Can we just enable 20 man raids for wing 1-4?

[Ryudnard.2587]

No rewards. It's more or less the same as accomplishing it as an easy mode.

[Raizel.8175]

Seriously?

[TexZero.7910]

Ah yes, lets do this.

20 men/women/cats/helicopters/rats enter, no one leaves.

[Takoyakii.2146]

Finally. People will be able to pass wing 1 with 2k dps build :v .

Who am I kidding. They're gonna wipe at VG green anyway.

Why bother.

[Nimon.7840]

Just make bosses scale and then it would be pretty nice

[Feanor.2358]

@Ryudnard.2587 said:No rewards. It's more or less the same as accomplishing it as an easy mode.

Actually. This might be fun. I like it. No changes to the existing mechanics, just zerg them down. I like this. :)

[Teratus.2859]

I've suggested something similar in the past..Basically a Story mode.. raids balanced for a single player or small party but give you absolutely no rewards.

It'll give these players the ability to experience the story of the raid and also the ability to learn every bosses mechanics in an easier environment which they can then use to beat the boss for real in an actual raid group.

There are literally no cons to such an idea.. if anything it'll increase the population of players who want to raid without them being turned off the idea beacuase they don't know what to do and they don't want to get harassed by elitist players who want nothing to do with the clueless noobs who don't understand the content.

[sigur.9453]

@"Teratus.2859" said:I've suggested something similar in the past..Basically a Story mode.. raids balanced for a single player or small party but give you absolutely no rewards.

It'll give these players the ability to experience the story of the raid and also the ability to learn every bosses mechanics in an easier environment which they can then use to beat the boss for real in an actual raid group.

There are literally no cons to such an idea.. if anything it'll increase the population of players who want to raid without them being turned off the idea beacuase they don't know what to do and they don't want to get harassed by elitist players who want nothing to do with the clueless noobs who don't understand the content.

cons: development timewith op suggestions, it would be "far more easier". it´s not that bad of an idea actually.but there are already 3 threads going on in this matter, you should propably post it there.

[Raizel.8175]

How is increasing the number of people participating in raids easy-mode? You have more liabilities and thus, the risk to fuck up is even higher than with 10-man-squads. Imagine the fun at Sabetha when people fuck up throwing bombs, imagine the fun at bosses like Slothy or Matthias with fancy poison-fields all over the place...

I always though that the dungeon-design of Blade & Soul was the pinnacle of what MMORPGs can achieve: You had normal-mode-dungeons for six people and hard-mode-version for four people with increased difficulty. With less people, you have less potential liabilities, thus the content should be harder.

[Feanor.2358]

@Teratus.2859 said:I've suggested something similar in the past..Basically a Story mode.. raids balanced for a single player or small party but give you absolutely no rewards.

It'll give these players the ability to experience the story of the raid and also the ability to learn every bosses mechanics in an easier environment which they can then use to beat the boss for real in an actual raid group.

There are literally no cons to such an idea.. if anything it'll increase the population of players who want to raid without them being turned off the idea beacuase they don't know what to do and they don't want to get harassed by elitist players who want nothing to do with the clueless noobs who don't understand the content.

This is not the same. Rebalancing is actual work. Allowing more players in should be much easier.

@"Raizel.8175" said:How is increasing the number of people participating in raids easy-mode? You have more liabilities and thus, the risk to kitten up is even higher than with 10-man-squads. Imagine the fun at Sabetha when people kitten up throwing bombs, imagine the fun at bosses like Slothy or Matthias with fancy poison-fields all over the place...

I always though that the dungeon-design of Blade & Soul was the pinnacle of what MMORPGs can achieve: You had normal-mode-dungeons for six people and hard-mode-version for four people with increased difficulty. With less people, you have less potential liabilities, thus the content should be harder.

The amount of poisons dropped on bad places will be the same regardless if you have 10 inexperienced players, 20 or 50. Since the attack happens on a fixed time interval. More players can mitigate this though. More healing, more "Search and rescue", etc. In general, having more players means having more room for mistakes. That's why raids are 10-man, even though we see a lot of bosses killed with half that number from very experienced players. In the same way, raising the number to 20 will increase said room even further. Yes, it will also increase the chances someone screws a particular mechanic (Deimos' blacks comes to mind first), but overall it will be much, much easier.

[Warscythes.9307]

Not a bad idea, could actually be fun. Hopefully takes 0 development time and could let players see mechanics a bit as long as there's no reward.

Maybe as a weekend event of sort though instead of something that's always open.

[maddoctor.2738]

20-man Raids could work for some bosses, but how would it work on Deimos or Matthias? On Deimos one person can destroy the entire Raid by stepping on the black goo, meaning more people = more chances to fail. Matthias (and probably Slothasor and Keep Construct too) create circles under every player and then they need to get away of each other. Sometimes it's hard getting away of others with 10 people, imagine 20. Sabetha can be harder too, if the group doesn't have one person assigned to throw the bombs.

Vale Guardian, Gorseval, Sabetha, Bandit Trio, Escort, Xera, Cairn, Overseer, Samarog could be made easier with 20 people. Sabetha and Samarog would be a bit more tricky (based on who is targeted by the mechanics) but it could certainly work. Slothasor, Matthias, Keep Construct and Deimos would be an absolute nightmare with more people and actually much harder than the current version.

[Voltekka.2375]

Why not 50?

[Linken.6345]

@maddoctor.2738 said:20-man Raids could work for some bosses, but how would it work on Deimos or Matthias? On Deimos one person can destroy the entire Raid by stepping on the black goo, meaning more people = more chances to fail. Matthias (and probably Slothasor and Keep Construct too) create circles under every player and then they need to get away of each other. Sometimes it's hard getting away of others with 10 people, imagine 20. Sabetha can be harder too, if the group doesn't have one person assigned to throw the bombs.

Vale Guardian, Gorseval, Sabetha, Bandit Trio, Escort, Xera, Cairn, Overseer, Samarog could be made easier with 20 people. Sabetha and Samarog would be a bit more tricky (based on who is targeted by the mechanics) but it could certainly work. Slothasor, Matthias, Keep Construct and Deimos would be an absolute nightmare with more people and actually much harder than the current version.

could have so circles max out on 10 so only 10 have to move.

[Nash.2681]

I already see the joy... 20 ppl approaching a raid like it was a world boss ("hey, there's plenty of others to do the hard work, let's just press 1-1-1-1-1-1-1") and wondering why they still wipe...Well, better go find some like minded people... oh, wait, it takes even longer to find 19 others than 9 others, who would have guessed so?

Seriously, I'm quite neutral about adding somekind of "easy mode" to raids, but I don't think increasing the number of players is the way to go. And as soon as boss scaling or adjusting mechanics is involved, I expect it to be as much work for the devs as just adding an "easy mode" anyway.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

@Ryudnard.2587 said:No rewards. It's more or less the same as accomplishing it as an easy mode.

No rewards that would be an empty feuture and why just 20 and not a full 50 ppl

[Tyson.5160]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Ryudnard.2587 said:No rewards. It's more or less the same as accomplishing it as an easy mode.

Actually. This might be fun. I like it. No changes to the existing mechanics, just zerg them down. I like this. :)

This feels very reminiscent to 25 man wow Raids, where half the raid is dead and you can still kill the boss, this has certainly peak my interest and would allow people to see the “story”. ?

[Tyson.5160]

@maddoctor.2738 said:20-man Raids could work for some bosses, but how would it work on Deimos or Matthias? On Deimos one person can destroy the entire Raid by stepping on the black goo, meaning more people = more chances to fail. Matthias (and probably Slothasor and Keep Construct too) create circles under every player and then they need to get away of each other. Sometimes it's hard getting away of others with 10 people, imagine 20. Sabetha can be harder too, if the group doesn't have one person assigned to throw the bombs.

Vale Guardian, Gorseval, Sabetha, Bandit Trio, Escort, Xera, Cairn, Overseer, Samarog could be made easier with 20 people. Sabetha and Samarog would be a bit more tricky (based on who is targeted by the mechanics) but it could certainly work. Slothasor, Matthias, Keep Construct and Deimos would be an absolute nightmare with more people and actually much harder than the current version.

You would probably still need some people who knew what they were doing for Deimos, but the DPS and the phasing would be incredibly fast.

[LadyKitty.6120]

It'd actually be quite interesting, with slightly increased/different rewards, scaled up boss HP and mechanics adjusted for 20.For ex.

1. VG would have 2 green circles and 50% more blues at once. +100-150% HP. Each circle would do 50% of person's HP if not enough people on them. CC phase would have +200% bigger breakbar.
2. Gors would have 8 spirits and 200% more HP, as well as 150% bigger breakbar.
3. Sab would have 50% faster cannon interval and twice as much flame turrets during Karde, 150% more breakbar on Knuckles and 4 timed bombs starting from 25%.
4. Sloth would have +150% higher HP pool, 200% bigger breakbar and doubled poisons with 33% smaller area.
5. Bandit Trio would have 3x as much mobs and saboteurs coming in increasing waves (1-2-3-4-5). Perhaps prisoners split to multiple cages to make guarding more interesting. Mortars spawning in different places at 30s interval.
6. Matthias would have +150% HP pool, 33% smaller bomb rings (to compensate for 20 bombs during abomination, faster cleaning wells and twice as many corrupts, as well as doubled breakbar on sacrifice. The shooting bubble would last 2x longer and those projectiles would be small, harder hitting AoE.
7. KC would have 10 rifts and 5x HP with 200% sturdier ghosts. The orb phase would have 33% more orbs and move 33% faster.
8. Xera would port 5 players to platforms every 10%, +200% more HP and 150% more adds.
9. Cairn would have player-requirement on every green, 8 agony circles, +300% HP and port circles would spawn in a larger area (like, circles could spawn up to 2/3 arena's radius away from boss. There would be more small green circles and missing greens would insta-down.
10. MO's soldiers would gain +300% more HP and MO would have VG-like cleave and MO itself would have +200% more HP.
11. Sam would require 4 smaller bubbles to go to big bubble (which has increased radius), spears would spawn at faster interval, CC would be increased to 10k breakbar damage and Rigom would gain 1000 breakbar with 15s cooldown before it could be pushed/pulled away. And maybe some 3rd NPC to mess people up. Sam itself would have +200% more HP. Sam's rampage would also target the player with highest heal output at the time.
12. Deimos would have +150% HP, 3x as much adds and 3x as much tears.

Those would keep the bosses doable while making them more challenging by forcing squads to organize better. They would also require people to actually do more mechanics since for ex. KC's ghosts would be needed to be kept away from each other (split), no-greens VG would automatically wipe the squad, Gorseval's increased HP would force most people to do the updrafts, KC would require doing the orbs properly, some people would need to kite halfway across the arena with their agonys at Cairn and do the greens. Sam would require people to invest in CC and for fixated to keep Rigom away, as well as people to focus on clearing spears. Deimos would require people to really get those tears and have people assigned to immobilize adds.

[Tyson.5160]

@LadyKitty.6120 said:It'd actually be quite interesting, with slightly increased/different rewards, scaled up boss HP and mechanics adjusted for 20.For ex.

1. VG would have 2 green circles and 50% more blues at once. +100-150% HP. Each circle would do 50% of person's HP if not enough people on them. CC phase would have +200% bigger breakbar.
2. Gors would have 8 spirits and 150% more HP, as well as 150% bigger breakbar.
3. Sab would have 50% faster cannon interval and twice as much flame turrets during Karde, 150% more breakbar on Knuckles and 4 timed bombs starting from 25%.
4. Sloth would have +150% higher HP pool, 200% bigger breakbar and doubled poisons with 33% smaller area.
5. Bandit Trio would have 3x as much mobs and saboteurs coming in increasing waves (1-2-3-4-5). Perhaps prisoners split to multiple cages to make guarding more interesting. Mortars spawning in different places at 30s interval.
6. Matthias would have +150% HP pool, 33% smaller bomb rings (to compensate for 20 bombs during abomination, faster cleaning wells and twice as many corrupts, as well as doubled breakbar on sacrifice. The shooting bubble would last 2x longer and those projectiles would be small, harder hitting AoE.
7. KC would have 10 rifts and 5x HP with 150% sturdier ghosts. The orb phase would have 33% more orbs and move 33% faster.
8. Xera would port 5 players to platforms every 10%, +200% more HP and 150% more adds.
9. Cairn would have player-requirement on every green, 8 agony circles, +300% HP and port circles would spawn in a larger area (like, circles could spawn up to 2/3 arena's radius away from boss.
10. MO's soldiers would gain +300% more HP and MO would have VG-like cleave and MO itself would have +200% more HP.
11. Sam would require 4 smaller bubbles to go to big bubble (which has increased radius), spears would spawn at faster interval, CC would be increased to 10k breakbar damage and Rigom would gain 1000 breakbar with 15s cooldown before it could be pushed/pulled away. And maybe some 3rd NPC to mess people up. Sam itself would have +200% more HP.
12. Deimos would have +150% HP, 3x as much adds and 3x as much tears.

Those would keep the bosses doable while making them more challenging by forcing squads to organize better.

Or keep the mechanics the same and have 20 join an all out blood bath

[thrag.9740]

20 players would require an overhaul to the way squads work I believe, as we currently have the option for 10 players and 50 players. If your going to give no rewards, seems like you might as well just let it be a 50 man raid. I will warn though, that 50 players doesn't necessarily make the raids easier. As pointed out with for example, sabetha bomb throws. Then again, with 50 players, you could just 50 man rush and kill sabetha before cannons kill the platform. Although no guarantee 50 random pugs will pull this off, 20 normal raiders with a normal comp could do it easily I believe.

I think the option to bring a lot of players in (with the stipulation of no rewards) would be good way to let players experience the story without having to devote too many development hours to it. Of course, whether you go with 20 or 50 players, getting that many players together just to experience the story may be prohibitively difficult. Then gain, some serious raiders may join it for the memes.

[nia.4725]

It would be a complete mess. If the visual clutter of a 10man squad is already horrible, imagine 20 players spamming colored areas. No one could ever see boss areas. Soulless Horror would be undoable. Try to imagine 20 people trying to fit in the tiny free space that a big wall leaves. The idea sounds funny but I think the reality would be a nightmare xD, and filling a squad would be even more difficult : v

[Talindra.4958]

Will be cool April fool event lol pls do thatAnd for full squad too 50 men

[Ze Dos Cavalos.6132]

That would be the easy mode some people are asking for, but the easy mode people wouldn't accept it coz you said no rewards!

[Rodrick.1942]

Im here to play gw2 , not wow