a pretty solid reason for an official option IMO.

[powerbits.6235]

dps meters are cheating and cost anet money.

[Fallesafe.5932]

@"ToPNoP.2493" said:dps meters are cheating and cost anet money.

Except that they aren't (and don't). But thanks for sharing your feelings.https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/66m13h/anet_this_really_should_be_part_of_the_game/dgjwapj/?st=jg35kfws&sh=c9174555

[Ashen.2907]

@ToPNoP.2493 said:dps meters are cheating and cost anet money.

The people who created and own the game say that it is not cheating.

I would be interested in seeing your data to show that it costs Anet money.

[DeadlySynz.3471]

The quicker they remove the dps meters the better.

[powerbits.6235]

@Ashen.2907 said:

@ToPNoP.2493 said:dps meters are cheating and cost anet money.

The people who created and own the game say that it is not cheating.

I would be interested in seeing your data to show that it costs Anet money.

Oh, that is easy. Seeing data allows you to create a build with ease, costing ANET money from the player not actually playing the game and developing a build. Drops mic...

[Ashen.2907]

@ToPNoP.2493 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@ToPNoP.2493 said:dps meters are cheating and cost anet money.

The people who created and own the game say that it is not cheating.

I would be interested in seeing your data to show that it costs Anet money.

Oh that is easy, seeing my data allows you to create a build with ease, costing money from not actually playing the game and developing a build. Drops mic...

Seeing your DPS does not show me your build.

Having a DPS meter increases the buildcraft aspect of the game for me, encouraging me to spend more time in game. My monetary expenditure on the game can be expressed in terms of dollars per hour played. This means that an official DPS meter increases Anet's income from me.

Here, you dropped this -hands mic back to ToPNop-.

[Fallesafe.5932]

@ToPNoP.2493 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@ToPNoP.2493 said:dps meters are cheating and cost anet money.

The people who created and own the game say that it is not cheating.

I would be interested in seeing your data to show that it costs Anet money.

Oh, that is easy, seeing data allows you to create a build with ease, costing ANET money from the player not actually playing the game and developing a build. Drops mic...

Whaaaaaat?? hahaha

Please DO elaborate on this brilliant postulate...