I hope anet plan some nerfs to mesmer in wvw too.

[Zero.3871]

Fought today a huge amount of condi mirages casting perma 6 illusions/phantasms while they give you every second 10 torment/confu/burning.I remember mesmer didnt get any nerfs in Balance patch at december 12th to condi spam like every other class. wonder why? i think there should be still a Point in anets to-do-list for that.

atm i think that is totally unfightable, because that class is VERY tanky because of condi bunker stats+that illusions/phantasm spam give you very high pressure and heavy dmg.that class has mobility like thief + condi spam like scourge + sustain like warrior.

hope anet dont only patch pvp (like they often do) and let wvw skills like they are. some balancing would be great, cause there is no counterplay to that.

[powerbits.6235]

@Zero.3871 said:Fought today a huge amount of condi mirages casting perma 6 illusions/phantasms while they give you every second 10 torment/confu/burning.I remember mesmer didnt get any nerfs in Balance patch at december 12th to condi spam like every other class. wonder why? i think there should be still a Point in anets to-do-list for that.

atm i think that is totally unfightable, because that class is VERY tanky because of condi bunker stats+that illusions/phantasm spam give you very high pressure and heavy dmg.that class has mobility like thief + condi spam like scourge + sustain like warrior.

hope anet dont only patch pvp (like they often do) and let wvw skills like they are. some balancing would be great, cause there is no counterplay to that.

One trick is, if you hit a toon and it does a certain amount of damage, then you can fight it and win. If the damage is below a certain thresh hold, then you can not win and should run. This decision should be immediate and non negotiable. Don't talk yourself into fighting someone in cheese because they jumping and beckoning, you the op one for choosing your fights.

[Simonoly.4352]

Mesmer is in no way as strong or relevant in WvW as it is in PvP so the nerfs will or at least should be far less than what is coming to PvP. Actually, Mesmer needs all it can get to deal with the hoards of Scourge that make up 90% of the game mode right now, plus Mesmer has always been limited in the game mode due to illusions not being able to persist long enough (or at all) during larger scale battles. Also, Mesmer condition output was nerfed in three ways - confusion duration was reduced quite a bit AND the passive tick of confusion was pretty much removed AND they removed confusion from all axe skills so you only really have to worry about one large torment stack now in the case of an axe Mirage.

Mesmer is only a threat in smaller roaming fights which makes up a tiny portion of the WvW experience and it's actually countered very well by S/D Thieves and meta roaming Warrior builds.

[intox.6347]

@Simonoly.4352 said:Mesmer is in no way as strong or relevant in WvW as it is in PvP so the nerfs will or at least should be far less than what is coming to PvP. Actually, Mesmer needs all it can get to deal with the hoards of Scourge that make up 90% of the game mode right now, plus Mesmer has always been limited in the game mode due to illusions not being able to persist long enough (or at all) during larger scale battles. Also, Mesmer condition output was nerfed in three ways - confusion duration was reduced quite a bit AND the passive tick of confusion was pretty much removed AND they removed confusion from all axe skills so you only really have to worry about one large torment stack now in the case of an axe Mirage.

Mesmer is only a threat in smaller roaming fights which makes up a tiny portion of the WvW experience and it's actually countered very well by S/D Thieves and meta roaming Warrior builds.

Its like with deadeye... strong against 1v1 ... useless in bigger group play... mesmers are now top duelers.... if i want easy roaming day... i pick one of mine mesmers... but if you join group... you are pretty useless...

[apharma.3741]

@intox.6347 said:

@Simonoly.4352 said:Mesmer is in no way as strong or relevant in WvW as it is in PvP so the nerfs will or at least should be far less than what is coming to PvP. Actually, Mesmer needs all it can get to deal with the hoards of Scourge that make up 90% of the game mode right now, plus Mesmer has always been limited in the game mode due to illusions not being able to persist long enough (or at all) during larger scale battles. Also, Mesmer condition output was nerfed in three ways - confusion duration was reduced quite a bit AND the passive tick of confusion was pretty much removed AND they removed confusion from all axe skills so you only really have to worry about one large torment stack now in the case of an axe Mirage.

Mesmer is only a threat in smaller roaming fights which makes up a tiny portion of the WvW experience and it's actually countered very well by S/D Thieves and meta roaming Warrior builds.

Its like with deadeye... strong against 1v1 ... useless in bigger group play... mesmers are now top duelers.... if i want easy roaming day... i pick one of mine mesmers... but if you join group... you are pretty useless...

Yeah both DE and mesmers can play very safe, very lame builds which pretty much cannot lose a 1v1 or at least can always disengage and reset.

Don’t fight a condi mesmer in WvW, 99 times out of 100 they’re running PU, high mobility and all but immune to stuns and conditions through elusive mind and incredibly tanky with trailblazer. It’s one of the lamest builds in WvW and no point to fighting.

[Dawdler.8521]

@apharma.3741 said:

@intox.6347 said:

@Simonoly.4352 said:Mesmer is in no way as strong or relevant in WvW as it is in PvP so the nerfs will or at least should be far less than what is coming to PvP. Actually, Mesmer needs all it can get to deal with the hoards of Scourge that make up 90% of the game mode right now, plus Mesmer has always been limited in the game mode due to illusions not being able to persist long enough (or at all) during larger scale battles. Also, Mesmer condition output was nerfed in three ways - confusion duration was reduced quite a bit AND the passive tick of confusion was pretty much removed AND they removed confusion from all axe skills so you only really have to worry about one large torment stack now in the case of an axe Mirage.

Mesmer is only a threat in smaller roaming fights which makes up a tiny portion of the WvW experience and it's actually countered very well by S/D Thieves and meta roaming Warrior builds.

Its like with deadeye... strong against 1v1 ... useless in bigger group play... mesmers are now top duelers.... if i want easy roaming day... i pick one of mine mesmers... but if you join group... you are pretty useless...

Yeah both DE and mesmers can play very safe, very lame builds which pretty much cannot lose a 1v1 or at least can always disengage and reset.

Don’t fight a condi mesmer in WvW, 99 times out of 100 they’re running PU, high mobility and all but immune to stuns and conditions through elusive mind and incredibly tanky with trailblazer. It’s one of the lamest builds in WvW and no point to fighting.Oh I love fighting condi mesmers on my bruiser mirage, because 9 out of 10 dont stand a chance 1v1 since their weak condi is rarely a threat for my cleanse, unless they are simply a much better player.

Spellbreakers are nearly impossible to kill in comparison and a far, far, faaaaaaaar greater threat when roaming. Its basicly pointless to fight them on the same build I can roflstomp condi mesmers on.

[apharma.3741]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@intox.6347 said:

@Simonoly.4352 said:Mesmer is in no way as strong or relevant in WvW as it is in PvP so the nerfs will or at least should be far less than what is coming to PvP. Actually, Mesmer needs all it can get to deal with the hoards of Scourge that make up 90% of the game mode right now, plus Mesmer has always been limited in the game mode due to illusions not being able to persist long enough (or at all) during larger scale battles. Also, Mesmer condition output was nerfed in three ways - confusion duration was reduced quite a bit AND the passive tick of confusion was pretty much removed AND they removed confusion from all axe skills so you only really have to worry about one large torment stack now in the case of an axe Mirage.

Mesmer is only a threat in smaller roaming fights which makes up a tiny portion of the WvW experience and it's actually countered very well by S/D Thieves and meta roaming Warrior builds.

Its like with deadeye... strong against 1v1 ... useless in bigger group play... mesmers are now top duelers.... if i want easy roaming day... i pick one of mine mesmers... but if you join group... you are pretty useless...

Yeah both DE and mesmers can play very safe, very lame builds which pretty much cannot lose a 1v1 or at least can always disengage and reset.

Don’t fight a condi mesmer in WvW, 99 times out of 100 they’re running PU, high mobility and all but immune to stuns and conditions through elusive mind and incredibly tanky with trailblazer. It’s one of the lamest builds in WvW and no point to fighting.Oh I love fighting condi mesmers on my bruiser mirage, because 9 out of 10 dont stand a chance 1v1 since their weak condi is rarely a threat for my cleanse, unless they are simply a much better player.

Spellbreakers are nearly impossible to kill in comparison and a far, far,

faaaaaaaar

greater threat when roaming. Its basicly pointless to fight them on the same build I can roflstomp condi mesmers on.

Sure but you won’t kill the condi mesmer either unless you’re better than them and they didn’t bother to reset when low. They can however, in the lame builds, keep following you till it’s an uneven fight, especially for a DE that really wants that kill.

[Dawdler.8521]

@apharma.3741 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@intox.6347 said:

@Simonoly.4352 said:Mesmer is in no way as strong or relevant in WvW as it is in PvP so the nerfs will or at least should be far less than what is coming to PvP. Actually, Mesmer needs all it can get to deal with the hoards of Scourge that make up 90% of the game mode right now, plus Mesmer has always been limited in the game mode due to illusions not being able to persist long enough (or at all) during larger scale battles. Also, Mesmer condition output was nerfed in three ways - confusion duration was reduced quite a bit AND the passive tick of confusion was pretty much removed AND they removed confusion from all axe skills so you only really have to worry about one large torment stack now in the case of an axe Mirage.

Mesmer is only a threat in smaller roaming fights which makes up a tiny portion of the WvW experience and it's actually countered very well by S/D Thieves and meta roaming Warrior builds.

Its like with deadeye... strong against 1v1 ... useless in bigger group play... mesmers are now top duelers.... if i want easy roaming day... i pick one of mine mesmers... but if you join group... you are pretty useless...

Yeah both DE and mesmers can play very safe, very lame builds which pretty much cannot lose a 1v1 or at least can always disengage and reset.

Don’t fight a condi mesmer in WvW, 99 times out of 100 they’re running PU, high mobility and all but immune to stuns and conditions through elusive mind and incredibly tanky with trailblazer. It’s one of the lamest builds in WvW and no point to fighting.Oh I love fighting condi mesmers on my bruiser mirage, because 9 out of 10 dont stand a chance 1v1 since their weak condi is rarely a threat for my cleanse, unless they are simply a much better player.

Spellbreakers are nearly impossible to kill in comparison and a far, far,

faaaaaaaar

greater threat when roaming. Its basicly pointless to fight them on the same build I can roflstomp condi mesmers on.

Sure but you won’t kill the condi mesmer either unless you’re better than them and they didn’t bother to reset when low. They can however, in the lame builds, keep following you till it’s an uneven fight, especially for a DE that really wants that kill.Eh the only way they escape is if they run before engaging. Most dont. Remember I said I was running a bruiser mirage, so similar mobility. Most runners die to greatsword autoattacks as you follow. You can get them down to 50% hp before they even start getting their condi on you, the rest is just mopping it up and timing shatters between evades, which is easy when said 9 out of 10 run meta builds using predictable meta tactics (even though they hurt alot more thieves behave similar, making most of them easy kills too).

[KrHome.1920]

@intox.6347 said:

@Simonoly.4352 said:Mesmer is in no way as strong or relevant in WvW as it is in PvP so the nerfs will or at least should be far less than what is coming to PvP. Actually, Mesmer needs all it can get to deal with the hoards of Scourge that make up 90% of the game mode right now, plus Mesmer has always been limited in the game mode due to illusions not being able to persist long enough (or at all) during larger scale battles. Also, Mesmer condition output was nerfed in three ways - confusion duration was reduced quite a bit AND the passive tick of confusion was pretty much removed AND they removed confusion from all axe skills so you only really have to worry about one large torment stack now in the case of an axe Mirage.

Mesmer is only a threat in smaller roaming fights which makes up a tiny portion of the WvW experience and it's actually countered very well by S/D Thieves and meta roaming Warrior builds.

Its like with deadeye... strong against 1v1 ... useless in bigger group play... mesmers are now top duelers.... if i want easy roaming day... i pick one of mine mesmers... but if you join group... you are pretty useless...Yes and this is not an excuse to not touch the class in wvw (what Simonoly would like to see).

If it's broken in 1v1 than fix it for 1v1. If it's broken in large scale, then fix it for large scale. Simple as that!

But don't say its overpowered state in 1v1 is fine, because it is underpowered in large scale. That's just stupid and completely misses the point.

Good class design and balancing results in a balanced viability for every spec in every game mode.

[intox.6347]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@intox.6347 said:

@Simonoly.4352 said:Mesmer is in no way as strong or relevant in WvW as it is in PvP so the nerfs will or at least should be far less than what is coming to PvP. Actually, Mesmer needs all it can get to deal with the hoards of Scourge that make up 90% of the game mode right now, plus Mesmer has always been limited in the game mode due to illusions not being able to persist long enough (or at all) during larger scale battles. Also, Mesmer condition output was nerfed in three ways - confusion duration was reduced quite a bit AND the passive tick of confusion was pretty much removed AND they removed confusion from all axe skills so you only really have to worry about one large torment stack now in the case of an axe Mirage.

Mesmer is only a threat in smaller roaming fights which makes up a tiny portion of the WvW experience and it's actually countered very well by S/D Thieves and meta roaming Warrior builds.

Its like with deadeye... strong against 1v1 ... useless in bigger group play... mesmers are now top duelers.... if i want easy roaming day... i pick one of mine mesmers... but if you join group... you are pretty useless...

Yeah both DE and mesmers can play very safe, very lame builds which pretty much cannot lose a 1v1 or at least can always disengage and reset.

Don’t fight a condi mesmer in WvW, 99 times out of 100 they’re running PU, high mobility and all but immune to stuns and conditions through elusive mind and incredibly tanky with trailblazer. It’s one of the lamest builds in WvW and no point to fighting.Oh I love fighting condi mesmers on my bruiser mirage, because 9 out of 10 dont stand a chance 1v1 since their weak condi is rarely a threat for my cleanse, unless they are simply a much better player.

Spellbreakers are nearly impossible to kill in comparison and a far, far,

faaaaaaaar

greater threat when roaming. Its basicly pointless to fight them on the same build I can roflstomp condi mesmers on.

We talking about hating fire, and you say you can beat fire easily with napalm :D power mesmer is same abomination as condi variant :D both are way to hard to duel.... i know that ... i have 3 roaming mesmers and iam mostly bored from gameplay

[bigo.9037]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@intox.6347 said:

@"Simonoly.4352" said:Mesmer is in no way as strong or relevant in WvW as it is in PvP so the nerfs will or at least should be far less than what is coming to PvP. Actually, Mesmer needs all it can get to deal with the hoards of Scourge that make up 90% of the game mode right now, plus Mesmer has always been limited in the game mode due to illusions not being able to persist long enough (or at all) during larger scale battles. Also, Mesmer condition output was nerfed in three ways - confusion duration was reduced quite a bit AND the passive tick of confusion was pretty much removed AND they removed confusion from all axe skills so you only really have to worry about one large torment stack now in the case of an axe Mirage.

Mesmer is only a threat in smaller roaming fights which makes up a tiny portion of the WvW experience and it's actually countered very well by S/D Thieves and meta roaming Warrior builds.

Its like with deadeye... strong against 1v1 ... useless in bigger group play... mesmers are now top duelers.... if i want easy roaming day... i pick one of mine mesmers... but if you join group... you are pretty useless...

Yeah both DE and mesmers can play very safe, very lame builds which pretty much cannot lose a 1v1 or at least can always disengage and reset.

Don’t fight a condi mesmer in WvW, 99 times out of 100 they’re running PU, high mobility and all but immune to stuns and conditions through elusive mind and incredibly tanky with trailblazer. It’s one of the lamest builds in WvW and no point to fighting.Oh I love fighting condi mesmers on my bruiser mirage, because 9 out of 10 dont stand a chance 1v1 since their weak condi is rarely a threat for my cleanse, unless they are simply a much better player.

Spellbreakers are nearly impossible to kill in comparison and a far, far,

faaaaaaaar

greater threat when roaming. Its basicly pointless to fight them on the same build I can roflstomp condi mesmers on.

Sure but you won’t kill the condi mesmer either unless you’re better than them and they didn’t bother to reset when low. They can however, in the lame builds, keep following you till it’s an uneven fight, especially for a DE that really wants that kill.Eh the only way they escape is if they run before engaging. Most dont. Remember I said I was running a bruiser mirage, so similar mobility. Most runners die to greatsword autoattacks as you follow. You can get them down to 50% hp before they even start getting their condi on you, the rest is just mopping it up and timing shatters between evades, which is easy when said 9 out of 10 run meta builds using predictable meta tactics (even though they hurt alot more thieves behave similar, making most of them easy kills too).

Even more proof mirage and mesmer in general needs to be nerfed.

To add to the discussion id like to list some absolute bullshit that happens when fighting mesmers that arent even playing condition builds.I cant possibly be the only one who has been basically one-shot in both spvp and wvw by a gs mesmer or mirage. in wvw its the worst cus they can stealth from far away, get to the right distance and BAM youre dead with no time to react cus they can pull off their dps combo in less than 1 second FROM STEALTH.I play Soulbeast, and im using the passive healing trait that heals me for 4.6k ( i have about 450 healingpower ) instead of dying. That would mean the mesmer would have to deal about 21.5K hp to kill me in less than one second. with multiple strikes. think about that.

If i want to deal 20 k dmg and i even had quickness id still need about 4 seconds and NOTHING to interrupt me or no evades. Combo is Maul, Wordly impact, hilt bash, Maul. that would probably hit for about 20 k on someone with a similar amount of armor. But mesmer can pull off their whole combo in stealth and deal all that dmg so quickly theres no way to counterplay it. i mean.. jesus.

At least DE has counterplay. it hits hard, but its 1 hit. so traits will proc. they have permastealth.. ok. thats aids. BUT.. you can hear when they are using their skills. ALSO.. most of them have to wait around for a while before they can charge up enough of those thingies to 1 shot you.Mesmer? instant. As long as they dont have cooldowns they can just go ahead and pull of their 1shotcombo on you.

"b-b-but they die easy too cus they are full zerk thats why they can 1 hit you!!" so what? thats terrible game design. thats like saying " well i can only get ONE free kill and then ill get nuked myself cus im playing glass" ...... thing is, nobody should get free kills with no counter play. thats just stupid.

ANy class or spec that can pull off a combo from stealth that kills you in less than 1 second needs to be removed or nerfed heavily. they ruin the balance of the game completely.

I am not against dps builds. I much prefer this meta to the old 2015 bunker meta. but nothign has been done to 1 shot mesmers ever.

[bq pd.2148]

@bigo.9037 said:ANy class or spec that can pull off a combo from stealth that kills you in less than 1 second needs to be removed or nerfed heavily. they ruin the balance of the game completely.I am not against dps builds. I much prefer this meta to the old 2015 bunker meta.

how much damage is oke to be pulled off a combo from stealth? you are right that in most cases DE oneshots do not really come by suprise and you get the chance to avoid them, but depending on the target i face for instance many glass mesmer / FA ele and often against thieves now i can even onehit with a backstab without marking them for up to 20k, then they got even less counterplay then to a mesmer. but in most builds against non glass, backstab doesnt really hit hard. onehitting a glass eles 11645 hp is not really hard, but the damage required to burst such an ele hardly will be enough to kill a bunker.

[bigo.9037]

@MUDse.7623 said:

@"bigo.9037" said:ANy class or spec that can pull off a combo from stealth that kills you in less than 1 second needs to be removed or nerfed heavily. they ruin the balance of the game completely.I am not against dps builds. I much prefer this meta to the old 2015 bunker meta.

how much damage is oke to be pulled off a combo from stealth? you are right that in most cases DE oneshots do not really come by suprise and you get the chance to avoid them, but depending on the target i face for instance many glass mesmer / FA ele and often against thieves now i can even onehit with a backstab without marking them for up to 20k, then they got even less counterplay then to a mesmer. but in most builds against non glass, backstab doesnt really hit hard. onehitting a glass eles 11645 hp is not really hard, but the damage required to burst such an ele hardly will be enough to kill a bunker.

thats the never ending problem of gw2. they want things balanced for wvw.... so they add absurd bunker builds and absurd dmg builds as countermeasures.the bunker builds in wvw are far too strong to ever die in 1v1. maybe that is fair, maybe it is not. the dps builds that can take down said bunker builds are wayy too strong in small scale or 1v1.

I dont like bunker meta.. but being able to "not die" in 1v1 or 2v2 isnt as good as being able to 1 shot someone 1v1 from stealth. especially when you arent aware that they are about to burst you ( like mesmers ). DE has decent game design other than SA making them also unkillable which is just aids if they keep following you around after trying 10 times but fail their 1 shot and then they laugh and jump on your corpse when you died after their 11th try.

Give 1 shot mesmers counterplay and im happy tbh. but anet will never do that ofc cus they hardly ever nerf mesmers.

[Sylosi.6503]

@KrHome.1920 said:If it's broken in 1v1 than fix it for 1v1. If it's broken in large scale, then fix it for large scale. Simple as that!

Except it isn't simple, because basically to even vaguely balance things across WvW/PvP/PvE and all the different situations within from 1v1 to blobs, you would have to make how you can build characters much, much more restrictive, which would mean a complete redesign of the trait/skill/weapon/rune/stats systems.

[mulzi.8273]

@Sylosi.6503 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:If it's broken in 1v1 than fix it for 1v1. If it's broken in large scale, then fix it for large scale. Simple as that!

Except it isn't simple, because basically to even vaguely balance things across WvW/PvP/PvE and all the different situations within from 1v1 to blobs, you would have to make how you can build characters much, much more restrictive, which would mean a complete redesign of the trait/skill/weapon/rune/stats systems.

add in a .25/.50 cast time on each skill in the cheese shot. That would address the 5-6 skills at once one-shot cheese. For condi mesmer or any stealth class, make it so you cannot stealth if you have condi/dmg ticking on a target. At least puts some risk involved with it, without affecting group play much.

[Dawdler.8521]

@"bigo.9037" said:If i want to deal 20 k dmg and i even had quickness id still need about 4 seconds and NOTHING to interrupt me or no evades. Combo is Maul, Wordly impact, hilt bash, Maul. that would probably hit for about 20 k on someone with a similar amount of armor. But mesmer can pull off their whole combo in stealth and deal all that dmg so quickly theres no way to counterplay it. i mean.. jesus.

If my post is proof that mesmer and mirage "in general" is OP and needs to be nerfed, then by proxy a situation me and my guildie was in the other day mean that the soulbeast with lb/gs is super OP and definetly need to be nerfed. He also runs power mirage and met a soulbeast while I was a fair distance away. When I arrived, he was dead. My guildie the power mirage I mean. Not the soulbeast. I engaged him and god damn. He did so much damage while being tough as nails to deal damage to. I got him down to like 60% a couple of times over the minute or so worth of fighting, but he just healed up everything and wore me down with the greatsword more than the longbow (he knew how to fight mesmers with traited reflect). So that soulbeast killed two mirages in quick succession. Dont ask me what build he used - I havent a clue. Its one of those situations where you go "I wish I could play soulbeast like that cause I instantly die on it".

Point is, everyone is kitten OP if you look hard enough.

[coro.3176]

Yeah, it is pretty busted in WvW at least for small fights and roaming. I'm usually keen to engage in 1v1s 1v2s, in WvW when I see them, but if I see a chrono or mirage, I don't bother.

It's not a fun fight, and I have to outplay them by so much more than I should in order to win. Meanwhile, any mistake on my end is instant death.

[XenesisII.1540]

Underwater mesmer clones now wear aquatic headgear that match what their summoner is wearing.

Signet of the Ether: This skill now reduces the recharge of phantasm skills by 50% rather than 100% in PvP and WvW.

[Strider Pj.2193]

As long as the classes are used in Zergs, small group roaming and 1v1, there will be classes with advantages in each area.

WvW was never meant to be balanced for 1v1. The closest you have for that is sPvP, which isn't even made to be balanced for 1v1.

The sooner people get past this, the better.

Until a class consistently is able to 1v3, changes shouldn't be made. (Or solo a raid boss...)

[Rasp Sabreblade.5421]

As reading through this - the thing that gets me is the complaint isn't so much about the Mesmer or thief, but about stealth.Stealth is a broken and cancerous mechanic, and when paired with hard hitting condi combos becomes OP.

Maybe stealth should be a boon that can be stripped and/or converted. There needs to be more ways to reveal stealthed ppl. Maybe one of the existing conditions should block stealth from working, or a new condition should be implemented such as an anti-stealth/anti-teleport.

The other cancer that needs to be addressed is invulnerability. This either needs to become a boon to strip/corrupt or a break bar needs to be implemented. Just straight up invuln is a broken mechanic.

[bq pd.2148]

@Rasp Sabreblade.5421 said:As reading through this - the thing that gets me is the complaint isn't so much about the Mesmer or thief, but about stealth.Stealth is a broken and cancerous mechanic, and when paired with hard hitting condi combos becomes OP.

Maybe stealth should be a boon that can be stripped and/or converted. There needs to be more ways to reveal stealthed ppl. Maybe one of the existing conditions should block stealth from working, or a new condition should be implemented such as an anti-stealth/anti-teleport.

The other cancer that needs to be addressed is invulnerability. This either needs to become a boon to strip/corrupt or a break bar needs to be implemented. Just straight up invuln is a broken mechanic.

the main complaint about stealth is a stealth opener. no condition preventing stealth or reveal skill will help you there.

mid fight short stealth is rather weak defense in 1vs1, decent target break in group fights.long stealth mid fight is prett much resulting in a reset for both, tho in case of SA thief, the thief will reset alot faster. but aside from that it is as any other disengage.

such a condition or reveal skills will only adress midfight stealth, wich IMO is fine in most cases and wont help with the issue people have with stealth -> oneshot.

the only good way i can think of to reduce stealth ganks is to add a tell, for example stealth noise: creating sound of footsteps while in stealth, louder when closer or multiple opponents in stealth.

[XenesisII.1540]

Just have to look at world of warcraft to get some hints on how to deal with stealth.There's a distinct noise for stealth (no matter the class) when someone is around you in it.You can catch an outline glimpse of someone in stealth if they are in front of you and moving.When they attack it breaks stealth, their stealth have longer cooldowns, it's used to start or escape combat, not full time use in combat. But they also can't be hit with damage while in stealth if I remember correctly to counter this (been a really long time since I played with stealth there).There's no need for kitten like stealth traps and reveal skills only available to certain classes in there.

[Shadowcat.2680]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"bigo.9037" said:If i want to deal 20 k dmg and i even had quickness id still need about 4 seconds and NOTHING to interrupt me or no evades. Combo is Maul, Wordly impact, hilt bash, Maul. that would probably hit for about 20 k on someone with a similar amount of armor. But mesmer can pull off their whole combo in stealth and deal all that dmg so quickly theres no way to counterplay it. i mean.. jesus.

If my post is proof that mesmer and mirage "in general" is OP and needs to be nerfed, then by proxy a situation me and my guildie was in the other day mean that the soulbeast with lb/gs is super OP and

definetly

need to be nerfed. He also runs power mirage and met a soulbeast while I was a fair distance away. When I arrived, he was dead. My guildie the power mirage I mean. Not the soulbeast. I engaged him and god kitten. He did so much damage while being tough as nails to deal damage to. I got him down to like 60% a couple of times over the minute or so worth of fighting, but he just healed up everything and wore me down with the greatsword more than the longbow (he knew how to fight mesmers with traited reflect). So that soulbeast killed two mirages in quick succession. Dont ask me what build he used - I havent a clue. Its one of those situations where you go "I wish I could play soulbeast like that cause I instantly die on it".

Point is, everyone is kitten OP if you look hard enough.

Soulbeast won't carry someone the way mirage will. A bad soulbeast dies horribly every time. A bad mirage will be carried by the mirage mechanics and can at least run to reset the fight with their multiple teleports if they somehow fail to be any good with the constant target breaking and clone/phantasm spam while getting evade frames with each dodge roll, dodges they can do while cc'ed or immobilized.

[Optimator.3589]

@XenesisII.1540 said:Just have to look at world of warcraft to get some hints on how to deal with stealth.There's a distinct noise for stealth (no matter the class) when someone is around you in it.You can catch an outline glimpse of someone in stealth if they are in front of you and moving.When they attack it breaks stealth, their stealth have longer cooldowns, it's used to start or escape combat, not full time use in combat. But they also can't be hit with damage while in stealth if I remember correctly to counter this (been a really long time since I played with stealth there).There's no need for kitten like stealth traps and reveal skills only available to certain classes in there.

Doing damage to a stealthed rogue/druid popped them out of stealth last I played, so players of said classes need to avoid AoEs/cleaves/etc. And the reveal you're thinking of is the Flare ability that hunters get. Which actually functions more or less the same as a stealth distruptor trap, except that enemies can see it.

You can't actually enter regular stealth while in combat, either. Rogue Vanish is the only way I remember to regain stealth in the middle of a fight. Otherwise, you're limited to the very iffy NE shadowmeld.

[XenesisII.1540]

@Optimator.3589 said:

@XenesisII.1540 said:Just have to look at world of warcraft to get some hints on how to deal with stealth.There's a distinct noise for stealth (no matter the class) when someone is around you in it.You can catch an outline glimpse of someone in stealth if they are in front of you and moving.When they attack it breaks stealth, their stealth have longer cooldowns, it's used to start or escape combat, not full time use in combat. But they also can't be hit with damage while in stealth if I remember correctly to counter this (been a really long time since I played with stealth there).There's no need for kitten like stealth traps and reveal skills only available to certain classes in there.

Doing damage to a stealthed rogue/druid popped them out of stealth last I played, so players of said classes need to avoid AoEs/cleaves/etc. And the reveal you're thinking of is the Flare ability that hunters get. Which actually functions more or less the same as a stealth distruptor trap, except that enemies can see it.

You can't actually enter regular stealth while in combat, either. Rogue Vanish is the only way I remember to regain stealth in the middle of a fight. Otherwise, you're limited to the very iffy NE shadowmeld.

Yup to all of that, forgot about flares too but to me isn't really necessary like a stealth trap is, when there's all those other small hints of detection.