Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Longbow is NOT 1500 Range


Recommended Posts

It is indeed a feature but that doesn't mean it's exempt from nerfs.

The more level-headed of us understand the fact that many arcing projectiles in this game travel further than advertised range. That magnitude of the extra distance buffer in my opinion is what needs to be nerfed. OP is right; ranger's longbow in particular actually does travel something like 1800-1900 range (effect is more pronounced if target is equal or lower elevation than you). A friend measured it once and told me the distance was about equal to JI + sword 2 on guardian (1200 teleport + 600 teleport).

Having a distance/range buffer is fine, but not a nearly 25% distance buffer. It should be more like 5-10%, so +100 units putting longbow at 1600 total range is fine. Honestly if you're noticing considerably worse results with a 1600 range vs. 1900 range attack that means you're getting carried by an unintended feature.

At the risk of sounding glib, as I don't mean to dismiss the OP's point, what if ANET Just updates the tooltip on the Longbow to reflect its current range of 1800 - 1900units? Then what?

Does the LB have a longer range than advertised on the tooltip? I won't dispute it - I don't know why anyone would make up a story, and I haven't tested it, so I'm 100% a believer.

That however, doesn't change the reality that the LB Ranger is one of the least represented professions in WvW. That's an anecdotal observation mind you ; I have no facts to back that statement up, but one has to only read the WvW forums to get a general grasp of how LB rangers are regarded in WvW. In fact, Rangers are considered to be the only real counter to the Necro, which usually tops the list of what people complain about when it comes to WvW.

Doesn't seem to me that this fix would actually fix anything. If the LB didn't shoot farther than 1500 units, the WvW landscape would remain unchanged. That's a poor excuse to not fix something that's broken - I agree, but there are other priorities I think that should be focused on to make WvW more enjoyable for all.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 163
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

@"Whiteout.1975" said:A quick little Wiki search never hurt anyone... https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Long_Range_Shot same for skills 2-4.

Under the Notes it states "The projectile flies in a small arc and can actually hit targets outside of the maximum range." So there is your brief explanation as to why...

I love that I already gave this explanation, but no one seems to have noticed.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Uden Reavstone.3426 said:

@"Whiteout.1975" said:A quick little Wiki search never hurt anyone...
same for skills 2-4.

Under the Notes it states "The projectile flies in a small arc and can actually hit targets outside of the maximum range." So there is your brief explanation as to why...

I love that I already gave this explanation, but no one seems to have noticed.

xD Yea... I Usually just link it, because it shows up in red and is more of an attention grabber. Also it's there for anyone who is to lazy to look it up... so it's a win-win.

Link to post
Share on other sites

who cares like some1 mentioned, commanders now want only scourge/fb and maybe some other crap.the classes that used to roam around the zergs smashing squeezy classes fast and easy are not welcome anymore all these classes have left you silly metabuild blob guys to die.

im even laughing when i see how blob get picked off by roamers i could stop them but instead i encourage em :D

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365 said:Projectiles do seem to reach farther than non-projectile skills with the same range/ targeted projectiles

No even projectiles from Rifles/Pistols don’t have the 15% Range Buffer even though a Dev Stated all Attacks are supposed to have the Range Buffer for tracking purposes, only some skills have it like Mesmer GS, Bows, Ele Staff Attacks and all Melee Weapons

Link to post
Share on other sites

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365 said:Projectiles do seem to reach farther than non-projectile skills with the same range/ targeted projectiles

No even projectiles from Rifles/Pistols don’t have the 15% Range Buffer even though a Dev Stated all Attacks are supposed to have the Range Buffer for tracking purposes, only some skills have it like Mesmer GS, Bows, Ele Staff Attacks and all Melee Weapons

This is interesting and sheds new light on the argument I think:

The purpose of the range buffer could be to account for horizontal/lateral tracking (target moving perpendicular to your projectile) rather than for proximal/distal tracking (target moving away from you/in-line with your projectile).

A quick explanation: If a projectile is set to travel x units in 1 second, it will move faster the larger x is. To account for a target at 1500 range simply moving left/right to avoid the projectile, they increase X to the point where the projectile travels fast enough that no amount of movement by the target could cause the projectile to miss.

My huge issue with this: Longbow got a LOT of love in regards of this range buffer, but many other range weapons, not so much.... warrior and engi rifle skills and guardian scepter skills feel very sluggish in comparison just to name a few.

Perhaps other ranged weapon buffers could stand to get some love? I would still argue that the LB range buffer should be decreased though. Ever since around the trait revamp in 2015 and HoT era, ranger longbow received the baseline range increase to 1500 + its projectiles travel so fast that I'm willing to bet that at 1500 range, no amount of lateral movement (even on a super-speeded character) is going to allow them to avoid auto-attacks from the longbow (even if we were to set the range buffer to 0%).

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:That however, doesn't change the reality that the LB Ranger is one of the least represented professions in WvW.

That's like saying Thieves are one of the least represented professions in WvW. Sure, they're not in the zerg, but they're everywhere in Roaming, right up there with Thieves and Mesmers. And almost all of them use Longbow...

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Arcaedus.7290 said:

@Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365 said:Projectiles do seem to reach farther than non-projectile skills with the same range/ targeted projectiles

No even projectiles from Rifles/Pistols don’t have the 15% Range Buffer even though a Dev Stated all Attacks are supposed to have the Range Buffer for tracking purposes, only some skills have it like Mesmer GS, Bows, Ele Staff Attacks and all Melee Weapons

This is interesting and sheds new light on the argument I think:

The purpose of the range buffer could be to account for horizontal/lateral tracking (target moving perpendicular to your projectile) rather than for proximal/distal tracking (target moving away from you/in-line with your projectile).

A quick explanation: If a projectile is set to travel x units in 1 second, it will move faster the larger x is. To account for a target at 1500 range simply moving left/right to avoid the projectile, they increase X to the point where the projectile travels fast enough that no amount of movement by the target could cause the projectile to miss.

My huge issue with this: Longbow got a LOT of love in regards of this range buffer, but many other range weapons, not so much.... warrior and engi rifle skills and guardian scepter skills feel very sluggish in comparison just to name a few.

Perhaps other ranged weapon buffers could stand to get some love? I would still argue that the LB range buffer should be decreased though. Ever since around the trait revamp in 2015 and HoT era, ranger longbow received the baseline range increase to 1500 + its projectiles travel so fast that I'm willing to bet that at 1500 range, no amount of lateral movement (even on a super-speeded character) is going to allow them to avoid auto-attacks from the longbow (even if we were to set the range buffer to 0%).

The problem is that Gun based attacks and Ames GS don’t get the Attack Range Buffer at all every other skill does, the Dev Stated all Attacks Melee and Ranged are supposed to have the buffer

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Turk.5460 said:

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:That however, doesn't change the reality that the LB Ranger is one of the least represented professions in WvW.

That's like saying Thieves are one of the least represented professions in WvW. Sure, they're not in the zerg, but they're everywhere in Roaming, right up there with Thieves and Mesmers. And almost all of them use Longbow...

In Ranger's defense, longbow is well above all other ranger weapons, the only other two remotely sorta semi-viable options for open world wvw being sword and greatsword. (And staff, I guess, maybe.) Pvp is a little different because there's more point camping happening.A nerf to Longbow is effectively a straight nerf to Ranger, unlike a couple other professions you mentioned that have a lot of good diversity in their weapon options.

Seriously, has anyone in this thread run into a Soulbeast with a dagger?No? There's a fucking reason for that.

Anywho, the extra range only seems to factor in whilst the opponent is moving away during the time it takes for a projectile to fly through the air. If they're standing still the range does seem pretty close to 1,500. I've plucked away at people further than 1,500 -- but outside of height advantage it doesn't seem to come up all of that option. I get the obstructed bug, and the out-of-range-even-though-I'm-right-next-to-you bug far more often.

~ Kovu

edit- Also, you guys seem to forget that strafing backwards whilst shooting has much slower movement than simply walking forward to close the gap. Even without gap closers you're going to move closer to them quicker than they can move away -- unless they're running away in which case they're not shooting you. Unlike the OP's profession which can leave out a bunch of garbage behind themselves whilst they run away.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Reporting for Engi:

  • Rifle projectiles do not behave like other weapon projectiles. They seem to hit slightly under their listed range of 1200, but they track the target the entire way.
  • Pistol 2 can and does miss most of the shots at max range due to some 'spread' built-in to the skill.
  • Pistol 1 actually takes over 0.8s to fire even though its listed cast time is 0.5s. I can't remember if it tracks like Rifle does, but the range is closer and the projectiles explode in an aoe at the end, so it's hard to tell. I suspect no.

I find the biggest issue with Ranger Longbow is that by the time you realize you're being attacked, you've taken half a quickness-unblockable-rapid-fire + sigil procs + One Wolf Pack, etc.

That's probably 10-20k damage right there. If you're still alive at this point, the prospect of dodging the rest, healing, then closing 1800 range worth of distance before you can even start fighting back seems insurmountable, which is why people usually run rather than fight.

If I'm playing a build with stealth or a hard invuln, I'll go for it, but otherwise I'll usually Rocket Boots off in the other direction and hope I don't take a 7k Long Range Shot in the back mid-travel.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think anything can be done about that,just leave the world itself.

Full zerk rangers standing on walls,pewpewing you to death until you find any wall behind which you can hide.No wall around?Too bad.Going to stealth,because if they cant see you,they cannot hit you.Oh wait,physics aren't working like that,longbow has laser tracking that will still cast whole barrage on you.Also don't forget about incredible range of those attacks.

I'm not complaining,after 5 years of playing i got used to it and learned how to deal with it,but those above are just some of thoughts that many WvW players often suffer from.Just be more map aware and invest in some reflects.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Longbow is over 2k range > @"Balthazzarr.1349" said:

I don't believe it's 1800 but I haven't got a measuring tape to be sure... however.. NO leave my Soulbeast/Ranger alone... I want to cut you down hard and fast if you would rather run than fight!

erm its over 2k range,

I know longbow is crazy with glassbow soulbeasts but just like with deadeye snipers and shatter mesmers, its 1:1 ratio with enemy players. This is why its crazy for zergs to dismiss classes like these as they can counter those pesky gankers. I would love to see a few more good gankers on HoD at nights so I could play something other than hammer rev, which wierdly enough is a reasonable counter to those gankers.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Things that go longer than their listed range is quite extensive.Few examples:ranger longbow autoguardian longbow autoele staff fire auto

If OP is asking for all of them to be fixed at the same time, than sure. Make ALL skills cap at their max range and just disappear without hitting anything when they pass their listed range.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Ubi.4136 said:Things that go longer than their listed range is quite extensive.Few examples:ranger longbow autoguardian longbow autoele staff fire auto

If OP is asking for all of them to be fixed at the same time, than sure. Make ALL skills cap at their max range and just disappear without hitting anything when they pass their listed range.

Which they should because as it sits now “1200”Range Bows shoot further than 1500 Range non Bow attacks or they need to give all attacks missing the Range Buffer the Range Buffer that they should have as stated by a Dev Tyler Chapman:“17. Intended. All ranged and melee skills have a 15% buffer range to take account for tracking.”

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@OP, Even the slightest narrow terrain renders a projectile invalid, so don't complain if you go against a ranged class, stand there and get killed. Use your brain a little.

While the OP's point is valid, I'd argue that it is compensated by the reality that even the slightest incline in terrain can block a LB. True, if you adopt the correct strategy which is to be on the high ground, you have no problems, but really I don't see Rangers tearing up WvW in any way shape or form. If you made a list of the Top 5 professions that were melting you in WvW, I doubt Ranger LB would appear.

Unless youre a commander.. the amount of commanders i've heard complaining about pewpew lately is hilarious xD

Link to post
Share on other sites

This extra range needs to be given to the weapons that currently lack it, there is no reason why one ranged single target attack should be 1800 range, while another ranged single target attack is 1500. While stationary. And doesn't pierce.

Which also raises questions about things like Warrior Rifle and Longbow. Why should those be 1200 (slightly further for the LB) - when they do FAR less damage than Ranger Longbow?

Link to post
Share on other sites

In what game mode is longbow ranger OP? It is only good for kill scourge and maybe applying a little pressure on a pin while unblockable.

Projectiles have worked the same way forever in this game, have been thoroughly tested and are working as intended.

Multiple traits are also required for that build which give up survivability.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Dralor.3701 said:Weapons do not need to be equal range for all classes as utility and other design elements vary.

So words and everything shouldn’t mean things, and why have a value stated at X if it doesn’t mean X and is greater than other Values of said X value?

If something says it’s 1500 Range but is actually a lot further and is proven to be so by other skills with that same 1500 Range or when a 1200 (that’s less than) Range hits further than a 1500 (Greater) Range, then what’s the point of those Ranges and Values if they don’t mean anything?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I’ve not seen a range hit for a shorter distance than it’s intended value. A lot of what is said in these threads is hyperbole and not actually backed up with evidence. I don’t think players have the ability to use any tool to test the range on a skill other than just eyeing it?

I don’t know why projectiles function the way they do other than the fact it is intended. I agree in a perfect world tooltips are accurate unless there are physics that are going to make things vary.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Dralor.3701 said:I’ve not seen a range hit for a shorter distance than it’s intended value. A lot of what is said in these threads is hyperbole and not actually backed up with evidence. I don’t think players have the ability to use any tool to test the range on a skill other than just eyeing it?

I don’t know why projectiles function the way they do other than the fact it is intended. I agree in a perfect world tooltips are accurate unless there are physics that are going to make things vary.

Except there is a pretty good tool that shows this, the Devs gave the Deadeye class a Range indicator that Shows 1500 Range the Projectiles from a Deadeye never go past this Range but Classes usig 1200 -1500 Range Projectiles from Bows Ele Staff etc can hit the Deadset from Outside this Range Indicator, tons of Video proof of this and then there is the fact that A Dev Made this statement on all Attacks Tyler Chapman:“17. Intended. All ranged and melee skills have a 15% buffer range to take account for tracking.” which that is clearly lacking from a weapons like Mesmer GS, All Guns and a few others.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I think the dev gave a poor explanation or hadn’t used the in house range tool before.

Weapons with an arc travel a farther distance than those with a straight shot. Unless I’m mistaken this can be evident on the same weapon sometimes, depending on the animation. For example I think the warrior bow has some cases where this would happen.

In my experience those weapons that arc also have a great chance of missing a moving target.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Dralor.3701 said:Well I think the dev gave a poor explanation or hadn’t used the in house range tool before.

Weapons with an arc travel a farther distance than those with a straight shot. Unless I’m mistaken this can be evident on the same weapon sometimes, depending on the animation. For example I think the warrior bow has some cases where this would happen.

No that statement doesn’t say some or a few it says all and explains how Melee attacks have the Buffer then since those don’t have an Arcing Projectile but they hit further than their range indicator, I put more stock in the Dev posts than so far unsubstantiated claims of further Distance from Arcing Projectiles, since then that would mean physics are applied to those Projectiles and variation in elevation would gain or limit their range(which they don’t also proven on video, they hit for the same range)

And again why have a Range Value listed if it’s not the Range Value? Idk where you come from but everywhere I know 1500=1500 not 1500=1700+

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...