Standard Warfare Essentials

[hugeboss.5432]

There are too few professions that actually comply to the general soldier gear requirements rule, and that is disturbing in a combat focused game. It's fine if you are playing solitaire, but that hopefully isn't the case. In history, successfull soldiers have 3 basic essential pieces of equipment:

1. Defensive armor
2. Melee (close combat) weapon
3. Ranged weapon

This is the basic setup of soldiers almost since the dawn of war (the Roman army for example), and it should be the minimum standard for any decent combat simulation game world. The original GW2 dev team once stated that all professions have or should have a viable ranged weapon option (so everyone should be able to deal damage), and imo every profession should atleast be average equipped for the typical different kinds of combat constantly encountered.

However, in recent years it is becoming apparent that the "balancing patches" has caused a serious split in wvw professions & their balance of melee / ranged prowness. Alot of professions & weapon skills have been changed so they cannot do both viable, reliable & average melee & ranged dmg anymore, causing alot of professions to be ridicolously easily countered in specific situations on the battlefield (they would of died out a long time ago).

Contrary to belief, the Pirate Ship Meta is not a tactic chosen by a really organized team, but it is the only viable tactic against the huge number inbalances we constantly see, and the lack of team commanders & organization (it is not because professions could or can deal range dmg at all).

8 men should never charge into a tight 50 man blob & the only viable option for them is to do the cloud formation & pirate ship (or simply dont show up to defend which is even more destructive to the battlefield itself than a "pirate ship"). I know a few commanders while ridiculing pirate ship, they themselves are guilty of over blobbing enemy teams with their superior team population inbalance. Its easy to believe you are good at combat when you have the superior number coverage, but in equal numbered combat we do see the best combative servers are competitively matched against eachother (if they all play the game mode properly... 'stares at Mag'). Hopefully fixing the wvw population team balance should lead to better large scale fights & less "non engagments" in wvw.

Please balance more professions to be on the general level of soldier warfare requirements! Stop this nonsense of chipping away at the professions abilities to deal atleast average dmg in both melee & range combat, as that just causes "non engagements"!

[Dawdler.8521]

@hugeboss.5432 said:Contrary to belief, the Pirate Ship Meta is not a tactic chosen by a really organized team, but it is the only viable tactic against the huge number inbalances we constantly see, and the lack of team commanders & organization (it is not because professions could or can deal range dmg at all).

Haha wat? The pirate ship meta is dead. Zone blobs just load up on firebrands and spellbreakers and steamroll in a melee ball. The scourges are plentiful (ie half the zerg) but they arent actually pirate shipping anymore, they are supporting the melee push. But granted, maybe US hasnt caught up with the meta yet.

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@hugeboss.5432 said:Contrary to belief, the Pirate Ship Meta is not a tactic chosen by a really organized team, but it is the only viable tactic against the huge number inbalances we constantly see, and the lack of team commanders & organization (it is not because professions could or can deal range dmg at all).

Haha wat? The pirate ship meta is dead. Zone blobs just load up on firebrands and spellbreakers and steamroll in a melee ball. The scourges are plentiful (ie half the zerg) but they arent actually pirate shipping anymore, they are supporting the melee push. But granted, maybe US hasnt caught up with the meta yet.

Given I had accounts on both ends I can only observe what I have seen on Vabbi(and now FSP)/Mag. EU and NA fights can get pretty passive the first 80% of the fight, then there is a push once the passive game play has generated downs. In some few cases of abundant spellbreakers there is a bubble rush. Only noticeable difference is that Mag clouds without a tag more often than Vabbi (and FSP).

As for the OP, I'd encourage not relating it to the realities of war. We do have magic, and what not. In general I would like to see a change in meta but...well...wvw is not the balance team. Right?

[Chaba.5410]

There's two things I think the OP is trying to say:

1) Every class should have viable melee and ranged skills/weapons for balance.2) Imbalances with #1 lead to either melee ball or pirate ship metas rather than groups having situational per-battle choices between the two.

Although by the description I question what the OP means by pirate ship because it sounded more like kiting larger groups.

[LetoII.3782]

To paraphrase one of my favorite presidential debates (Mcain/Obama) the modern military has a severe lack of bayonets and cavalry sabres, yet defends itself perfectly well. The current meta is more minefield than pirate ship ala WWI. The blob finds a short defensive line, plasters it with semipermanant aoe then waits for the other side to attempt a frontal assualt... So yeah, swords don't come into it til quite late in the engagement, lots of loitering.

As to which class doesn't have viable ranged... Sounds like something a warrior would say, and they'd be full of it.

[Israel.7056]

@hugeboss.5432 said:Its easy to believe you are good at combat when you have the superior number coverage, but in equal numbered combat we do see the best combative servers are competitively matched against eachother (if they all play the game mode properly... 'stares at Mag').

What?

[starlinvf.1358]

@Israel.7056 said:

@hugeboss.5432 said:Its easy to believe you are good at combat when you have the superior number coverage, but in equal numbered combat we do see the best combative servers are competitively matched against eachother (if they all play the game mode properly... 'stares at Mag').

What?

Its the first, second and third laws of Zerg Dynamics. This game operates heavily on attrition for big fights; so naturally bigger groups output higher attrition rates against the enemy teams.

[Israel.7056]

@starlinvf.1358 said:This game operates heavily on attrition for big fights; so naturally bigger groups output higher attrition rates against the enemy teams.

This is only true if you're fighting next to someone's spawn or if you lack the damage to fully and quickly wipe your opponent. The biggest issue I see against almost every server we face is that way too many enemy players are playing supportish builds which is why they are easy to completely overwhelm if the numbers even slightly shift against them.

[starlinvf.1358]

@Israel.7056 said:

@starlinvf.1358 said:This game operates heavily on attrition for big fights; so naturally bigger groups output higher attrition rates against the enemy teams.

This is only true if you're fighting next to someone's spawn or if you lack the damage to fully and quickly wipe your opponent. The biggest issue I see against almost every server we face is that way too many enemy players are playing supportish builds which is why they are easy to completely overwhelm if the numbers even slightly shift against them.

There is a threshold in sustain where survivability hikes from outpacing offensive counters. I know what they're going for, and it makes sense if their opposition relies on burst tactics. If you can out-sustain the initial bomb, then the enemy has nothing to follow up with, and leaves them open to clean up. On the other end, their idea is that if they burst down enemy and overload their sustain, then that commander can't do anything in response.

It doesn't change my above. Only that its moved the conversation on to the nuances of force multipliers.

[aspirine.6852]

If you play on vabbi you really must know how much necro's you have. We already said many times in chat that this gives a whole New meaning to the scourge of vabbi.

[starlinvf.1358]

@"aspirine.6852" said:If you play on vabbi you really must know how much necro's you have. We already said many times in chat that this gives a whole New meaning to the scourge of vabbi.

You should name your alliance "Children of Joko"