The new forums are a step back

[mbhalo.1547]

The color of the font - its only 75% brightness of the black, makes harder to read and puts strain on the eyes.

Lots of empty space everywhere and lack of visual structure makes the forums hard to navigate.

Icons of people that gave reaction under the post - JUST NO.

[Ashantara.8731]

@Lustre Of Havoc.9173 said:I want to thumbs down this guy, but I'm scared of what he'll do to me. :/

Why would you want to thumbs down someone for posting valid criticism? Is it that horrid to have people not liking everything they are been given? Must people be scared now to post their honest opinion on something?

This is the very reason why the thumbs-down feature must go.

[Danikat.8537]

@Lonami.2987 said:

• Useful, Thumbs Up, and Thumbs Down should be anonymous. Making them public only encourages grudges, circlejerks, and self-censorship. Not to say the icons of those who voted start filling the screen pretty quickly, and they're incredibly annoying.

I'm not sure. My thinking is that if everyone can see how I've reacted to a post I need to be more careful in how I use it, because it's a public declaration of support/disagreement and I have to be willing to stand by that if anyone questions it. I can definitely understand the concern but I think it also has the potential to be a self-regulating system.

@Lonami.2987 said:

• Being unable to edit your posts whenever you want is really distasteful. There's plenty of threads where editing the original body or the messages is mandatory to keep the conversation updated. Is there any logic reason for this?

I agree that's annoying and impractical, but Gaile has already said it's something she'll look at changing.

@Lonami.2987 said:

• Locking forum functionalities behind badges only encourages artificial behavior in order to farm more badges and unlock said features. The main goal of the forum should be discussion, not achievement farming and spamming to get points.

Do we know that's how it works? We know it slightly increases the time you have to edit posts, but I've not seen anything from Anet to say an increased post count or badges unlocks features like signatures and since I have seen players saying it unlocks some things we already know are completely disabled like custom avatars I'm not sure I trust the assumptions that everything a person wants can be accessed by posting more.

(Overall it reminds me of older forum software where the post rank would be overwritten by the moderator 'badge' and that lead some people to believe that after a certain number of posts you automatically became a moderator.)

@Lonami.2987 said:

• Multiple readability problems. There's a lot of empty vertical white space between the posts, and the bodies themselves are far too wide, which makes you lose the line you were reading easily. The artwork at the sides is distracting and moves focus away from the conversation. The font is too large, too. Forums should be functional rather than pretty.

I don't have any of these problems. But that might be because my browser window is quite narrow (as much as I love my wide screen for games I hate using the full width for websites). I suspect it's not ideal for some people but that's one easy option to 'fix' it.

@Lonami.2987 said:

• User name is placed between each post, which makes it obtrusive. It should be placed to the left, along the avatar.

I actually prefer it this way, because it makes it easier to see before reading the post.

@Lonami.2987 said:

• The report/useful/etc options under each message should have a font smaller than that of the body of the messages, and be located to a side where they don't get mixed with the conversation.

I don't see how it really makes any difference, it seems like that's just a personal preference to me.

@Lonami.2987 said:

• A night mode is almost mandatory, and pretty much zero-effort to implement.

'Almost mandatory' is a strong term to use for an optional alternate colour scheme. I like dark colours as much as the next person but I don't see it as that big of a deal. And actually Gaile has already said it's not currently possible, and someone posting in one of the other topics about it confirmed that the software the forum is built on doesn't currently allow that option, so no, it's not "almost zero effort".

@Lonami.2987 said:

• Pointless to introduce an avatar system, if the options are so limited. We need more images to choose from.

We've already been told we're going to get them.

@Lonami.2987 said:

• Direct links to the wiki don't work anymore, and you get an external link warning.

Does it matter? It's one extra click or a few seconds of waiting (whichever you prefer).

Overall I feel like this post is a mix-up of genuine issues (like the restriction on editing posts), personal preference and a knee-jerk reaction to the new forums not looking identical to the old ones. The first category probably can be sorted out, the second is pointless to address because you'll never please everyone and the 3rd is just a matter of spending more than a couple of hours on the forum.

[Zehnchu.4985]

Welcome to the meta game of the forums.....ok all jokes aside, I see the OP points. But I have to wonder who thinks it's a good idea to to enable the thumbs down can't count how many sites that removed that feature because of the abuse. Thumbs down and ranking well this will just make more people who are annoying on the forums just that much more annoying,

[franklittleff.6523]

+1.

Thank you.

[Piogre.2164]

@"Boogiepop Void.6473" said:Also, you can't post images directly to threads anymore. External linking (with it's multistep hassle) to a picture you can't see (VERY ABUSABLE) is not an equivalent, or viable.

You can link directly to external images and embed them, they just need to already be hosted:

EDIT: nope, I was wrong, looks like you can only do that with images already hosted by the forum.

[JustTrogdor.7892]

@LamaLeif.5381 said:But I'm sure this works great on mobiles and those avatar thumbs up icons are like emojis riiiiight? and emojis are great when spammed across your screen.

It actually does look much cleaner on my phone.https://imgur.com/0aDmeRa

I don't view the forum on my phone often so that isn't really a plus.

I really appreciate Anet working to improve the forums but as it stands now I see it as one step forward and two steps back.

Positive:The search feature works.The latest Anet post feature on the main page is cool.

Negative:Time limits on editing posts.Can't upload images (apparently due to security).My opinion at this point is it looks bad when viewing on computer due to spacing.

Like I said, maybe I just need time to get used to it. For now though it seems like there is a lot of room for improvement. It seems like the new software is open to more options than the old one, so maybe things will change a bit over time. I'm in wait and see mode for now.

[JustTrogdor.7892]

It looks like they removed the avatars that were shown from people that gave a thumbs up. That cleans up the post views a lot. That is a good sign that Anet is listening and will continue to modify the new forum. Thumbs up!

[Ohoni.6057]

I agree, these new forums seem too "big," too much empty space, large font, vague borders between posts, I just hate the entire visual aesthetic. Also, we need a better dev tracker, the little bar at the top will not cut it long term.

[Dark Jericho.8609]

@Lonami.2987 said:

• A night mode is almost mandatory, and pretty much zero-effort to implement.

Please, I need this very much.

[Pak.2193]

@Neural.1824 said:I agree, especially if there are certain features, etc. locked behind badges. We have enough time gated, achievement locked things in the game. The forum doesn't need to be a copy of that. I mean seriously, what next? Gems for forum privileges?

Haha it's not a surprise to find stuff time gated even on a forum by ANET

@Lonami.2987 said:

• A night mode is almost mandatory, and pretty much zero-effort to implement.

My eyes are currently burning with the current background.

[Alimar.8760]

I do agree on some points here.

Most definitely functionality shouldn't be behind ranks.

[Vyrulisse.1246]

A.net needs to remember that some of us still browse the internet via our actual PC's and not a mobile device. This forum screams mobile but it's an absolute eyesore on a monitor for me.

[Substance E.4852]

Feels like I stumbled on the mobile version of a site, only such a version wouldn't have so much empty negative space.

All we needed was the search option to work properly and the old forums would have been fine. They were clean, succinct, and easy to look at.

If they wanted to drive even more people to use reddit exclusively then I guess it was a good change.

[Lonami.2987]

@Moyayuki.3619 said:I'm no mod, but...if you have feedback to give, there is a specific thread dedicated to giving it here: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/269/feedback-new-forums#latest

Please use that instead of clogging the general discussion, as a courtesy.

Thanks for the headup, but I think this one has more visibility. I'll post a summary of the suggestions here to that other thread later on.

@JustTrogdor.7892 said:It looks like they removed the avatars that were shown from people that gave a thumbs up. That cleans up the post views a lot. That is a good sign that Anet is listening and will continue to modify the new forum. Thumbs up!

Yeah, they've probably just disabled visibility for it, but that's enough for me.

[Carighan.6758]

@Lonami.2987 said:

• Useful, Thumbs Up, and Thumbs Down should be anonymous. Making them public only encourages grudges, circlejerks, and self-censorship. Not to say the icons of those who voted start filling the screen pretty quickly, and they're incredibly annoying.

Hrm, disagreed. I quite like that this makes people consider more whether to upvote/downvote. It means votes done are more "in earnest".

@Lonami.2987 said:

• Being unable to edit your posts whenever you want is really distasteful. There's plenty of threads where editing the original body or the messages is mandatory to keep the conversation updated. Is there any logic reason for this?
• Locking forum functionalities behind badges only encourages artificial behavior in order to farm more badges and unlock said features. The main goal of the forum should be discussion, not achievement farming and spamming to get points.
• Multiple readability problems. There's a lot of empty vertical white space between the posts, and the bodies themselves are far too wide, which makes you lose the line you were reading easily. The artwork at the sides is distracting and moves focus away from the conversation. The font is too large, too. Forums should be functional rather than pretty.
• User name is placed between each post, which makes it obtrusive. It should be placed to the left, along the avatar.
• The report/useful/etc options under each message should have a font smaller than that of the body of the messages, and be located to a side where they don't get mixed with the conversation.

Fully agreed on these. The posts should constitute the main flow. If this forum is indeed based on Discourse (it feels like it :grin: ) then look how those do it: light-gray buttons on a gentle background make it easy to visually distinguish elements and "scroll past them" in your brain. Here, it's all white on white with some white and extra whitespace thrown in. No structure, no placement, no nothing.

• A night mode is almost mandatory, and pretty much zero-effort to implement.

Yeah, this isn't 2002 any more. We have people reading this on OLED screens, there should be at least a black mode, and ofc ideally a separate dark mode.

(black means "off' on OLEDs, so it's important to make the distinction)

• Pointless to introduce an avatar system, if the options are so limited. We need more images to choose from.

Yeah, I can understand their worry about external avatars, but at least upload all game icons then, traits, skills, everything.

But to be fair, overall I really like the new forums. :)

[Flatley.1620]

• Don't like up and down votes. It will be abused, mark my words.
• No sig. until I get enough up votes? Is it 1995 all over again? See above point.
• Navigating the forums from a 'phone is a nightmare. The first time I got here, I was pushed to a more mobile-friendly "version" but I can't find that again now.
• Avatars: I can sort of see why they've limited them as there's potential for abuse here too. However, it wouldn't be that difficult for a mod to advise the user to change if found offensive. So, yeah, can we have our own avatars please? Although I wouldn't like to see massive ones so perhaps a pixel limit or auto-crop could come into play?
• Like the text formatting options - much better
• Can the old forums be archived and/or merged into these to save all the handy info contained therein?
• Edit timeout is awful - I sometime re-read my posts and correct them (particularly for grammar and clarity) after 15 mins - now I'll have to make another post to say want I want to correct. = SPAM. However, it will up my post count so does that come into account somewhere too? Like > 100 posts means I can have a sig?
• Posting and editing is much quicker - thumbs up! (see what I did there?)
• If post count matters, and up votes matter, what about all the posts we've already made on the old forums? Now we have to start from scratch?

Apart from this nitpicks, the forums do "feel" cleaner and are overall much more responsive. I also think some of the above may be knee-jerk as I'm still getting used to my new home.

[Samarak.7519]

You have valid points, but I wouldn't say it's a step back, it just seems mostly nitpicky. The old forums were terrible and slow.

[Erhnam.5732]

The timeout function needs to be reviews and applied per machine/IP, not per browser tab

[Hibiskus.8294]

Oh great.....and i have posted some days before some suggestions to staff rework for mesmer and a wish for a recoloured shadow raven (white, blue)...also the new forum is....well....unusual......the new text format is really big compared to the old forums....also i have read somewhere, that we now can not post pictures directly now.....i hope that they change this again...and i dont see a forum that is for HoT or PoF discussions.....or i need to search for it....some good changes some bad changes...but changing the forums before the PoF release made some good forum posts hidden (i mean i can not find them anymore...)...well lets see what they make with this new forum format..

[Caedmon.6798]

Jeeez this looks so ugly,sry anet but it does ! Oh look now we have thumbs up and down just like Twitturz and Fazeboock.The things that Stand out,are the things that dont need to stand out.Its a visual clusterfuck,it looks bad.

[Loosifah.4738]

Honestly I'm just happy to no longer be banned from the forums. It's been years!

[Harper.4173]

I'll have to add something to the rank system. Yes - by default unlocking forum functionality through ranks is stupid, but here's another fun thing they did - they gave NO consideration to old players and contributors to the forum.Example:I have hundreds of posts on the old forums. Good, bad, right or wrong I was a person who contributed to the discussion. That's what the forums were for. I've got 5400 hours in game and yet - for some reason - I'm a "recruit".

Well done Anet, nice way to show your veteran players and people who care about this game and its community how much they matter.

[Flatley.1620]

@Harper.4173 said:I'll have to add something to the rank system. Yes - by default unlocking forum functionality through ranks is stupid, but here's another fun thing they did - they gave NO consideration to old players and contributors to the forum.Example:I have hundreds of posts on the old forums. Good, bad, right or wrong I was a person who contributed to the discussion. That's what the forums were for. I've got 5400 hours in game and yet - for some reason - I'm a "recruit".

Well done Anet, nice way to show your veteran players and people who care about this game and its community how much they matter.

I can see where you're coming from.having posted here for five years myself but I have a suspicion there may be technical issues preventing them from a carry-over from the old forums...

[Harper.4173]

I don't want a carry over. I want some small form of recognition that reads "this user is actually worth a damn to us and we accept and recognize that they've been with the community for a long time and supported us as a company and the community".I want something other than "recruit".

Also am I incompetent and can't find them or are forum signatures gone?