Scourge balance and shade spamming

[Kovu.7560]

@apharma.3741 said:

@Kovu.7560 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Com focusing has its own special place in hell with spawn campers and genocidal maniacs.

If this gamemode had unwritten rules of the things to and not to do, an entire server wouldn't exist.Com's got to run tankier stats and make sure there's a second FB (or some other healer like an ele or druid) in his party. =pOr abuse stealth antics so the gankers constantly lose target. Smoke fields aren't hard to come by.As it was noted earlier, it takes several rangers for it to become a threat, anyway.

~ Kovu

Not com focusing is about having a fight, that’s fun and gets to play out. If all you do is beeline 20 people onto one target unless those 20 people are so devoid of intellect a zombie can beat them at chess they will kill the 1 guy pretty easily. What this ends up doing is creating boring and uninteresting fights for both sides which leads to everyone ending up worse off in the long term.

You do realize there are (or should) also be 20 people helping to keep that driver up? Situational awareness is also a thing for the tag, don't push away from your blob if you're taking heavy single target pressure. Most of the time the fights that are "fun and get to play out" involve two tags trying to drop aoe damage on each other's tag -- because frequently if you drop the tag you win. But by all means, take 20 rangers into a small zerg fight and see how that goes for you. (Spoilers, it won't go well.) Use the resources available to you. Don't rely on unwritten gentleman's rules. And anyway, if this sort of thing (ranger pick) worked well enough, frequently enough to be worth running rangers over the traditional GWEN composition, you'd see it more often.

~ Kovu

[apharma.3741]

@Kovu.7560 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Kovu.7560 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Com focusing has its own special place in hell with spawn campers and genocidal maniacs.

If this gamemode had unwritten rules of the things to and not to do, an entire server wouldn't exist.Com's got to run tankier stats and make sure there's a second FB (or some other healer like an ele or druid) in his party. =pOr abuse stealth antics so the gankers constantly lose target. Smoke fields aren't hard to come by.As it was noted earlier, it takes several rangers for it to become a threat, anyway.

~ Kovu

Not com focusing is about having a fight, that’s fun and gets to play out. If all you do is beeline 20 people onto one target unless those 20 people are so devoid of intellect a zombie can beat them at chess they will kill the 1 guy pretty easily. What this ends up doing is creating boring and uninteresting fights for both sides which leads to everyone ending up worse off in the long term.

You do realize there are (or

should

) also be 20 people helping to keep that driver up? Situational awareness is also a thing for the tag, don't push away from your blob if you're taking heavy single target pressure. Most of the time the fights that are "fun and get to play out" involve two tags trying to drop aoe damage on each other's tag -- because frequently if you drop the tag you win. But by all means, take 20 rangers into a small zerg fight and see how that goes for you. (Spoilers, it won't go well.) Use the resources available to you. Don't rely on unwritten gentleman's rules. And anyway, if this sort of thing (ranger pick) worked well enough, frequently enough to be worth running rangers over the traditional GWEN composition, you'd see it more often.

~ Kovu

When people com focus they don’t do it with 20 rangers which is the typical hyperbole reaction you see on the forums. When people com focus they usually have 1-2 players with ranged unblockable corrupts (so 1-2 necros but 3 is good) or boon removal so the com will be boon naked, moa the com, nuke the come with the dps, which could very well be 2-3 soulbeasts or alternatively pull them completely out of position. It really only takes 5 people to com focus and regardless of what the other com does he will die if he so much as moves 300 range from his zerg.

You can even kill them with a few people around (because being the driver means you’re not usually in the middle unless doubling back) with a coordinated com focus party. You can say and make excuses about the 20 people in the coms Zerg but against an organised com focus there’s very little you can do except switch commander or switch account.

Here’s a video example, provided by QQ.

[Dralor.3701]

Pin sniping is a thing, if your server can’t adapt..

[Strider Pj.2193]

So, this is a war simulator game. We aren't using tactics from medieval times where it was 'gentlemanly' to allow the commanders to survive.

If some com is gonna dress up as a Charr in big shiny gear, well, he is as obvious a target as can be.

If you kill the head, the body will die. If guild groups want to run small and fight each other using the unspoken rule of not pin sniping, I am all for that. And if I see them out doing such and one is on my server, I'll leave them alone.

But if you've balled up over 25 people? Get your commader some meat shields, because if I have the chance to down them, then they will be focused.

[morrolan.9608]

@Korgov.7645 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:Resistance need's to changed from a buff to something else >_>

Resistance was a big mistake. Nigh permanent 100% immunity to conditions is unhealthy for a competitive game mode. It should receive the same treatment as Stability.

Maybe but that was itself in response to making condis so powerful and prevalent. Rather than dealing with the root cause they add counterplay which itself in time needs counterplay............. Its classic anet development by accretion rather than actually fixing issues, this development style is featured across the game and just results in unneeded complexity.

[Atticus.7194]

@Korgov.7645 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:Resistance need's to changed from a buff to something else >_>

Resistance was a big mistake. Nigh permanent 100% immunity to conditions is unhealthy for a competitive game mode. It should receive the same treatment as Stability.

It needs to exist in some form and there needs to be a lot of it otherwise we go right back to condi classes being abject dominance and any spec with enough damage and expertise signs a players death warrant given the amount of conditions many specs can continuously pump out.

[Korgov.7645]

@Atticus.7194 said:

@Korgov.7645 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:Resistance need's to changed from a buff to something else >_>

Resistance was a big mistake. Nigh permanent 100% immunity to conditions is unhealthy for a competitive game mode. It should receive the same treatment as Stability.

It needs to exist in some form and there needs to be a lot of it otherwise we go right back to condi classes being abject dominance and any spec with enough damage and expertise signs a players death warrant given the amount of conditions many specs can continuously pump out.

I am trying to think back to an pre-Resistance era when condition damage was the weapon of choice in large scale fights - drawing a blank here. Remind me, please.

[Mysteriax.6049]

I believe Scourge should only unlock the ability to place shades by activating Scourge Shroud (just like core Necro and Reaper). Buff Scourge Shroud if necessary to make it fully viable if you only had access to Shroud skills in Scourge Shroud.

[Aeolus.3615]

@Korgov.7645 said:

@Atticus.7194 said:

@Korgov.7645 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:Resistance need's to changed from a buff to something else >_>

Resistance was a big mistake. Nigh permanent 100% immunity to conditions is unhealthy for a competitive game mode. It should receive the same treatment as Stability.

It needs to exist in some form and there needs to be a lot of it otherwise we go right back to condi classes being abject dominance and any spec with enough damage and expertise signs a players death warrant given the amount of conditions many specs can continuously pump out.

I am trying to think back to an pre-Resistance era when condition damage was the weapon of choice in large scale fights - drawing a blank here. Remind me, please.

Maybe we all need some conditions to become hexes then:Make some hexes aply conditions when removed or when actor performs punishive skill from hex (Ex, give X condition or punishuve action if actor cast stance when he know he has a Hex that punishes stances)Make toughness reduce effect on some conditionsMake resistante work against hexes while no longer works on conditions.Give hex removal to a few skills arround all classes on non dps specs/builds and trait line.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

@Korgov.7645 said:

@Atticus.7194 said:

@Korgov.7645 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:Resistance need's to changed from a buff to something else >_>

Resistance was a big mistake. Nigh permanent 100% immunity to conditions is unhealthy for a competitive game mode. It should receive the same treatment as Stability.

It needs to exist in some form and there needs to be a lot of it otherwise we go right back to condi classes being abject dominance and any spec with enough damage and expertise signs a players death warrant given the amount of conditions many specs can continuously pump out.

I am trying to think back to an pre-Resistance era when condition damage was the weapon of choice in large scale fights - drawing a blank here. Remind me, please.

It was never the case, so don't worry about your memory. Well, at least not on this topic.

[reddie.5861]

@apharma.3741 said:

@Kovu.7560 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Kovu.7560 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Com focusing has its own special place in hell with spawn campers and genocidal maniacs.

If this gamemode had unwritten rules of the things to and not to do, an entire server wouldn't exist.Com's got to run tankier stats and make sure there's a second FB (or some other healer like an ele or druid) in his party. =pOr abuse stealth antics so the gankers constantly lose target. Smoke fields aren't hard to come by.As it was noted earlier, it takes several rangers for it to become a threat, anyway.

~ Kovu

Not com focusing is about having a fight, that’s fun and gets to play out. If all you do is beeline 20 people onto one target unless those 20 people are so devoid of intellect a zombie can beat them at chess they will kill the 1 guy pretty easily. What this ends up doing is creating boring and uninteresting fights for both sides which leads to everyone ending up worse off in the long term.

You do realize there are (or

should

) also be 20 people helping to keep that driver up? Situational awareness is also a thing for the tag, don't push away from your blob if you're taking heavy single target pressure. Most of the time the fights that are "fun and get to play out" involve two tags trying to drop aoe damage on each other's tag -- because frequently if you drop the tag you win. But by all means, take 20 rangers into a small zerg fight and see how that goes for you. (Spoilers, it won't go well.) Use the resources available to you. Don't rely on unwritten gentleman's rules. And anyway, if this sort of thing (ranger pick) worked well enough, frequently enough to be worth running rangers over the traditional GWEN composition, you'd see it more often.

~ Kovu

When people com focus they don’t do it with 20 rangers which is the typical hyperbole reaction you see on the forums. When people com focus they usually have 1-2 players with ranged unblockable corrupts (so 1-2 necros but 3 is good) or boon removal so the com will be boon naked, moa the com, nuke the come with the dps, which could very well be 2-3 soulbeasts or alternatively pull them completely out of position. It really only takes 5 people to com focus and regardless of what the other com does he will die if he so much as moves 300 range from his zerg.

You can even kill them with a few people around (because being the driver means you’re not usually in the middle unless doubling back) with a coordinated com focus party. You can say and make excuses about the 20 people in the coms Zerg but against an organised com focus there’s very little you can do except switch commander or switch account.

Here’s a video example, provided by QQ.

glad my server has always been flaming people who commander focus, we wanted fights not ppt.so its pointless to kill commander.