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(PVP) Tempest: why it was good, why it's sucks and some general buff ideas


Mr Godlike.6098
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It's been a while from balance patch and it looks like it's safe to say that tempest is still dead in pvp. Something that should be alternative to firebrand...stays being completely inferior...not worthy even to be called half potential.

Let's look why it worked in first place:

-Meta builds that were viable in tournaments:season 1: celestial staffhttp://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQFAWn0XCdOg9XCWYCcYiFRAbIAMAufEdgEQFwttGXzrA-jpQWAAbZAY/BAtill pof: first cleric then mender tempest healbothttp://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAodn0XCdOg9XCWYCcYilNAjYFcBGBu71/6hd4BEAKgA-jpQWABAs/AulBAAand Team Denial Draze variant:http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAodn0XCdOgNOAOYCcYilNAb4BEAKgu71/6hlYFkBGBA-jpQ7gAA7PQWGAA

-First reaper needed healing support to stay alive and meta needed reaper to demolish team fights and healing with tempest is easiest thing in game: bunch of skills that aoe heal allies without targeting...just stay close to them. This couldn't be so easily done by even druid that is much better in burst healing. Same with rev (also must have in pro team) needed ele to stay alive vs conditions and shouts in those days where enough to deal with that. Tempest has more little merits: a lot of projectile hate (the best in game even these days) and perma protection for everyone, a bit of cc and aoe pressure on nodes.-Second - synergies with other classes! This was actually the only thing that I liked about tempest in pvp. It actually had mechanics that worked really well with other classes ekhem ekhem reaper and rev. Reaper/tempest duo was legitimately the strongest duo in pvp besides...power rev/ tempest duo. Deal with reaper worked like this: basically a lot of stuff happens when reaper hit's chilled foe... bleeds, chilling nova proc and he gains might. Trick was chill source didn't have to be from necro and guess who applies a lot chill besides necro - ele and especially tempest. So without fire blasting with just spamming chill we might stack on necro and indirectly do damage. Also I think that condi reaper was the only class that actually could benefit from ALL our auras. Fire and frost aura for example on necro deals chill, bleed and burn supported by carrion amulet damage. Also tempest blasting ice fields (reaper shroud 5) works almost the same like water blasting for healing and finally amazing fire overload+reaper shroud 4 combo that destroyed everything in radius.Story with rev is not that amazing...rev in skilled hands felt OP broken with additional healing and condi removal. But rev had something for us - fury and might for free that made mender tempest actually damaging and overall we ele's don't have any reliable fury source.

Now why it's now dead?-This is the most obvious one: Firebrand. It not case of healing output but amount of different utilities that PoF guard spec can provide:Same as tempest: might, healing, condi cleanse, protection, worse but still projectile hate and ALSO: aegis, powerful ress, resistance, stun breaks for team on demand, stability for team on demand...basically every boon in the game spam. Firebrand can provide with so many different forms of support and tempest has...basically only healing. And the best of it - firebrand doesn't require any other class to be effective. Just look at last UGO's: in almost every team comp firebrand...scourge completely optional.-Tempest duos are dead in pvp...well not quite. Reaper was completely replaced by scourge that has no skill/trait combinations with tempest...and rev still struggles in meta dominated by mes/thief (counters since HoT). It sadness me personally...it was fun and unique how tempest interacted with other classes and HoT mechanics...and PoF is mostly about simple...primitive...damage power creep.-Before last patch there was quite a lot of talk about possible tempest healbot comeback in pvp. Firebrand self sustain get's more and more horrible...issue is that firebrand is great vs condi...but it get's completely shut down by power damage...and now meta is completely power based. Tempest healbot has a lot power damage reductions so it seemed that it could work. Unfortunately tempest sustain just sucks overall - basically can't survive PoF condi pressure...explodes just after obsidian flesh is gone after any kind of enemy team focused pressure. Who needs healer that can't survive few seconds in teamfight? Of course it's not exactly true in ranked experience...but right now for me even deadeye/soulbeast are viable in plat+ so we are talking only about tournaments.

How it could be buffed?I would personally would want tempest to be firebrand alternative that had something unique on it's own...like damage. Much I think could be improved if clunky, hard to aim warhorn skills where provided with some life quality improvements like FURY GAIN ON HEAT SYNC. If warhorn was actually viable in pvp (and viable weapon option vs focus) tempest gain some much more support/damage options...Definitely tempest sustain is an issue and even celestial comeback didn't helped cause all synergies with amulet are dead (to slow might stacking, boons work in teamfight only for firebrand, protection duration nerf, high healing power numbers demanded for skill's). Amulet's solutions no good - could buff firebrand. Tempest should have sustain on pair of firebrand at least - just be countered by different things like condi. Instead of buffing core I would buff/rework tempest traits that are completely dead in ALL GAME MODES like lucid singularity.

Side note: sorry for wall text, lot of not native English. I just wanted to write something useful instead of complaining all the time about ele pvp state.

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The main problem is that people still desire to play tempest with d/f...it simply won't work not in this meta and this level of dmg, the tempest sustain is certainly there so it doesn't need buffs, instead the main issues are a couple of traits : harmonius conduit and lucid singularity for which I have two suggestions - A ) Harmonious conduit now apply 2 stacks of stab from 1 on overload and B ) Lucid singularity now remove torment/slow on top of chill/cripple and immobilize.

Staff is preferable to d/f given the plethora of melee hate in gw2 now and d/f does not possess the evade uptime of sword/dagger or the facetanking potential of a spellbreaker; d/f is still decent but obviously outdated, these days damage avoidance is everything

It can be quite challenging to reach a staff ele if he position himself good and water stafff 2-5 offers still unparalleled healing support thn add water 4 and you have quite an headache on your plate. The dmg of thief has been drastically reduced, so it's no more a lost cause like insta death vs thieves on staff.

Give staff tempest a shot in pvp, mender staff tempest...it's not meta but I consider it more viable than d/f tempest

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...and they are absolutely right to want run tempest with D/F setup! It provides 3 auras and it's most defensive setup thanks to amazing focus skills...is absolutely the most our defensive setup...and let's face it...generally ele sustain SUCKS ON EVERTHING with EVERTHING besides Sw/D weaver. Issue is this - everything besides weaver has no means to actively migrate damage - tempest and core deal with damage passively (by damage reductions) or after it get's hit with healing. That's why we had stop to solo bunker nodes after cleric removal...damage was ALREADY TO HIGH in HoT...now in PoF there is even more damage everywhere and 1-shot combos...all we have on tempest is basically obsidian flesh and protection that can be removed even easier then ever. Generally Ele sustain outside weaver needs to be addressed by devs.

Staff worked AND IT WAS META IN SEASON 1 and unfortunately it was in meta in season 1...season where the most damaging thing was...do something actually did damage back then since almost everything used un-nerfed celestial? I also support idea of staff tempest but first sustain problem needs to addressed. In case of staff in my opinion cele amulet mechanics must be re-introduced or un-nerfed to make it optimal in pvp that mean: higher duration and more frequent protection/might application, access to fury and less healing power dependency on everything tempest related. Till at least something is done - there is NO viable weapon tempest setup in pvp in PoF.

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@Mr Godlike.6098 said:Is it my fault that there is pve in this game? Why so toxic?

Well ideally there should be no class in PvP like brawling keg, survive on southsun and the few other. This way I'm pretty sure a lot of balance complaints wouldn't even exit. If someone want balanced PvP, then you need to get rid of classes.

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Really nice analysis of tempest before and now.

I don’t agree that tempest needs buffing though, name any other class EXCEPT FIREBRAND that comes close to the level of support a tempest puts out? The problem is firebrand and how it simply is the perfect support elite on top of one of the best support classes in the game which has essentially backed ANet into a corner.

No one has the balls to admit it but firebrand needs a meteoric nerf to the tomes, we are talking 1s cast to take them out or more to balance out how good they are. Once FB has its downsides tempest becomes a more viable option. I do not want to see more buffs, this game has become a spam fest since HoT which has only seen players leave in droves from the top PvP players to the casuals. Just look at your friends lists and how many have left because this once amazing combat experience has deteriorated into the horrible mess it is now.

Edit: also the amount of AoE CC went up within the meta which really shafts tempest whether you have harmonious conduit or not. Someone hits a SB while you’re overloading or your overload hits FC? Sucks to be you, RIP overload. Chrono spams CC, holo has CC coming out of its eyeballs along with stupid damage levels, firebrand has extra CC, scourge saves a fear or corrupts your stab, it’s no win.

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...and they are absolutely right to want run tempest with D/F setup! It provides 3 auras and it's most defensive setup thanks to amazing focus skills...is absolutely the most our defensive setup...and let's face it...generally ele sustain SUCKS ON EVERTHING with EVERTHING besides Sw/D weaver. Issue is this - everything besides weaver has no means to actively migrate damage - tempest and core deal with damage passively (by damage reductions) or after it get's hit with healing. That's why we had stop to solo bunker nodes after cleric removal...damage was ALREADY TO HIGH in HoT...now in PoF there is even more damage everywhere and 1-shot combos...all we have on tempest is basically obsidian flesh and protection that can be removed even easier then ever. Generally Ele sustain outside weaver needs to be addressed by devs.

Staff worked AND IT WAS META IN SEASON 1 and unfortunately it was in meta in season 1...season where the most damaging thing was...do something actually did damage back then since almost everything used un-nerfed celestial? I also support idea of staff tempest but first sustain problem needs to addressed. In case of staff in my opinion cele amulet mechanics must be re-introduced or un-nerfed to make it optimal in pvp that mean: higher duration and more frequent protection/might application, access to fury and less healing power dependency on everything tempest related. Till at least something is done - there is NO viable weapon tempest setup in pvp in PoF.

...and they are absolutely right to want run tempest with D/F setup! It provides 3 auras and it's most defensive setup thanks to amazing focus skills...is absolutely the most our defensive setup...and let's face it...generally ele sustain SUCKS ON EVERTHING with EVERTHING besides Sw/D weaver. Issue is this - everything besides weaver has no means to actively migrate damage - tempest and core deal with damage passively (by damage reductions) or after it get's hit with healing. That's why we had stop to solo bunker nodes after cleric removal...damage was ALREADY TO HIGH in HoT...now in PoF there is even more damage everywhere and 1-shot combos...all we have on tempest is basically obsidian flesh and protection that can be removed even easier then ever. Generally Ele sustain outside weaver needs to be addressed by devs.

Staff worked AND IT WAS META IN SEASON 1 and unfortunately it was in meta in season 1...season where the most damaging thing was...do something actually did damage back then since almost everything used un-nerfed celestial? I also support idea of staff tempest but first sustain problem needs to addressed. In case of staff in my opinion cele amulet mechanics must be re-introduced or un-nerfed to make it optimal in pvp that mean: higher duration and more frequent protection/might application, access to fury and less healing power dependency on everything tempest related. Till at least something is done - there is NO viable weapon tempest setup in pvp in PoF.

With d/f you try to "tank" dmg but really you can't tank anything on ele anymore on any weapon set, everything is about damage avoidance now that's why s/d weaver is semi viable, it doesn't tank dmg in the most natural known way like old d/f but rather it "dodges" its way through all the mayhem .

in the same vein, a staff ele can mitigate dmg but carefully using frozen ground and static field, never forgetting skills like burning retreat which is skill n1 for survival on a staff ele. I am not saying that staff ele is a duellist, I am suggesting that now staff ele is in a better place respect to before because many gap closer apex predators got toned down a lot ( thief- dragonhunter -herald) and the weapon set is by a longshot more balanced that d/f and let me explain way :

1) The tools to do your job at range, you have the skills to stay at range and maximize dmg from range2) Most complete set in terms of overall efficiency : a blind, a block, heal, condi clear, reflect

It's time to admit it, I know you guys love obsidian flesh to death but...what focus offers after that? Does it offer really that much defense to forgo the mobility/disengage of dagger OF?

-The fire/water skills of focus remain some of the worst skills on ele-no real ranged option to pair with focus

If I had to tier list weapon sets on ele.....

A ) staffB ) sword/daggerC ) dagger/daggerD ) dagger/focusC ) scepter/focusE ) scepter/dagger

Listed them based on their ability to reflect the adaptive nature of ele

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@apharma.3741 said:Really nice analysis of tempest before and now.

I don’t agree that tempest needs buffing though, name any other class EXCEPT FIREBRAND that comes close to the level of support a tempest puts out? The problem is firebrand and how it simply is the perfect support elite on top of one of the best support classes in the game which has essentially backed ANet into a corner.

No one has the balls to admit it but firebrand needs a meteoric nerf to the tomes, we are talking 1s cast to take them out or more to balance out how good they are. Once FB has its downsides tempest becomes a more viable option. I do not want to see more buffs, this game has become a spam fest since HoT which has only seen players leave in droves from the top PvP players to the casuals. Just look at your friends lists and how many have left because this once amazing combat experience has deteriorated into the horrible mess it is now.

Edit: also the amount of AoE CC went up within the meta which really shafts tempest whether you have harmonious conduit or not. Someone hits a SB while you’re overloading or your overload hits FC? Sucks to be you, RIP overload. Chrono spams CC, holo has CC coming out of its eyeballs along with stupid damage levels, firebrand has extra CC, scourge saves a fear or corrupts your stab, it’s no win.

As someone who mains guardian and does not like FB support build. The problem is FB support is extremely strong, but without healing power, the tomes are very poor. FB dps is way inferior to core and DH in PvP, both in damage and sustainability. The previous nerfs to FB, just pushed dps builds out, instead of normalizing FB support build. Though removing the aegis spam was a must.

I think the best solution to FB is to restore the nerfs to tome of resolve and heal mantra in PvP, then significantly reduce the heal scaling and remove the aoe resistance.

As for tempest, even if we remove FB tomorrow, tempest will remain unusable. The current design does not work at all with the amount of boon rip/corruption. This is not a tempest only issue, but overall failure in game design.

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@otto.5684Kinda agree. Reason why in first place build is considered in 5-man tournament comp is number of scenarios where build is useful. It's quantity over quality. It's not matter of healing numbers - it a matter amount of different forms of support you can provide (in case firebrand/tempest in pvp). I already described this in first comment.

Amount of stuff that had to be removed/reworked on firebrand to be on level of tempest support is ridiculous:Patch notes basically from hell example:-move ress trait on trait line with no defensive synergies with firebrand like Zeal-only two specific trait lines can be used with firebrand, let's say only Honor and Valor - You don't run Honor->class has zero condi clense;no Valor->class has zero protection boon source. I know that in reality these traits work completely different but this is how tempest relation with earth/water traits look like.-extra vitality trait removed-ressitance boon removed from class-aegis is removed-firebrand can only give himself stability.-guardian has only one aoe stunbreak and it has 40s cooldown-all firebrand utilities are shouts now...no ammo mechanic-ACESSING TOMEs SKILLS HAVE 4s CAST TIME (you press f1 and wait to see tome of justice skills) - if interrupted tome goes on cooldown with extra+12s cool...correction...doubled cooldown. WTF is this? Look at tempest overload mechanic.-firebrand can only wear helmet...this all armor stat he get's.-from now on firebrand needs to face tank everything, you deal with all sources of damage by only healing and 3s immune.-from now on you explode when you see scourge.

Do you get my point? This is pure nonsense!

I say it again: I don't want firebrand to be removed or nerfed into oblivion in pvp. I would like to see Firebrand to be an OPTION that as a healing support class provides different stuff and tempest as a healing alternative that provides it own unique stuff like for example damage. Do something about tempest sustain to be on pair of firebrand but countered by different builds, fix warhorn for god sake or give us enough bulk to use staff again vs meta.

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sPvP and wvw make all of the WH fields stay on the tempest it self. Also add in a lighting field on Lightning Orb that stays on the tempest, as well as making Tidal Surge into a frost field that makes ppl slip (once per target). I would love to see an earth and or dust field from Dust Storm that stays on the tempest but there no such thing as such fields but one can dream.

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@"Jski.6180"

Actually there are - druid celestial avatar water field ,,travels" with caster, berserker torch firefield. Issue with those kinds of ideas (good one's by the way) is that they are reworks...and those are extremely not likely...basically there are making new skills and it effects every game mode.

I would want WH to actually be fixed cause so many stuff are just clunky or in-practical in pvp. Let's see:Fire:Heat sync - why not fury gain? Basically NO FURY SORUCE ON DEMAND ON ANY ELE BUILD... WEAVER INCLUDED?Wildfire - why no targeting? Like backwards? We play the glassiest class in pvp and do we always have to face tank everything?Water:Tidal surge: never can tell if radius of this skill actually hit's something or not. Why no aoe marker?Water globe: in my preference I can blast it when I need it so it's fineAir:Cyclone - look wildfireLighting orb - it's okEarth:Sand Squall: okDust storm: It's strong...but something is missing...like radius is to small forcing to stay in one place...it's useless when we have to kite to survive.

This are small ideas compering to the fact that fundaments (core and Tempest elite spec) sustain was already pathetic in HoT (since season 4)...and garbage in PoF.

Still I can see potential of WH. I remember first ESL (not proleague) just after release of HoT. Me and friends wanted to just try it...and went against UE Mango Bay (I wonder what happened with these guys)...and they demolished us with 2 Tempest..with warhorns...blasting team fights and side nodes with perma 25 stack's of might and storm of aoe's. It looked amazing.

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@Mr Godlike.6098 said:

@"Jski.6180"

Actually there are - druid celestial avatar water field ,,travels" with caster, berserker torch firefield. Issue with those kinds of ideas (good one's by the way) is that they are reworks...and those are extremely not likely...basically there are making new skills and it effects every game mode.

I would want WH to actually be fixed cause so many stuff are just clunky or in-practical in pvp. Let's see:Fire:Heat sync - why not fury gain? Basically NO FURY SORUCE ON DEMAND ON ANY ELE BUILD... WEAVER INCLUDED?Wildfire - why no targeting? Like backwards? We play the glassiest class in pvp and do we always have to face tank everything?Water:Tidal surge: never can tell if radius of this skill actually hit's something or not. Why no aoe marker?Water globe: in my preference I can blast it when I need it so it's fineAir:Cyclone - look wildfireLighting orb - it's okEarth:Sand Squall: okDust storm: It's strong...but something is missing...like radius is to small forcing to stay in one place...it's useless when we have to kite to survive.

This are small ideas compering to the fact that fundaments (core and Tempest elite spec) sustain was already pathetic in HoT (since season 4)...and garbage in PoF.

Still I can see potential of WH. I remember first ESL (not proleague) just after release of HoT. Me and friends wanted to just try it...and went against UE Mango Bay (I wonder what happened with these guys)...and they demolished us with 2 Tempest..with warhorns...blasting team fights and side nodes with perma 25 stack's of might and storm of aoe's. It looked amazing.

Ele is the elemental class not durid and berserker so having fields of the 4 types (needs to be 5 to 7 but that asking for a lot) should fit well.

WH problem or the clunkyness is the fact that its both a part melee and ranged wepon. Having effect fire off from the ele is good but if they are slow moving then offten it becomes a problem and makes you need to move with them giving you less control over what going on. If you let the ele keep it on it self then you can chose where to go during a fight.

Heat sync needs fury build in.Wildfire needs to stay at the ele feet.Tidal surge needs s rework and becomes a ice skill having 2 water skills seems lazzy and boring. It should be that ice field effect with a slip not a crazy long cast time knock back.Water globe needs to stay on the ele right now it can be destoryed by anty porjtial and it dose not do enofe to make it worth the risk.Cyclone is good as is.Lighting orb needs to be an effect that stays on the ele it self so you can push how you want the attk moves.Sand squall is ok as is.Dust storm dose not fit a melee class it should stay on the ele it self. I would love to see it as an earth field too.

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I agree the Tempest needs to be looked at, big time.

I used to run an off-meta staff Tempest build that worked pretty well, even helped me get to platinum. I used Water/Air/Tempest with Tempest Defense and Lightning Rod. The whole setup just got completely neutered during the nerfs to Tempest Defense, Lightning Strike, and the removal of Runes of Surging, because of other problem classes.

My point is, even my Off-Meta Tempest build is now just plain lackluster in just about every setting.

What I would personally like to see is a change or buff to their Overloads. It is extremely hard to land a full Overload in any setting besides the Earth Overload, but the damage is not worth the effort you have to put in just to pull it off, because you are just standing their channeling it. It can be good when specced specifically for dps, but then you just become a walking target. I feel like the Tempest just got pigeon-holed into a spot where it doesn't know what to do with itself.

I'm a little tired at the time I saw this post, so I'm going to go sleep on this for awhile to put my thoughts together. Thanks for putting this up, OP.

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Update: In recent Mist Challengers tournament we had ele at last in team (3th place), first since first ATm PoF - and ele had balls ->staff tempest, no earth but actually arcane (arcane ress trait!).

NA team comp was kinda weird tho (why core guard? no thief?)...hard to say how it actually performed...would love to hear how it went from that ele perspective.

His build:http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQFAWn0XCdOg9XCWOAcYiFWAztq2VLrEJgDQAoIJ2AqAA-jJxHABA8AAkvMA77Po8FAAA

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@Mr Godlike.6098 said:Update: In recent Mist Challengers tournament we had ele at last in team (3th place), first since first ATm PoF - and ele had balls ->staff tempest, no earth but actually arcane (arcane ress trait!).

NA team comp was kinda weird tho (why core guard? no thief?)...hard to say how it actually performed...would love to hear how it went from that ele perspective.

His build:http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQFAWn0XCdOg9XCWOAcYiFWAztq2VLrEJgDQAoIJ2AqAA-jJxHABA8AAkvMA77Po8FAAA

Apparently is was just trolling because Wakkey (who played the ele) wanted to play the tourney but only knows Ele and FB, while their Guard only knew core guard, so they tried to put something kinda workable together. Quote from the guard in the PVP thread:

It was great to see ele (staff ele actually!) competing but still hard to say if that build is here to stay in current meta...or be forgotten again.

Haha it was definitely a meme. Nos wakkey and I wanted to play but wakkey only knows FB and ele and I only play guardian so we had to make something work :)
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@"Mr Godlike.6098" said:Update: In recent Mist Challengers tournament we had ele at last in team (3th place), first since first ATm PoF - and ele had balls ->staff tempest, no earth but actually arcane (arcane ress trait!).

NA team comp was kinda weird tho (why core guard? no thief?)...hard to say how it actually performed...would love to hear how it went from that ele perspective.

His build:http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQFAWn0XCdOg9XCWOAcYiFWAztq2VLrEJgDQAoIJ2AqAA-jJxHABA8AAkvMA77Po8FAAA

I played fb not core.

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@Best.3479 said:

@"Mr Godlike.6098" said:Update: In recent Mist Challengers tournament we had ele at last in team (3th place), first since first ATm PoF - and ele had balls ->staff tempest, no earth but actually arcane (arcane ress trait!).

NA team comp was kinda weird tho (why core guard? no thief?)...hard to say how it actually performed...would love to hear how it went from that ele perspective.

His build:

I played fb not core.

Sorry for that...don't blame...was more hyped about ele part of your team:P

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I don't get all these posts about tempest not needing buffs. All tempest does is provide heals. Its defense & sustain for itself are awful and die super fast when focused, especially right after they've burned their focus earth 5. Not enough condi clenses against either scourges or condi mirages; not enough stunbreaks against holos/spellbreakers/thiefs/mirages that run dazes, not to mention all interrupts hard counter tempests.

If you've watched carefully in the mist challenger tourny where USA team B ran a meme staff tempest, you'll see how tempest was literally useless the whole time -- standing off node casting some cc aoes and 1k damage proc meme shower and only existed for the arcane rez trait, getting carried AND SUPPORTED by their fb and scourge.

Even scrapper supports and sustains better than tempest.

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@"LazySummer.2568"

As guy who played in all HoT ranked seasons as healbot/druid I can say that general pvp population overrates healing...when actually it give you power to reset the fights...no matter if it's winnable or not...and people call it sustain. Look at damm Spellbraker - THIS IS SUSTAIN when face tank damage while keeping pressure.

Ability to reset fights is not bad. Pro league team Denial was great at this - mid team fight is not looking good? Let's mes portal far -> tempest spam heals -> port back mid->ez contesting mid. That's why tempest was meta HoT...because it works in full man premade. In ranked...well ask firebrands that took our job...how fun is to reset failures of bad teammates in wrong places, scourges pretending that they do damage ect. Or what firebrand can do being +1 by thief/mes in already dangerous 1v1 and how they give s**t about his healing.

Other thing is what I call ,,unkillable myth". Forums where swarmed by posts about immortal ele before HoT how it's impossible to kill ele in 1v1, 1v2, 1v3 ect. Of course it was hysteria similar to current Mesmer hate train. Before HoT people pretended that Necro couldn't counter it, that chill, poison and boon corrupt didn't exist...and after cleric removal in HoT that tempest can still bunker nodes no matter how outnumbered. But thanks to our ,,reputation" nobody really tried in ranked to focus ele first in team fight and then deal with reaper...well thank god majority of our pvp player base didn't care for Pro-league. Focusing ele first was standard there. Well now myth is long gone...and even scrubs will focus ele something over scourge.

Side note: I also believe that scrapper even in current state is much more useful then tempest.

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  • 6 months later...

@LazySummer.2568 said:I don't get all these posts about tempest not needing buffs. All tempest does is provide heals. Its defense & sustain for itself are awful and die super fast when focused, especially right after they've burned their focus earth 5. Not enough condi clenses against either scourges or condi mirages; not enough stunbreaks against holos/spellbreakers/thiefs/mirages that run dazes, not to mention all interrupts hard counter tempests.

If you've watched carefully in the mist challenger tourny where USA team B ran a meme staff tempest, you'll see how tempest was literally useless the whole time -- standing off node casting some cc aoes and 1k damage proc meme shower and only existed for the arcane rez trait, getting carried AND SUPPORTED by their fb and scourge.

Even scrapper supports and sustains better than tempest.

Fire has a trait line that removes condi on aura share... its practically impossible to condi kill anyone with a tempest running this build in the team fight. Fire/water build that is.

Combine that with a bunch of passive fire auras and you got yourself 25 perma might... also that will include passive condi removals and heals.

Add in some damage multiplyers, boost ferocity via air and next thing you know you got yourself a decent celestial build that hits quite hard, brings great utility support and superior movement for quick decaps if you run D/D, has enough tools, damage and sustain to be a side noder too.

ALOT of people forget that thier overloads ARE stunbreaks, we got 4 packed into our kit just from being a Tempest... You can also take the trait for stab on overloads, helps a lot for side noding on fire/air lightning rod build when fighting SB or Holo.

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@sephiroth.4217 said:

@"LazySummer.2568" said:I don't get all these posts about tempest not needing buffs. All tempest does is provide heals. Its defense & sustain for itself are awful and die super fast when focused, especially right after they've burned their focus earth 5. Not enough condi clenses against either scourges or condi mirages; not enough stunbreaks against holos/spellbreakers/thiefs/mirages that run dazes, not to mention all interrupts hard counter tempests.

If you've watched carefully in the mist challenger tourny where USA team B ran a meme staff tempest, you'll see how tempest was literally useless the whole time -- standing off node casting some cc aoes and 1k damage proc meme shower and only existed for the arcane rez trait, getting carried AND SUPPORTED by their fb and scourge.

Even scrapper supports and sustains better than tempest.

Fire has a trait line that removes condi on aura share... its practically impossible to condi kill anyone with a tempest running this build in the team fight. Fire/water build that is.

Combine that with a bunch of passive fire auras and you got yourself 25 perma might... also that will include passive condi removals and heals.

Add in some damage multiplyers, boost ferocity via air and next thing you know you got yourself a decent celestial build that hits quite hard, brings great utility support and superior movement for quick decaps if you run D/D, has enough tools, damage and sustain to be a side noder too.

ALOT of people forget that thier overloads ARE stunbreaks, we got 4 packed into our kit just from being a Tempest... You can also take the trait for stab on overloads, helps a lot for side noding on fire/air lightning rod build when fighting SB or Holo.

Nobody forgot overloads are stunbreaks. They are just the worst stunbreak in the whole game. You have to camp attunement and not use that overload just for the stunbreak, doesn't evade/displace you like most stunbreaks so you immediately take pressure, only give 1 stack of stab WHEN TRAITED (unless you're overloading earth, which doesn't even need the additional stack of stab) so you can just get cced again, which happens all the time in the current game where ccs gets spammed constantly, and locks that particular attunement on a long cd just for you to break a single stun. Even "Eye of the Storm" is a better stunbreak than overloads because it at least give you superspeed to kite/make u immune to soft ccs, and that skill is already a pretty bad stunbreak.

and i dont know why you're quoting some comment made long time ago before the aura and fire trait changes but it still doesn't matter, tempest is still in the same useless spot as meme spec that gets carried by their team.

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@LazySummer.2568 said:

@LazySummer.2568 said:I don't get all these posts about tempest not needing buffs. All tempest does is provide heals. Its defense & sustain for itself are awful and die super fast when focused, especially right after they've burned their focus earth 5. Not enough condi clenses against either scourges or condi mirages; not enough stunbreaks against holos/spellbreakers/thiefs/mirages that run dazes, not to mention all interrupts hard counter tempests.

If you've watched carefully in the mist challenger tourny where USA team B ran a meme staff tempest, you'll see how tempest was literally useless the whole time -- standing off node casting some cc aoes and 1k damage proc meme shower and only existed for the arcane rez trait, getting carried AND SUPPORTED by their fb and scourge.

Even scrapper supports and sustains better than tempest.

Fire has a trait line that removes condi on aura share... its practically impossible to condi kill anyone with a tempest running this build in the team fight. Fire/water build that is.

Combine that with a bunch of passive fire auras and you got yourself 25 perma might... also that will include passive condi removals and heals.

Add in some damage multiplyers, boost ferocity via air and next thing you know you got yourself a decent celestial build that hits quite hard, brings great utility support and superior movement for quick decaps if you run D/D, has enough tools, damage and sustain to be a side noder too.

ALOT of people forget that thier overloads ARE stunbreaks, we got 4 packed into our kit just from being a Tempest... You can also take the trait for stab on overloads, helps a lot for side noding on fire/air lightning rod build when fighting SB or Holo.

Nobody forgot overloads are stunbreaks. They are just the worst stunbreak in the whole game. You have to camp attunement and not use that overload just for the stunbreak, doesn't evade/displace you like most stunbreaks so you immediately take pressure, only give 1 stack of stab WHEN TRAITED (unless you're overloading earth, which doesn't even need the additional stack of stab) so you can just get cced again, which happens all the time in the current game where ccs gets spammed constantly, and locks that particular attunement on a long cd just for you to break a single stun. Even "Eye of the Storm" is a better stunbreak than overloads because it at least give you superspeed to kite/make u immune to soft ccs, and that skill is already a pretty bad stunbreak.

and i dont know why you're quoting some comment made long time ago before the aura and fire trait changes but it still doesn't matter, tempest is still in the same useless spot as meme spec that gets carried by their team.

You dont have to camp an attunement, just flow with the battle and know your enemy set ups that involve CC... Basic stuff to me and I thought for others too but guess not.

I assume people forget about stun break because they keep saying tempest has no stun breaks... pretty easy to come to that conclusion for anyone and shouldnt even need to be explained.

If you get carried when you play tempest, so be it....

If its so useless, why did Team USA rage at me for destroying thier ranger all game on side nodes? Why is it that im the one going 20/0 most games?Youre just saying that those people are worse than trash.

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@sephiroth.4217 said:

@LazySummer.2568 said:I don't get all these posts about tempest not needing buffs. All tempest does is provide heals. Its defense & sustain for itself are awful and die super fast when focused, especially right after they've burned their focus earth 5. Not enough condi clenses against either scourges or condi mirages; not enough stunbreaks against holos/spellbreakers/thiefs/mirages that run dazes, not to mention all interrupts hard counter tempests.

If you've watched carefully in the mist challenger tourny where USA team B ran a meme staff tempest, you'll see how tempest was literally useless the whole time -- standing off node casting some cc aoes and 1k damage proc meme shower and only existed for the arcane rez trait, getting carried AND SUPPORTED by their fb and scourge.

Even scrapper supports and sustains better than tempest.

Fire has a trait line that removes condi on aura share... its practically impossible to condi kill anyone with a tempest running this build in the team fight. Fire/water build that is.

Combine that with a bunch of passive fire auras and you got yourself 25 perma might... also that will include passive condi removals and heals.

Add in some damage multiplyers, boost ferocity via air and next thing you know you got yourself a decent celestial build that hits quite hard, brings great utility support and superior movement for quick decaps if you run D/D, has enough tools, damage and sustain to be a side noder too.

ALOT of people forget that thier overloads ARE stunbreaks, we got 4 packed into our kit just from being a Tempest... You can also take the trait for stab on overloads, helps a lot for side noding on fire/air lightning rod build when fighting SB or Holo.

Nobody forgot overloads are stunbreaks. They are just the worst stunbreak in the whole game. You have to camp attunement and not use that overload just for the stunbreak, doesn't evade/displace you like most stunbreaks so you immediately take pressure, only give 1 stack of stab WHEN TRAITED (unless you're overloading earth, which doesn't even need the additional stack of stab) so you can just get cced again, which happens all the time in the current game where ccs gets spammed constantly, and locks that particular attunement on a long cd just for you to break a single stun. Even "Eye of the Storm" is a better stunbreak than overloads because it at least give you superspeed to kite/make u immune to soft ccs, and that skill is already a pretty bad stunbreak.

and i dont know why you're quoting some comment made long time ago before the aura and fire trait changes but it still doesn't matter, tempest is still in the same useless spot as meme spec that gets carried by their team.

You dont have to camp an attunement, just flow with the battle and know your enemy set ups that involve CC... Basic stuff to me and I thought for others too but guess not.

I assume people forget about stun break because they keep saying tempest has no stun breaks... pretty easy to come to that conclusion for anyone and shouldnt even need to be explained.

If you get carried when you play tempest, so be it....

If its so useless, why did Team USA rage at me for destroying thier ranger all game on side nodes? Why is it that im the one going 20/0 most games?Youre just saying that those people are worse than trash.

ok, maybe you should consider joining tournaments and carry your team to first place as well as get rank1 every season as tempest prove yourself as some sort of god instead of telling people on the forums about it.

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@LazySummer.2568 said:

@LazySummer.2568 said:I don't get all these posts about tempest not needing buffs. All tempest does is provide heals. Its defense & sustain for itself are awful and die super fast when focused, especially right after they've burned their focus earth 5. Not enough condi clenses against either scourges or condi mirages; not enough stunbreaks against holos/spellbreakers/thiefs/mirages that run dazes, not to mention all interrupts hard counter tempests.

If you've watched carefully in the mist challenger tourny where USA team B ran a meme staff tempest, you'll see how tempest was literally useless the whole time -- standing off node casting some cc aoes and 1k damage proc meme shower and only existed for the arcane rez trait, getting carried AND SUPPORTED by their fb and scourge.

Even scrapper supports and sustains better than tempest.

Fire has a trait line that removes condi on aura share... its practically impossible to condi kill anyone with a tempest running this build in the team fight. Fire/water build that is.

Combine that with a bunch of passive fire auras and you got yourself 25 perma might... also that will include passive condi removals and heals.

Add in some damage multiplyers, boost ferocity via air and next thing you know you got yourself a decent celestial build that hits quite hard, brings great utility support and superior movement for quick decaps if you run D/D, has enough tools, damage and sustain to be a side noder too.

ALOT of people forget that thier overloads ARE stunbreaks, we got 4 packed into our kit just from being a Tempest... You can also take the trait for stab on overloads, helps a lot for side noding on fire/air lightning rod build when fighting SB or Holo.

Nobody forgot overloads are stunbreaks. They are just the worst stunbreak in the whole game. You have to camp attunement and not use that overload just for the stunbreak, doesn't evade/displace you like most stunbreaks so you immediately take pressure, only give 1 stack of stab WHEN TRAITED (unless you're overloading earth, which doesn't even need the additional stack of stab) so you can just get cced again, which happens all the time in the current game where ccs gets spammed constantly, and locks that particular attunement on a long cd just for you to break a single stun. Even "Eye of the Storm" is a better stunbreak than overloads because it at least give you superspeed to kite/make u immune to soft ccs, and that skill is already a pretty bad stunbreak.

and i dont know why you're quoting some comment made long time ago before the aura and fire trait changes but it still doesn't matter, tempest is still in the same useless spot as meme spec that gets carried by their team.

You dont have to camp an attunement, just flow with the battle and know your enemy set ups that involve CC... Basic stuff to me and I thought for others too but guess not.

I assume people forget about stun break because they keep saying tempest has no stun breaks... pretty easy to come to that conclusion for anyone and shouldnt even need to be explained.

If you get carried when you play tempest, so be it....

If its so useless, why did Team USA rage at me for destroying thier ranger all game on side nodes? Why is it that im the one going 20/0 most games?Youre just saying that those people are worse than trash.

ok, maybe you should consider joining tournaments and carry your team to first place as well as get rank1 every season as tempest prove yourself as some sort of god instead of telling people on the forums about it.

I want to do tournaments but they are for Americans and the Unemployed... and I get enough kicks out of beating top players and forum goers who claim the build is bad in 1v1, so lifes good on my end there.

If you want to insult the build I use thats fine, im just pointing out youre also insulting literally everyone who has ever died to a tempest or struggles to down one.

As far as im concerned too, not all of us bandwagon in order to be effective, some of us actually stuck with our classes through thick and thin and worked around the meta.Put some work and effort into it, something thats lost with recent gens.

Also do you run a ranger? Pretty sure ive beaten you too, if it wasnt you then it was another dude with "Xsummer" as a name

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