I hope anet plan some nerfs to mesmer in wvw too.

[morrolan.9608]

Scourges need to be nerfed as a priority far more than any other class.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Shadowcat.2680 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"bigo.9037" said:If i want to deal 20 k dmg and i even had quickness id still need about 4 seconds and NOTHING to interrupt me or no evades. Combo is Maul, Wordly impact, hilt bash, Maul. that would probably hit for about 20 k on someone with a similar amount of armor. But mesmer can pull off their whole combo in stealth and deal all that dmg so quickly theres no way to counterplay it. i mean.. jesus.

If my post is proof that mesmer and mirage "in general" is OP and needs to be nerfed, then by proxy a situation me and my guildie was in the other day mean that the soulbeast with lb/gs is super OP and

definetly

need to be nerfed. He also runs power mirage and met a soulbeast while I was a fair distance away. When I arrived, he was dead. My guildie the power mirage I mean. Not the soulbeast. I engaged him and god kitten. He did so much damage while being tough as nails to deal damage to. I got him down to like 60% a couple of times over the minute or so worth of fighting, but he just healed up everything and wore me down with the greatsword more than the longbow (he knew how to fight mesmers with traited reflect). So that soulbeast killed two mirages in quick succession. Dont ask me what build he used - I havent a clue. Its one of those situations where you go "I wish I could play soulbeast like that cause I instantly die on it".

Point is, everyone is kitten OP if you look hard enough.

Soulbeast won't carry someone the way mirage will. A bad soulbeast dies horribly every time. A bad mirage will be carried by the mirage mechanics and can at least run to reset the fight with their multiple teleports if they somehow fail to be any good with the constant target breaking and clone/phantasm spam while getting evade frames with each dodge roll, dodges they can do while cc'ed or immobilized.

A bad mirage wont get carried much better than a bad soulbeast. Bad mirages and mesmers in general are about as easy to kill. And if you want to talk about being carried then mesmer isnt all that impressive regardless - there is a reason its one of the rarest classes seen in WvW (even in smallscale). The spellbreaker is a far greater offender in that area, just pick adrenal health, healing signet and lean back, congrats you just became near unkillable against anything that doesnt bring a ton of condi, just full counter them to death. Which of course lead to the scourge, that kind of condi overload can make even the worst player a significant threat just by facerolling the keyboard, yes even in 1v1.

But granted, the only class I consider "not carriable by any of its mechanic" is the elementalist, simply because the more you look into it, the more kitten complicated it gets.

[whoknocks.4935]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@intox.6347 said:

@Simonoly.4352 said:Mesmer is in no way as strong or relevant in WvW as it is in PvP so the nerfs will or at least should be far less than what is coming to PvP. Actually, Mesmer needs all it can get to deal with the hoards of Scourge that make up 90% of the game mode right now, plus Mesmer has always been limited in the game mode due to illusions not being able to persist long enough (or at all) during larger scale battles. Also, Mesmer condition output was nerfed in three ways - confusion duration was reduced quite a bit AND the passive tick of confusion was pretty much removed AND they removed confusion from all axe skills so you only really have to worry about one large torment stack now in the case of an axe Mirage.

Mesmer is only a threat in smaller roaming fights which makes up a tiny portion of the WvW experience and it's actually countered very well by S/D Thieves and meta roaming Warrior builds.

Its like with deadeye... strong against 1v1 ... useless in bigger group play... mesmers are now top duelers.... if i want easy roaming day... i pick one of mine mesmers... but if you join group... you are pretty useless...

Yeah both DE and mesmers can play very safe, very lame builds which pretty much cannot lose a 1v1 or at least can always disengage and reset.

Don’t fight a condi mesmer in WvW, 99 times out of 100 they’re running PU, high mobility and all but immune to stuns and conditions through elusive mind and incredibly tanky with trailblazer. It’s one of the lamest builds in WvW and no point to fighting.Oh I love fighting condi mesmers on my bruiser mirage, because 9 out of 10 dont stand a chance 1v1 since their weak condi is rarely a threat for my cleanse, unless they are simply a much better player.

Spellbreakers are nearly impossible to kill in comparison and a far, far,

faaaaaaaar

greater threat when roaming. Its basicly pointless to fight them on the same build I can roflstomp condi mesmers on.

Spellbreakers shines better in group fights because full counter is so easy to proc on those fights.

In solo core warrior is superior because can land a stun and oneshot you with axe burst, unless you play a crazy tanky build.

Spellbreakers 1v1 are not impossible to defeat and actually i have to much fun fighting a sb, obvious animations to dodge, don't proc full counter, kite etc.

Fighting a mesmer i have no clue what to do, since there are constantly 10+ clones on the screen spammed, dunno when to dodge (apart from gs skills on power mesmer), but the other variants are just lame, cheesy and unfun to play against.

[Shadowcat.2680]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

there is a reason its one of the rarest classes seen in WvW (even in smallscale)My experience of late (in NA T3) has been the exact opposite. Mesmers galore in smallscale/roaming, mirages in particular. Power mirages far more frequently than condi.

[apharma.3741]

@Shadowcat.2680 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

there is a reason its one of the rarest classes seen in WvW (even in smallscale)My experience of late (in NA T3) has been the exact opposite. Mesmers galore in smallscale/roaming, mirages in particular. Power mirages far more frequently than condi.

T1 EU, I see a lot trying the high defence chaos, insp chrono build, I see a lot of them dying too. I see far more power shatter mesmers than that build or phantasm spam mesmers most of them run PU and spend half their time in stealth. Even then I don’t see them representing more of the roaming population than any other class.

I would say thief, mesmer, ranger, warrior (Sb and core) and holo are all mostly equally represented from the servers I’ve seen because they all have low risk high mobility reward builds.

[Dawdler.8521]

@"whoknocks.4935" said:Fighting a mesmer i have no clue what to do, since there are constantly 10+ clones on the screen spammed, dunno when to dodge (apart from gs skills on power mesmer), but the other variants are just lame, cheesy and unfun to play against.Well not contantly...

Look the real issue here is who do mesmers complain to when they meet lame, cheesy and unfun OP mesmers?Answer me that, hummingbird.

(the Signet Of Ether nerf is probably to blaim. It's a sad day for mesmers)

[whoknocks.4935]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"whoknocks.4935" said:Fighting a mesmer i have no clue what to do, since there are constantly 10+ clones on the screen spammed, dunno when to dodge (apart from gs skills on power mesmer), but the other variants are just lame, cheesy and unfun to play against.Well not

contantly

...

Look the real issue here is

who do mesmers complain to when they meet lame, cheesy and unfun OP mesmers?

Answer me that, hummingbird.

(the Signet Of Ether nerf is probably to blaim. It's a sad day for mesmers)

Even pretty new players after a week of playing it just become good and cancerous at the profession.

A bad player can kill a more skillful player just because of the profession.

A good rank 3000 guy with years of experience is nearly unkillable unless he mess up somehow.

[bigo.9037]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"bigo.9037" said:If i want to deal 20 k dmg and i even had quickness id still need about 4 seconds and NOTHING to interrupt me or no evades. Combo is Maul, Wordly impact, hilt bash, Maul. that would probably hit for about 20 k on someone with a similar amount of armor. But mesmer can pull off their whole combo in stealth and deal all that dmg so quickly theres no way to counterplay it. i mean.. jesus.

If my post is proof that mesmer and mirage "in general" is OP and needs to be nerfed, then by proxy a situation me and my guildie was in the other day mean that the soulbeast with lb/gs is super OP and

definetly

need to be nerfed. He also runs power mirage and met a soulbeast while I was a fair distance away. When I arrived, he was dead. My guildie the power mirage I mean. Not the soulbeast. I engaged him and god kitten. He did so much damage while being tough as nails to deal damage to. I got him down to like 60% a couple of times over the minute or so worth of fighting, but he just healed up everything and wore me down with the greatsword more than the longbow (he knew how to fight mesmers with traited reflect). So that soulbeast killed two mirages in quick succession. Dont ask me what build he used - I havent a clue. Its one of those situations where you go "I wish I could play soulbeast like that cause I instantly die on it".

Point is, everyone is kitten OP if you look hard enough.

that could've been me doing that but oh well. in that specific case you're talking about differences in player skill. that's not the same as a build being OP or broken. of course if the skill level gap is too big it will always feel like you're fighting someone who is overpowered cus they know how to deal with everything you put up against them. but dueling mesmers ( except 1 shot mesmers that I already addressed ) on my own skill level I can tell something is just completely wrong. one of my friends plays warrior and mesmer and soulbeast. I am a bit better than him on war and sb but his mirage..? there's just no way. I have no chance. he openly admits it feels wrong to use a build so strong in 1v1.

[Dawdler.8521]

@bigo.9037 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@bigo.9037 said:If i want to deal 20 k dmg and i even had quickness id still need about 4 seconds and NOTHING to interrupt me or no evades. Combo is Maul, Wordly impact, hilt bash, Maul. that would probably hit for about 20 k on someone with a similar amount of armor. But mesmer can pull off their whole combo in stealth and deal all that dmg so quickly theres no way to counterplay it. i mean.. jesus.

If my post is proof that mesmer and mirage "in general" is OP and needs to be nerfed, then by proxy a situation me and my guildie was in the other day mean that the soulbeast with lb/gs is super OP and

definetly

need to be nerfed. He also runs power mirage and met a soulbeast while I was a fair distance away. When I arrived, he was dead. My guildie the power mirage I mean. Not the soulbeast. I engaged him and god kitten. He did so much damage while being tough as nails to deal damage to. I got him down to like 60% a couple of times over the minute or so worth of fighting, but he just healed up everything and wore me down with the greatsword more than the longbow (he knew how to fight mesmers with traited reflect). So that soulbeast killed two mirages in quick succession. Dont ask me what build he used - I havent a clue. Its one of those situations where you go "I wish I could play soulbeast like that cause I instantly die on it".

Point is, everyone is kitten OP if you look hard enough.

that could've been me doing that but oh well. in that specific case you're talking about differences in player skill. that's not the same as a build being OP or broken. of course if the skill level gap is too big it will always feel like you're fighting someone who is overpowered cus they know how to deal with everything you put up against them. but dueling mesmers ( except 1 shot mesmers that I already addressed ) on my own skill level I can tell something is just completely wrong. one of my friends plays warrior and mesmer and soulbeast. I am a bit better than him on war and sb but his mirage..? there's just no way. I have no chance. he openly admits it feels wrong to use a build so strong in 1v1.

But how about your mirage compared to your sb vs your friend? If the build is so strong you will beat him. He wont stand a chance. If not... well you said something about skill.

I'm not saying mesmer isnt strong 1v1, it is. Its always been. But skill matters, yes. I've met warriors that drop in seconds, I've met warriors that are immortal. I've met revenants that are laughably bad and I've met revenants thats roflstomped while I go "dafuq was that?!". I've met eles in full glass exploding when you glance at them and I've met eles that was even more immortal than warriors. I've met guardians whose hp goes up and down like a jojo and guardians that die in a single burst. Vanilla, HoT, PoF it doesnt matter. I've been killed by them all. And it shows me nothing except that everyone vary wildly in skill. The only basis for comparison I have... is me. Which was the point.

[Kaiser.9873]

@KrHome.1920 said:

@intox.6347 said:

@Simonoly.4352 said:Mesmer is in no way as strong or relevant in WvW as it is in PvP so the nerfs will or at least should be far less than what is coming to PvP. Actually, Mesmer needs all it can get to deal with the hoards of Scourge that make up 90% of the game mode right now, plus Mesmer has always been limited in the game mode due to illusions not being able to persist long enough (or at all) during larger scale battles. Also, Mesmer condition output was nerfed in three ways - confusion duration was reduced quite a bit AND the passive tick of confusion was pretty much removed AND they removed confusion from all axe skills so you only really have to worry about one large torment stack now in the case of an axe Mirage.

Mesmer is only a threat in smaller roaming fights which makes up a tiny portion of the WvW experience and it's actually countered very well by S/D Thieves and meta roaming Warrior builds.

Its like with deadeye... strong against 1v1 ... useless in bigger group play... mesmers are now top duelers.... if i want easy roaming day... i pick one of mine mesmers... but if you join group... you are pretty useless...Yes and this is not an excuse to not touch the class in wvw (what Simonoly would like to see).

If it's broken in 1v1 than fix it for 1v1. If it's broken in large scale, then fix it for large scale. Simple as that!

But don't say its overpowered state in 1v1 is fine, because it is underpowered in large scale. That's just stupid and completely misses the point.

Good class design and balancing results in a balanced viability for every spec in every game mode.

The issue is how do you make a class that is so obviously strong in 1v1, and so poorly performing in zerg combat equally good at both? The roles seem very well defined.

[Arlette.9684]

I got reported last week for winning a 1v3. How dare I? The blasphemy!!!

[apharma.3741]

@Arlette.9684 said:I got reported last week for winning a 1v3. How dare I? The blasphemy!!!

Only warriors and thieves are allowed to win 1vX

[Vivilett.8509]

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Rasp Sabreblade.5421 said:As reading through this - the thing that gets me is the complaint isn't so much about the Mesmer or thief, but about stealth.Stealth is a broken and cancerous mechanic, and when paired with hard hitting condi combos becomes OP.

Maybe stealth should be a boon that can be stripped and/or converted. There needs to be more ways to reveal stealthed ppl. Maybe one of the existing conditions should block stealth from working, or a new condition should be implemented such as an anti-stealth/anti-teleport.

The other cancer that needs to be addressed is invulnerability. This either needs to become a boon to strip/corrupt or a break bar needs to be implemented. Just straight up invuln is a broken mechanic.

the main complaint about stealth is a stealth opener. no condition preventing stealth or reveal skill will help you there.

mid fight short stealth is rather weak defense in 1vs1, decent target break in group fights.long stealth mid fight is prett much resulting in a reset for both, tho in case of SA thief, the thief will reset alot faster. but aside from that it is as any other disengage.

such a condition or reveal skills will only adress midfight stealth, wich IMO is fine in most cases and wont help with the issue people have with stealth -> oneshot.

the only good way i can think of to reduce stealth ganks is to add a tell, for example stealth noise: creating sound of footsteps while in stealth, louder when closer or multiple opponents in stealth.

Curious who here in a zerg , which is the intent of WvW , see stealth as op in particular to a mesmer?

Does a zerg see a memser as a major threat?