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ghost.5478

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@"cptaylor.2670" said:Also, I think we need more flax farms in general unless they play on reducing the seed cost of linseed oil. It still takes a lot and linseed oil is used in so many things as it is, as well as buckets full just for guild upgrades. >_>Most people don't even farm flax, much less farm all of the flax farms already available in game. There is plenty of flax to be had for those that want to farm it, but as long as most players are fine with the price the way it is now, you won't get new people contribute to the amount of flax offered on the trading post. More farms won't change anything.

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@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:The list has been on the wiki for ages, including the market values of the drops:

. I realize it's a bother to visit a web page before making a purchase, but surely for 1000 gems, it's worth 30 seconds to do a bit of research to save one from the agony of unfortunate assumptions.

This should be in game, when real money is involved. Customers have 0 obligation to visit or even know that wiki exists.

The customer in this case assumed something about a 1000-gem purchase. Are you saying that there's no obligation on the part of buyers to get information in order to make an informed decision?

It's well known that the wiki exists and that it has details that can answer a huge number of questions, including simple ones like, "what sort of nodes are available from the Garden Plot and how much are they worth?" Sometimes it even helps determine the return-on-investment for such purchases.

ANet could make things easier and I really wish they'd stop shooting themselves in the foot by reconsidering their phraseology in light of potential ambiguity of language(s). But let's not pretend as if they could possibly prevent all misunderstandings.

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@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:The list has been on the wiki for ages, including the market values of the drops:

. I realize it's a bother to visit a web page before making a purchase, but surely for 1000 gems, it's worth 30 seconds to do a bit of research to save one from the agony of unfortunate assumptions.

This should be in game, when real money is involved. Customers have 0 obligation to visit or even know that wiki exists.

Are you saying that there's no obligation on the part of buyers to get information in order to make an informed decision?

It is on the seller to provide all the detail about the product. This info is not available through gemstore.

The customer in this case assumed something about a 1000-gem purchase.

So did you. Let's see:

It's well known that the wiki exists

Maybe for you. But you are not OP and shouldn't assume as much, especially when we are talking about real money purchases through gemstore.

and that it has details that can answer a huge number of questions, including simple ones like, "what sort of nodes are available from the Garden Plot and how much are they worth?" Sometimes it even helps determine the return-on-investment for such purchases.

How is it fleshed out in gem store UI? How is Anet informing their customers within the store what are the details of the purchase or at least directing them to detailed information on wiki?

ANet could make things easier and I really wish they'd stop shooting themselves in the foot by reconsidering their phraseology in light of potential ambiguity of language(s). But let's not pretend as if they could possibly prevent all misunderstandings.

After 6 years (not counting GW1 because I'm merciful god) I expect more from them but they are repeating same mistakes all the time. Such complaints appeared before and nothing has been done about this. They are selling stuff for real money there and since they can't improve on this matter maybe an outside auditor should look at their practices and determine a repair plan for Anet?

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@mercury ranique.2170 said:

@"Ubi.4136" said:English is my primary language, and "nodes in your garden can be sown with seeds to grow plants of your choice" is poorly worded. The OP is not wrong, the statement is vague, and not everyone even knows that there are additional home instance nodes. The item saying you can grow plants you choose, implies that you can grow the plant that "you" choose. Not, you can grow a plant that you choose from a very select, limited list.

Not saying it is intentionally misleading, but it should be worded that you can only choose from a set list.

The statement is not vague, nor should it be more clear. English is not my main language and it is crystal clear to me.

An example from a different marker. Mercedes brings out a new car that goes from 0 to 200 km per hour in 10 seconds. They advertise with it. You are the person getting upset that the speed limit is 120km per hour!

Just cause something is not explicitly stated, doesn't automatically mean the opposite. Just cause the manual of the microwave doesnt state that one shouldn't put animals in it, doesn't mean you can!

put schrodinger's cat in the microwave!

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Either way you were going to lose. You spent more than ten bucks USD, or 289 GOLD's worth of gems, on a home instance node that would have generated no more than perhaps 20 SILVER per day on average in Flax related gatherables provided you make sure to use it. You'd have to use those nodes every day for the next five years just to make your money back that you spent on it!

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@"Kheldorn.5123" said:It is on the seller to provide all the detail about the product.No, it's not. There is never any way to provide all the information that everyone might want to know. They should make it easier, but there's no obligation.

This info is not available through gemstore.Correct, and that's my point: the list of available seeds isn't stated at all. Buyers shoiuldn't assume the available selection.

The customer in this case assumed something about a 1000-gem purchase.So did you. Let's see:It's well known that the wiki existsMaybe for you. But you are not OP and shouldn't assume as much, especially when we are talking about real money purchases through gemstore.You cannot logon to the game (or for some people, download it) without being presented with links to the wiki.The point is: buyers need to be aware of what they are buying and the information is out there, easily found.

and that it has details that can answer a huge number of questions, including simple ones like, "what sort of nodes are available from the Garden Plot and how much are they worth?" Sometimes it even helps determine the return-on-investment for such purchases.

How is it fleshed out in gem store UI? How is Anet informing their customers within the store what are the details of the purchase or at least directing them to detailed information on wiki?I'm not arguing about whether ANet
should
provide that information in a more-accessible spot. I'm saying: it's not hard to find. Someone who cares about what they get for their 1000 gems shouldn't trust that all the details they need to make an informed choice are going to be presented by the seller.

ANet could make things easier and I really wish they'd stop shooting themselves in the foot by reconsidering their phraseology in light of potential ambiguity of language(s). But let's not pretend as if they could possibly prevent all misunderstandings.

After 6 years (not counting GW1 because I'm merciful god) I expect more from them but they are repeating same mistakes all the time. Such complaints appeared before and nothing has been done about this. They are selling stuff for real money there and since they can't improve on this matter maybe an outside auditor should look at their practices and determine a repair plan for Anet?You keep missing the point: this isn't about what ANet
should
do, it's about what they did do and about what the buyer did. ANet didn't promise; the buyer presumed something that wasn't stated and would have taken less than 2 minutes to learn via an internet search.

There is no seller in the history of the universe planet (just in case you wanted to pick that nit) that acts entirely within the best interest of the buyer; the buyer should do some checking if they want full value for their expenditure.

I definitely wish ANet would write their marketing copy knowing that people are likely to misunderstand if there's any ambiguity instead. But that's a wish of mine; they aren't under any obligation to get better at it.

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@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:No, it's not. There is never any way to provide all the information that everyone might want to know. They should make it easier, but there's no obligation.

Of course there is. The problem may be time, money or lack of ideas or will to do it properly. Didn't read rest of your post as this single sentence remove any reason to do so.

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@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:The list has been on the wiki for ages, including the market values of the drops:

. I realize it's a bother to visit a web page before making a purchase, but surely for 1000 gems, it's worth 30 seconds to do a bit of research to save one from the agony of unfortunate assumptions.

This should be in game, when real money is involved. Customers have 0 obligation to visit or even know that wiki exists.

Really? Because it's clearly linked at the TOP of this page ... let's not assume that the Wiki is just some fanpage that Anet doesn't care about ... if you game in today's age, it's the equivalent of a manual. Granted, Anet could do a little better to make people aware of the wiki INGAME, but make no mistake, the information is on the Wiki because it's NOT in the game. It is intended that players use it for their information.

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:The list has been on the wiki for ages, including the market values of the drops:

. I realize it's a bother to visit a web page before making a purchase, but surely for 1000 gems, it's worth 30 seconds to do a bit of research to save one from the agony of unfortunate assumptions.

This should be in game, when real money is involved. Customers have 0 obligation to visit or even know that wiki exists.

Really? Because it's clearly linked at the TOP of this page ... let's not assume that the Wiki is just some fanpage that Anet doesn't care about ... if you game in today's age, it's the equivalent of a manual. Granted, Anet could do a little better to make people aware of the wiki INGAME, but make no mistake, the information is on the Wiki because it's NOT in the game. It is intended that players use it for their information.

Where in gem store is it specified that detailed information about the purchases is described on wiki? Or where in game or UA is it said that wiki is integral part of the gemstore and players should consult it before buying stuff?

Also wiki is player edited site so no article in 100% guaranteed to be accurate to ArenaNet's ideas.

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It's not .. .like I said IN THE SAME POST YOU QUOTED... Anet could do a much better job to make people aware of the wiki INGAME ... do you even read the posts you respond to?

Even though it's 100% player made, obviously Anet endorses the wiki if it's a direct link from their game web page ... :/ If you still aren't convinced Anet supports wiki, here is some education ...

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/33694/about-the-on-wiki-of-gold-project#latest

Listen, i'm not blaming the guy for confusion but it's not hard to check the facts, whether they are ingame or not. Frankly, I can see why Anet (and many other game developers over the last 35 years) don't flood players with 'the manual' kind of information ingame. In fact, I think it would be EXCEPTIONAL for a game to do that.

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@Captain Jordan.6938 said:Either way you were going to lose. You spent more than ten bucks USD, or 289 GOLD's worth of gems, on a home instance node that would have generated no more than perhaps 20 SILVER per day on average in Flax related gatherables provided you make sure to use it. You'd have to use those nodes every day for the next five years just to make your money back that you spent on it!

here's to hoping the game lasts 5 more years

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@"ghost.5478" said:I have the real feeling of being scammed.

I would like to get reasoned explanations from ArenaNet because here I am talking about real money spent on you. A shame !

You just could check gw2wiki and inform yourself befor buying . . .I mean it's been a while since they released the garden plot thing, you can find every information about it on gw2wiki, reddit and even by just using the map chat.

You are talking about real money you spent but you were not effort to inform yourself about the item you spent your real money for?Yea, that is a shame, a shame that you are upset about your own mistakes and try to blame others for that.Inform yourself about the things you want to buy and don't "guess" it could be what you want it to be.And if you want to force yourself to buy a pig in a poke, don't blame others if you don't get want you want.

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Whether you think having the information on the wiki is enough or not, Even I dont read all the wiki related information on gemstore items. In fact, I am probably less inclined to buy something if I cant fully see what Im buying ingame.

As in, i need to be really interested to even begin searching outside the game for more information. I think an easy button that links to or shows more information on the details of said item could be really useful. Many online shops have it and while some are better at that it than others, its usually helpful. Also as I automatically distrust it if I dont have easy access to such information.

Ofcourse, for the gemstore to link to the wiki would in no way be all useful when the wiki doesnt get updated basically right away by those launching a new gemstore item.

So while Anet might not be obligated to write a more clear description, it definitely would come across better if they showed more complete and transparent information. Knowing that this mostly only matters in the more complicated gemstore items like this gardenplot.

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@"Obtena.7952" said:It's not .. .like I said IN THE SAME POST YOU QUOTED... Anet could do a much better job to make people aware of the wiki INGAME ... do you even read the posts you respond to?

Even though it's 100% player made, obviously Anet endorses the wiki if it's a direct link from their game web page ... :/ If you still aren't convinced Anet supports wiki, here is some education ...

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/33694/about-the-on-wiki-of-gold-project#latest

Listen, i'm not blaming the guy for confusion but it's not hard to check the facts, whether they are ingame or not. Frankly, I can see why Anet (and many other game developers over the last 35 years) don't flood players with 'the manual' kind of information ingame. In fact, I think it would be EXCEPTIONAL for a game to do that.

I know Anet endorses wiki but it's not their oficial marketing offer channel and customers are in no way obliged to look at it as a source to get information about the purchase from.

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@Karaha.3290 said:

@"ghost.5478" said:I have the real feeling of being scammed.

I would like to get reasoned explanations from ArenaNet because here I am talking about real money spent on you. A shame !

You just could check gw2wiki and inform yourself befor buying . . .I mean it's been a while since they released the garden plot thing, you can find every information about it on gw2wiki, reddit and even by just using the map chat.

You are talking about real money you spent but you were not effort to inform yourself about the item you spent your real money for?Yea, that is a shame, a shame that you are upset about your own mistakes and try to blame others for that.Inform yourself about the things you want to buy and don't "guess" it could be what you want it to be.And if you want to force yourself to buy a pig in a poke, don't blame others if you don't get want you want.

nowhere in gemstore Anet states there is something more about the deed than what is being presented in gemstore purchase description

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@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@"ghost.5478" said:I have the real feeling of being scammed.

I would like to get reasoned explanations from ArenaNet because here I am talking about real money spent on you. A shame !

You just could check gw2wiki and inform yourself befor buying . . .I mean it's been a while since they released the garden plot thing, you can find every information about it on gw2wiki, reddit and even by just using the map chat.

You are talking about real money you spent but you were not effort to inform yourself about the item you spent your real money for?Yea, that is a shame, a shame that you are upset about your own mistakes and try to blame others for that.Inform yourself about the things you want to buy and don't "guess" it could be what you want it to be.And if you want to force yourself to buy a pig in a poke, don't blame others if you don't get want you want.

nowhere in gemstore Anet states there is something more about the deed than what is being presented in gemstore purchase description

Like i wrote, check gw2wiki, reddit, mapchat or whatever. There are enough sources to get your informations.For example, if you want to buy a car, you inform yourself using more sources than only the sellers description. Especially when sellers description don't answer all your questions.

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@Karaha.3290 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@"ghost.5478" said:I have the real feeling of being scammed.

I would like to get reasoned explanations from ArenaNet because here I am talking about real money spent on you. A shame !

You just could check gw2wiki and inform yourself befor buying . . .I mean it's been a while since they released the garden plot thing, you can find every information about it on gw2wiki, reddit and even by just using the map chat.

You are talking about real money you spent but you were not effort to inform yourself about the item you spent your real money for?Yea, that is a shame, a shame that you are upset about your own mistakes and try to blame others for that.Inform yourself about the things you want to buy and don't "guess" it could be what you want it to be.And if you want to force yourself to buy a pig in a poke, don't blame others if you don't get want you want.

nowhere in gemstore Anet states there is something more about the deed than what is being presented in gemstore purchase description

Like i wrote, check gw2wiki, reddit, mapchat or whatever. There are enough sources to get your informations.For example, if you want to buy a car, you inform yourself using more sources than only the sellers description. Especially when sellers description don't answer all your questions.

This is about real money trading. The seller should provide full information about the product or link to the proper source. Nothing like this happens in gemstore regarding item in question and no customer has any obligation to read or know about wiki or reddit which are not Anet official marketing channels.

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@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:No, it's not. There is never any way to provide all the information that everyone might want to know. They
should
make it easier, but there's no obligation.

Of course there is. The problem may be time, money or lack of ideas or will to do it properly.

I don't understand why would you argue this. It's an easily-demonstrably truth of human nature that there is never any way to provide sufficient written information that allows everyone to understand everything that they might need to know. Some people simply best by doing, some by listening, and only some by reading. It's not simply a question of time, money, or even a will to do it (properly or otherwise).

Worse, it turns out that providing too much information is sometimes worse, because it makes it harder for people to learn what's really important to them.

Didn't read rest of your post as this single sentence remove any reason to do so.It's good to be so sure of yourself that facts won't get in the way of your world view.

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@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@"ghost.5478" said:I have the real feeling of being scammed.

I would like to get reasoned explanations from ArenaNet because here I am talking about real money spent on you. A shame !

You just could check gw2wiki and inform yourself befor buying . . .I mean it's been a while since they released the garden plot thing, you can find every information about it on gw2wiki, reddit and even by just using the map chat.

You are talking about real money you spent but you were not effort to inform yourself about the item you spent your real money for?Yea, that is a shame, a shame that you are upset about your own mistakes and try to blame others for that.Inform yourself about the things you want to buy and don't "guess" it could be what you want it to be.And if you want to force yourself to buy a pig in a poke, don't blame others if you don't get want you want.

nowhere in gemstore Anet states there is something more about the deed than what is being presented in gemstore purchase description

Like i wrote, check gw2wiki, reddit, mapchat or whatever. There are enough sources to get your informations.For example, if you want to buy a car, you inform yourself using more sources than only the sellers description. Especially when sellers description don't answer all your questions.

This is about real money trading. The seller should provide full information about the product or link to the proper source. Nothing like this happens in gemstore regarding item in question and no customer has any obligation to read or know about wiki or reddit which are not Anet official marketing channels.

Well, do you get full information about any product you buy in reallife; with real money? I don't think so.

For sure nobody has any obligation to inform oneself, but if you have an exact expectation form this one product (like op had) it's just logical thinking that you inform yourself; atleast google it once.All informations about this item are there - official from anet or not - everybody who wants it can get every information about this item.Don't get enough information ist just because you just don't want to inform yourself, thats it. Atleast that's my opinion.And if you have wrong expections on an item just because you didn't inform yourself, it's nobody else fault than yours. Also just my opinion.Obligation or not, if i want certain thing i make sure that i buy the correct item for that.

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@FrizzFreston.5290 said:Whether you think having the information on the wiki is enough or not, Even I dont read all the wiki related information on gemstore items. In fact, I am probably less inclined to buy something if I cant fully see what Im buying ingame.

As in, i need to be really interested to even begin searching outside the game for more information. I think an easy button that links to or shows more information on the details of said item could be really useful. Many online shops have it and while some are better at that it than others, its usually helpful. Also as I automatically distrust it if I dont have easy access to such information.

Ofcourse, for the gemstore to link to the wiki would in no way be all useful when the wiki doesnt get updated basically right away by those launching a new gemstore item.

So while Anet might not be obligated to write a more clear description, it definitely would come across better if they showed more complete and transparent information. Knowing that this mostly only matters in the more complicated gemstore items like this gardenplot.

You can access the wiki from the chat window. just type /wiki (space) then the name of the item/spell/etc you have questions on. - ie /wiki garden

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@PyrateSilly.4710 said:

@FrizzFreston.5290 said:Whether you think having the information on the wiki is enough or not, Even I dont read all the wiki related information on gemstore items. In fact, I am probably less inclined to buy something if I cant fully see what Im buying ingame.

As in, i need to be really interested to even begin searching outside the game for more information. I think an easy button that links to or shows more information on the details of said item could be really useful. Many online shops have it and while some are better at that it than others, its usually helpful. Also as I automatically distrust it if I dont have easy access to such information.

Ofcourse, for the gemstore to link to the wiki would in no way be all useful when the wiki doesnt get updated basically right away by those launching a new gemstore item.

So while Anet might not be obligated to write a more clear description, it definitely would come across better if they showed more complete and transparent information. Knowing that this mostly only matters in the more complicated gemstore items like this gardenplot.

You can access the wiki from the chat window. just type /wiki (space) then the name of the item/spell/etc you have questions on. - ie /wiki garden

I know. Even better, though not working for all gemstore items, you can type /wiki(space) and shift right click any ingame item to directly go to the wikipage related to that item. (as in pinging an item with shift rather than control so it can be used within a sentence or in this case, with a chat command.

But I was mostly thinking about how it could be streamlined/improved, because even if its so easy to wiki, not everyone knows or does.

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@Karaha.3290 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@"ghost.5478" said:I have the real feeling of being scammed.

I would like to get reasoned explanations from ArenaNet because here I am talking about real money spent on you. A shame !

You just could check gw2wiki and inform yourself befor buying . . .I mean it's been a while since they released the garden plot thing, you can find every information about it on gw2wiki, reddit and even by just using the map chat.

You are talking about real money you spent but you were not effort to inform yourself about the item you spent your real money for?Yea, that is a shame, a shame that you are upset about your own mistakes and try to blame others for that.Inform yourself about the things you want to buy and don't "guess" it could be what you want it to be.And if you want to force yourself to buy a pig in a poke, don't blame others if you don't get want you want.

nowhere in gemstore Anet states there is something more about the deed than what is being presented in gemstore purchase description

Like i wrote, check gw2wiki, reddit, mapchat or whatever. There are enough sources to get your informations.For example, if you want to buy a car, you inform yourself using more sources than only the sellers description. Especially when sellers description don't answer all your questions.

This is about real money trading. The seller should provide full information about the product or link to the proper source. Nothing like this happens in gemstore regarding item in question and no customer has any obligation to read or know about wiki or reddit which are not Anet official marketing channels.

Well, do you get full information about any product you buy in reallife; with real money? I don't think so.

As a customers we should demand fair treatment every time companies try to abuse us. It should start with simple things like this one so customers are not slaves to corporations. We are on losing ground not because of laws but because of people defending such practices with arguments "such is a way of life" or "everyone does that". Companies will never improve for customers unless customers demand improvement.

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@PyrateSilly.4710 said:

@FrizzFreston.5290 said:Whether you think having the information on the wiki is enough or not, Even I dont read all the wiki related information on gemstore items. In fact, I am probably less inclined to buy something if I cant fully see what Im buying ingame.

As in, i need to be really interested to even begin searching outside the game for more information. I think an easy button that links to or shows more information on the details of said item could be really useful. Many online shops have it and while some are better at that it than others, its usually helpful. Also as I automatically distrust it if I dont have easy access to such information.

Ofcourse, for the gemstore to link to the wiki would in no way be all useful when the wiki doesnt get updated basically right away by those launching a new gemstore item.

So while Anet might not be obligated to write a more clear description, it definitely would come across better if they showed more complete and transparent information. Knowing that this mostly only matters in the more complicated gemstore items like this gardenplot.

You can access the wiki from the chat window. just type /wiki (space) then the name of the item/spell/etc you have questions on. - ie /wiki garden

Which is stated nowhere in game or in gemstore.

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