An evening with renegade in spvp

[Milan.9035]

WOW, just wow.

i tried a few different variations. but even my best is not close to any other bad class. but the hate and abuse from other players is really what made this so bad. i had to turn off chat to be able to play.

it amazes me that renegade was released same time as mirage, scourge, firebrand, holo, and the rest. even like core specs are better than renegade.

did one dev bring spend like 3 months making holosmith then an afternoon making renegade.

[messiah.1908]

renegade needs a team with mic. he needs to follow team fights and evade thief. any thief or mesmer will kill him in 2 sec. cannot do 1v1 at all.with a team he can buff their dmg but it seems its only useful in zerg fights and not small fights. as in small fights its more useful to do 3k dps than to buff your team with 500 dps.so renegade is more pve mode

hate it too but that;s the fact

[Kreed.2768]

As far as I recall hearing, Renegade was worked on last of all the elite specs and it was scrapped and redone at least once in its development cycle. Knowing that I'm not surprised that it's main strength is its theme and that it mechanically is barebones and weak when compared to any other PoF elite spec.

[JayAction.9056]

Yes you are about 8 months late to the party.

Keep in mind Renegade has been buffed quite extremely from its original state and all the other POF specs have been nerfed.

I personally have come to the conclusion it was made much weaker on purpose. Revenant as a whole has been made much weaker than everything else on purpose.

Notice some skills were buffed up to +333% increase in a single patch, yet this is still the state it’s in, pathetic?

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/27394/333-buff#latest

[narcx.3570]

It is fun to mention that at the time they designed Renegade, a bulk of the Revenant forum trolls were crying for access to a ranged condi weapon for WvW zerging (despite the fact that it's stupid with the rest of a rev's kit.) Maybe they designed Renegade to spite them in an ultimate stroke of "Be careful what you wish for."

[ScottBroChill.3254]

its weird. It sucks without a coordinated team and unfortunately you cant really team up in pvp, or at least not ranked. It provides a weird role, but I'm going to tell you something is that darkrazors, the elite, and the heal are not to be underestimated for team support even on a point. Darkrazors is great for denying revives and providing protection while reviving, and the heal and elite are great team support for keeping other members alive. people might focus you, and thats why you need teammates beacause there is basically no escapes for renegade or any defense. Its why it performs so badly with people who don't know how to stick with the renegade. I think in a perfect setting its actually not bad and almost performs like a scourge who needs just as much babysitting, but provides support and some dps instead of just massive dps. The problem is the setting is not perfect and theres only one pvp game mode and in a 5v5 you'll be better off bringing something else.

But yeah the design of renegade (and revenant) was careless and didn't take into account the playstyles that are supported, or are effective in game. It's like they made a basketball player but instead of the game being basketball its baseball so the class just isn't suited for the game environment.

[Buran.3796]

@"narcx.3570" said:It is fun to mention that at the time they designed Renegade, a bulk of the Revenant forum trolls were crying for access to a ranged condi weapon for WvW zerging (despite the fact that it's stupid with the rest of a rev's kit.) Maybe they designed Renegade to spite them in an ultimate stroke of "Be careful what you wish for."

I wished a condi ranged weapon for roaming in all honestly. At the time the lack of mobility of the condi builds combined with the lack of any way to pressure a ranged foe made roaming with those builds a walk by the park to any Ranger, Mesmer or Thief, which could delete us just poking at range while running in circles.

But you can't argue than that wish was trolling: trolling was releasing a 2HD weapon with no defensive skills, no mobility, same casting times as the hammer but with a quarter less range, half of the damage and attacks that can't hit the targets due slanted terrain despite we are talking about flying projectiles from a class which can teleport himself and its weapons through the space.

You can't blame the forums for a monstrosity as the renegade.

[Liewec.2896]

totally agree it needs a hell of a lot of work before PoF releases...oh wait.but yeah it needs a ton of work to become even remotely viable, and with Anets record of painfully slow patching i can't see a fix any time soon,but hey, its rev, so what else is new? XD

the only moderately "ok" spec i could make (for unranked) is full zerker with hammer,staying off point and using the 2 aoe spirits in conjunction with hammer skills to deal farily good damage,but i'd be doing way more damage as a different class full zerker.plus the freaking spirits can be destroyed so easily.

the first change that is an absolute MUST, is to make the spirits unkillable and untargettable.then they can work on making the spirits, shortbow and traits all less abysmal.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

@JayAction.9056 said:

Notice some skills were buffed up to +333% increase in a single patch, yet this is still the state it’s in, pathetic?

Yeeeep. PoF was horribly balanced. There really is no pretending it wasn't.

Every single OP meta build last balance patch saw a nerf, and yet the meta hardly changed- if anything it got worse due to one class getting less nerfed than the others. If that fact doesn't showcase how overtuned and out of control PoF specs are then I don't know what will. The balance team doesn't seem to want to accept just how overwhelmingly busted things are. So they keep doing minor adjustments and baby steps that don't accomplish anything.

I recently had an interesting engagement at a midfight on LotF. It was 2v2 Herald ( Me ) + Core Guardian vs a Power Mirage + Kalla/Mallyx Renegade. When we downed the mesmer, I had a very sad moment of truth. I realized that I needed to cleave/finish off the mes- not because we were in danger of him rallying or any of the normal reasons why you would want to finish off a downed player before dealing with his +1. Hahaha, No. I needed to do it because the downed mirage was legitimately a bigger threat in terms of being able to kill us than their Kalla renegade was.

That's how busted this games balance is.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

doublepost 93205843-09

[Milan.9035]

The shortbow skills are just awful. Lets take a look...

1 is quite good. A really nice hybrid attack, should be torment instead of bleeding but oh well its not bad.

2 is cool idea. Portals from back and sides ooen and hit the target. Sounds like it would be very hard to avoid. Even los cant stop that. But then the actual can be avoided by simply walking casually. So completely useless in anything other than stationary target.

3 seven shot. Cool idea. Terrible execution. Enough has been said about this and nothing has been done.

4 another major problem skill. Long cast time and long time to get the skill on the ground and on top of that cant cast it behind you and will be cancelled if you happen to look away from you target. Look cool though....

5 almost a perfect skill. Cast time feels a bit slow or the projectile speed. The againt we can get an error saying you are not facing the target and will never auto face target like the auto attack..

What i do love about the renegade is the art and animations. Thats about it. If this was a single player game it would be fine.

What i imagined renegade as before the release announcement was a fast paced mid range condi class. Short bow similar to thief. But with the use of portals for mobility. And maybe a copy of mesmer portal for a utility to open other classes to that role.

But we got what we got.

[Vasdamas Anklast.1607]

@"narcx.3570" said:It is fun to mention that at the time they designed Renegade, a bulk of the Revenant forum trolls were crying for access to a ranged condi weapon for WvW zerging (despite the fact that it's stupid with the rest of a rev's kit.) Maybe they designed Renegade to spite them in an ultimate stroke of "Be careful what you wish for."Well, revenant did lack ranged condi weapon so they introduced but man is the execution bad... I hope GS won't be this useless.

[jokobet.6081]

Maybe Ren is just a PvE spec? That being said, shortbow is a mess in either game mode afaik.