Time to get rid of Score system

[Kassablanca.5821]

Back to daoc style no score system ppl just play for fun and fight for relics and pride.

[Strider Pj.2193]

No tiers, completely random matchups...

Would love it. 'Tanking' wouldn't need to be a thing, and for servers that are convinced they NEED to be in first in T-1 wouldn't have to worry about that.

[X T D.6458]

Keep the relics, I fight for the women!

[Optimator.3589]

To crush your enemies. See them driven before you. And to hear the lamentations of their women.

[Israel.7056]

How's that working for DAOC?

[LetoII.3782]

When even EA hands off your IP to a fan site....

[powerbits.6235]

just make kills a bigger part of the score pie chart. That way servers would be better matched.

[Ayrilana.1396]

So we'd turn WvW into EotM?

[Vayne.8563]

@Israel.7056 said:How's that working for DAOC?

It worked for DAOC for a long long long time. Keep in mind that that game is 17 years old, not five years old. Let's see how well this game is doing in another twelve years. DAOC made enough of an impression on devs to inspire WvW, so it must have had some impact on the MMO genre.

[Israel.7056]

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Israel.7056 said:How's that working for DAOC?

It worked for DAOC for a long long long time. Keep in mind that that game is 17 years old, not five years old. Let's see how well this game is doing in another twelve years. DAOC made enough of an impression on devs to inspire WvW, so it must have had some impact on the MMO genre.

That's great that it worked at one point in time.

[Vayne.8563]

@Israel.7056 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Israel.7056 said:How's that working for DAOC?

It worked for DAOC for a long long long time. Keep in mind that that game is 17 years old, not five years old. Let's see how well this game is doing in another twelve years. DAOC made enough of an impression on devs to inspire WvW, so it must have had some impact on the MMO genre.

That's great that it worked at one point in time.

Don't know if you're being sarcastic or not, but it could work now as well. There are a lot of things this game is doing that other MMOs aren't doing and against all conventional logic those things work, at least for a percentage of people (which is all anything really works for). I can't think of many MMOs that don't raise the level cap or introduce new tiers of gear with each expansion but that's what this game does. Just because no one else is doing something doesn't mean it won't work. Guild Wars 2 is proof of that.

[Israel.7056]

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Israel.7056 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Israel.7056 said:How's that working for DAOC?

It worked for DAOC for a long long long time. Keep in mind that that game is 17 years old, not five years old. Let's see how well this game is doing in another twelve years. DAOC made enough of an impression on devs to inspire WvW, so it must have had some impact on the MMO genre.

That's great that it worked at one point in time.

Don't know if you're being sarcastic or not, but it could work now as well. There are a lot of things this game is doing that other MMOs aren't doing and against all conventional logic those things work, at least for a percentage of people (which is all anything really works for). I can't think of many MMOs that don't raise the level cap or introduce new tiers of gear with each expansion but that's what this game does. Just because no one else is doing something doesn't mean it won't work. Guild Wars 2 is proof of that.

That's true but there's no reason to think getting rid of the scoring would change anything for the better. If you want to play just for "fun and pride" you can already do that. The scoring system isn't preventing anyone from doing that so why talk about getting rid of the score? Makes no sense.

[Vayne.8563]

@Israel.7056 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Israel.7056 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Israel.7056 said:How's that working for DAOC?

It worked for DAOC for a long long long time. Keep in mind that that game is 17 years old, not five years old. Let's see how well this game is doing in another twelve years. DAOC made enough of an impression on devs to inspire WvW, so it must have had some impact on the MMO genre.

That's great that it worked at one point in time.

Don't know if you're being sarcastic or not, but it could work now as well. There are a lot of things this game is doing that other MMOs aren't doing and against all conventional logic those things work, at least for a percentage of people (which is all anything really works for). I can't think of many MMOs that don't raise the level cap or introduce new tiers of gear with each expansion but that's what this game does. Just because no one else is doing something doesn't mean it won't work. Guild Wars 2 is proof of that.

That's true but there's no reason to think getting rid of the scoring would change anything for the better. If you want to play just for "fun and pride" you can already do that. The scoring system isn't preventing anyone from doing that so why talk about getting rid of the score? Makes no sense.

The problem is, to some people the scoring system is preventing them from having fun. For the record, I'm not in favor of getting rid of it. I have no horse in this race. But there are a lot of people who are focused on numbers so long as numbers are present. I don't think the scoring system will be an issue if the changes to WvW make the sides more even though. I think this problem may well work itself out over time.

[Israel.7056]

@Vayne.8563 said:The problem is, to some people the scoring system is preventing them from having fun. There are a lot of people who are focused on numbers so long as numbers are present.

Then they can just ignore the numbers.

[Vayne.8563]

@Israel.7056 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:The problem is, to some people the scoring system is preventing them from having fun. There are a lot of people who are focused on numbers so long as numbers are present.

Then they can just ignore the numbers.

If only human nature worked that way. Unfortunately it doesn't. If you put a top tier of gear in a game, people will want it whether they need it or not, even if they hate the method of getting it. If you're not doing fractals, raids or WvW, you don't need ascended armor. That doesn't stop people from feeling like they need ascended armor, even though they don't. They can't ignore those numbers, because the numbers are there. Maybe you can. A fair percentage of people can't. I run into this all the time. Casual players who insist they need BIS gear, even though they never intend to do any content that requires it.

[Israel.7056]

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Israel.7056 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:The problem is, to some people the scoring system is preventing them from having fun. There are a lot of people who are focused on numbers so long as numbers are present.

Then they can just ignore the numbers.

If only human nature worked that way. Unfortunately it doesn't. If you put a top tier of gear in a game, people will want it whether they need it or not, even if they hate the method of getting it. If you're not doing fractals, raids or WvW, you don't need ascended armor. That doesn't stop people from feeling like they need ascended armor, even though they don't. They can't ignore those numbers, because the numbers are there. Maybe you can. A fair percentage of people can't. I run into this all the time. Casual players who insist they need BIS gear, even though they never intend to do any content that requires it.

Well then the issue isn't with the game but with the players themselves and their apparent lack of self control. If there are players who genuinely struggle to ignore the score then that's something they need to work on in themselves not something the game can or should attempt to fix. I don't see why the devs should remove features in an effort to cater to the mental fragility of this hypothetical obsessive compulsive subsection of their playerbase.

[Vayne.8563]

@Israel.7056 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Israel.7056 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:The problem is, to some people the scoring system is preventing them from having fun. There are a lot of people who are focused on numbers so long as numbers are present.

Then they can just ignore the numbers.

If only human nature worked that way. Unfortunately it doesn't. If you put a top tier of gear in a game, people will want it whether they need it or not, even if they hate the method of getting it. If you're not doing fractals, raids or WvW, you don't need ascended armor. That doesn't stop people from feeling like they need ascended armor, even though they don't. They can't ignore those numbers, because the numbers are there. Maybe you can. A fair percentage of people can't. I run into this all the time. Casual players who insist they need BIS gear, even though they never intend to do any content that requires it.

Well then the issue isn't with the game but with the players themselves and their apparent lack of self control. If there are players who genuinely struggle to ignore the score then that's something they need to work on in themselves not something the game can or should attempt to fix. I don't see why the devs should remove features in an effort to cater to the mental fragility of this hypothetical obsessive compulsive subsection of their playerbase.

Business doesn't work like that nor should it. If there is something that bothers a large percentage of people, whether it's their own limitations or not, you can't as a business ignore it. Not if you want to stay in business.

It's like saying people who insist on soloing a multiplayer game are making a decision. But there are enough people soloing multiplayer games that no developer can afford to ignore them, nor do they. It's the same with this. Sure everyone should be able to do what needs to be done to enjoy the game. But if they can't, that's not their problem....it's Anet's problem.

[Israel.7056]

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Israel.7056 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Israel.7056 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:The problem is, to some people the scoring system is preventing them from having fun. There are a lot of people who are focused on numbers so long as numbers are present.

Then they can just ignore the numbers.

If only human nature worked that way. Unfortunately it doesn't. If you put a top tier of gear in a game, people will want it whether they need it or not, even if they hate the method of getting it. If you're not doing fractals, raids or WvW, you don't need ascended armor. That doesn't stop people from feeling like they need ascended armor, even though they don't. They can't ignore those numbers, because the numbers are there. Maybe you can. A fair percentage of people can't. I run into this all the time. Casual players who insist they need BIS gear, even though they never intend to do any content that requires it.

Well then the issue isn't with the game but with the players themselves and their apparent lack of self control. If there are players who genuinely struggle to ignore the score then that's something they need to work on in themselves not something the game can or should attempt to fix. I don't see why the devs should remove features in an effort to cater to the mental fragility of this hypothetical obsessive compulsive subsection of their playerbase.

Business doesn't work like that nor should it. If there is something that bothers a large percentage of people, whether it's their own limitations or not, you can't as a business ignore it. Not if you want to stay in business.

It's like saying people who insist on soloing a multiplayer game are making a decision. But there are enough people soloing multiplayer games that no developer can afford to ignore them, nor do they. It's the same with this. Sure everyone should be able to do what needs to be done to enjoy the game. But if they can't, that's not their problem....it's Anet's problem.

I suppose from a purely pragmatic perspective that makes sense in principle assuming one is willing to accept the logical implications of such a principle.

But even thinking along those lines I don't take it as a given that a large enough percentage of players are turned off by the presence of a scoring system to warrant its deletion in order to do better business. I think they're most likely a loud minority with mental health issues.

[Sovereign.1093]

no scores.

servers go up or down based on activity. would be fun

[Vova.2640]

I would say the opposite is the better way to go.I would suggest adding more metrics to measure stuff like guild's performances in wvw. Promote more competition.Wvw is a competitive mode. If you want to "have fun and chill" the whole time then go to PVE (or EotM I guess).

[Strider Pj.2193]

@Sovereign.1093 said:no scores.

servers go up or down based on activity. would be fun

Random matchups week to week. No one has to worry about tanking.

[Vayne.8563]

@Israel.7056 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Israel.7056 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Israel.7056 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:The problem is, to some people the scoring system is preventing them from having fun. There are a lot of people who are focused on numbers so long as numbers are present.

Then they can just ignore the numbers.

If only human nature worked that way. Unfortunately it doesn't. If you put a top tier of gear in a game, people will want it whether they need it or not, even if they hate the method of getting it. If you're not doing fractals, raids or WvW, you don't need ascended armor. That doesn't stop people from feeling like they need ascended armor, even though they don't. They can't ignore those numbers, because the numbers are there. Maybe you can. A fair percentage of people can't. I run into this all the time. Casual players who insist they need BIS gear, even though they never intend to do any content that requires it.

Well then the issue isn't with the game but with the players themselves and their apparent lack of self control. If there are players who genuinely struggle to ignore the score then that's something they need to work on in themselves not something the game can or should attempt to fix. I don't see why the devs should remove features in an effort to cater to the mental fragility of this hypothetical obsessive compulsive subsection of their playerbase.

Business doesn't work like that nor should it. If there is something that bothers a large percentage of people, whether it's their own limitations or not, you can't as a business ignore it. Not if you want to stay in business.

It's like saying people who insist on soloing a multiplayer game are making a decision. But there are enough people soloing multiplayer games that no developer can afford to ignore them, nor do they. It's the same with this. Sure everyone should be able to do what needs to be done to enjoy the game. But if they can't, that's not their problem....it's Anet's problem.

I suppose from a purely pragmatic perspective that makes sense in principle assuming one is willing to accept the logical implications of such a principle.

But even thinking along those lines I don't take it as a given that a large enough percentage of players are turned off by the presence of a scoring system to warrant its deletion in order to do better business. I think they're most likely a loud minority with mental health issues.

Never really a way to tell with this stuff, because a lot of people don't really know what they want, even if they say it. That goes in both directions. We had a very vocal anti mount campaign going on these forums yet mounts are one of the best received features this game has ever had. There's simply no way to tell how this would affect the game. As I said, I'm not for it, but I did speak out because I felt DAOC was a good enough game to defend (in its day).

[Adamsdjr.1350]

I'm on a tier 2 server, Fort Aspenwood, and we go out of our way to stay in tier 2. Guilds are actually coordinating to stay in tier 2 because we don't want to get into tier 1 because we know full well we will get obliterated. There needs to be more incentive for climbing.

[Sarrs.4831]

Does score even do anything? Score for the current skirmish decides your pips which is nice.

Maybe do something when they do the big server rejiggering.

[Strider Pj.2193]

Be careful what you wish for. Making winning 'matter' created the mess in T-1.

Don't say it can't happen. Tweak rewards, but don't tie it to 'winning'